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9:03 PM
Do you guys think that having knowledge in graphs is useful in day-to-day programming or would you consider it more of a specialized thing?
I.e. in your opinion how much should an average programmer know about graphs?
 
Graphs as in visualisation or as in graph-theory?
 
The parentheses alone have always represented a simple parenthesised expression.
 
@roganjosh Graph theory.
 
@EnnMichael depends on what you mean by day-to-day programming
 
I guess it's a subjective question, like asking: do you need to know graph theory in order to be a good programmer?
And "good" is by your own merits.
Whatever you might consider a "good programmer" to be.
 
9:07 PM
No. You need to know your domain (IMHO)
 
I'm not really a programmer but I think I'm alright at the stuff I do get to program. And I know very little about graph theory.
but the problems I have tend to have to do with linear algebra and analysis
 
You would be very aware if graph theory was relevant to your own domain if it is vitally important
 
if I worked with distributed systems or search engines or stuff that sort other stuff I'd probably need a lot more graph theory
 
I think the only thing that's (kind of) related to graph theory I've needed is a toposort
 
If you were thinking about picking up an IT related book in order to improve yourself as a programmer, what are the top three topics you would try to pick?
 
9:11 PM
I don't think you need graph theory in specific, unless actually working with it. You should have the skills to grok the basics of graph theory if needed.
 
I wouldn't dismiss the idea that there may be some crossover where knowing some technique from graph theory would make some obscure aspect of your application more efficient. However, I've generally (coming from an engineering background and now in data science) seen it go horribly in the opposite direction; people throwing obscure and horribly-complex approaches to a problem and just destroying the setup
 
Like, there are many different formulations to various problem, graphs being just one of them. But you should be able to translate a graph formulation to whatever you are familiar with.
Though from my experience, anything that is aimed at *-theory tends to invite style over substance.
Just been though some ML paper on graphs that could be basically summed up as "express page rank as an adjacency matrix".
 
I meant to look through Are We Really Making Much Progress? A Worrying Analysis of Recent Neural Recommendation Approaches but forgot to set some time aside. I suspect it will be an interesting read. Not on graph theory, but the abstract looks like DS is going off-course by trying to be clever
(I came across it while playing with React and finding this blog as rough attribution. I can't vouch for how interesting the analysis actually is)
 
Ever since I've learned about the k-means algorithm, I've had a feeling like deep learning is perhaps being overhyped. This seems quite interesting
 
9:30 PM
The take-away is that you're not a "bad" programmer if you don't understand what others will say is essential to know. If the abstract of that article is to be believed, there's a lot of touting about technical things that people can know that doesn't translate to measurable outcomes. I really need to have an actual read because the abstract and title is just confirming my biases and that's not exactly scientific
 
The reason why I even brought up the question is because an acclaimed academic said it during an algebra lecture.
"In order to be a truly great programmer, you must have excellent knowledge of graph theory."
 
hah, acclaimed academic, not acclaimed programmer
 
This being an academic person, I knew not to jump into conclusions and hold onto my suspicions. I have been doing programming for about 6 years and I have not once had to solve graph problems.
 
Well, I gave up even trying to understand academic papers on the Travelling Salesman Problem
I don't care whether the new approach is more likely to solve the problem. None of them have any application in the real world. The problems are totally unrealistic, don't contain all of the constraints of a real problem, and take minutes to solve. I also spent long enough in the academic sphere to know, at least from engineering, how/why these papers get published.
 
Show of hands: Who knew about the xmlrpc stdlib module?
Would've been nice if it had been based on a serialization format that doesn't need 2 3rd-party security fixes, but oh well
 
9:48 PM
A really open question; is Java fundamentally different in the design patterns that it enforces from C++? I understand that they're radically different languages, but are the design patterns completely alien between the two?
 
that might be easier answered in either the C++ or the java room :)
I don't object to you asking here, just a probabilistic remark
 
I mean, languages don't exactly enforce any design patterns. But I'm sure that the design patterns that are commonly used in those two languages have very little overlap
well, maybe "very little" is not quite true, considering what kind of stuff is considered a "design pattern" nowadays
 
I've had 2 days on kotlin and it's actually really helping me understand interfaces and seeing what python actually does for us. I'm kinda trying to build a roadmap of languages. But yeah, it's not a great question for the python room... but it's a neutral base at the same time
 
yeah, because we know that both are inferior
 
:P
 
9:54 PM
I imagine things like "no such thing as pointers" in java shift emphases a bit
(talking with the confidence of someone that has never really seen java and only very little C++)
 
I'm thinking Python (base language), kotlin, and Rust. And waiting until Kotlin can compile properly for iOS. That should cover most bases
 
Learning how to write kotlin: easy. Learning how to compile kotlin: hard
 
Yeah, the details on making an iOS app is... scant
But, hey, they're going for it. Better to be on the crest of that wave
 
wim
@Aran-Fey 🙋
pip search command eventually plumbs through to that. warehouse.readthedocs.io/api-reference/xml-rpc
 
My predicament is that Python doesn't push me enough to think about how I design programs. With no outside influence, the best I can do is just review existing libraries, and I can't get the mindset, so I think it's more useful to review other languages
 
wim
10:02 PM
meanwhile the world moved on to JSON apis, stdlib xmlrpc could be added to the dead batteries list IMO
 
@wim Oh, the perfect guy. Do you think it's fine to use xmlrpc as long as the two security modules are set up? Or is still a security risk?
I'm looking for an easy way to write server/client apps that I can recommend to newbies instead of sockets. So far this is the most promising candidate, unfortunately
@roganjosh Sometimes I think that too, but other times I can't even imagine how I'd translate my code into other languages. Like, imagine not having *args, **kwargs. I'd be screwed.
 
@Aran-Fey kotlin definitely has made me think about that. I definitely don't have a good answer, varargs is a bit alien
 
10:18 PM
or even things like python slices...
 
It can do slices. With horrible syntax :P
 
can it also do [::-1] succinctly?
 
Hold your horses, I've barely got the slice syntax before trying to reverse it :P
 
Slicing is .slice(start..end). Reversing is .reversedArray(). Slicing with a step size other than 1 is... long and messy :D
 
It has some gross syntax. Their hashmap/dict requires to instead of :. I have no idea why
 
10:24 PM
yeah, it feels like they're trying too hard to be regular english sometimes
 
in Tavern on the Meta on Meta Stack Exchange Chat, 10 hours ago, by Andras Deak
if you really need to create an account and agree to an EULA online to use a mouse then you have far greater issues than key bindings
 
Huh, didn't expect to read the name Cerebrus there
 
regarding razer mice based on a twitter thread ------------------^
@Aran-Fey how so?
 
I don't know them very well, but I had the impression that they know what they're doing, so I was surprised to see they posted a wrong answer
 
10:29 PM
Was it the same user you had in mind? The name is not that exotic.
 
Ah, you're right, it's a different person
 
wim
11:27 PM
@Aran-Fey I'd go with something more modern like zmq
everybody hates xml and they will hate you if you make them use it
 
hmm anyone got an idea how to wait for a docker to "finish" without burning the cpu?
while status == '\'running\'\n':
    status = subprocess.check_output(['sudo', 'docker', 'inspect',
                                         docker_identification,
                                         '--format=\'{{.State.Status}}\''], universal_newlines=True)
that's currently what I have, but it's obviously bad
 
wim
11:48 PM
@Kevin can you change gist.github.com/kms70847/3b751f24494cb6ed219b to work on all stack exchange sites + meta, please?
@include      /^https?:\/\/\w*.?(stackexchange.com|stackoverflow.com|serverfault.com|superuser.com|askubuntu.com|stackapps.com|mathoverflow.net)\/questions/.*
 

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