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00:52
cbg
cbg @Jon :-)
Sky night looks nice at 2am
Got any stars?
plenty... living in a very rural area at the mo'
no light pollution
Cool :-)
01:01
think the lack of noise - how ironic - is why I can't sleep :)
Ah, I've had that, yeah ... perhaps you need some soothing background music, or the burbling of a TV in the next room?
lived in town centres and felt like a grumpy old man wanting to shout "shut the f* up, someone's trying to get some sleep here"
and normally lived in suburbs - where's it quiet - "omg! a vehicle - that must be a new exciting thing!"
It's just tonight for some reason feels quieter than others
not sure if I can describe it
I spent most of my childhood in suburbia, and very little since. I like cities.
@Zero lived in London for a little bit - couldn't stand it
Santiago's the biggest place I've lived - smaller than London, certainly, but a World City.
Why oh why is tonight's South Park taking so long to download?
01:23
@Zero still love this track
@Zero do you have access to iplayer there?
The number of things on Iplayer that will actually play here is so small as to not be worth bothering ...
um... I'm going to set up an account on the london server then
we've got 8tb of monthly data - I can do 150gb on iPlayer
been caught out on the "it's unlimited but read the short print and we'll charge you £10 per gb over 40gb" policy
Cool! We can stress-test it on Saturday with the next DW ep :-)
@Martijn either doesn't sleep, or his cron tab runs at 2:30 and 6:00
Heheheh
01:35
sent you an email
add 4 though
@Zero easiest if you sock5 the account
01:54
today's going to be interesting
Ta! Just testing it out with an episode of Pointless :-)
Interesting how?
signing keys, counter signing keys, getting auth tokens, then blah blah...
Sounds lovely :-)
you managed to login okay?
Yep, no probs ... have reset the password to a random 16-char one, but feel free to get rid of it altogether if you like; set up pwless auth as well.
02:07
I trust ya, so just whatever :)
So I know ... what is the TOS?
?
dog's barking - one sec
Terms of Service. Not that I'm planning to set up Silk Road 3.0, you understand, but since you're graciously letting me use your bandwidth, I feel obligated to inform myself.
02:21
lol - just use it
Okeydoke :-)
the dog (as far as I can tell) was just barking at his own reflection
so could well be an axe murderer in the house...
Practicing for intruders I expect ...
funniest thing is, he doesn't care about the front door
back of the house "grrr...." and everything
That is interesting, yeah ... visitors to the back door are presumably rarer, right?
02:30
probably wrongly, the back door is always open
Ah, well in that case the dog has a point :-)
unless I'm away, and then everything's locked up
03:04
yay, reached the point where I can hardly keep my eyes open - brb in a couple of hours
enjoy the snooze ...
hopefully dream of chasing cats and such :)
user559633
03:20
rb jon, sleep well
05:50
Cbg guys
cbg @vaultah :-)
cbg
06:09
cbg
06:27
Anybody here has a birthday today?
cbg
Testing the 22 rule thing? And no.
... but it's whether two of us share a birthday, not whether one of has their birthday today.
Well, I was here when two room regulars had birthdays
@Zero exactly
06:32
Yo!
Yeah the likelihood of two having a birthday today is low
... about 5.3% in fact.
Sorry, that's for at least one having a birthday today.
That seems too high
Sure it's not 0.53%?
1-(364/365)**20
Yeah. I realised I was wrong as soon as I said it :/
06:36
I thought it was too high at first then realised I'd forgotten about the 21 other people :p
Huh ... you now have a "too broad" CV to go with your "dupe" vote on that followup Q, @Veedrac. I wonder if that's because there are "too many possible answers" to a question that self-evidently has exacly one correct answer, or because "good answers" (i.e. your medium-length one with squillions of upvotes) "would be too long for this format"?
People are weird.
They just be jealous
At this rate it's going to get closed just before votes start expiring.
I imagine if it did happen, a speedy reopen wouldn't be a hard thing to accomplish :-)
cough yeah I'm sure something could be arranged
what are synonyms for layoffs in english? :P
need to do some social media analysis
06:50
Redundancy
So people are made redundant when they're fired
yeah, I know
That's actually the most common way
I really hate that word :D
job cuts
06:51
Downscaling possibly
hmm, yeah,
so have now la[yi]*off, fired, job cut*, redundan*, downscal*,
Downsizing is also used, but only by people who deserve to be repeatedly punched in the face.
yawn.close().dispatch(cbg)
terminated / temination ...
so lets see how much shit hits the fan in 30 minutes
06:55
sacked
joyful thread, first thing in the morning...
07:10
I have heard "rightsizing" as well
and "let go"
it never is rightsizing
they just should fire the managers
aint gonna happen
all layoffs should start from the top of the pyramid :D
save the most money :D
Cabbage, everyone
We need to "trim" the team to be fit for Agile. I am sorry...
How do people take job cuts in US and UK? In my company, the securities will be tightened near the doors, there will be an ambulance, and there will be only one way to exit the building...
@Jerry Got any tricks for this?
07:20
sort(staff,key=rank).rtrim() - if only.
As far as I understand it, redundancy isn't the same as firing; it's more like retrenchment. Firing is when you commit a fireable offence and won't go quietly.
-56
Q: A troubling Moderator

RicoA moderator for some reason is targetting me by going on my posts and answers and marking them down or deleting critical examples i have compiled and linked in comments. Two of the answers he downmarked perfectly execute and i had provided a compiled code for them. This behaviour is very discoura...

Ho ho, -56
well, the guy is persistent... I think most would have deleted the question by now.
P.s. cbg
BTW he has got only one downvote out of his two answers...
07:27
All the comments are gone though :(
@thefourtheye Too late but... \0 should work as well
I think I didnt understand the question. I thought that he did not want the capture group.
I didn't either. I then read the title =P
Actually I liked Avinash's answer more than grc's...
want the screenshots?
07:33
Yes @Swordy
hmm, ok, so \0 is something else in python..
Thanks man :-)
thats still incomplete , i do not know how long the discussion went on..
07:50
~15 comments more
cbg(all)
@Ffisegydd you owe me a 100 quid;)
> Peter_Varo : (I also finally managed to shift my life back to the normal hours -- so I won't be anymore there around 3 or 4 hopefully)
Ffisegydd : bahahahahaha...give it time @Peter...we've got an open bet on when you'll start living on LA time again. I've given it 3 weeks.
Peter_Varo : we'll see:):)
Ffisegydd : If I'm right I get £100 and I'd be willing to split it...
Cabbage
@Ffisegydd the first words were "dropping 16 % of workforce", bleh.
@AnttiHaapala is this your company?
as in: where you work
08:02
no
the company where I work can only drop 50 or 100 % of workforce.
Ah :)
Without surgery
This is in the review queue. Should it be closed?
6
Q: Python force a condition

Beta DecayIs there a way to force a condition to be true in Python? I've seen it being done in Haskell before and am wondering if you can do it Python. For example: >>> 2+2==5 True

I think it's a fair question, although I've no idea whether/why that's possible in Haskell
Can't see any reason to close that.
Gdgd
I was worried I was being biased
08:05
@RobertGrant exactly, so to rephrase my answer: the company where I work can drop only 50 % or 100 % of work force unless surgery is involved.
er okay :)
and no, I am not going to be amputated.
08:26
@Peter I owe you nothing as, alas, I did not win the bet.
oh.. so I had to get back to LA time to get the 100 quid :(
Yeah I would have split it with you.
Never mind.
oh well.. either way, I'm still proud I did not get back in that awful time-shift again ;)
08:55
Pypy alternative: Brython on v8? :)
That's not going to be nearly feature complete
hardly an alternative
I know C, and OOPS concepts, can anybody help me to guide, and I am wondering should I make Python or Ruby as my future, can anybody help me?
I don't know much about Brython. Is it actually usable in production or is it more of a proof-of-concept? Like, what is it written in?
It's probably really slow
08:57
@Ffisegydd javascript
It is slow
Ah I see, so it's Python written in JS...
@i-developer python.
I was thinking about using brython, it's slow
@i-developer with python you will be better of, wider use. Ruby is a niche language compared to python
@i-developer what Antti said.
08:59
surprising answers, given the room.
Hah, yeah. At the same time, seriously, I think most people here are professional enough to at least try to be unbiased.
I am trying to be unbiased here
@Ffisegydd ... AHAHAHAHAH!
We've got a lot of users who actively decry parts of Python remember.
however I didn't ever learn ruby because I knew Python already by the time someone was advocating Ruby and ROR.
09:00
just a passing comment, no implications attached :)
I only have played with it and ported ruby programs to Python.
I have heard ROR is faster than other back end languages like PHP... and it is emerging like any thing, but base of it depends on JAVA for which I am not highly interested
ROR is not a backend language
@Veedrac I'm actually serious, I think a lot of the people in this room can be unbiased. For me personally I really believe in using the correct tool for the job. If I had to do some insane complex number crunching then I would write it in F95. for web dev you should use JS and not Brython, etc.
09:03
ha? ROR = ruby on rails, is the web framework for ruby.
@JonClements I leave the office laptop open with the chat tab open. Presumably there are 2:30 and 6:00 cronjobs to update the anti-virus definitions or something like that.
@Antti, Does python does not require any thing related to java?
no, neither does ruby.
@i-developer No, it does not.
You can use Python on the Java Runtime with Jython.
the objective assessment is that
09:04
But that's for poor developers stuck on Java that want to use Python instead.
Seeking I only want to learn back end for developing webservices, as I am an iphone developer
unless you want to work for a web startup in silicon valley, then python is more prevalent in everywhere else
in web startups python is about on par with ruby.
@i-developer Ruby on Rails is a framework. A complete package to make it easier to build a certain type of website.
Python has Django to do the same.
You can also use something more flexible, like Pyramid or Flask
@i-developer well, we have used python + pyramid, django, turbogears as backend for many mobile apps.
it can be said that this kind of mobile/web backend, unbiased, is a tough fight between python and ruby.
but in all other fields python is far stronger than ruby, so learning Python is a better bet; also if you are strong in backend dev, usually the patterns are more or less similar in either language so you can pick up the other fast.
Alright, thanks for clearing it. Although I don't want to be a back end developer but as much as required for webservices/api
09:11
I wouldn't want to be an iphone programmer, or <x> programmer. I do not want to be a programmer. I want to be an engineer, or computer scientist. :D
the thing is, some years from now, no more iphone, all the iphone programmers will be unemployed, many programmers will be jobless, but damn the world is going to be fscked up if no need for engineers or CS :D
@AnttiHaapala aren't those just words, really?
@PeterVaro not really.
Software engineers go beyond the tricks for one target.
if someone says "I don't want to program backends, I want to do IPhone", then one is unnecessarily painting oneself into corner.
They understand the choices made for such a target and why the outcome of those decisions may differ for other platforms.
@MartijnPieters for me that's exactly what a "programmer" / "developer" should do in the first place
09:13
Python is the best antidote, if one programs backend with python, then one leaves at least one wall clear to walk away from the corner...
I am an engineer
an engineer can say "I am an engineer, we don't program."
a programmer can't say "I am a programmer, we don't program."
@MartijnPieters although a "scientist" is different -- those guys may invent algorithms that other devs are implementing -- for me those are other breeds..
Full fledged programming and advance knowledge requires a good amount of time, that is why many developers need to target and restrict to some portion out of the whole
it is some BS by HR ppl to try to keep you stuck in one company :d
@PeterVaro Yup, Antii is not working out why one software development technique is more productive than another in controlled studies.
So he nor I are Computer Scientiests.
ah that is software engineering studies,
not computer scientist...
09:16
@i-developer Better invest some of that time in the fundamentals, you'll understand the specifics so much easier and faster that way.
I have done that too
Alright
@AnttiHaapala Right, developing new AI techniques then.
[x] I have designed new algorithms (this would be CS)
[x] I have studied (a bit) about the software engineering productivity and made a research (my thesis) (this would be SwEng.)
damnit, a computer scientist does not need to develop new AI technique
bresenham is a computer scientist and his contribution was how to draw a line and a circle :D
and these are very useful results too
timsort is about computer science for example.
@AnttiHaapala, may I please know the reason behind you said , "all the iphone programmers will be unemployed"
09:21
@i-developer How many NeXT programmers do you know? How many system 7?
paradigms do change
I mean, there is nothing wrong in about liking to do iPhone now
So do you want to point to iphone market as already 12 million apps there?
@i-developer but I come from a town with most likely highest % of Nokia S40 and S60 developers in the world.
@AnttiHaapala sure, Tim Peters is a very accomplished software engineer.
He used CS-developed techniques to come up with a better algorithm.
The line is a little blurred, but I do think there is a distinction.
Ok, I do not want to be academic computer science researcher right now
I'm not very good at expressing this though.
09:26
meaning I do not want to publish papers about algorithms in peer reviewed papers
but what I do mostly is not only about developing, but also engineering and computer science, these concepts have some overlap but their centers of gravities do not lie within each other
Right, the scientist publishes peer-reviewed papers, that's one characteristic.
SE is applied CS perhaps.
09:44
SE is to CS like Mechanical Engineering is to Physics
I've only just realised each person's picture changes size depending on how many consecutive lines their chat takes up.
That's cool
or SE is CS with constraints on TIME and MONEY :D
what I hate is that I often end up working as a programmer bc someone else says "Someone has to do programming, and someone has to manage the someone doing programming. Since I can't do programming, you will do it and I will supervise you"
@AnttiHaapala have a star for that
thanks :D
it helps (a bit)
Good. Now BACK TO WORK
09:59
Wow
bank gave me a refund
I moaned that they were sending me text alerts when I didn't request them - they've now apparently fixed the problem in the system, and given me money for it
must add to CV: "debugged a major bank SMS system"
@JonClements Well hello
Hello... do you hear me... have you been alright, all those lonely lonely nights? What can I say...
(think those are the lyrics anyway)
coulda just said cbg @Veedrac - less typing ;)
10:11
@Veedrac if I understood correctly, that is not cabbage :?
I'm just going by the title, Unicode Han Character 'celery, cabbage'
but the brassica rapa (chinesis + so forth)
I have no idea what you just said
being the napa and chinese cabbage and so on
That doesn't help much
10:12
I'll get back to work... too much cabbage for this puppy :)
wrong species :D
the guy who came up with that should be shot :)
brassica rapa is the same species as turnip (and chinese cabbage) :D
but I will say that Bắp cải
@Antti "Brassica Rapa" - now that's a cool name... could launch music videos under that
rapa in Finnish means dirty slushy water on the road
10:16
@JonClements FWIW, you wanted to remind you to vote today but I've already snowballed into my reputation cap
@Veedrac ahh... remind me tomorrow then?
Sure thing :)
I can be voted on any day :d
What? Four close votes? Has the world gone mad?
They're all from my dupe accounts for stealing my observation and turning it into a question :)
10:29
Do you take bribes?
Er, yes actually I do
bahahahahahaha Peter cast the final vote.
it is an actual dupe
No it's not, it's an extension to the question surely?
@PeterVaro It really isn't.
10:32
I think in that case the question should be extended
In any case, I've voted to re-open.
maybe in the comment section but it would be better in the question's body itself
No, sorry Peter but you're dead wrong here. It's an entirely separate question which arises from an aspect of my answer.
@Ffisegydd well all right, I voted to reopen.. if that is the room's interest :P
I did as well
10:33
"Could this be the question that tears sopython apart? Who will protect the Holy Cabbage if our fearless warriors are fighting amongst eachother!? Will the nefarious php developers make use of this dreadful split? Find out next week on CABBAGE WARS!"
@Peter nah you should vote how you feel, just because we disagree with you doesn't mean you should feel obliged to agree with us.
@ZeroPiraeus hmm.. okay.. I was thinking about cv since @Veedrac posted the question..
but probably you are all right.
Sometimes people stuff and I disagree with it so don't vote.
I already did
if most of you say I'm wrong, I stand it => now it is opened again
It seems I can cast reopen votes on my own question... I wonder if my hammer would have allowed me to do it alone.
I believe so, as it shows a golden badge next to your name in the history
10:36
Bwahaha @PeterVaro, your closures cannot stop me!
@Veedrac at least all the close votes have gone now ;)
so you should thank me :P:P
Thank you for saving me from having to pay bribes.
:):):)
The correct close vote reason is of course "This question appears to be off-topic because it is getting more upvotes than the answer which inspired it".
Should more people want to close it as a dupe it may be worth flagging for mod attention. We don't want to start a closing war, especially as the question was written and self-answered by one of us. It might look bad like "Oh they're just protecting their own" to the outside.
10:38
@Ffisegydd And we shall wage war!
@ZeroPiraeus or "I'm jealous of all the up votes on both the question and answers -- so please, close this"
@Veedrac funny as it is to joke about we've had issues in the past where people have complained and it caused a stink :P
@ZeroPiraeus Despite writing "I'm going to assume any readers of this question to have read [your answer]", my question has more views.
People are funny
@Ffisegydd I'll keep it in mind
Ahhh... monitor doesn't work when you don't have it plugged into the mains... how inconvenient
@Ffisegydd why not commenting the question: this is not a dupe of the original because...
and then we can upvote that comment as feedbacks that we all agree on that
10:42
@Veedrac Yeah, thanks for bringing that up. Actually I'm not even slightly bitter, and the rumour that the Morrissey song "We Hate It When Our Friends Become Successful" has been rattling around my head ever since your Q/A started its dizzy assent is entirely unsubstantiated.
@JonClements terrible! outrages! those damn product designers and engineers!
@PeterVaro I know - gosh darnit - they should tell one things like this!
@PeterVaro I had a comment on those lines but it was removed, probably for being old
@Veedrac if you comment again, I will upvote it -- as others will do as well (I guess)
@PeterVaro My old one had four votes. It don't think that will change much.
@JonClements My (laptop's) monitor works fine off the mains
10:45
@Veedrac but why was it removed in the first place? if that would be the only comment under the question => it would make a difference IMHO
@Veedrac does it still work if you remove the battery?
Let me try
hold on
for example: I always read the first 3-4 comments on a question before I cv
@PeterVaro I agree. Maybe it was because I was @-referencing someone who later retracted their "it's a duplicate" claim
are laptop batteries "more clever" these days, or is it still good practice that if you're going to be running it off mains for days at a time, to take the battery out
10:47
@JonClements I've heard both ways
@Veedrac oh.. that's possible.. anyway, if you have extra energy, I recommend you to do it
I'll consider it if there are more close-as-duplicate votes.
I've only had this laptop since May and already the charge time has increased, and the usage decreased when on battery
@JonClements what brand? which model?
@Peter errr... none really... it was custom built
10:50
a custom built "laptop" -- wow;)
People do that?
@Veedrac throw enough £ and they do
I was only aware of this custom built open source HW/SW laptop ;)
but this is a different thing ofc..
couldn't find a pre-built 2x4tb disk, 1xtb ssd, 64gb ram, 2xquad core processor laptop
@JonClements ...
Battery life? 4 minutes?
10:52
:P
@Veedrac sadly you're close :)
64GB RAM -- what for?
I mean 16/32 is more than enough for almost anything
@Peter world domination
you can even install your OS in the RAM if you want to
@JonClements aaaahh.. okay.. that makes sense.
I work with very large data sets... so more memory, the faster the disks, the bigger the storage, etc...
10:54
That makes sense, but I'm still scared
it's also got an 8gb graphics card
btw if you want a power-house like that one -- why working with mobile parts?
@JonClements but also a mobile one..
@Peter because I want to be able to move it about
like to use it on the train, etc...
You could buy a desktop with an RC attatched
and you will need all the 64 gigs on the train, right? ;)
my dream setup is a power-house workstation at home with large displays (2x27") double video cards, tons of SSDs in RAID, etc. and a small MacBook Air 11" for the road
10:59
@Peter go for the dream!
@Peter oh... sorry I haven't got back to you about our Skype discussion - I haven't heard anything yet... (so probably a no-go) but I'll chase next week

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