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00:00 - 19:0019:00 - 00:00

00:32
have you guys tried letsencrypt? is it as awesome and easy as their marketing materials leave me to believe?
00:49
sounds like webdev problems
just got letsencrypt on my staging server for my work project so finally it has https support
@metatoaster wondering about your handle... do you toast toasters? I went to toastmasters a few times, but I don't have the patience for it. Some of those people are crazy.
Dan
Dan
cbg
@JoranBeasley I hope so, I'm just waiting for a project to use it with
01:05
@AaronHall You know what they say. i.ytimg.com/vi/hv7jvyslRek/hqdefault.jpg
I stopped going after the talk on how your blood-type relates to your personality.
I'd always assumed that Toastmasters was just a group of people who couldn't drink without dedicating it to something first. :I
ah, yeah, it's a club about public speaking for its own sake
So not even drinkies.
Bullshit artistry. >:I
Yeah, they'll count your "um"s too
Dan
Dan
01:10
anyone done scraping with requests.get before?
I've summarized a generic set of rules pretty well, but you should read the full rules at the link at the top right... "Rules: 1) Be nice 2) Don't link to recently asked questions, ask to ask/preamble or if someone knows something, or @ping someone you don't know 3) indent your code 4) Have fun & be respectable 5) Read the chat faq: chat.stackoverflow.com/faq"
My public speaking is perfect, just as long as it's done from a massive loudspeaker mounted on a zeppelin.
Yeah, my public addresses go really well with that setup.
Originally I was going to go with the weird, pervasive network of tannoy towers and hidden speakers, but I decided I liked it better when people stopped and looked up, instead of around themselves, in plants, under ashtrays, whatehaveyou, when I spoke. <3
Fighter jets and fireworks add a little oomph.
01:15
It's a lot harder to steal the zeppelin, too.
Possible. ¬_¬
But harder.
Fighter jets are for people who live fast.
Zaphod could do it.
Zaphod could also get elected.
Turns out, I'm not very good at that.
Where there's a will, though, there's a way! :D
I know. :y
Probably better than the movie. Which was a groaner.
The production values aren't that bad, considering
Ah, we're all watching it now, aren't we... :D
Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so.
01:33
"Fanatics" refresh SO at least once per day for one hundred consecutive days.
"True Fanatics" make a bot that does it for them.
"I don't have time for this!
"There are questions to answer! I have a girlfriend and bills to pay!
"..Just kidding; there are only bills."
@AaronHall haha, no, just an alias I used since way back when I toast other players in games and when I was fascinated with the meta prefix
I know there was a toastmasters group with nearly this exact handle, but I am not affiliated with them
I'd like to say a few words about my toaster: it was a very inexpensive model, but it has created so much value for my household, what with all the toast and bagels it has toasted for me, not to mention the flatbread for my hummus, when I get a hankering for middle Eastern faire.
To the toaster! raises glass
on the other hand I have a cheap looking toaster that came with the place I bought that I almost never use (though my flatmate does, he likes it though).
02:01
A metatoaster does not interact with toast directly. What it does do is tell you a lot of interesting and potentially useful details about bread by looking at crumbs.
02:33
Hello
03:00
Hello Andrew.
 
3 hours later…
user5547153
05:40
Hi all,Can I ask doubts here ?
user5547153
I have a doubt how can we call index of matrix in for loop ?
2d matrix?
06:21
CBG all.
07:04
@PM2Ring I am safe mate thanks for your concern :)
@thefourtheye happy to hear you are safe :)
Hm. Is it worth it to use deque instead of a list just so that I can use deque.appendleft(element) instead of list.insert(0,element)..?
..Looks like deque is a lot faster if it's for stuff that comes up a lot, so I suppose I'll go with that.
 
2 hours later…
09:25
Cabbage!
09:44
Cbg
10:12
CBG
cbg
Hey up.
10:38
cabbage
11:16
hi everyone
I have a Django question... namely: what am I doing wrong in line 34? gist.github.com/Flobin/501394d5906fb21485bb#file-views-py
@Flobin how are we supposed to answer that? What's your error? What do you get? What do you expect?
We're not mind readers.
@Ffisegydd, sorry, my test output is above
so for the full traceback you can scroll up
And this is what I get when running the django server: gist.github.com/Flobin/501394d5906fb21485bb#file-traceback
How do you know the issue is at line 34?
because it ran fine before I added it :P
what I'm trying to do is implement the reddit sorting algorithm, basically
and so I figured I'd try something simple as a first step, trying to figure out how to use annotate() on a queryset
try using different name for annotation var, not the score
looks like it clashes with property "score"
11:29
@aleosd, yep, I think you're right!
thank you very much
when you're using annotate(), you don't have to use .all() right?
but it seems like it no longer returns all of the link objects, because another test is failing now
add context checks to your test
first_page.context['object_list'] or something like this
and check, how many pages returned on request
11:45
aha
hmm I get KeyError: 'object_list'
ahh, it was just a typo, haha
12:50
CBG all.
Hey up all
13:13
Cbg
@PeterVaro can't take a look at your #6 yet, I'm still trying to solve it. It's been running for ~2 minutes and is 10% done -_-
Times like these I wish I had a better CPU
@Kevin I hope you did not brute-forced it by generating a grid of 1M element :)
I did on my first attempt, but now I am using an approach that is only O(length_of_instructions) memory
(btw this 7th puzzle is very exciting! I'm almost finished, but it is way more complicated than the previous ones)
@Kevin cool :)
Maybe using Point here is introducing more overhead than is justifiable... I'm not about to start over at the 50% point though.
Hmm, I bet I could do something clever with a quadtree...
13:30
Oh-oh, that looks rather tempting...
80%... [waiting_skeleton.png]
wow.. that takes a lot of time.. my version ran ~2s (maybe 5s?) 14.7s
I'm definitely going to try again without my geometry module.
It's built for style not speed B-)
corrected my measured value (just run it again)
(but this value now is for both A and B parts of the puzzle)
It's done. Phew, part 2 doesn't increase the complexity.
13:36
@Kevin {beautiful, fast, small} => pick only one :)
Trying part 1 again with just tuples of ints... It's about 5 times as fast. Still a far cry from 14.7s.
my part 1 is only 7.4s :)
Oh, but the answer isn't the same as before so I guess it doesn't matter how fast it is.
Rephrase: Trying part 1 again using tuples of ints, I got a different answer from when I did it with Point objects. Since the answer isn't correct, it's unfair to compare the speed of the two approaches.
13:42
ahh :)
13:57
AssertionError: expected 550 to equal 564. Uh.
Oh, l,r,t,b = bbox should be l,t,r,b. Whoops.
14:09
Clever - I was just going to get the input direct for the URL, but you have to be logged in as input is different for each user. I like. Anyway - lunchtime over, I've only done a couple.
Done. here is my rat's nest of a program. I think the run time suffered a lot because I was so stringent on having a low memory footprint.
Iterating through all points on the grid, and then iterating through all instructions to see if the point fits within the instruction's range, means that I don't have to keep track of more than one light at a time, but I end up spending a lot of time discarding instructions that don't apply to the point in question.
Peter's code runs on my computer in 24.40 seconds, meaning his computer is 65% faster than mine. Even giving me a handicap to account for hardware differences, I still lose.
<rant> I really hate the word "telecommuting". You're working from home. Just call it that. It's okay. </rant> Morning, all!
But if I say I'm working from the van down by the river, my virtual coworkers will look down on me :-(
But then it sounds like you're on a stakeout
morning everyone
14:21
I could go for steak.
user559633
I don't understand why this question is getting such bad/non-answers stackoverflow.com/questions/34133095/…
user559633
Seems like a "use multiprocessing or chunk your work into tasks that can be done in parallel. close"
user559633
@MorganThrapp What if I'm not at home when I'm working?
user559633
cbg
14:33
@tristan I still hate telecommuting.
user559633
@MorganThrapp The term or the act?
augh Advent of Code #7 tricked me into assuming that values would always be defined before being used
Okay I have a networking question... how do you deal with the fact that a socket could be disconnected while running a method?
@PeterVaro I did…
@Kevin Same. But I’m having problems with it. Can’t really solve it.
14:43
Lazy solution: whenever it crashes with a KeyError, reinsert the line to the back of the instructions queue.
I just used a defaultdict…
Ohh, I think I just understood the problem…
I don't think lazy solution works on part 2.
@Kevin have you looked at my solutions?
(both are lazy)
For 7?
7 is almost there!
14:48
Kevin and I are talking about 7
ahh..
I used a DAG to solve the problem there
@PeterVaro For six? Yeah. I liked your use of locals() :-)
@Kevin :P
Yeah DAG is the non-lazy way to do it but I can't be bothered when O(N^2) is good enough
I’m thinking of using substitutions and eval…
14:50
@Kevin about that: I started to work on a PEP for dict unpacking (to make that locals().update(...) nonsense explicit.. but after I've wrote 16 paragraphs yesterday, I realized, I don't care that much..
maybe at some point I will get back to this problem, I don't know..
user559633
@corvid that's life. just hope your method didn't too much work or store it for when the client re-connects
@davidism: I'm glad that this flask PR is invalid. The guy didn't even bother with PEP8 in his changes even after I mentioned it in his previous PR... ;/
@tristan The term.
5 part 2 is throwing me. I suspect it wants me to use regex, but I really don't care enough to write regex.
@Morgan your apathy is understandable - perfectly legit reason :p
15:06
Well, as I regularly teleport to work, I'm going to continue using the term telecommuting.
@JRichardSnape Now that I would have no issue with. Teleporting is cool enough where it offsets how much I dislike the term telecommuting.
@Kevin Do you have a solution yet?
This is the 7th day of code?
@ThiefMaster "I don't know how to set this up, but I'm going to hard code stuff in the tests so that they pass for me" did it for me
yeah
15:13
@poke Yes. It turns out, my lazy solution does work on part 2, although I had to do some ugly find-replace on the input data.
Eh, too spoilery to write in here.
Here is my solution.
It's a little cheaty because I'm assuming too much when I expect b to have a simple integer literal assignment. If my input data had X and Y -> b, for example, it would not work.
Oh wow, now i see why 7 is such a pain. :/
But it's less cheaty than just manually overwriting the input data by hand, so I'm satisfied.
@Kevin Yeah, I'm sure I could figure it out. I'm just not sure I care enough today. :P Maybe tomorrow.
One of these days I'm going to discover that my spoiler script doesn't work when the hidden text has a tilde in it or something, and I'll inadvertently ruin something for someone.
Oh, surprisingly robust.
How could you! Now you've ruined the perl solution I was working on.
15:23
:-P
Oooh I would have thought that'd break it.
Does python have something like C's enum? Like enum IDontWantToWriteALotOfCodeForThis = {SUN, MON, TUE, WED, THU, FRI, SAT};?
Wrong thing.
I'm lazy and just do SUN = 0; MON = 1; TUE = 2; ...
15:25
@Morgan You never know. Maybe that's what I was thinking.
Although it becomes more work than importing enum if I ever need to write an iter_days_of_week function
@Kevin I'm trying to kick the lazy up a notch.
@QuestionC I linked to enumerate, because I'm good at reading.
@QuestionC How about globals().update(dict(zip("SUN MON TUES WED THU FRI SAT".split(), range(7)))), no that's dumb.
I think I'm just gonna use the strings 'SUN', 'MON', &ct actually as my enum 'values'. Seems more pythony?
15:28
@QuestionC have you checked the link I provided?
there is a perfectly valid solution for enums, already implemented in 3.4+
@Kevin Soooo… it turns out that if you order the wires by the signal target, and leave out a, then you can execute them in order…
I have no problem using string literals as "constants" as long as I'm sure I won't typo one in a critical area.
"Whoops, this accounting software only pays out salaries on THORSday"
@PeterVaro I did! It's what I was looking for but as I was reading it I kind of came around to thinking I could just use strings.
@poke I thought about using a partial ordering to get the input arranged properly, but it would have required me to write more regex.
If it's good enough for encode=, it's good enough for me.
15:30
@QuestionC well, Python's enums are more like C++'s enums, they are typesafe and namespaced
if you are designing a public API, I would definitely use them
Nah. This is the 7th day of code.
(if this is something for an internal API, then do whatever is easier for you)
@poke they missed a trick by leaving it so nothing "higher" fed into a "lower" node... or maybe it was deliberate
My code contains the line op = ops[op]. I think I may be a bad person.
Wow, this makes part two so simple…
15:32
That is indeed the mark of a terrible human being, @kevin
I knew it!!!
I just assumed I needed an enum there because learning C coding from decades ago got into the reptilian part of my brain, and that's my first tactic in general.
@Kevin @JRichardSnape My solution
@JRichardSnape The simple example doesn't have out-of-order lines, but the actual input does.
Nvm, I can't compete with that level of reassignment bad.
15:34
See my previous message an hour ago along the lines of "augh Advent of code #7 tricked me"
I'm just glad they don't have any wires that feed into themselves. Who wants to implement flip-flops?
DSM
DSM
Morning cabbage.
I suppose I should use procrastination time today to catch up on the Advent questions. :-)
@Kevin Right? I don't even have a 3d printer.
:-)
Prediction: a future question will have wires that feed into themselves.
@Kevin Then Peter will beat us all.
:-D
15:38
"The logic gates also have some poorly documented behavior you must implement. See this 20 year old telephony RFC for details..."
Don't forget to model the electromagnetic fields of each gate, in case the fluctuations happen to interact in such a way that a bit flips elsewhere in the circuit.
(this is an actual thing but I can't remember its name)
Morning @DSM
Found it:
Row hammer (also written as rowhammer) is an unintended side effect in dynamic random-access memory (DRAM) that causes memory cells to leak their charges and interact electrically between themselves, possibly altering the contents of nearby memory rows that were not addressed in the original memory access. This circumvention of the isolation between DRAM memory cells results from the high cell density in modern DRAM, and can be triggered by specially crafted memory access patterns that rapidly activate the same memory rows numerous times. The row hammer effect has been used in some privileg...
Hopefully we see Tommy again, and need to output in the form of gate connection logic.
So you need to implement ECC-RAM.
15:45
I'll be sending a bill to Santa for this top-notch tech support. I'll accept payment in Playstation 4s.
Man, just the other day I was thinking about those crappy handheld gaming bricks they had pre-gameboy.
Those things were the bomb when I was unspoiled and innocent.
How many millions of polygons can they render?
DSM
DSM
Three days down. Suppose I should do the work I'm paid for. :-)
16:15
cbg all
Book chat. I started and completed Ready Player One in the past weekend. I'll give it high marks for being engaging enough that I could get through the whole thing in two days. But is being easy to read always a good thing?
i loved that book, finished it in a day and a half as well
I can imagine some hypothetical book that is dense with enough interesting ideas that my maximum reading speed drops to, say, 30 pages/day.
We now have a Quorum for that books recommendation. It's on the list.
@Kevin House of Leaves? (Kind of)?
@Kevin whatever you do, don't read his next book, Armada. It was really bad.
16:18
Ok :-)
@QuestionC HoL feels more like a single large interesting idea.
Maybe Godel Escher Bach, which has a rather looser focus.
@QuestionC I've always meant to read that.
I remember reading some Drizzt book, and thinking it was a little 'too' easy to read.
Like the author would spend 5 pages describing a combat sequence, and I'd read it and it would be fun and all, but at the end of it I was like "This dude just spun in a circle with his sword out and that took a whole page."
Oh man, I haven't read the Drizzt books in ages.
@MorganThrapp One of my favorite books. It got me feeling about literature in a way that I haven't since college. It's dense though.
@QuestionC I can do dense. I made it through the whole Dune series.
16:22
Owch.
And I'm making it through A Song of Ice and Fire.
Just read Dune and then leave it at that.
A couple times during Ready Player One, my brain did that thing where it loses focus but your eyes keep moving down the lines. But whenever I regained focus, I found I didn't actually need to reread those sections, as I had somehow retained their information anyway.
@Ffisegydd Yeah, the other 5 are... Certainly something.
More evidence for a lack of density. I didn't miss any important information because there wasn't much to begin with.
16:22
I only read the first Dune, but I didn't think of that as dense. Pretty much any adventure novel feels pretty light.
I wasn't allowed to use the computer for more than an hour a day as a child, so I just read everything I could get my hands on.
@QuestionC The first one isn't dense. The next 5 are dense political treaties.
Next up on my list is Mistborn followed by Catcher in the Rye or maybe the other way around.
Gotta throw some non-scifi/fantasy in there so the librarian doesn't think I'm a pleb.
i just bought catcher in the rye to read and my friend judged me for reading it "5 years too late"
@Kevin +9000 for Mistborn.
("That's a dumb reason to read realistic fiction", you say. Ok, I'm just using that as an excuse. I want to read classics but I don't have the proper motivation to do so unless I fabricate some peer pressure)
16:27
I really want to read On The Road at some point.
@RNar Maybe he misspoke and meant "50 years too late".
@Kevin If we're throwing around suggestions, maybe Romance of the Three Kingdoms? It's totally a fantasy adventure, but it's a classic too.
And he rounded down. Why bother reading anything but a first edition, with the new book smell intact?
naw it was more because its more a "coming of age" book so he expected everyone to read it in high school
Or Children of Odin, more or less same reasons
16:30
Oh. Not a problem for me since I'm in a perpetual state of extended adolescence.
My high school's typical adolescent reading was some Ayn Rand book because we all wanted that sweet sweet scholarship money.
In retrospect, maybe that teacher was pushing an agenda with that poster on the wall advertising it.
thats pretty much what I said
@QuestionC I'll see if it's in the system.
I need a new book to read but I'm currently in one of my reading torpors where I cannot summon the energy to jump into a new world.
if you want to rethink your life and be incredibly sad for awhile, read A Little Life by Hanya Yanagihara
16:33
Oh, I also need to read Catcher so I can get a better understanding of the motivations of the antagonist in Ghost in the Shell.
@Ffisegydd I know that feeling. I hope I can work through my "on reserve" list before I hit my periodic nadir.
I'm thinking Christmas (being at my folks with nothing but my MB Air) will draw me out of it.
Any nicer or more efficient alternatives to cls(**{cls.attribute: x})?
How about cls(attribute=x)
I think I am misinterpreting this question.
@Kevin Hmm, yeah. Thanks Kevin
16:49
Can you access some kind of internal ascii table within python? That is: 26 to something like 'substitution'
I don't yet see how 26 maps to "substitution". Kindly provide more examples.
You can get the character using chr but I don't know if there's a way to get a "formal name".
I know you can get the names of Unicode characters, but I'm uncertain whether they have any descriptions for ascii.
>>> unicodedata.name(chr(26))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
ValueError: no such name
Guess not.
That's really strange. I thought the ASCII table was a subset of unicode.
All the printable characters have names though, except for 9 10 13 11 12.
16:55
And even if it isn't, it seems like one of those "no duh" kind of additions.
Interesting that string.printable isn't sorted.
Umm... the C0 block doesn't appear in the lookup... the first name that works is 32 (space)
@Kevin Printing the key values of their mapping dictionary I'm sure.
That's odd. It's sorted to me. Just sorted by something more than ASCII ordinal.
on my machine it goes, digits lowercase uppercase symbols whitespace. Which is sort of logical if you're sorting by frequency of use
You could argue that digits ought to go after letters in that case but it's theoretically convenient that string.printable[x] == str(x) for any single digit x
import unicodedata
for val in range(0x2400, 0x2400 + 32):
    print(val, unicodedata.name(chr(val)))
17:02
Alternative possibility: The guy writing it just happened to do it that way.
Explains why the hardest-to-remember characters are at the end.
Implementation dependent. And by implementation we mean, the intern that was forced to write the boilerplate.
At this point the easiest solution to corvid's problem is, use unicodedata.name for everything from 32 up, and hardcode everything from 31 down.
(Make the intern do the hardcoding)
Thought that was going to end with "because I was the one that put them there"
I guess ensuring job security by making your code impossible for anyone else to maintain is more Machiavellian than ninja
This album is a bit old but it's awesome
I really dislike those programmers. The kind whose main value to the company is mastery of the operationally critical gordian knot they have created over the course of a decade.
DSM
DSM
17:45
An old "unicode character name" answer of mine just got upvoted. Coincidence? Mmmmmmaybe..
That was me.
Gotta push up that pagerank so I can find it again next time ;-)
Uh, assuming votes improve pagerank. No idea if they do.
[Shocked by the revelation that Kevin had not yet gone through his entire catalog of posts and upvoted each one, DSM begins a Luthorian scheme to exact revenge]
I wonder if you can engineer the upvote point cap to bomb someone's rep with strategically timed upvotes/retractions.
DSM
DSM
My scheme is very clever. Instead of downvoting Kevin, which is too easily detected, my army of bots will automatically upvote competing answers, so that Kevin's answers will receive statistically fewer votes than they should because of the attention drawn away.
Fiendish!
Death by rep inflation.
17:58
Woah, I just found out why i18n is abbreviated that way. I don't know if this is common knowledge, but that's really cool.
Because "nternationalizatio" is 18 letters.
Yup.
It's super lossy compression.
DSM
DSM
18:13
Really it's cheating, because you have to remember that fact instead, so they've just offloaded a fact into your brain..
My math is failing me. Can I expand out (d/2)*c? I tried d*c/2*c, but that looks wrong.
d*c/2
DSM
DSM
d*c/2
Ah, duh. Thanks!
18:20
Maffs is fun.
Feature request: Make it so that I can generate random integers in less chars than import random random.randomint.
You were probably thinking how (d/2)**c is the same as d**c / 2**c tho.
@QuestionC Sure, let's go with that. It makes me seem smarter.
+1 Bonus points for remembering more advanced formula. -10 for it being the wrong formula.
Wait, but once I divide out the 0 from both terms, I end up at a wash. I can live with that.
18:24
import random as r
r.randomint :P
@noelzubin It's the same amount of characters. :/
Well, bytes.
As far as I can tell my Neurons have all been spent on Math and Beatles songs, and I'm don't know particularly much about either TBH.
Speaking of The Beatles, have you read en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles:_The_Biography ?
Great biography, it covers from before they met till they very end.
does anybody watch One Punch Man?
18:33
I will read it if I ever get around to getting a library card.

I will also unconditionally add "You need an enema, Do something useful with your life!" in my lexicon of internet insults.
@QuestionC I. What? I like it.
Read the whole wiki article
@noelzubin No, but I read it.
The remake, not the original ONE run.
@QuestionC Hahaha, that's great.
There's really some visual spectacle in there. There's one chapter that's just a progressive zoom-out of the city until the camera is in space.
And another chapter where the protagonist fights the sonic ninja, flipping through the trees all nimbly bimbly... You can practically make a coherent flipbook out of the pages. I hear that didn't translate well into the show, unfortunately.
DSM
DSM
18:36
I've been reading the redrawn manga, and enjoying it.
I also like ONE's other comic, Mob Psycho 100, which has a very small number of psycho mobs despite the name.
Is there a good place for a person in an internet cafe to go if he wants to read One Punch Man? This is the second social circle that has referenced it in recent times.
I think mangareader.com has it. Or one of its competitors surely.
Has never seen the appeal of manga and/or comics, but is a fan of web-comics, go figure
Japan is weird and newspaper comics are a gated society ruled by 80 year old incumbent cartoonists. Webcomics can be made by anyone so you're bound to find something that resonates.
</just so story>
18:52
First time at the Py chatroom, Is there anyone in this chat that has deployed a flask application with Heroku?
And I guess more importantly willing to lend a hand perhaps?
Can't say I've ever done that.
I see well maybe someone will jump in. Thanks Kevin.
If you've got a concrete question, I suggest asking it even if no one seems to be participating. Some of our members may sign on later and see it while scrolling up.
@DanRubio you may have a higher chance if you explain what you need help with exactly
Young QuestionC went from 70's batman comics straight to 90's Manga, so there's a Pavlovian association between Japanese cartoons and vastly improved quality.
18:58
When Young Kevin was dragged along to his mom's friend's house, his mom's friend's son would show him anime since it was the only potential common interest available.
@DanRubio I know davidism is a flask magician so if he happens to see this (DO NOT PING HIM) then he may feel so inclined to talk but you should probably just ask a formal question in SO
Ok, here goes. I am having a very hard time deploying my application to Heroku because heroku cannot find and load app.config.from_pyfile('config.py') in my 'instance folder
Yeah I posted a question and he's attempted to help me out in the comments but this flask app won't work for some reason. Here's a link to one of his answers that is similar to mine stackoverflow.com/questions/31164127/…
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