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user559633
00:11
ugh. that time in which you spend 30 minutes debugging and it turns out you used 'file' as a named param to a method
hey guys
user559633
yo
setuptools argh
user559633
huh what
user559633
00:14
tl;dr
user559633
do you want me to help you debug something?
yes please
i'm installing setuptools
but i get this error
user559633
why are you using that instead of just pip
  File "<stdin>", line 129
    except pkg_resources.VersionConflict as VC_err:
i'm trying to install pip lol
but i need setuptools to do so, no?
user559633
what os
user559633
00:16
i mean, as much as i like to see full swear jars
user559633
which
user559633
debian or redhat variant?
user559633
yum search pip
user559633
00:17
yum install python-pip probably
no pip packages =(
user559633
copy paste
user559633
yum -y install python-pip
oh it's in the epel repo
oh dear
bloody wifi speakers
00:23
got it. thanks!
user559633
no problem
another syntax error
wth
 File "django/utils/version.py", line 20

    parts = 2 if version[2] == 0 else 3

               ^

SyntaxError: invalid syntax
this is when installing django
'pip install django'
the inline if should work since i'm running 2.7.6
oh wait pip might be using the wrong version of python
00:55
that's why you want to use virtualenv ;)
then you know for sure that pip will use the python version you created the venv in
01:08
sigh my reputation is slowly creeping up...
02:03
oh you're back?
hi @Volatility
02:44
Hi everyone
03:01
heya
hey Matt- how's things?
Not too shabby.
delicious dinner tonight, so I'm a happy fellow.
same here - just discovered a new cheese
Oh?
do share.
I like cheese.
it's a smoked garlicy kinda cheese
it's really weird
I liked smoked cheese. I like garlic ... Stands to reason that I would like them together.
03:10
Cabbage everyone!
wb @Sam
Thank you
arhggh.. shouldn't be eating cheese at 3am
The best cheese in my opinion is smoked mozzarella
I could eat a brick of it and I don't usually like cheesy stuff
@JonClements -- I feel like the statement "shouldn't be __________ at 3am" is true for all ________ except ________ == sleep
03:14
Blankety Blank is a British comedy game show based on the 1977–9 Australian game show Blankety Blanks (which was in turn based on the American game show Match Game). The British version ran from 18 January 1979 to 12 March 1990 on BBC One, hosted first by Terry Wogan and later by Les Dawson. Regular members of the celebrity panel on this version included Kenny Everett, Lorraine Chase, Gareth Hunt, Gary Davies, and Cheryl Baker. A revival fronted by Lily Savage (played by Paul O'Grady) was produced by the BBC from 26 December 1997 to 28 December 1999, followed by ITV from 7 January 2001...
DSM
DSM
Cabbage; cheese; British game shows. Welcome to the SO Python chat, I guess..
If you can't eat it, we don't talk about it ....
@DSM indeed- we like to keep things interesting
err... hmmm... british game shows ...
There's also the discussion from earlier today about tossing rocks out of boats.
I wasn't privy to the actual discussion, but I did read the transcript.
DSM
DSM
@mgilson: "Dale's Supermarket Sweep".
03:17
Every time you hear the beep... :(
The only british show ive watched is The IT Crowd
Hilarious show
As long as you understand irony and sarcasm - you'll do okay in that regards
I'm the most sarcastic person you'll meet haha
So Id be fine
no way!?
what's sarcasm?
Oh wait, that's ignorance ... My mistake.
No you totally nailed it @mgilson
Does anybody else feel like the universe has betrayed them when a trusted user refers to a list as an "array"? Or am I the only one who is plagued by that problem?
IT MAKES ME SO MAD
EVERY TIME SOMEONE CALLS A PYTHON LIST AN ARRAY A BABY ELEPHANT DIES SLOWLY
DSM
DSM
@mgilson: well.. I mean.. it kind of is an array.. if you think about it..
03:26
thats a lot of capital letters there @samrap ... (and why did you pick elephants)?
@DSM -- is it?
Point is they're called lists in Python
It's kind of like an array -- But python has a bunch of other types equally like an array.
If I had to choose, I'd consider a tuple to be more array-like than a list ...
What is the actual difference between a tuple and list?
Besides generators and comprehensions
DSM
DSM
Some of us learned from textbooks which would call Python lists arrays, and would reserve list for some linked list variant, so a list isn't a list. It actually took me a bit to get used to.
But then, neither are arrays ... that's what the array module is for.
@samrap -- the main difference is mutability.
from a practical standpoint.
From a more conceptual standpoint, I suppose some have argued that "tuples have structure, lists have order"
03:30
Good point, but tuples keep items in the order they were assigned don't they?
yes.
So what do you mean by structure and order
283
A: What's the difference between list and tuples in Python?

nikowApart from tuples being immutable there is also a semantic distinction that should guide their usage. Tuples are heterogeneous data structures (i.e., their entries have different meanings), while lists are homogeneous sequences. Tuples have structure, lists have order. Using this distinction ma...

DSM
DSM
Of course in practice, everybody uses both heterogeneous lists and homogeneous tuples. But a namedtuple feels right in a way that a namedlist wouldn't.
Thanks, that makes sense
I typically use tuples for sets of data like x,y coordinates and what not
03:53
hello
i'm trying to sort a list in decrescent order of its sublists' second elements
like
[['AAA', 2500], ['BBB', 1000], ['CCC', 4600]]
and I want sort it like
[['CCC', 4600], ['AAA', 2500], ['BBB', 1000]]
how would I go about doing that?
DSM
DSM
You can use the key and reverse parameters to sort, e.g. seq.sort(key=lambda x: x[1], reverse=True). Type help(sorted) at the console.
He wants it by value of the second element in each sublist not in reverse order @DSM
That's just a coincidence, I think
DSM
DSM
@samrap: that's what the lambda x: x[1] is for.
Ah, overlooked that sorry
hmm
@DSM that's neat
DSM
DSM
04:00
Actually, help(sorted) isn't particularly informative. You can check out the Sorting HOWTO instead, here.
 
1 hour later…
05:02
so this will open example.com in internet explorer, how do i make it open in chrome instead? chrome is default browser

import webbrowser

webbrowser.open("example.com")
@theHeretic -- Looks like you need a controller to guarantee the use of a specific browser.
is that a big complicated mess?
also this is only going to be used on my own computer when i know i have chrome installed.
Hmm ... not sure how messy it will be. If you look at the list of browsers, chrome isn't even on there...
cbg ya'll!
i found a massive code that looked like it was intended to open in default browser and do a ton of other stuff.
but it was a mess.
wait, for some reason www.example.com will open in chrome but example.com is internet explorer...
anyone know why that happens?
06:01
@KDawG -- is cbg shorthand for cabbage?
06:16
@mgilson yup
@mgilson yup :)
I figured it out! I'm so smrt.
@GamesBrainiac where was that page with all those meanings.... so @mgilson could learn a thing a two....
The salad language?
I've seen it before.
I was around back in the day when it was still being invented (though I've forgotten most of it now).
Yea, that was quite a while back.
06:29
(I feel like I should be some old guy sitting in a rocking chair on my porch).
"I remember the days when gas was only 10 cents per gallon!"
"All these kids these days and their cellular telephones!"
@mgilson the good 'ol days.... miss em :(
@mgilson oh, i bet those were the good old days :P
Here, prices are increasing at a rapid rate
cabbage
talk about rapid rates!
 
4 hours later…
10:38
Hello? Is anybody there?
Hey @JonClements! How's life?
I'm working right now, so might not reply immediately
but hi
@jerry hi I'm not really here either - I'm just a figment of your imaginations
cabbage, all!
"I see dead usernames"
10:40
Okay Haley - whatever :)
I guess I'll be Bruce then
Awesome - got those to line up
that one didn't though - boooo
that one did - wooooo hoooooo
(ignore the fact I edited) cough
@inspectorG4dget how's you today?
more well rested than I anticipated. Watched gravity last night and fell into a deep and peaceful slumber. Woke up and went swimming. Came home and napped, lunch, reddit, and now some NeuralNetwork OCR. All in all, can't complain!
How are you? Was there still awesome breakfast tea this morning?
Lots of
and a cold
Oh no! Is it around flu season there now?
yeah... but it's not flu I've got - so that's to be thankful for I guess
whoa yeah
10:46
mind you - I'm doing a pretty damn good impression of a frog at the moment
ribbit! "what does the frog say?"
CROAK!
Should be an interesting conference call in a couple of hours :)
heya @mirko
- "perhaps we should check the connection, you sound like you're coming from the bottom of a well"
- "the connection's fine. I'm waiting for a kiss from a princess"
hey @MirkoCianfarani
asta la vista baby?
nope - wait - that's a different film quote
say'th whaaaat?!
yeah, I was getting really confused
10:50
well - you were only supposed to blow the bloody doors off!
You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? You talkin' to me? Then who the hell else are you talking... you talking to me? Well I'm the only one here. Who the fuck do you think you're talking to? Oh yeah? OK.
Ciao or hola or hi or better cbg!!! @JonClements and @inspectorG4dget excuse for retarded but I have the problem with Windows that it is slow for loaded Office and Firefox
Yup - Windows is generally a problem... it's like a pre-installed virus - you should remove it
<movie trailer voice> This winter, coming to a theater near you. The heart warming tale of a princess, a frog, and a T-101 </ movie trailer voice>
@JonClements Sure, @MirkoCianfarani can try to uninstall it, but I think it comes with a prepackaged rootkit
@inspectorG4dget you're all going to die down here... :(
I didn't get what you meant, @MirkoCianfarani
@JonClements: where's that from?
10:53
Resident Evil I believe
Alice, the computer
oh yeah! It's been a while since I've watched it
err no, hang on, wasn't Alice the main character
are you sure it was Alice the computer and not The Red Queen?
I think that is better format all and reinstall all
the red queen :)
that's it
10:54
Yeah, Alice was a program installed into Mila Jovovich's character
Yes! nuke from orbit!
hey! weird question: If I want to compute my progress towards [badge:outspoken], I could estimate based on chat logs of how many of my chats have been starred, yes?
I don't know that is prepackaged rootkite
I search on google and now I think that you are a hacker :P @inspectorG4dget
@inspectorG4dget errr.... pass?
@Mirko Gadget's fine. It's Penny and Brain you've gotta watch out for...
@MirkoCianfarani: I meant "yes, Windows is a virus, but it is also a rootkit, so it's virulence is invisible to it"
I think you mean Pinky and Brain
I'm a software hacker, not a security hacker
No... Gadget was fairly useless (in a comical sense) - it was Penny (his niece) and Brain (her dog) that did all the real work
Mind you - haven't seen it in over 20 years... so my memory might be a bit off
10:59
one of them is a genius, the other's insane :)
thanks - now I'm going to have that theme tune going around my head
Ahh @JonClements! I was going for a different reference
may as well celebrate it!
They're Pinky and the Brain, yes Pinky and the brain (take it away @JonClements)
/me slaps @inspectorG4dget with a large trout
mmm tasty (wait! It's been cooked, right?)
also, Narf!
woah, that brings back memories of my first visit to IRC
11:03
Indeed
@Jerry thankfully the days of causing netsplits so you could nick collide people off your channel after a bot attack are over :)
I use to love IRC
omg, I never experienced that
though I've seen nick collisions and after a while, it was difficult to say who was really who
Was IRC admin for 2 servers, IRC operator and Channel services admin for a network... also co-wrote it's uworld and chanserv :)
that's pretty nice
"those were such happy times and not so long ago, how I wondered where they'd gone"
that's kinda really awesome @JonClements
Hey guys I did a quick search but couldnt find anything, Is there a room to ask about binary problems? Mantissa's and such
11:07
chanserv is useful me thinks, though could be more if /cs info info could give more information than info
what is the wisdom of the ancients that you seek, @jack?
Also I haven't the experience with IRC, I studied with this for understand how to use the chat in Internet
@inspectorG4dget one of my favs at the moment - not sure if you'll like it though: youtube.com/watch?v=5s-k8Q_40cA
IRC is a first chat( I don't know that I say correct)
@inspectorG4dget I'm just revising for a test and I understand how a 16bit mantissa with the exponent works. But I cannot wrap my head around this quesiton
answer is 4.5
But I'm not sure how
11:09
@Jack what's the "format you've been taught" - you should be somewhat more informed about this question than we are? :)
Yeah thats my problem I've looked through everythign and cannot find it I believe it has somthign to do with en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-precision_floating-point_format
But if it was a 5 bit exponet then surly that would be a 16. something..
@JonClements: country's not my goto music, but I do appreciate it when a friend plays it at a <insert social occasion here>. Amaranthe has my attention of late
@inspectorG4dget "interesting" - it's not as horrible as I was prepping myself for it to be... but I'd prefer Metallica or Maiden myself :)
I like those two songs that you shared!!!! @JonClements
UAO they are sensitive and emotive
@JonClements: oh yeah! this is still one of my favs
11:16
Please not rock's song :P
@MirkoCianfarani: this is metal, which comes from rocks in the earth's crust I suppose
anyway @MirkoCianfarani, what are you listening to these days?
Right... I'll be idling - need to make sure my notes are collated before I croak at people on this conference call
bbiab
ahah good sentence!!!@inspectorG4dget
I listen the songs emotive and sensitive
In this week I listen always Max pezzali and jack johnson
Also I not always listen the songs (music) because I have to study in university
you must love Simon and Garfunkel, then
or even Jethro Tull
I not know those authors :P
Sorry
11:26
I think you might enjoy Sounds of Silence
banana (I say good sopython.com/Salad ) song :P @inspectorG4dget
Melon! @MirkoCianfarani
11:58
Cabbage all!
why am I awake so early?
Could not sleep? What is your time? (1pm here)
It's 7am here and I'm already at work
Trying to get in 12.5 hours today so I won't have to work Friday
Oh, thats superb! I love to be that early at work. I can do something before openspace starts to be busy.
Not that I can usually wake up before 7:30 :-D.
yeah it's nice and quiet around this time, especially since where I work for is more late-oriented, people usually come in around 11-12
12:10
):
I think I will make a game today
I'm not cool...
@Crowz You work in game industry? Or it is that "I have to do this testing and that documentation today, so I will make a game" situation? :-)
@Fenikso nah, work in web app development as a lowly co-op and finished all my work for the week in about 4 hours yesterday
@Crowz Do not tell anyone! Or you will end up like me, doing 160 hours work in 40 hours a week.
12:18
I plan not to, this is nice
 
1 hour later…
13:41
Rhubarb, going home
Have a nice weekend.
I like this book
@Crowz Which one?
@Fenikso WebGL: Up and Running
Can you somehow summarize what is the technology good for?
13:50
It's basically just hardware-accelerated graphics on a web browser
14:27
Cool. Is it similar to OpenGL or completely different? I am kind of scared of all the technologies I would need to grasp to build a modern website using something like this. I would need Python (PHP, ASP.NET, whatever), HTML, CSS, JavaScript, AJAX, SQL, and WebGL? Or am I missing something? :-)
built on top of OpenGL actually, with a very similar syntax, it pairs with JavaScript though
14:47
So one of the two languages which I still consider ugly and refuse to learn :-D.
Well, I consider 3 mainstream languages ugly, but I have already learned one of them.
I think javascript is one of those languages that... hmm... if you don't know it well, it's bad. If you know it really well, it's amazing
so the learning curve really puts people off
Cabbage guys
Whatcha talkin' about?
Well, first Crowz mentioned that he liked the book WebGL: Up and Running. Then Fenikso asked him to somehow summarize what the technology is good for.
Then Crowz replied that it's basically just hardware-accelerated graphics on a web browser, and linked to an example.
Then I stopped paying attention, and you came in and asked what we were talking about. Then I started giving this summary.
it's super awesome, and three.js takes out the ridiculous component of actually writing out matrices
15:12
@Crowz Hmmm. I am going to ping you about some questions about web development in a future. These new technologies look nice, but I did not pay attention to web development for ... 10 years?
Rhubarb, guys, have to go home.
Today I learned about __radd__, a totally rad reverse-adding method
class Fred:
    def __add__(self, other):
        return other + 2
    def __radd__(self, other):
        return other + 2

f = Fred()

print(f + 3)
print(3 + f)
Finally, I can add custom class instances to built-in types.
@Kevin you just learned that? :)
Yeah
IIRC, in C++ this is impossible. You can only handle operators if your class is the first operand.
I guess I assumed that was the case for all languages, which is silly
Yup python is kind enough that if they're not the same type that you get another go :)
I wonder if there's much performance impact? Since the int has to raise a NotImplemented exception before looking for __radd__ in Fred
I think I'll timeit
15:18
__coerce__ was always an interesting one :)
In fact, coerce was a builtin function
import timeit

setup = """
class Fred:
    def __add__(self, other):
        return other + 2
    def __radd__(self, other):
        return other + 2

f = Fred()
"""

print timeit.timeit("f+3", setup)
print timeit.timeit("3+f", setup)
Result:
0.885828440695
0.88423492874
I am surprised. I thought the first would be faster.
int's builtin... so using another custom type would be a fairer test
wb @Jerry
thanks Jon
15:22
import timeit

setup = """
class Fred:
    def __add__(self, other):
        return None
    def __radd__(self, other):
        return None

class Barney:
    pass

f = Fred()
b = Barney()
"""

print timeit.timeit("f+b", setup)
print timeit.timeit("b+f", setup)
Result:
0.847911382262
1.87175801039
This is more in line with my expectations
Where is barney ever used?
oops, I forgot to actually use b
haha
But at least your int got slower for you :)
Edited.
That looks more feasible :)
15:23
Yep, reverse add is a bit slower.
and by a bit I mean "more than double"
Umm... a "bit" of a pay raise would be nice :)
Except my boss is a right twat
__rmul__ should be useful for my home grown Vector class. I like to put scalar coefficients first, and I was previously unable to do so.
I think this is probably the most fun with programming I've ever had
3*v looks more like conventional notation than v*3
Can you also use a method - that'd go a way to avoiding the overhead and maintain a level of readability
v.multiplied_by(3) or something
(perhaps a little verbose - but you get the idea)
15:29
Hmm, I think I prefer 3*v + Vector(1,0) to v.mult(3).plus(Vector(1,0))
I'd say it doesn't hurt to support both
Right
And make sure you've got a Vector.from_iterable class method, so you can v = Vector.from_iterable( (1, 0), (2, 1) ) etc...
(even if it's just return [Vector(*item) for item in args] or something
although, I have a stonking cold
and want to go back to bed
so ignore any advice I give
(just thought I'd give that disclaimer now before I need to rush to the toilet and vomit)
:-(
Well, feel better soon
dilemma now
do I clear up the splash damage now, or go to bed, and do it when I feel a bit better and it's a bit dryer
or will it then require more work
sighs
Mind you - feel better for it
15:39
Crank the AC way up, and use an ice scraper to chip it off later
(this probably won't work)
Feels good to share.... happy Wednesday everyone
@Kevin it's a brilliant plan minus the - don't have AC
@ashish cbg to you too :)
Oh, it's 11/12/13 today
Two hours left today.
So, 10 seconds after 9 minutes past 8 would be cool
Hahaha
then it'd be 08:09:10 11/12/13 or something
15:57
@JonClements Only in countries with sensical date ordering. Nov 12 was a month ago here in 'Murica
o.0
I missed it, damn
On twitter, this is quite a topic.
USA comes first, just like always B-)
India is always far ahead :P
The dislike for a sensible date notation and the hatred of the letter "u" is an interesting trait for a nation :)
15:59
My first tag creation :D

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