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6:00 PM
@Kevin that works too. Loved that in Worms.
 
@JakeSteffan Ok, in that case subclasses make sense
 
Seen a fun world? Make a not of its code.
 
Okay cool thanks, I wasn't sure if I should or not.
 
@JakeSteffan in that case you can also practice abstract base classes (enforcing all tree types to specify resources, and preventing a generic Tree from being instantiated)
 
Eh, ABCs don't really work well with class attributes
 
6:02 PM
I'm familiar with abstraction, kinda lol.
 
@Aran-Fey Hmm, fair enough. Perhaps we can shoehorn properties in there...
 
The problem with all of this guys is that...since I'm a psycho
Not only do I want to do this with trees, but also rocks, plants, mushrooms, etc. LOL
 
@JakeSteffan that's not a psycho thing
 
On the general topic of using classes to define various kinds of game entities... I've read design articles from a game dev or three, who say a component-based system tends to be a better fit. Apparently a lot of Unity games are quite component-based.
 
A component based system?
 
6:05 PM
This is exactly what's difficult about programming: The best way to write your code depends on what exactly your program needs to do. If you discover a new requirement, well, you'll probably have to rewrite some of your code. And the problem is that you never know all the requirements, so you never know how you should write the code.
 
That reminds me, @JakeSteffan: you should learn and start using a version control system (I strongly recommend git).
it's easy to learn the very basics which can protect you from losing your work, and being able to look back to past versions with ease
 
Okay I will look into git I've been told that once in a video before thanks.
 
this might be a controversial recommendation here at your stage
 
Yeah I just looked up this component based system, so it looks like it's better than OOP for this type of game.
 
To be honest, I don't know much about component-based design. The elevator pitch is, "it prioritizes composition over inheritance"
 
6:08 PM
Maybe this belongs in the normal SO site
 
@JakeSteffan If you do decide to take up git, I recommend reading The Git Parable for the basic philosophy, and then learngitbranching.js.org to learn the basics in a puzzle game.
 
I'm working on a smarter binarization method for my OCR project.

I currently grayscale the image, then I count all unique brightness values to get a relative brightness range for the image. So, if the image is generally darker, the background can still be set as the "white" value.

This results in a sort of histogram looking bar chart with lots of bright pixels, and a few darker values with a large count.

Does anyone have a recommendation on a method to pick a point to separate the whites from blacks based off this information?
 
@Cyrus definitely not for the main site
 
I just had a look at the wikipedia article for component-based design and as far as I can tell it's just some vague mumbo-jumbo that doesn't really mean anything?
 
@Cyrus I would try searching along the lines of "image levels contrast enhancement"
 
6:11 PM
It also looks like mumbo jumbo to me. But on the other hand, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/… lists both Unity and Unreal Engine as component-based tech. These are popular game engines that really have been used to create bona fide games, so they can't be 100% marketing fluff.
 
I will save those in my notes thanks Andras.
 
The secret to staying a popular game engine: don't tell others your actual secret ;)
 
For the sake of my own sanity I'm just going to pretend I didn't hear anything about component based design and stick with OOP haha.
 
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Ok, I'll give it a go. Most of the solutions I've tried have been quite poor, so I thought I'd give it a go
 
I have used both for rudimentary projects, and the style they seem to encourage is, "make a bunch of interfaces with names like '[verb]able', and create real game objects by gluing them together"
 
6:12 PM
@Aran-Fey The article looks like it's describing microservices
 
It does, and I don't know how you would build a game based on microservices
 
@Cyrus the first duckduckgo search hit is eeweb.engineering.nyu.edu/~yao/EL5123/… which is a 46-slide lecture note that includes histogram equalization, the one contrast enhancement strategy I've heard of (as an image processing layman)
 
Is a class a microservice/component? Or a function? Or a module?
 
@Aran-Fey Sounds like all of the above. Perhaps it is microservice philosophy applied generally to software
 
docs.unity3d.com/Manual/class-GameObject.html is rather technical, but it talks about how GameObjects and Components can actually be used to do actually interesting things. You don't have to imagine how it might be useful by looking at fake "Duck inherits from Quackable" examples
 
6:16 PM
Anyway, I'll go and let my "hands" microservice do the "dishes" task for a while
 
I read the Parable, it makes sense. I'm going to go practice some more code now guys. Thanks a lot of the valuable help.
 
"GameObjects are the building blocks for scenes in Unity, and act as a container for functional components which determine how the GameObject looks, and what the GameObject does"... Yep, sounds like what I was doing at the time
 
@Cyrus Sorry, I don't know much about OCR, but I think you're on the right track. A common technique to find the threshold you want is to find the "elbow" or "knee" of the histogram. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knee_of_a_curve
 
@PM2Ring This article looks helpful. Thanks!
If it comes to it, I can always train an AI model on this kind of data
 
6:24 PM
If you're doing this semi-manually, eg in Gimp, you can just "eyeball" where the knee is in the histogram, and adjust the slider until the threshold gives a nice result. Writing code to do that automatically is a little harder. ;) Especially if you're trying to isolate text from a complicated background.
 
Doing OCR manually would defeat the purpose a bit, would it not?
I guess it could be just the one page or something
 
@PM2Ring This tool is going to be completely automatic
It might be best for accuracy if I create an OpenCV tool to manually adjust the contrast, and then export the histogram and result for AI training
 
6:42 PM
@Cyrus Sounds good.
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Sure. But doing it manually on various input images gives you an idea of what you need to tell your automatic software to do. And if you have a whole bunch of similar images, the manual process can be a useful way to get parameters appropriate for that data set, which you then feed into your automatic software.
 
to be fair I wouldn't have thought to throw ML at this... then again I generally don't think that with problems
 
The best OCR certainly uses ML. Large amounts of data related to OCR has been gathered from captchas.
 
yes, but not for the contrast enhancement phase...
 
Fair point. :)
 
7:00 PM
hi everyone
anyone here have experience with opencv?
 
@DeepakVerma hello. You should ask your question, and if anyone around can help, they can respond (now or eventually when they read your message).
 
okay
 
@DeepakVerma please edit the message, remove the backticks, and press the "fixed font" button to the right of the edit box
 
I have this code, my video has 937 frames, 31 seconds video - 30fps. But i want to run it parallelly using multiprocessing
 
7:05 PM
sorry, i didn't notice the multi-line code guideline
 
It's alright. I think you're out of time to edit that message. I'll remove it and you can post it again with proper formatting.
 
cap = cv2.VideoCapture(file_name)
poses = []
while cap.isOpened():
    ret, img = cap.read()
    if ret == False:
        break
    img.flags.writeable = False
    imgRGB = cv2.cvtColor(img, cv2.COLOR_BGR2RGB)
    results = video_pose.process(imgRGB)
 
so, I want to run this process two times, first time with frames 0,450 or so, second time 450 till end
    cap = cv2.VideoCapture(file_name)
    poses = []
    while cap.isOpened():
        ret, img = cap.read()
        if ret == False:
            break
        img.flags.writeable = False
        imgRGB = cv2.cvtColor(img, cv2.COLOR_BGR2RGB)
        results = video_pose.process(imgRGB)
        pose1=[]
        # print(results.pose_landmarks)
        if results.pose_landmarks:

            mp_draw.draw_landmarks(img, results.pose_landmarks, mp_pose.POSE_CONNECTIONS)
            for id, lm in enumerate(results.pose_landmarks.landmark):
when I am trying to run it using multiprocessing with two processes, the result (pose1) of the first process that I am getting is correct but that of the second process is not correct
 
is your question related to multiprocessing or processing the frames with the given frame count?
 
7:15 PM
frame count, actually video_pose.process() takes a lot of time for a large number of frames in opencv. So, anything to optimize it will be fine for me.
 
I don't immediately see how you would use something like that, but there's a threaded video capture sample based on a regular video capture sample in the openCV repo
 
BTW, you can get rid of that x_y_z list & just do pose1.append([lm.x, lm.y, lm.z, lm.visibility]).
 
@DeepakVerma put them in a queue to process, multiprocessing might not be what you are looking for here, you need multithreading where a capture thread and process thread are totally different which essentially saves you time to read the frame and then process it, instead now you read beforehand, put the frames in queue and process them one by one. This is usually also done for cameras that are "laggy", prone to drop frames or just a camera that you cannot access via common methods but only streams
 
Yes, thankyou.
Thanks @AshwinPhadke @AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні @PM2Ring
 
7:35 PM
Folks, I need help. I want to display:
1 and others: 2,3,4
1 and others:
when invoking the following:
Foo(1, 2, 3, 4)
Foo(1)
What is the correct way? My attempt is given as follows:
def Foo(x,*args):
    print(f"{x} and others: {args}")

Foo(1)
Foo(1,2,3)
 
how about print(f"{x} and others:", *args)
Ah, no, you want comma-separated. You have to build that yourself.
 
Or replace {args} with {','.join(map(str,args))}
 
def Foo(x,*args):
    print(x, "and others:", "".join(map(str, args)))
 
I think str.join is responsible for 99% of my map usage
 
OK. Thanks all. It works.
 
7:41 PM
@Aran-Fey serves you right for not using a language where the only data type is string
 
I see... suddenly that design makes sense. My eyes have been opened
 
Writing things like yield from map(Path, ...) and [f(x) for x in map(str.strip, ...) if x] is what makes me happy
map is great
 
Oooh, the 2nd one's actually pretty neat
 
If I inherit a class to my own custom class, it will also get it's __init__() method right? or do I have to define it's __init__() method even if it's the same params that need to be "inited"?
 
Of course, you inherit all the methods
 
7:50 PM
no magic, also easy enough to check
 
It gives me self is not defined for the custom class
 
MCVE time
 
this is literally pretty noob but something doesn't let me get out of it.
 
class UnetFeatureMap(Unet):
    self.encoder = get_encoder(
What's going on there? There is no self at that point
Is that code supposed to be in __init__?
 
@Aran-Fey it is yeah
 
7:59 PM
If I run this code and it shows me something other than self is not defined for the custom class, will you PayPal me a dollar?
 
but I get the params inside those functions like get_encoder as undefined in new class.
 
I'll be flexible, the capitalization doesn't need to match. Ballpark is fine.
 
@Kevin making deals here :p
 
you know the global market is harsh when Kevin switches from quatloos to dollars
 
Paypal refuses to accept quatloos in online marketplaces. Their loss.
 
8:01 PM
nvm figured it out, thanks for the help y'all. Noob me just had my brain wander.
 
Darn, now who am I going to present the 59 remaining minutes of my lecture to
Long story short, that code isn't an MCVE, and you already knew that deep down, because you weren't willing to risk a dollar on it.
 
Realized that late and had already figured out the problem.
 
All's well that ends well, I guess :-)
 
Let's argue psychology: If you ask someone to paypal you a dollar and they're reluctant to do it, is it because of the dollar or because of the effort it requires to paypal money to someone? I think a lot of people won't even seriously consider it just because they don't want to put in that effort.
Bonus thought: You might even get better results if you ask for more money, say 5 dollars
 
What if they don't use Paypal in the first place.
 
8:09 PM
Yeah, you're right. I remember reading an article about a micro-tipping service where you could give a couple pennies to your favorite participating content creators, just by clicking on an icon on their website. This was back in the day when people still had websites instead of Facebook/Twitter/etc.
The service was unprofitable because people were often unwilling to pay even a penny, even though they consciously knew it was a miniscule fraction of their expenses, and it was (mostly) going directly to somebody they liked.
(The service might have kept a small percentage as a transaction fee, I forget)
 
Leave it to capitalism to figure out how to keep a small percentage of a penny!
 
There are still sites like Buy Me A Coffee buymeacoffee.com
 
pennies are divisible in real life too, if you have a strong enough die cutter.
@PM2Ring I see that the recommended amount is $3. Aran's bonus thought was prescient.
 
5% transaction fee, hmmmm
 
Shh, don't think about it
 
8:15 PM
Hello.
 
Greetings
 
Has anyone here used marshal_with decorator with Flask?
Together with Marshmallow
 
Can't say that I have.
Currently reading flask-restplus.readthedocs.io/en/stable/marshalling.html... Oh, this is kind of like the database problem I was having this morning. You can define your style preferences on the model.
I figured that this kind of thing is usually possible with ORMs and/or DB-facing web frameworks. I'm more interested in a from-scratch solution, but YMMV
 
 
2 hours later…
9:59 PM
Hey guys what's up. :)
I have no idea what ORMs or DB-facing web frameworks are or what YMMV is haha.
 
YMMV means "your mileage may vary"
In the EU this would be "your kilometerage may vary" (not really)
 
Lol gotcha, I live under a rock.
 
ORM means Object-Relation-Mapper, or, as normal people would say, a thing that can convert objects to database entries
 
Hi Aran
I still have no idea what any of that is but I'll assume it's very useful haha.
I made a Plant class guys, I got a question.
So you know how I have age attributes to my resource objects, well the last one is "Dead", so sometimes the player will come across dead plants and trees, but then I would like it so that the quality of these resources, since they're dead, could get restricted in some way, but I'm having a hard time with it.
I'm guessing there's a way to create some type of relation between the plant quality and the plant age but I'm not sure how to go about establishing that relationship logic.
 
Isn't that just a simple if statement?
 
10:11 PM
Yeah but here's the catch lol.
I'm dealing with these randomized lists but I supposed now that I think of it, it shouldn't matter if it's randomized.
 
@JakeSteffan you can edit/delete messages for 2 minutes in chat
 
Oh thanks.
 
easter egg idea: (false) rose of Jericho that's dead but if you water it it comes to life again
 
That's kinda fascinating actually.
Guys I think I'm just too skittish to start spamming logic into my code because I'm a perfectionist. I worry that everything I do will end up being as they say "spaghetti code".
 
Can you set aside small-scale botany design and try to come up with a skeleton for the actual mechanics of your game? That might help you get perspective later.
 
10:17 PM
I'm pretty sure that's why I'm trying to preoccupy my focus on these micromechanics, so that I can hide from the fact if I really had to work on a bird's eye view of what I want to accomplish I wouldn't have any clue where to start.
 
I struggle with the same thing sometimes. I worry about the design so much that I end up losing interest in the project without ever writing any code...
 
you might find it hard to predict what kind of interaction is meaningful between aspects of your entities until you have a concrete idea of what the game does and how entities fit in it
 
I figure maybe if I just do it this way it "will come to me" haha.
Yeah I understand Andras.
 
Mar 8 at 18:11, by Kevin
I prefer overthinking to coding, so losing interest before writing anything is a beneficial optimization
 
Lol...
 
10:19 PM
"Perfection is the enemy of progress", as they say
 
there's a Hungarian play that among other things says ~"contemplation is the death of action"
 
The problem I think I'm having is learning right out of the gate functional programming paradigm and then switching to OOP once I started getting the hang of it, and now my mind is scrambling the two and now I can't tell where one ends and one begins, especially when I start doing the logic stuff.
Like if you were to ask me any one thing about anything, I could tell you what it is, but if you say "where should you put this logic" I'd just have to give a blank stare lol.
 
mind you, the words are uttered by Lucifer to convince Eve to try the forbidden fruit...
 
Yeah I just have to get in there and mess up and hate myself, I know. (sigh)
 
@JakeSteffan let me help you: forget about functional programming
 
10:22 PM
You already sound like a veteran
 
Lol okay.
I actually have a good question right now.
So for example about this if statement, and trying to figure out where to put it. My thought process is as follows: "Should I put this in a function? I'm not sure. Should I put it inside each class? I have no idea. But if I put it in the "global scope area" that might present problems later, plus it isn't as orderly and organized" lol
That's my sad thought process.
 
I don't really understand your situation but I'm certain you should not put it 'in the "global scope area"'
 
Yeah, the global scope is for imports, constants, classes, and functions. The only if statement that goes in the global scope is if __name__ == '__main__':
 
Then that begs the next question, when do I ever put anything in something that isn't a function or a class?
Ohhhh...
 
and if TYPE_CHECKING: :>
 
10:27 PM
Well that is good news to hear.
That's great news, so everything really belongs inside of a function or a class? Mostly?
 
global scope code is executed exactly once when the module is imported, which is not what you usually want your program's code to do, so yeah
 
Yes. Code outside of functions or classes isn't reusable and not organized
 
I'm breathing in an incredible sigh of relief right now lol.
 
You know what could have made you aware of this? A good python tutorial aimed at beginners.
 
Then why did I have to learn functional programming for like the first 4 weeks lol.
 
10:29 PM
By putting code inside a function, you're separating it from the other code and giving it a name, which is doubly good for readability. Plus you're making it reusable
 
@JakeSteffan I'm pretty sure none of us would have recommended that you do that, so you should ask whomever gave you that tip
 
Wow.
This is the best thing I've learned all week.
 
like I said, forget about functional programming
 
My problem was downloading these android apps to help teaching me Python, because all of it was learning loops and lists outside of OOP.
 
2 of my game characters froze to death while I was chatting, I hope this weighs on your conscience forever >:I
 
10:31 PM
Hahaha, I'm sorry.
 
@JakeSteffan you had me at "android apps"
@Aran-Fey frostpunk?
 
I thought I was making monumental leaps of progress when I finished Mimo's Beginner course in Python. I even got my own certificate. LOL
 
Is that a game? No, Genshin Impact
 
@JakeSteffan to be clear, you should first learn loops and lists, then you should learn about OOP (with lot of other stuff in between)
@Aran-Fey ah! Yes, it is. But people freeze there a lot.
 
I think I've heard of it, is that the game where you overwork your citizens until they die?
...well, there's probably more than 1 game like that
 
10:33 PM
I think you're supposed to stop just before they die or revolt, but yeah
survival management game in superwinter
 
Genshin Impact is the mobile game right? I haven't tried it.
 
That sounds inefficient to me, you're losing out on labor and have 1 more mouth to feed
 
@JakeSteffan it's a gacha
I'm told
 
It's available on mobile and PC
 
Oh okay.
I don't like the survival games that exist right now, so I decided I would create my own lol.
You know what would be cool, if they made a survival game where you played the dad, and you had to take care of your 2 kids while being lost in a huge wilderness.
If you die as the dad you become one of your kids and have to take care of your brother or sister.
 
10:38 PM
it's a very prolific genre these days so odds are something like that already exists
 
I don't think "parenting" is generally considered a fun game mechanic
 
Lol.
 
I wouldn't think that "don't die against all ods" is a fun game mechanic, yet people seem to like these games :P
 
Lol yeah, the harder the better.
I'm a glutton for punishment, but then again the grind has to have some kind of purpose and hold my interest. If the game is boring then the grind is completely annoying.
 
sounds like a Dark Souls fan
 
10:41 PM
@AndrasDeak--СлаваУкраїні Depends on how it's implemented IMO. Bullet hell? No thanks. Dark Souls? Heck yeah.
 
The beauty about grind that's often overlooked is that you need the grind to get that dopamine spike.
There can't be a spike without some sort of "tough journey" to get to said spike.
I used to play Rust on PC, and when I played these 10x modded servers where everything was 10x easier to get, dying was less important, which meant surviving a gun fight was not critical, which means a boring experience because less is on the line.
 
True. Must be hard to find the right balance
 
I think I figured out how to do it, that's why I wanna create a game so badly lol.
I think the key is during the grind, add slot machine like rng. Like you know those games where you go into those towns and loot everything? Looking inside of a drawer in a house, or whatever.
The little dopamine hits when you find something that you have no idea what it could be, makes the grind a lot more manageable and interesting.
 
Yeah basically.
 
10:46 PM
make users pay for it and you've got a gacha
 
That's why random.choices with weights are so important in Python when it comes to making a game I think.
 
I recently had a related thought about Genshin. I realized I enjoy finding treasure chests, even though most of them don't contain anything particularly noteworthy. Just the fact that it's a treasure chest is enough to trick my stupid monkey brain
 
Lol, but wouldn't it be nice to know that "every once in a while" you find something highly valuable?
Then it would be even more suspenseful, even if you were to open it and find nothing, the suspense is still there because of the "what if"
 
Oh, definitely. There are 3 (or 4?) different kinds of treasure chests, with varying rewards
Finding a rare one is extra special, of course, but even the useless ones make me happy
 
10:51 PM
Yeah that's the trick, because if you have something that's rare, it's free dopamine without player progress, which is key because as a developer you don't want the player to progress, because every step of progression takes away the opportunity to provide them with something valuable to give them more dopamine.
 
the trick is to reel in users who are susceptible to gambling problems, and to trick them into gambling in a scenario that is not legally recognised as gambling
 
Have you guys ever heard of Scum?
It's a PC game.
 
Nope, never heard of it
 
It's a game that ended up being developed poorly, but some noteworthy takeaways that helped me see the picture was that the environment was a mix between wilderness and towns. Well what happens is no one really cares about the wilderness, everyone was addicted to the town runs.
And the reason they were addicted to it was because every house was searchable, you'd search everywhere in every nook and cranny for mostly useless junk lol.
But people would spend all day just looking on shelves and inside dresser drawers.
They'd find stuff like copper wire and patches of velcro or whatever, rubber bands. But it really helped me to understand what's enticing to people when they play. The town was basically one big slot machine lever lol.
So then why would I build a wilderness game, if no one cares about wilderness and ran sacking towns is where its at? Well I think I figured out something interesting, that if I can make the wilderness loot boxy in the same way these towns are, I think it will have a big impact in how interesting my game will be.
 
Could it also have had something to do with towns being a "safe zone"? If there are monsters lurking in the wilderness, then players might enjoy hanging out in towns just because it's a chance to relax
 
11:00 PM
If you ever noticed none of the survival games have any wilderness environments that are in depth right. Most wilderness games are like "pick up this branch", or "collect this sea shell", lol.
There's these things called mechs which are the biggest enemies in the game, and they only hover around the military areas of the towns. There's basically nothing to do in the wilderness in the game. Which is kinda sad.
 
Sounds like a waste, yeah
 
So Aran I should make a function to create that if statement right?
I'm thinking what I should have done was make a Resources class instead of a Tree class, since a Tree is a resource and I'm going to be making Tree, Plant, Mushroom, Rock classes, or do you think it's that big of a deal?
 
Yeah, it's very likely that all of those should share a common parent class
 
Okay cool I'll try to make that before I go to bed.
Do you have Facebook?
 
As for the if statement, are we talking about the one that reduces the amount of resources if the plant is dead?
 
11:06 PM
Well basically I'd like to be able to restrict the quality of the plant if it's dead since dead plants should have a low quality.
 
@JakeSteffan Nope, nothing social here
It's hard to say. Maybe it's fine to put that if statement into the Plant constructor, but there's also a chance that you want it somewhere else
 
Oh and also stuff like certain species are restricted from being able to randomly choose certain choices, for example if Aspen was randomly selected as a species I'd like to be able to restrict the resources for that species, so that it wouldn't be able to pull "Sap" for example, since Aspens don't have useful sap.
Oh okay, I wasn't even thinking of putting it there.
 
The good news is that if you turn out to have made the wrong choice, it's easy to fix. Moving an if statement is hardly even any trouble
 
That's actually really helpful to know thank you.
 
@JakeSteffan highly tangential note: if you want to sell this game eventually you should know that it's practically impossible to distribute python code in a way that can't be reverse-engineered into python source code.
 
11:12 PM
@JakeSteffan I would make a class attribute that contains all the resources the plant can drop. In the simplest case, just a set like {resource1, resource2}, or something fancier like a {resource1: probability1, resource2: probability2} dict
 
Make the values weights so they don't have to add up to 1
 
Both of these are useful comments thank you.
I'm not following that last comment.
 @staticmethod
    def plant_resources():
        resources = ["Stem", "Flower", "Pod", "Seeds", "Leaves", "Taproot", "Fruit"]
        return random.choices(resources, weights=(10, 5, 1, 3, 15, 3, 1), k=3)
 
Make a dict like {'a': 1, 'b': 2} and not {'a': 0.33333333, 'b': 0.66666666}
 
^
probabilities have one fewer degrees of freedom due to normalisation
 
Oh you can turn the weights into a dictionary?
 
What would the 'a' and 'b' represent?
 
Resources like 'Stem' or 'Flower' in your code
 
Hm...I'm confused.
I'm going to have about 40 different plants in the game.
 
So 40 different plant_resources functions?
 
What if I do 40 nested if statements instead?
I'm joking, I have no idea what I'm doing.
I got lost after I read normalisation. :(
 
11:24 PM
Bedtime, I think
 
Alright I'll try to figure this out, I need to play around more and think less.
Thank you for all the help you guys gave me today.
 
It's nice to help someone who's clearly dying to learn, for a change. Quite a contrast to our usual spoon-feeding
But anyway, I really need to get some sleep. Good night
 
Good night!!
 
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