last day (113 days later) » 

7:00 PM
Hola
 
About to start ^_^
 
I'll be gone in about 15mins tho :P
 
Ohai!
Welcome to the first JS room meeting.
7
 
Cool, I think we can start, whoever is here is here :)
 
rlemon and zirak are missing...
 
7:03 PM
They were all invited.
 
Hum... what's that about ? (I'm about to go eating)
 
First topic, chosen by the gods of Math.random(): Dealing with users who don't know JS and ask very basic questions.
4
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum seen and starred. This should be in the description of the room
 
Currently, we have the resources bookmark. What else can we do?
 
7:04 PM
@SomeKittens I don't like those users :P
 
@SomeKittens create a room for it?
 
@dystroy They are?
 
@towc I don't think that's a good solution
It introduces unneeded complexity
 
Point them to resources, or just ignore
 
maybe turn the current jsroom into a room for js beginners and others, and get the ecmascript room to be for advanced jsers
 
7:05 PM
I think we should never give them code
2
 
Agree with Benj
 
This might overlap with "room etiquette", but can we have a policy against starring poorly asked questions for the lolz?
 
IMO, politely point them to Google or MDN
 
(FYI: the purpose of this meeting is to generate some community consensus, so discussion so be toward that goal.)
 
Never just hand stuff out
 
7:06 PM
I like tossing them MDN links
 
Giving new users code empowers bad behavior
 
@Retsam Could you elaborate why?
 
You think it may encourage that behaviour?
 
Do not speak unless you have the time and effort to really help the person?
 
7:06 PM
First of all, I have no problems helping those who are interested in learning, and willing to help themselves.
 
Yeah... don't feed the vampires
 
I agree with Retsam on that issue
 
Why not have caprica point people to mdn when they enter the room?
 
@SomeGuy Umm, more of it feels like mockery and I don't think contributes to the atmosphere of the room
 
@Meredith how long do you expect her greeting to eventually get?
 
7:07 PM
But make sure that they iz actually asking a simple question, and you aren't misunderstanding. It's incredibly frustrating when you ask one thing and people think you're stupid and send you a link to LMGTFY or something - this is sometimes caused by the XY problem
 
@Retsam Cool, that makes sense
 
And I usually give general examples, but not concrete copy-pastable code.
 
LMGIFY links are rude, I don't like those.
 
They're banned on SO anyway
 
I think telling people to read a tutorial is better.
 
7:08 PM
IKR
 
We have !!google, that's enough
Not as rude, and still gets the message across.
 
LMGTFY is rude, period
 
What about the Python room rule? Only ask things that are at least as researched for an SO question.
 
however for help idk, sometimes I do provide code. I'm generally better at helping by providing code rather than just an explanation
 
!!google is nice
 
7:08 PM
It's ok to provide code if it's a really good question.
 
Let's not forget that the JS room is not a replacement for the main site
 
@Loktar I think that's fine as long as you do it like @SecondRikudo does
Not copy-pastable
 
I think we should encourage people to ask on StackOverflow, that way knowledge is shared/preserved more. Only if they seek advice or opinion it's beneficial to help them in room.
2
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum what if we require actual SO questions in that case?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum +1 definitely
 
7:09 PM
However, some people (quilty myself) ask in the room because of response times
 
If a question is asked "because it would be closed on the main site", it shouldn't be answered on the chat room either.
 
I disagree @SecondRikudo
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That.
 
If someone is having a problem with code (even if it's code I wrote) and they should be able to figure it out with a bit of googling, I tend not to help them until they do
 
@JanDvorak Some questions work better in chat instead of question on main
 
7:09 PM
@Deep There are exceptions.
 
eh I dont think we should gag anyone from helping
even if its a bad question
 
I think that cap's welcoming message should change to:
*Welcome to the JS room! If you have any questions, make sure that the main site or google don't already have the answers. If you don't know where to start, check [MDN](link). If your question doesn't relate to JS check the [other rooms](link to the room list). Also, I'm a robot made by the [one and only](zirak link), access me through !!help, in [sandbox](link to sandbox)*
7
 
personally if I find it interesting at all, even if bad Ill still help.
 
@Loktar For me it's less about the quality of the question, and more the quality of the person asking.
 
that don't ask if you can ask is confusing
 
7:10 PM
@towc Sounds decent
 
I remember having troubles understanding it
 
@towc Agreed, that could be reworded
 
Please, keep things on topic.
2
 
@SomeKittens Pin
 
:20088007 "bad help" is not help .. it's harm
 
7:12 PM
@Deep you're one of us, but you ask very bad questions here sometimes.
 
@SecondRikudo (Pins are reserved for current topic)
 
Maybe we should add Caprica's welcome message as a topic to discuss
 
Oh yeah.
 
> Dealing with users who don't know JS and ask very basic questions.
 
@towc might be a good idea.
 
7:12 PM
I think in any case something helpful.. well is helpful
we shouldnt try to limit how much someone helps
 
@SomeKittens I thouht that would help with dealing with those users
 
Guilty as charged. HOWEVER. I am trying not to ask stupid questions now that I'm not an 11 year old
 
Well - so can we agree on requiring research (and being able to demonstrate it) from users who ask questions?
 
So do we want to try to limit ourselves to only answering the sort of questions that would be answerable on the main site? Because that makes us a littler redundant; I think.
 
@Loktar I disagree. Don't feed the vampires
 
7:13 PM
@towc That was not directed at you, Cap's message is well within the topic.
 
@Loktar Then it's their own fault if they get pinged twice with every followup question
 
oh, ok
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think that the policy should be as follows:
 
It is analogous to helping a friend in an examination by providing them the written solution...
 
I would rather have the attitude of be nice though..
 
7:13 PM
@Retsam only questions that are good enough to be on the main site, but can't.
Be nice is good, we should be nicer.
 
So to sum up, here's how we deal with users who ask very basic questions:
- Change the welcome message to include more resources
- Encourage people to ask on StackOverflow
- Don't condescend or mock (no starring or using LMGTFY)
- Don't hand out copy-pastable code
6
 
If the question can be asked decently on main, maybe with an example and some research, we encourage that.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Can you give an example?
 
If not, well, it depends on the question then.
 
Anything you guys think we need to change or add to that list?
 
7:13 PM
@SomeGuy PS: I'm taking notes on such things.
 
What about the one liners like "How do I _"
 
@SomeKittens Ah, sweet
 
@SomeGuy I'm afrad the greeting will get too long
 
@Retsam "Does anyone have experience using X (where X is a library, coding pattern etc) in Y (where y is a scenario)? I've been debating it, is it a good idea?"
 
@SomeGuy Yeah, you can do it as well, but don't feel like you have to.
 
7:14 PM
I think @SomeGuy pretty much nailed it, I'd also like the protocol to state (lol, been wanting to say that!) that I think questions should require research
 
I think that makes us stand offish.
> The guys in the js room never help
 
I think there are lots of questions that are appropriate in chat but not on main. Such as "Which is better, setInterval or setTimeout?" As long as it's limited in scope, I don't have a problem with opinion questions
 
We do come across as jerks sometimes
 
@Loktar we help with well researched questions.
 
@Deep Save that for the relevant topic please.
 
7:15 PM
@KendallFrey Agreed
 
I think helping less with fish and more with teaching to fish is a good idea.
2
 
Opinions are more fun to discuss on chat
 
indeed
 
teach to fish
 
@Loktar Yeah; I think there's a tradeoff between "feeding the vampires" and "becoming werewolves", and I worry these policies are going to push us too hard towards the latter.
 
7:16 PM
@SecondRikudo see @Loktar 's message
 
I think "Asking about X in JS room" can count as research, depending on what X is.
 
Some people arent looking to learn JS
 
also, it's easier to explain a concept in real time
 
they could just be a contractor who needs to get X done
and just need a little help
 
@KendallFrey exactly, I think opinions and suggestions belong in chat, it's a good idea.
 
7:16 PM
@Loktar They just wanna meet that deadline -_-
 
@Loktar That's a good point. How should we deal with that?
 
@Loktar Depends on what "little help" is, we can help, or he can hire someone who can help.
 
@KendallFrey Hence why they ask n the room, not on SO
 
I am willing to teach and help, but I will not do anyone's job for them while they get the payment I should be getting.
 
true, I guess the only reason Im voicing any concern is I dont want to feel like I have to walk on egg shells on the type of help I give
 
7:17 PM
@Loktar I don't think we're interested in those though, JS room is not a paid service, it's ok to be helpful (of course) but don't encourage bad behavior and vamping.
 
Some questions are easy enough to go here without prior research, and some stuff is really hard to research
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum definitely but I think we are looking at this a bit differently
 
I have a habit of asking a simplified version of any question in chat before posting on main. Bad idea?
 
none of us are paid, and do this out of our own good will
so its kind of weird to limit the amount of help we are allowed or want to give
 
It is weird, but it's for a purpose.
 
7:18 PM
I think we can all agree on "Help" (as in friendly guidance) is fine in all situations, whereas giving easily copy/pasted code is generally not ok?
 
I guess the rule should be: don't be rude, and don't feed vampires. Giving out code never helps anyone.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum But what purpose, exactly?
 
@Loktar Over time, I've lost the will to help those that don't really want to be helped
 
Keeping the room clean.
 
Like, I don't really think whether or not you feed vampires has any impact on how often vampires show up
 
7:18 PM
@Retsam To improve the quality of the room
 
or, rarely does
 
We don't want the room to be infested with vampires and crap questions.
 
Not encouraging trolls or abuse, not empowering basic talk.
 
@Retsam exactly
 
Giving room for the better discussions, for improving ourselves.
For higher quality topics.
 
7:19 PM
also, anything we should do about users who can barely talk english? Just encouraging them to try to talk better didn't seem to help in many cases
 
@Retsam If vampires find food, they will return to feed
3
 
I don't want to read discussions about querySelectorAll returning a NodeList every single day, we all know that.
 
Basically that
It may not discourage new vampires
 
or ppl who talk as they were txting
 
It will also limit discussion with existing ones.
 
7:19 PM
But it probably will discourage the recurring ones
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum but not everyone does, there are people new to JS every day, we arent an advanced room imo
 
OK... giving out code to hard questions (the kind one of us would ask) is fine
 
we are more of a general JS room right?
 
@towc Those are the worst
 
@Loktar toss them links
 
7:19 PM
In the interest of time, can we boil this down to: "Give guidance, not code"?
3
 
Suggestion: We move messages of users who don't use proper English if they don't fix them.
 
Could we build a FAQ section to address commonly asked questions?
 
what is wrong with multiple rooms for javascript according to skill level? And commands in caprica like !!promote !!demote (to next level) etc.?
 
Also, don't be a dick
 
7:20 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum +1
 
@Retsam That's a different topic on today's roster.
 
@SomeKittens almost, I don't think we should give guidance to people who didn't do research.
 
@AwalGarg not a fan
 
@SomeKittens Oops, my bad.
 
@Retsam you could start it, sure.
 
7:20 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum they might be unable to fix them
 
@Loktar shouldn't we be?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum "Guidance" can be "You should do research on [MDN](liiink)"
 
This is a chat room after all, not a game
 
Shouldn't we strive to the harder, more advnaced topics?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I'd say, guidance means "link" here
 
7:21 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum oh idk, I wouldnt mind it at all
 
I mean, some may just not know the grammar, but I completely agree on who speedchats
 
@SomeKittens if that's guidance - sure.
 
I just assume the current JS room is the catch all for JS, so beginners - advanced
 
Is anyone here actually interested in the basic topics and discussion?
It can be a catch-all, and we should be nice and point newbies to reseources
 
For basic questions; link. Leave the discussion for more complicated ones
 
7:21 PM
@KendallFrey maybe a little gamification could prove fruitful?
 
I just don't think we should tutor them, that's all.
 
Sound good?
 
I'm willing to toss links to the beginners
 
Sounds good to me.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I don't mind tutoring
 
7:21 PM
Excellent!
 
but.. what if we want to tutor?
 
what about foreigners w/ bad english
 
But like you said, teaching to fish, not giving out fish.
 
Thats what I guess Im confused about, we all want to help in our own ways
 
@Loktar separated room?
 
7:22 PM
@AwalGarg I already have enough chat rooms I lurk in, I don't need more
 
@Deep they should walk the extra mile
 
The best way to tutor is to write a tutorial
 
@Loktar Teach to fish, don't give fish. So long as you're not giving fish, it's fine.
 
@Deep Stack Overflow is an English site and so is chat.
 
7:22 PM
Eh I learn by being given fish honestly.
Looking at code is so much more beneficial to me
 
Right, have we concluded this topic?
 
If we do split into an advanced and beginner room, I'll still have to be in both. I just don't like the complicatedness of that
 
@Loktar looking at code isn't being given fish.
 
@Loktar We're not talking about that
 
@Loktar While you have a good point, we do need to move on. Bring it up for the December meeting?
 
7:23 PM
maybe give only pseudo code? Which can be translated to proper code, with a lil effort...
 
Yeah, but is broken english, if you aren't completely fluent acceptable compared to i wnt u to la3rn me bettr?
 
I wouldn't split
 
Next topic: The different derivative rooms.
5
 
@Loktar I'm all for 'show me the code', but show people short generic examples of the concept, not their code with the bug fix.
 
We're talking about people who can't research enough to find the code themselves
 
7:23 PM
Giving code is fine, it's the copypasta code that's the problem
 
I'm ok with the derivative rooms.
 
I'm iffy on derivative rooms.
 
@SecondRikudo when I was looking for italian resources and sites like SO because my english was nowhere near as good as this I couldn't find anything, so you can't always blame them
 
I think ECMAScript is kind of pointless now, the experiment with owners is gone and so is Zigi from the JS room
4
 
7:24 PM
What's a derivative room exactly ?
 
I agree.
 
@dystroy this
 
I think MIAOU is good to have and has proven very valuable recently.
 
@dystroy A room that came because of another one
 
I'd stick with one room only
 
7:24 PM
i.e. it was derived from another
 
@dystroy ECMAScript is derivative, JS is integral
 
yeah one room seems much better, the other rooms never stay very active
 
@dystroy JS/ECMA/Miaou
 
@dystroy rooms with users from the JS room only not the JS Room, JS in miaou and ECMAScript and so on.
 
I agree. One room to rule them all.
 
7:24 PM
+1 one room
 
I don't like having a lot of rooms
 
I think there is a consensus here, we should be using JS and have miaou for times of danger.
2
 
hey @zirak
 
I can of like having the ES room as a way for room regulars to keep up with each other
 
Well then, that kinda concludes that :D
 
7:25 PM
we have IRC as well
 
\o/ Zirak came!
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Danger or PMs
 
Having separate rooms for hot topics is fine, though
 
((sorry for my lateness, will try to read up))
 
irc is for loke rlemon and me
 
7:25 PM
lol basically.
 
@Loktar I haven't gone to that in a while
 
@FlorianMargaine (ahem)
 
Yeah if you want to split a topic into a room, go for it, but it has to be temporary
 
@Deep as much as I love silliness, there's a time and place.
 
Sorry. Couldn't help it.
 
7:26 PM
Yeah, can I reiterate that I think we should be cautious about being too quick to migrate away from the JS room?
 
I'd prefer the temp rooms in helping users actually, maybe Ill start doing that if the discussion is going to go a bit long when helping an individual user.
 
I opened a temp room to help a user a little while ago and it worked pretty well
 
@Zirak all you need to know is this:
13 mins ago, by Some Guy
So to sum up, here's how we deal with users who ask very basic questions:
- Change the welcome message to include more resources
- Encourage people to ask on StackOverflow
- Don't condescend or mock (no starring or using LMGTFY)
- Don't hand out copy-pastable code
 
I don't have a problem with other people starting a new room with a user if they're having an in-depth topical discussion
 
@Loktar That sounds totally reasonable. That's what they're there for.
 
7:26 PM
This community exists because of the JS room; and I think the more we start moving the "community" to another room, the more the community is going to stagnate.
 
@Meredith it's worse when they open a room
 
@Zirak the general conclusion from the first topic was "Give guidance, not code"
 
@Loktar oh yeah, I do that a lot (start a room with just one user).
 
One on one rooms are fine
 
@Retsam yep, I joined the JS room for JS, not the people in it (sry giuse)
 
7:27 PM
Conclusion: Keep the JS room central to everything, splitting off is ok for PMs, helping new users, and the like.
6
 
We ready for the next topic?
 
@SomeKittens Yes, let's move on.
 
Yup
 
7:27 PM
o/
 
\o (not sure why)
 
Are freaky room titles and tags good?
 
Topic: The rules page. @rlemon created it for us, how should we maintain it?
4
 
@SomeKittens could we ditch it?
 
How is it currently maintained?
 
7:28 PM
^
 
it's not useful
2
 
I think it's ok, not much to do there.
 
@FlorianMargaine ^ +1
 
@SomeKittens it looks pretty decent for me. Also, we should wait for rlemon for it
 
I say rescue it
 
7:29 PM
@SomeKittens It's one of those things which I really want to redo at one point...
 
Is it on GitHub somewhere?
 
Then go ahead and redo it @Zirak :P
 
The main page shouldn't be long or windy
 
I suggest we amend it with any necessary changes after these meetings
 
I think it's better if it is there than if it isn't
 
7:29 PM
I think the idea of a rules page is a very good idea.
 
oh, there are no FAQs
 
The resource list could be expanded
 
@SecondRikudo yeah
 
otherwise it's fine
 
replace it with blog.js
 
7:29 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum But things to do ;-;
 
I think it's too long.
 
We could all actually try to contribute to it
 
honestly the only rule that matters is "Don't be a dick." We could put that in the topic ~~
 
@SecondRikudo Yeah, it's on Github
 
If it's not on Github, I think that'd be a good idea; so amendments and revisions can be submitted as Pull Requests.
 
I think the current rules page is ok
 
rules are fine, but I'd add more resources
 
I doubt anyone reads that.
2
 
I think it's okay. We can all go over it and add / remove if we feel the need to
 
Yeah, add more resources, rules could use a tune up but it's generally fine.
@SecondRikudo Also that.
 
7:30 PM
next topic?
 
I think we should keep it professional personally
remove swearing, ect.
 
in JavaScript , Sep 26 at 11:57, by Florian Margaine
honestly the rules can be summed up to: don't be a dick
 
to some people its off putting (I personally don't care)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum It needs a very short, very concise 4-5 lines of FAQ
 
Or "be nice"
 
7:31 PM
and a link to the expended one
 
@SecondRikudo I've learned previously the value of a rules page isn't so that people read it, but so that you can point them at it when they break them.
 
It should just start with a giant heading saying "Don't be a dick", maybe with a link to Dudeism, followed by a short list of room etiquette (being ignored isn't a sign you're stupid, if you're kicked don't be a bitch, etc), followed by chat FAQ (formatting, sending messages), and then a list of resources.
 
@SecondRikudo sure
 
Otherwise people break rules and say "well it's not my fault, how was I supposed to know that was against the rules?"
 
But that's a different discussion
 
7:31 PM
@Zirak I don't think I agree with the "dudeism" part
 
Screw Comcast with a rusty spoon
 
But people are dicks in the JS room all the time?
 
So for the next meeting maybe
 
@Loktar Discussion is on the rules page, not the contents.
 
@SomeGuy Then sans the dudeism link, just the "Don't b a dick"
 
7:31 PM
How will any of this be inforced?
 
@Loktar Sometimes I need to swear to get my point across, but it's probably a good idea to minimize it
 
Might give off a "brogrammer" vibe
 
@RonniSkansing don't think so
 
Be nice > don't be a dick
 
@SomeKittens ah well if we keep it thats just my opinion
 
7:32 PM
@RonniSkansing It's not laws, it's etiquette
3
 
@RonniSkansing they'll get shouted at... doesn't usually work on the internet but if needed they could be muted, which already happens
 
the verbiage should be more professional is all.
 
I think having a rules page is okay
 
yeah, they are pseudo-rules
 
The contents could be debated on later
 
7:33 PM
Conclusion: The rules page should be kept, but updated with new info (such as conclusions from this meeting)
4
 
Yeah.. you can't codify good behavior
 
@Meredith Honestly, I don't really care if people aren't that nice as long as they're helpful or resourceful. They just have to not be dicks.
 
@SomeKittens wait a sec
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum waiting
 
First draft?
- Be nice. Don't say anything you shouldn't say to someone in person in the room.
- Discussion is mostly on topic, we might discuss things that are not JS from time to time.
- Don't ask to ask questions, just ask them! Please note that you're expected to research questions before asking them. Also - consider posting your question on StackOverflow first.
- Don't @ping room regular users unless you're sure it's appropriate. If you're new, don't @ping users unless spoken to - doing so is considered rude.
4
Something like that?
 
7:34 PM
That's nearly pinpoint
 
errr
we're not in order, are we?
 
"from time to time" is a bit of an understatement
 
rule 1: don't respect the rules
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum without the game
 
@KendallFrey lol what I was thinking
the rest is great though
 
7:35 PM
Quick Question: If no-ones posted in the room for hours, is it ok to ping someone
 
@KendallFrey this is for new users
 
@Deep No.
 
> Don't ask to ask questions
This isn't worded very clearly
 
@Deep wut
 
@Deep it's ok to ping people if you know them.
 
7:35 PM
- Read the rules. Obviously this is redundant. However we reserve the right to [censored] people who ignore this rule
 
@Deep No
 
@Meredith we've been using it for a while.
 
I like all of these
 
@Meredith it's also pretty unnecessary
 
Yeah but we should change it
 
7:35 PM
@Meredith How'd you word it differently?
 
Again, this isn't about the content of the rules page, but the existence and maintenance.
 
> Don't ask if you can ask a question
Better?
 
Don't ask if you can ask a question
 
"don't ask if someone is around, just ask your question"
 
pretty much
 
7:36 PM
If no one has anything further to say, we'll move on.
 
@SomeKittens isn't this page the point 7?
 
So, let's move on
 
@SomeKittens yeah, @SecondRikudo said he thinks it should be smaller and I agreed with an example suggestion.
 
oh, so kinda what's in the bot's welcome message
 
@SomeGuy +1
 
7:36 PM
should anything be in there about spamming/reasking questions if no one answers fast enough or no?
 
I think we can move on.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum will you PR for the rules page?
 
True. A rate limit should be given
 
(there's still this to mention. Who will update the page?)
 
@FlorianMargaine sure, but I'll do it after @SomeKittens makes a summary of this and we'll revise the short form together.
 
7:37 PM
Sounds good
 
@FlorianMargaine I say the current meeting moderator can do it or delegate it as he sees fit
 
@KendallFrey Sounds good
 
sound of a hammer hitting a wooden desk
 
OW!
 
7:38 PM
(I'm experiencing network issues)
 
(that wasn't a wooden desk)
 
what's the next topic?
 
network issues, I suppose
 
@JanDvorak meh, you weren't going to bear/bare children anyway.
 
@SomeKittens appoint another caretaker?
 
7:39 PM
@Zirak It's bear. Bare children is something completely unrelated
 
Topic: How are owners chosen, what responsibilities does it have, and if someone is lacking on their responsibilities should they be owner?
6
 
Owners are janitors.
 
Owners should be more active in moderating the room and enforcing the etiquette.
 
@SomeKittens did they ever lack responsability?
 
The way they've been chosen so far seems fine
 
7:39 PM
Ownership should be removed if you ownership against the greater good of the community
 
Chosen: Owners are room regulars who help ward off annoyances and help preserve the sanity
 
Owners should be those who are willing to moderate the room (move messages, be the voice of reason)
 
I think they should be chosen at these meetings
2
 
@towc depeands on what their responsibillities are
 
Also, I think we have enough owners atm.
2
 
7:40 PM
Owners should contribute to maintaining the quality of the room though moderation, but we can't have a quota of moved messages or anything like that
 
maybe a list is submitted of a potential new owner
and people say yay/nay
 
I'm with Loktar, choosing them together is a good idea.
 
same with removing imo
unless that seems too weird?
 
Also a good idea.
 
Anonymous voting would be good
 
7:40 PM
^ (just because I remember Zirak loves when I do that)
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum democracy on the internet? won't work :P
 
Maybe first a discussion with the owner in question if they aren't up to standards
 
@towc It's working today
 
Right, anonymous voting to remove or add owners
 
can we also have votes to remove them?
 
7:41 PM
umm, do mods know of this meeting? Should they be invited here, if they aren't already?
 
If you're considering removing someone, you should speak to them privately first
 
if they continue, a vote at the meeting?
 
@AwalGarg They've got nothing to do with it
 
he sucks
 
Responsibilities being: janitor work, improving the community
 
7:41 PM
ok
 
On topic, please.
 
@FlorianMargaine That's a reason to keep him close
 
@Loktar I don't think we should band together to approach a room owner, that will create fear like a cornered animal
 
@Zirak ... true.
 
Against bureaucratising it. If someone just makes someone else an owner without consultation and they're not a jerk, it should probably stand.
 
7:42 PM
@Loktar Not a tribunal
 
@KendallFrey nah, maybe one or two people just let them know I mean
 
yeah
 
Maybe a poll?
 
polls are easy to cheat on.
 
It shouldn't be too much fanfare...do we seem to have problems with where we are now?
 
7:42 PM
Agreement of two or three if unsure?
 
@Zirak Not atm imo
 
Let's try this: does anyone disagree with @Loktar 's suggestion?
 
Too many inactives or too many problems (uncovered timezones maybe)?
 
nope
 
what's @Loktar's suggestion?
 
7:43 PM
I don't think we need polls
 
Another suggestion - if you don't go to the room for a month (and don't explain it prior to departing). Your RO status is void.
 
^ definitely
 
@FlorianMargaine appoint them at meetings.
 
@FlorianMargaine Addition / removal of owners is decided at these meetings by vote
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I think these rules are pointless.
 
7:43 PM
@BenjaminGruenbaum Not much of use, tbh
 
I'm pretty sure that the owners we currently have are completely fine: they know how to relate to people, there usually is at least one always online, covering all timezones and all cases. Adding new ones will probably just end in getting the community messier
 
Would it be too much overhead to have lists for nominated new and removed ROs to vote on at these meetings?
 
I'm a little late sorry
 
If it makes sense for someone to be an owner, because he's willing to moderate the room and is generally the voice of reason, he should be a room owner.
 
7:44 PM
this all seems like bureaucracy...
 
Like Raynos was an owner for 2+ years after he was gone.
 
the lemon is here!
 
If not, he should not.
 
@rlemon Yaaay
 
Room owners are mini moderators, and we should treat them as such.
 
7:44 PM
afk reading transcript quickly.
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum That's fine, as long as they don't have to re-earn it
 
The overall point is, people shouldnt just decide one off cases of whos an owner
it should be a room decision
the same with removing people
imo anyway.
 
i.e. spend a year in here just to get RO back
 
Conclusion: Room owners are added/removed at the monthly meeting.
Room owners should keep the discussion in the JS room quality (Good SNR).
3
 
@Loktar agreed.
 
7:45 PM
unanimous decision among two or three seems sufficient
 
Next topic?
 
@SomeKittens pretty fair
 
fine then
 
Before we move on...
 
7:45 PM
Topic: Room atmosphere. Some people think it has deteriorated, some think it is fine.
5
 
So we've had a secret agreement that there'll be more of these meetings
 
ok then
 
I assumed the meetings were monthly @Zirak
 
Fair warning: I'm going to be pretty itchy on the "move message" trigger finger for this one.
 
I think it's fine
 
7:45 PM
I don't like immature jokes
 
@SomeKittens I think it has gotten a lot better over the last two weeks.
 
@JanDvorak :(
 
but yeah, it sucked a lot over the last few months
 
@Zirak Yes, we've secretly had a gist pinned for a while.
 
7:46 PM
Does this tie in with the "We sound like jerks sometimes"?
 
This meeting should help improve it
 
@FlorianMargaine Elaborate, please?
 
@SomeKittens It's...weird. Especially on weekends.
 
JS room seems to have a higher turnover of occasional visitors than my other point of reference, the C# chat
 
seems like the room members woke up and remembered that they were on SO
 
7:47 PM
Yeah, I think the room atmosphere is fine recently and we can discuss it at the next meeting.
 
If there are a number of active users who aren't regulars, the in-jokes should be set aside as a rule
 
@Deep shut up! I never sound like a jerk! XD
 
@TomW Probably because JS is a popular and noob-friendly language
 
@Zirak yeah, it's weird sometimes on weekends.
 
in-jokes and banter fine if the likelihood of someone who won't get the context seeing it is low
 
7:47 PM
@towc Of course not. You're special
 
weekends?
it's dead on sundays
 
Also, I think other steps like active discussions on more advanced topics are good.
 
@TomW are in jokes currently a problem?
 
@Deep :D
 
@Loktar I daresay there are some that would be disconcerting, yes
 
7:48 PM
:)

I think that injokes can be seen as moking sometimes
 
ok kinda caught up
 
Can I raise a question before we move on?
 
Go ahead
 
Let's just say we should be careful around non-regulars
 
Don't ask to ask :P
 
7:49 PM
something that helped imho: we're all pretty well versed in js, so we don't have much to talk about. The monthly challenge helped with that, as it's a topic that came out quite often recently.
 
@JanDvorak Sounds good
 
isn't it an adulthood need to make nsfk jokes sometimes? I think they're fine
 
and it's programming-related (duh)
 
Do we need to cover stuff like -ism?
 
Sometimes, some discussion is going on... and a user comes, asks a question, which could be good, but it is lost in the speed of messages... how to deal with this?
 
7:49 PM
I think the contributors thing would help with that too, as we could use the js room to coordinate ourselves, and help each other on a project
 
[race|gender|orientation|whatever]
 
adulthood doesn't mean I like NSFW jokes
 
It's fine to use bad language or curse words - if they're not attacking a specific user or really offensive.
 
@TomW All for diversity of all types
 
@AwalGarg I don't think the message is "lost" rather "ignored" because there is something more interesting
 
7:50 PM
I haven't seen that sort of thing being a problem, but just wondering
 
@TomW There's a problem with that?
 
@TomW That generally hasn't been much of a problem
 
I'm not real comfortable with nsfw jokes
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum I disagree.
 
@AwalGarg that's just life on the internet
 
7:50 PM
@TomW no, if it hasnt been a problem no reason to bring it up
 
I think we should remain as professional as possible.
 
@Meredith To a point where you'd want the room to try to keep it down?
 
@rlemon yeah... that more interesting thing is not always more constructive...
 
@SecondRikudo do you?
 
I mean jokes/banter that touch those topics. I don't think I brought up a different topic by saying that, did I?
 
7:50 PM
Oh, for NSFW images. No oneboxing that, right? Just common courtesy.
 
@SomeGuy Yes
 
What about religion? This has generated loud discussions several times, and I find it distracting
 
definitely
 
I dont think we should have nsfw images at all. even unboxed.
 
7:51 PM
@rlemon I do
 
@SomeGuy I mean, it's a public chatroom on a site that's supposed to be sfw
 
@AwalGarg but that implies the person expects answers?
 
I don't mind religious debate
 
@AwalGarg Natural. If gets noticed by people because they're reading the chat, it's just less interesting, and we only discuss things which interest us.
 
@SecondRikudo cool, I never made the claim. you did
 
7:51 PM
@SecondRikudo that's impressive
 
@KendallFrey Ask to move to a separate room?
 
@KendallFrey I vote it be off topic.
if someone wants to start a new room for it, by all means
 
Sounds good
 
@JanDvorak It an get annoying in a busy room
 
ok
 
7:51 PM
I'm totally fine with in being in another room
 
wait what about NSFW content? Are we allowing it?
 
Ping me on next topic
 
That seems highly unprofessional.
 
I'd prefer that we didn't.
 
and yeah, there are dedicated rooms for religion... move those messages there, maybe
 
7:52 PM
images un-boxed tagged I say is "okay" depending on the context.
 
Yeah no nsfw content
 
and people under 18 frequent the rooms.
 
I agree with @Loktar , if it's too offensive don't link to if, it you do add a big warning
 
@AwalGarg no, there aren't
 
I think the occasional WTF is fine
 
7:52 PM
@Loktar NSFW is highly subjective, but the kind of stuff that has shown up in some rooms would cause problems for me at work
I'm chill with it at home, but work is a practical matter
 
I mean, porn isn't ever acceptable. but if is border-line and tagged I don't see a BIG deal about it
 
doesn't offend me
 
The key point is "occasional"
 
@FlorianMargaine there definitely are
 
Yeah definitely @TomW
 
7:52 PM
@FlorianMargaine There are, not on chat.so, on chat.se
 
knowing things is one of them, lead by m59
 
I don't mind NSFW content, as long as it's appropriately hidden behind a link with a tag
 
^
 
I personally dont
however it seems not to have a place on the SO chat, if we are keeping things professional.
 
"I don't mind" meaning "I enjoy"
 
7:53 PM
@KendallFrey Agree
Let's conclude with that?
 
but yea, showing it then quickly unboxing it defeats the purpose
 
if you have to tag something nsfw.. maybe you shouldnt post it.
 
@Loktar Depends on what it is. For example, if I post a screenshot of my new awesome layout, and my wallpaper is 40 scantily clad women, then I'll post and tag it as nsfw. But I won't post gotase.
 
@rlemon Don't do that
 
and that rebecaa.blackfriday thing irritates me a lot
 
7:53 PM
^ I love it
 
some people do that @KendallFrey
 
@KendallFrey I think that chat.so is not the place for NSFW content.
 
@AwalGarg O.o its one link on Friday.
 
@AwalGarg Just jokes. I don't mind them
 
does SO chat support conditional filtering of oneboxes, for example?
 
7:54 PM
maybe do [NSFW](link to image/site) as a convention?
 
Get rid of Rebecca Black
 
@rlemon I try not to anymore :P
 
If we allow NSFW we can allow Rebecca Black.
 
if one was to enter [ nsfw ] [text] (url)
 
@TomW No, but we can make an extension for that
 
7:54 PM
no way
 
@towc any kind of warning is fine
 
rebecca black foreva
 
On top of that, posting random nsfw pictures is meh
 
not that I have a say in what should not be posted... just stating myself
 
Long Tired Jokes !== NSFW
 
7:54 PM
@towc what he said
 
Current room atmosphere has improved from the previous low
More active discussions on advanced topics would be good
Be careful around overuse of injokes.
Religion is off-topic, create a new room
NSFW should be *never* be oneboxed and is generally discouraged. One should not post NSFW for the sake of NSFW.
3
 
@towc If only we had some
 
Wait, what kind of NSFW are we on about here?
 
Conclusion ^^
 
+1
 
7:54 PM
@Deep probably anything that isn't safe for anyone's work
 
I don't like the ban on religion
 
so images or curses?
 
@SomeKittens sounds good.
 
porn/language/drugs/gore <- NSFW IMO . Rebecca black song <- annoying but only that. if you don't like it dont click it? you know what it is.
 
@JanDvorak Not a ban, a "move discussion"
 
7:55 PM
unless you live in some fundamentalist dictatorship or something
 
@rlemon lol exactly
 
@rlemon Not always
 
@JanDvorak Anything under 5 messages is fine by me, but usually it becomes a war
 
and if you do, you ought not to be excluded. There must be a line however
 
@rlemon you know... it is "hidden" behind links
 
7:55 PM
@JanDvorak Extended religious discussions should be held in a dedicated room.
 
absolutely terrible
 
^ better?
 
@SomeGuy you seem to believe people will actually join the room
 
People often disguise it (as seen yesterday with the HALF LIFE 3 IS OUT) link
 
@JanDvorak neither do i personally.
 
7:55 PM
"hidden behind link" which link to rebecca.blackfriday
 
@JanDvorak Involved parties will. That's the point
 
@JanDvorak If they're in that discussion, then yes
 
@SomeKittens unless the room is otherwise silent?
 
look at urls before clicking links. for your own good.
 
Whoever wants to discuss it can do so
 
7:56 PM
@rlemon url shortener
 
@JanDvorak Usually the discussion is between 2 or 3 people, not the whole room
 
@rlemon short urls...
 
@rlemon It was hidden behind a bitly.
 
pleading guilty
but it's a joke anyway
 
then complain about short url hiding
 
7:56 PM
very very much irritating
 
because I can do that to any link.
 
If we ban rebecca black, ban the game, and poop slide.. ect.
 
@rlemon youtu.be/hash doesn't tell me much
 
We're not banning jokes. The point is also to have a social community
4
 
^
 
7:56 PM
@JanDvorak that
 
@JanDvorak I've learned to recognize the rickroll hash
 
I'm all for banning poopslide
 
@SomeKittens Next topic?
 
meh, RB ("yes, they deserve an acronym!") is harmless. Annoying, but it fits the room atmosphere.
2
 
@JanDvorak no, that's culture
 
7:57 PM
NEVER
 
It's old
 
how is that video a joke, I still don't get that..
 
poopslide must stay
 
I don't even understand what that video is about
 
@SomeGuy working on it
 
7:57 PM
Can we at least remove artisticpoop?
 
it is just a video which was greatly disliked on youtube
 
I think there's only 2 left
 
humor has been a long running part of our community - see "stop" -> "HAMMERTIME"
 
because it sucks as a song
 
Monthly Challenge and Private Discussion
 
7:58 PM
which is 100% pointless noise but it is fun.
 
^ I want that fixed
 
HAMMERTIME!
 
Also challenge @SomeGuy
 
It can get old, too
 
@rlemon I don't think it is fun...
 
7:58 PM
@SomeGuy I think we've already covered private discussion.
 
@AwalGarg I think it is fun. But is it about having fun?
 
@BenjaminGruenbaum Thanks, that's what I meant
 
Topic: Monthly challenge. How has it been so far? What can we do better? What do you want to see?
4
 
"not fun" and "that is so bothersome I don't want the people who do have fun with it to have fun with it" is a very big line to cross
 
Speaking of long-running jokes, where is Kirsty? Scared away by a long-running joke?
 
7:59 PM
from what I gathered, she enjoyed the joke (she half fueled it)
 
I'd like if monthly challenges started on the 1st and ended on the last day of the month. We can vote on them while one is still on
 
She is/was a vamp.
 
I actually did have a discussion with her if it bothered her.
 

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