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13:01
@MartijnPieters ahh, thanks for recommendation, seems interesting, I will try to grab that if possible (since it is indicated as 'no upcoming broadcasts')
and bon appétit too!
@deinonychusaur ikr? although for me, the 'dark woods' part is massive enough to just listen to it for a long long time
youtube.com/watch?v=q7mXODmEABQ seems to be episode 2 of 3 so they might all be on youtube
aaaaand yes ;)
user559633
13:20
is there a way to refer to a key from within the same dict?

e.g.

test = {
    'message': 'hi, this is a test string',
    'c_format': len(str(__PREVIOUS__KEY__)) = 's'
}
user559633
put differently, as dictionaries are of metaclass type and type has bases in tuple, is it possible to access indices from within a dictionary on instantiation?
I doubt it
No it's not - as the instance doesn't exist until the closing } so there's nothing to refer to
cbg @davidism
Could you not get the behaviour in your case by subclassing dict and just adding keys in init?
cbg @JonClements
user559633
13:26
thanks @JonClements
user559633
@deinonychusaur if i go down that path, i might as well just populate the dict from a function
yes true that, but I expect it is as close as it gets
user559633
:) thank you though. i was trying to avoid making the equivalent of a defaultdict with preset keys (with attrs generated by functions)
I don't know if the update-function is called from init, else that could be a target
The simplest you could get, like you say @tristan is a function wrapper
def build_dict(text):
	d = {'message': text}
	d.update(c_format=len(d['message']))
	return d
user559633
13:29
yep :) that's what i resorted to @JonClements, thanks :)
WTF does my editor keep switching indentation settings! :(
It's an elaborate prank.
Your neighbor is gaslighting you so he can eventually have you committed and gain control over your lavish estate.
Gaslighting or gas-lighting[1] is a form of mental abuse in which false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity
Why Jon, your indentation settings have always been the way they are now.
You must be disoriented. Here, take these pills.
13:34
@Kevin pills? I don't need pills. The King of the Potato People says no...
Unless I do need pills and I've forgotten
ummm....
Well, if his majesty says so...
shrugs, tosses bottle out of window
I say, gaslight your neighbor right back. Break in and sand off the bottom half inch of all his table legs. Repeat every week.
I reckon that's a great idea... Break in and shave half an inch off the bottom of his legs... got it...
He'll never notice! Cunning plan sir, a cunning plan!
user559633
any in contact with someone that works at mozilla? i want some candid info about how it is to work there/their pay rate/general workerbee happiness
@tristan 'fraid I don't know of anyone
user559633
no worries :)
user559633
13:40
starting to line up the ducks for my springtime expatriation :)
A friend used to work there on thunderbird
cbg again
user559633
@deinonychusaur if he's game, i'd like to send him an email with questions
@tristan I'll ask
user559633
13:51
thanks :)
@tristan I know a few.
blog.hannosch.eu is an ex-colleague of mine.
@tristan I think it is ok
Also limi.net, another Plone guy (founder of the project, founder of the company I worked at in Norway).
14:00
@thefourtheye That guy was in here the other day as well.
@Kevin We know him from before that too.
user559633
I'll read his blog, thanks @MartijnPieters. I have some questions that I wouldn't want to have the answers to broadcasted publicly for the sake of Mozilla (e.g. pay rate, etc)
I suspect he's the same user that had a zalgo text name and said that he really wanted to stop being a troll, and he means it this time, promise
@tristan I can probably hook you up, I mean.
maybe I should change my avatar :D
user559633
14:01
Oh, I would appreciate it.
Got to love necromancers
And why can't Python write my reports for me yet?
You don't have enough RAM
Other than report = ['yak'] * random.randint(1000, 10000)
@IntrepidBrit you can produce pdfs using LaTeX and jinja2 within Python so stop complaining :P
14:04
@Kevin I bloody well should! This computer has 32 GBs!
@Ffisegydd Ha! I wish. This is a jointly written report, so have to work with non-techies.
Hmm, that should be enough for sentience to emerge... Maybe Python just doesn't want to write your reports.
@Ffisegydd I doubt jinja2 would be the choice to do latex though...
{} overloads?
@IntrepidBrit give them lyx
@Kevin I don't blame it. That's why I want Python to write the reports ... looks suspiciously at computer
then %include yours
@Kevin I haven't met this client in person.... eyes Python warily
14:07
@tristan If you email me at mj at zopatista dot commercial-top-level-domain I'll see if I can forward it with an intro.
Lyx is pretty sweet. I wrote my MPhys thesis in it rather than LaTeX. And it is possible to replace the {} with another symbol for using LaTeX.
@AnttiHaapala Hm. Never used lyx, will give it a shot, see if they bite
I did my masters in it
@tristan I'm off, my friend didn't reply, but seems Martijn hooks you up.
user559633
:) have a good day @deinonychusaur
14:10
u2
@IntrepidBrit in the end lyx is easier than formatting word documents :d
@IntrepidBrit Lyx is to LaTeX what <simple-object> is to <complex-object>
I can't think of a good example right now.
@AnttiHaapala In capitalist West, Word formats you
But you get the idea.
fortunately I live in soviet finland
14:13
@AnttiHaapala I had the distinct impression that Finland is quite proud of having kept the Soviets out.
it was a poor joke
@Ffisegydd I do
It's basically a WYSIWYG wrapper around LaTeX.
So it looks like LaTeX but is much more user friendly for non-techies.
Wiki page describes it as WYSIWYM. (What you see is what you mean)
@AnttiHaapala Best not told at home then. I'm sure someone will recount having been there when you beat the Ruskies, then telling you how wrong you are.
14:18
cbg all
almost all of them dead by now, except my grandma's bf
cbg
DSM
DSM
Cabbage to all.
cbg @DSM
DSM
DSM
@IntrepidBrit: I used an "In Soviet Russia, X verbs you" joke a few months ago and everyone got it except the Australian at the table..
@Ffisegydd Then I shall investigate it. LaTeX was an absolute lifesaver when I was doing my honours dissertation
@DSM Oh those aussies...
14:29
Yeah LaTeX is beastly.
user559633
@MartijnPieters sent you an email. Thank you again
@tristan I see GMail tried to deliver it. I have greylisting set up, so next attempt should come through.
user559633
Oh man. I'm actually a spammer. Busted.
Never heard of greylisting. Cool idea.
@tristan Damn, then my next line of defence, DSPAM, will block you too.
Too bad.
@Zacrath Double whammy: either the spammer doesn't resend, or the DNS blacklists have been updated by the time they do resend.
user559633
14:40
what's after dspam?
Apple Mail junk filters.
What they catch is fed back into DSPAM once a day to retrain.
85% of what gets past greylisting is spam still.
by the time it gets past all the defences it is more like 0.05%.
If that.
user559633
dang. gmail catches 100% of my incoming spam
Yeah, but I don't have GMail's resources.
but I do have more control over my own email handling this way.
@Martijn the sopython.com emails are hosted by google :)
user559633
fair enough. i've just never thought of email as an interesting problem to work on.
user559633
14:50
(read: i'm lazy)
15:01
just learned about vim marks... eh hehehehehe
The amount of false answers in this question is mental.
"example F1 F2 F3 so.. on which you can see on your keyboard are called alphanumeric numbers"
@Al.Sal That's the worst one xD
@Iplodman re: yahoo questions, I remember on the writing advice one someone posted the first page of infinite jest and the answers included a link to "elements of style"...
@Al.Sal Well, that stupidity is lost on me xD
15:21
Wow - England are well ahead in the CW games so far
DSM
DSM
The games aren't getting much traction here in the True North for some reason. The highlights get covered, but that's about it.
Is "True North" a genuine term used by Canadians?
The games are getting so little traction here, that I didn't even know they existed until I googled it
@Kevin well - you're in a country that has a "World Cup" - that only includes one country... I'm strangely not surprised...
DSM
DSM
@Ffisegydd: it's from the anthem. In practice it's only used semi-tongue-in-cheek, although thematically similar phrases pop up all over the place. ("We the North", etc.)
15:28
It's not like the CW games in the 3rd/4th largest international competition in the world :)
DSM
DSM
@JonClements: er, do you mean the World Series?
I really hope Mauritius' bronze medal was in the ancient sport of Regexing and was won by Jerry...
TIL that Canada didn't have "God Save the Queen" as a national anthem... (not surprised but I suppose it's not something I've ever thought about)
DSM
DSM
We only sing God Save the Queen on extremely formal occasions.
@Ffisegydd do you reckon it's worth having a list of "approved" sopython.com users on the trello page?
@Jon eventually there's plans to have a management page which will list people in the "approved" group, as well as the ability to add/remove people rather than needing to use the sopy shell
15:33
@JonClements one of the feature requests is for a group management page so approved users can see and edit the list
@Ffisegydd get out of my head!
that was spooky :)
No! It's warm and comfy in here.
DSM
DSM
I have javascript to think about. I don't have time to google "what do dogs think about".
@davidism for reference - what's the command to list them? I'm guessing via a shell that uses the orm?
@Jon I've got a list of the commands written down on my Mac at home, I'll add them all to the Trello later (add to list, show the list, deploy the app, etc)
15:38
@Ffisegydd sounds good - ty :)
@Martijn you cheeky monkey with your comment you :p
{<User Ffisegydd>,
<User DSM>,
<User Kevin>,
<User davidism>,
<User Martijn Pieters>,
<User Antti Haapala>,
<User vaultah>,
<User Jerry>,
<User thefourtheye>,
<User Peter Varo>,
<User tristan>,
<User Jon Clements>,
<User Ahmad>,
<User Zero Piraeus>}
In any case there's the current list.
I'll add that to the Trello temporarily.
Cheers. That looks shorter (for some reason) than the allowed.py list we had... or maybe it's just the formatting of it and I have a different font size in the editor than chat is playing tricks
Everyone who was on the list is on there and then some.
Should be anyway.
We're missing Games though.
You should tag your question as "python-4". — miindlek 6 mins ago
15:46
$ sopy shell
In [1]: from sopy.auth.models import Group
In [2]: Group.query.filter_by(name='approved').one().users
@Antti cbg :)
Ok I've added Games to the list now too.
@tristan: passed your message on to Hanno.
wb @Martijn
user559633
15:51
thank you!
So this is "networking"... I feel like I should be taking notes.
While you're taking notes in the corner on "how to network" we'll all be networking at the bar.
I'm the one in camouflage, peering from behind the duck blind.
And by "networking" I mean sitting alone with a bottle of Hendrick's thinking about my life decisions.
Day 523: I was offered a link to a Django tutorial. The colony seems to have accepted me as one of their own.
9
15:57
@Ffisegydd I thought networking was playing 18 holes and getting increasingly inebriated from a hipflask
I miss golf :(
never played - but reckon I'd be fairly good - just like snooker, but with a larger amount of felt and wholes
I miss snooker too :(
I like old-man games.
I use to make quite a bit of money from pool :)
@JonClements I'm pretty sure you hold the bat differently in snooker and golf.
15:59
Day 35: My question was downvoted multiple times. Obviously, the heard recognized me as an impostor.
@Zero oh come on - they're just "sticks" made of different materials - they're easily interchangable techniques
In my undergraduate we used to play pool pretty much everyday.
I once worked out how much I'd spent on pool over 4 years. It was not good.
@Ffisegydd well, I use to make £400 a night from playing it :)
DSM
DSM
> It is your choice to be a slave of predefinition or self-definition pioneer.
We never used to bet :P apart from our pride.
16:02
Got 9 balls in off the break once... I was quite surprised
That's pretty lucky.
I've had 3 a fair few times. Think I had 4 once or twice.
Couple of times, managed to get the 9ball in when playing 9ball pool several times
We always played 8-ball.
I was always terrible at pool except when one of two songs came on the jukebox.
Occasionally we'd play 9-ball if we went down to the snooker club and fancied a change.
16:03
Some weird psychological thing.
Always use to play trick shots for fun when I practiced
I was always a big fan of snookering people, and my friends absolutely hated it. I was despised for it.
Does sending the cueball flying into someone's drink and then claiming to have done it on purpose count as a trick shot? I was quite good at that.
my favourite was being able to play into one side of a pocket's cushion such that it bounced off the other side to effectively go horizontal...
@Jon we'll have to make sure we hold sopycon somewhere with a table ;)
16:06
@Ffisegydd £50 a game - you're on :)
Heh. No.
We'll need a darts board too.
@Ffisegydd and put the avatars of our "disruptive visitors" onto it? :)
Yes.
I once stabbed a woman with a dart.
In my defence, it was her fault.
kay. I'ma go buy a macbook.
DSM
DSM
You might want to throw the word "unintentionally" in there.
16:08
This could take a dark turn ...
@Ffisegydd until your lawyer turns up - I think you should be silent :)
We'd been playing darts for hours and she decided to sit next to/beneath the board...
We told her we wanted to keep on playing and she ignored us.
So I threw a shot and it bounced out of the cork and landed in her arm.
@Ffisegydd so you walked up to her and violently stabbed her with a dart :)
Then she had the nerve to complain!
A few more times and she might have got a free tattoo ...
16:11
@corvid good man/bird. The 13in Airs are very nice. 1) Make sure you get the student discount. 2) I'd suggest upgrading the RAM to at least 8GB as the default 4GB would probably be a bit too slow.
I was 18...good times...we left shortly after that.
DSM
DSM
Pointillism body art via darts? Uhh..
I had a macbook air, it's nice but for the extra 200 I feel like the retina display is well worth it
Depends what you need it for. I wanted mine portable and you can't really complain with a 11-12 hour battery...
@Ffisegydd different from me, I just need a complete workhouse that can last 2/3 hours on battery
I've got my PC for that. Hard to carry a tower around...
16:13
@DSM Kanji might be a bit much, but you might manage something in Braille.
I just need a <not Apple>.
32gb ram, dual quad core, 2x2tb drives and a 512gb solid state works for my needs
want a mac laptop for iOS dev, and for watching movies and stuff. Maybe playing the occasional gaemb, most of the triple A titles are on mac these days, right?
not particularly light though, but it's mostly carryable
You can bring it to sopycon. We'll have the PC show-and-tell in the corner next to the nibbles.
16:15
@Ffisegydd my dad's bigger than your dad kind of thing? :)
@DSM I refrained from ordering curry last night, but tonight I shall succumb to the desire of a tandoori mixed grill, vegetable curry and garlic naan
Yeah kinda. Except my "Dad" is smaller and sleaker than yours and can last for 12 ho...yeah let's leave the analogy there...
DSM
DSM
@JonClements: that's the spirit. If you're eating tasty food from the subcontinent, it should be on a Friday. Why? No one knows, that's just the way it is.
Oh wow... my gf use to love this song - brings back some strange memories - was still relatively young then :)
user559633
"This video is not available in your country." now i can't get my 'base on
DSM
DSM
"This video is not available in your country." Guess I can't see the sign, or have a beautiful life..
16:19
huh.. the Facebook is down..
user559633
Thanks a lot Obama
DSM
DSM
Oh, wow. Not only did I basically use tristan's exact joke, I was slow to it..
Are you guys mind melding with each other or something?
user559633
or something ;)
It's like mitosis but in reverse.
16:21
Or, as a community are we so strong, people are starting to share each others' thoughts? :)
We're pairs slowly forming until eventually there will be One. This One will then battle to Martijn.
user559633
Marijn is just the head of Voltron
user559633
I like to think of myself as the shin
user559633
Good god is Kevin's "Day 523" quote hilarious
16:22
Most hilarious thing since someone said to me: "Jon - can I have a quick word in your rear".... "OMG OMG.... I meant ear!!!! So sorry"
can you downgrade memory to make a mac laptop cheaper? I very much doubt 8gb is necessary
user559633
how does a word go in an...nevermind, i don't want to know
user559633
8gb is super necessary
user559633
and no
DSM
DSM
16:28
I had a 4GB macbook, and regularly wished I had more.
user559633
you're a python developer. if you're not wasting at least 4gb of memory, you're not writing enough code.
The fact that Windows and Mac need 8GB to run comfortably is ridiculous.
I dunno, my windows runs on 4gb and it's plenty more than enough
I run pretty minimalistic machines... hate having anything installed I don't use every day
It's very rare that I go over 60% of my 4GB. What are you guys doing?
(on Ubuntu though, maybe that's why)
user559633
@ZeroPiraeus using chrome. writing python in an IDE. executing python.
16:31
Arch with XFCE, the only things using appreciable memory are PyCharm and Firefox
and I still barely hit 2GB most of the time
Okay, fair enough re: Chrome ... but writing Python?
user559633
in an IDE. sorry, edited.
Unless your an Emacs user ;-)
user559633
brb
my eyes just totally read that page wrong
16:33
@davidism firefox uses 2 gigs in 2 minutes
My record for Firefox was 11 G, on a machine with 8 G of RAM.
@Zero did you just use "your" instead of "you're" - loads shotgun
Firefox has been open for 7 days now and is using about 1GB
I deny it absolutley.
@corvid seriously you'll need 8gb. No question.
user559633
16:39
my google chrome is using ~300MB ._. what are you guys doing?
user559633
an ominous "kernel_task" is taking up 1GB
@tristan Is that why you went away briefly? To blow up sheep?
user559633
also, @corvid you need to sum the memory usage of all chrome processes. it forks.
remembers running pre-1.0 Firefox on a 64MB machine
What did that poor sheep do to you?
user559633
16:41
shifts uncomfortably in seat re-enacting monty python
@tristan 300, 219, 40
user559633
and worker threads, etc
Ignore my account, my brother's on it.
uh, no? tell him to get his own account
16:43
I come back from lunch, and my comment which implicitly compares room members to primitive apes, has five more stars. Just another entry for "things I don't understand about people".
user559633
yeah @Iplodman just make him get his own account
You know, I bet Jane Goodall never had to worry about the chimpanzees reading her journal.
I think that Mac ram is soldered onto the motherboard. Meaning if you decrease it and regret it you're stuck. You don't know in the future what you might be doing, you may need it someday.
you're responsible for whatever happens with your account, whether you do it or not
user559633
ugh this is hard to watch @JonClements
user559633
"how's comes"
how to dump a requests.Request object as fully as possible as a str
what I want is the whole HTTP request pls :D
@tristan she's dead now... but was quite amusing while she was alive
user559633
i..don't know who that is
16:48
I think I'm lost a little bit.. why one wants to use threading over multiprocessing, when threading can't step aside from GIL? or am I misunderstood what each of those modules are for?
I have no idea what that was, but now I too am curious about eskimo funeral rites.
@tristan she was a UK big brother "contestant" in the first/second series I think
user559633
that's depressing
user559633
all of that sentence.
she went on to make millions though - before she died leaving two young children
user559633
16:49
HOW
user559633
this just gets worse
user559633
1) the UK imported our trash
2) she was a "contestant" in the zoo
3) she made millions
4) two young children are without a mother
what with the publicity and setting up her own beauty chain, ironically called "Ugly's", and no doubt her accountants making a few investments on her behalf
@PeterVaro I use threading when a program's logic is made simpler by having two "program counter"s, to borrow the assembly term. I don't care that the run time is no faster than a single thread program; I only care that it was easier for me to write.
16:51
so anyone willing to answer my q about requests :D
user559633
she had millions. i did not. i've arguably contributed vast amounts more to the world.
Jade Cerisa Lorraine Goody (5 June 1981 – 22 March 2009) was an English reality television personality. She came into the public spotlight while appearing on the third series of the then Channel 4 programme Big Brother in 2002, an appearance which led to her own TV programmes and the launch of her own products after her eviction from the show. In January 2007, she was a housemate in Celebrity Big Brother 5. During the show she was accused of racially bullying the Indian actress Shilpa Shetty. Following her eviction from the show, she admitted her actions had been wrong and subsequently made many...
I dunno dude. Do you have a beauty shop chain?
user559633
wow. a racist simpleton. hooray. give her money.
@tristan Your trash?
16:53
very odd family, and she certainly wasn't the sharpest knife in the drawer to say the least
user559633
<-- american
Jade Goody was English, and Big Brother is originally Dutch.
@Kevin that makes sense -- what I'm trying to do however is to separate the UI and the logic, and actually the logic is downloading things
so my thought was: use multiprocessing, put ui into one process the logic into another, and start a process for each of the downloads
or something like that -- since I never wrote any parallel stuff (other than OpenGL, but that is totally different)
There's a distinct difference between overt racism and lacking even an average IQ :)
user559633
I did not know Big Brother was originally Dutch :)
user559633
16:56
I'm proud of that ignorance.
I'm a bit confused now..
Hmm, not sure if downloading would block other threads. And even if it doesn't, does it cause a measurable slowdown in download speeds if it has to yield control to other threads occasionally. In these cases, multiprocessing would be preferable.
I'm not sure either -- that's why I'm asking ;)
DSM
DSM
Why, C++ exception? Why won't you be caught by Python even though I think I've swigged you correctly?
16:59
man. Does google maps api have a way to look up specific types of places?
To answer my own question from earlier, nomadic Inuit people in fact don't bury their dead underground. They lay them down far away from camp, and cover them with a cairn of stones.
- The more you know -

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