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1:45 AM
cabbage
 
2:19 AM
coldspeed is back, baby
 
3:04 AM
what
how'd you get around the name changing limit?
late night cbg, empty room
 
3:20 AM
cbg
 
3:35 AM
hello anyone using docker here?
 
Yes, what do you need
 
about this one I got an error about .py

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50871175/laradock-in-laravel-got-py-error
 
Yea that's an issue with docker-compose.
Which version of windows are you using?
 
windows 10 PRO
its still not fix sir?
 
Are you using the docker toolkit, or native docker for windows?
If using native, try running cmd as administrator
 
3:48 AM
docker for windows
I still got the same error im using powershell
also in cmd
both run as administrator
 
What docker version?
 
Is the docker daemon running?
 
yes sir
I only got this error after im running a python in laradock
before it was ok when im just using laravel
 
Everything I'm reading about it seems like a windows issue. I don't really have experience with Docker on windows so I'm probably not the best person to help
 
3:57 AM
ok sir thats also what I read
 
4:14 AM
sir, yes sir
 
Too much "sir". 7.8/10
 
where did I lose .2?
 
Capitalization?
Capitalism is important, you know
 
right
 
anyone help?
about this one?
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/50871175/laradock-in-laravel-got-py-error
 
5:01 AM
Incorrect closure? This OP is making the weakest arguments but they're being so bullheaded that I'm starting to doubt myself.
If I was feeling somewhat motivated enough to care I'd have searched hard enough to find 5 other identical questions to hammer this one with.
 
"I can't copy paste the answer from that duplicate and have my code work"
 
The consequences of people who don't bother to learn Python before using Pandas
 
@coldspeed the dupe is fine but you should add a target with a native solution if there's one
 
too late now 🃑
 
5:09 AM
inb4 they repost in a couple of hours when I'm asleep
 
Oh well
@coldspeed dictionary as in the book. They know it's a list. Just need to index into the list when checking !=, probably
 
Well, at least it'd work, I give you that.
 
No need to be that snarky, OP's trying
I dont have any books, i was given a website and my teacher is basically making me self teach myself in the middle of the program, ive asked for help and hes a dcad teacher i dont think he really knows much of cs himself. — Cody Phillips 39 secs ago
Poor kids
 
This is people who accuse literally every comment of being snarky
yeah, de-giffing that now
 
5:24 AM
Those people are the worst
It's time you hit the books then... — coldspeed 4 mins ago
 
that was borderline :)
 
If you say so
 
I do, in fact. But I kinda feel bad for OP now, so I'll write a better follow up
yeah, looks good methinks
 
 
1 hour later…
6:40 AM
cbg everyone, is there a idiomatic way to serialize/deserialize relational binary blobs?
i.e. something like:
serialize({'a' : b'{binary here}', 'b' : b'{another binary here}'})
 
Yeah... you may want to look into protocol buffers
 
@coldspeed there's no easy way? :/ I know json won't support this unless I base64 encode this. I'm pretty sure yaml will complain too, but I'm reluctant to bring out a whole another beast just to handle this
 
you're right when you say it's a whole different beast...
yeah, if you think you can do this with base64, go for it.
 
6:59 AM
:^/
 
Cabbage
 
cbg
 
I don't know what "relational binary blobs" means. You could just save the repr of those bytes strings, but the base64 version will generally be more compact. How big are these blobs, on average? Do they have any human-readable content, or other structure?
 
@PM2Ring they are serialized scipy matrices in .npz format. repr of these byte strings will not be easily serialized in json
They scale with data, and can be up to 100k rows & columns, but is extremely sparse
 
7:06 AM
I guess .npz means they're compressed?
 
@PM2Ring not necessarily. I believe .npz is just a serialization format.
 
Ok. In that case you should definitely try compressing them.
 
Well, that's not necessarily the problem. Disk space is cheap, and so is lzma compression
I just don't know the idiomatic way of doing this
 
Cbg
 
Do you mean the JSON output will get LZMA compressed? I guess that's fine, although you'd get better compression by compressing the binary data before it's converted to base64.
 
7:17 AM
What is the stand in replacement for the "too localised" close reason these days?
 
@coldspeed Ironically, "too broad" can work, if they haven't posted an attempt, or an outline of an attempt. But if it's a giant code dump without a clear explanation of what it does that's wrong, then it's "unclear".
@OneRaynyDay What's the problem with base64?
 
I don't have a problem with base64. I can do it, but I have no idea if it is idiomatic
I know it's idiomatic for streaming images over network with lzma compression in base 64 json format
but scipy sparse arrays into disk? not sure
 
Wait, what? lzma compressed base64 json images are idiomatic?
I'm pretty sure you can skip the 3 extra steps of lzma compressing, bas64 encoding and wrapping it in JSON and you'll end up with a smaller file size
 
7:37 AM
@Aran-Fey this is for deep learning model applications. Lots of hip new papers/frameworks use this for distributed training on large RDDs for convnet architectures
yes you can technically stream multipart data, but both ways are equally "idiomatic"
Now whenever I say something is something, I will get disagreements, but I am speaking purely from ethos
 
.npz can be both uncompressed and compressed
.savez vs .savez_compressed
 
8:13 AM
@OneRaynyDay I've just been browsing the Numpy / SciPy docs, learning about .npz & .npy. I see that there's scipy.sparse.save_npz for saving sparse arrays, and it has a compression option. That ought to give you much better compression than plain numpy.savez_compressed.
OTOH, if you're going to LZMA-compress the final JSON anyway it's probably better to use scipy.sparse.save_npz in uncompressed mode. It'll be faster, and using 2 similar compression algorithms (like zip & LZMA) on the same data is rarely worthwhile.
@OneRaynyDay EthOS could be a Linux distro from ETH Zürich. But I guess it would be hard to google. :) They have created an OS or two, though: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oberon_%28operating_system%29 and churned out quite a few important students: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETH_Zurich#Notable_alumni_and_faculty
 
@PM2Ring ah yes, so I'm planning a giant batch compression on a tarball containing many of these files, so that's the route I'm currently going
So good ideas all in all
 
recbg
 
cbg
 
sunny Gibraltar. I am locked into a penthouse apartment facing away from the window coding.
surely this is a crime against humanity
 
turn around?
 
8:26 AM
can't
too buy
 
stop and smell the roses
 
busy
it seems I can't even cook bacon and eggs :D
I ruined my fried egg sunny side up?!
 
Can somebody comment on this python dictionary?
2
A: Data structure to maintain a pair of files

blhsingI recommend using nested dicts to cache your alertfile and eventfile pairs. Since a folder may or may not contain the file pairs, when it does, it should use the '.' key to store a dict of the file pairs in this folder, like this: cache = { '.': {'alertfile': 'alert content', 'eventfile': 'e...

 
comment what?
 
@AndrasDeak "you may expect numpy.int(3) to give you a numpy int" I certainly did. I assumed it was a C int, that is an int of the native machine word size. I didn't suspect that it was an alias for Python int. Coincidentally, I used it recently in my fern generator. That was the 1st time I'd used it though, I normally use an int with the size in its name.
 
8:57 AM
:)
 
9:16 AM
@overexchange This is a fresh question... but I guess you're asking about the answer. A nested dict lets you search the directory tree structure. If you don't need that, then use a flat dict, or even just a list of paths. And instead of storing the paths in string form you could use the Path object from the pathlib module.
 
I'm still waiting for a clarification of their question here
 
 
1 hour later…
10:36 AM
@PM2Ring yes am asking about the answer...
List vs dict tradeoff can be taken care
In 3.6 I think dict is by default ordered
 
I have no idea what you're asking
 
Ordered dictionary
To access a file pair, I need O(1) time in flat dict
Unlike nested dict
 
two consecutive O(1) lookups are still O(1), right?
 
So why nested dict
To search a file pair it is O(1). Asymptotic analysis does not talk about repetition of a task
And its analysis
 
No, O(1) in this context means that it scales constant with the size of your dict. Repetition means that it's O(1)*O(m) for m repetitions
 
 
1 hour later…
11:49 AM
Is it m*O(1) ? What is the meaning of O(m)?
I don't get you
 
yes
 
12:20 PM
                               c

               b                               b

       g               g               g               g

   r       o       o       m               s       i       x
 
12:39 PM
What does cabbage mean?
 
Mar 26 '14 at 9:41, by Sham
cabbage mean hello, ok
 
1:17 PM
cbg :D
 
Edited the code in an old answer of mine from x = 0; while True: ... x += 1 to for x in itertools.count(): but I suspect this will reduce its upvoteworthiness because the less clueful readers will not know what it does
 
DSM
for x in count(): print(f'cabbage #{x}!')
 
I could explain what it does, but I don't want to.
Maybe it will be a wash because half of the less clueful readers will think "gee this code must be real good because I don't understand it, here's an upvote"
The important thing is that the reader can copy-paste the code and it will do the needful. The specifics aren't all that important.
 
DSM
I remember once when someone posted a hard-to-understand recursive code for something and I posted what I thought was a clearer iterative version, but recursive guy got all the upboats. :-(
 
I also edited the post to change print x to print(x) and that at least is an objective improvement
 
1:32 PM
for x in count():print(f'{"cabbage"[:x%8]:>8}',end='\r');sleep(0.2)
 
 
DSM
@PM2Ring: showoff. ;-)
 
:)
@Kevin I wonder if someone will suggest if not file.startswith(('hydrophobic', 'charged')):
 
DSM
@PM2Ring: heh
 
Irritated that first comment got two upvotes despite being syntactically and logically incorrect
>>> file = "charged"
>>> not file.startswith('hydrophobic') or not file.startswith('charged')
True
>>> file = "hydrophobic"
>>> not file.startswith('hydrophobic') or not file.startswith('charged')
True
>>> file = "coconuts"
>>> not file.startswith('hydrophobic') or not file.startswith('charged')
True
 
DSM
1:37 PM
I didn't even notice, TBH, so now I'm happy I didn't upvote it. :-)
 
@DSM Actually, cycle(range(8) would be better, since it avoids the %.
 
1:54 PM
Should I write a Unit Test or try/catch block for every bug/error I find and fix? This question is probably not worth making an actual thread on SO for, but it's something that bugs me a bit
a lot of the bugs I find in my code are things I can just... fix. (For example, I just ran into a bug where a field was a smallint, and the value in said field went over the allowed limit)
(The fix is just to change it from a smallint to regular int.; I did not realize the value could go so high)
Is it worth writing a unit test for this error, even though I fixed it? Or putting the offending bit of code in a try/catch block?
I don't really know when to use unit tests
because all of the offending bits of code seem to be pretty well fixable
 
That's the philosophy of regression testing, isn't it? Write a test for every bug you fix, so you can be sure the bug will not reappear
 
DSM
The discipline also helps in other ways. If code is hard to test, it's usually badly structured.
 
Perhaps you can justify skipping writing a test for bugs that you're completely sure will not happen again. Typos and that sort of thing.
 
yeah. I can understand typos not being something I should test
 
I don't like the idea of adding try-catches around code that used to be buggy, but isn't any more
 
DSM
1:58 PM
This (bad structure, I mean) just happened to me yesterday -- I was having to mock out too many things because a function was both doing calculations and requesting data. Eventually I realized it was time to separate things more cleanly, and now both code and tests are in better shape.
 
Ah. I've been finding that I can test the code pretty easily
it's moreso—I'm not sure when to test it
if the bug is that the field only allows for integers up to 256, though, and I increase that limit to 1024—it seems, to me, that the bug was fixed
 
I use exception handling only for exceptional code, not for broken code
 
@Kevin That I will keep in mind. that's a pretty good heuristic for when to use try/except
I guess knowing when to unit test is still bothering me
 
DSM
Why wouldn't you aim for near-complete coverage on anything you care about the correctness of?
 
well, then my unit tests would be way bigger than the code itself
 
DSM
2:01 PM
That's not unheard of. My rough heuristic is that my tests are about the same length as the code.
 
ah, ok. so it's good to know that this is normal
so when there are a lot of things that can go wrong with something that's relatively simple, does one write a unit test for all of them? consider this smallint example: in the future, it could be the case that this integer even goes beyond my increased limits (though I think this is unlikely), so I will write a test for that
but what about cases where the thing returned isn't an integer? (and other such permutations of "this could go wrong")
 
DSM
The module I'm looking at right now has about 400 lines of code and has 716 lines of tests, because it's very, very important that it get the numbers right. In other cases, I just do a simple sanity check on output values.
 
ok
ok, good. it is good to know that the thing that i saw as a problem is not a problem (unit tests being relatively large), but just the way things work. That actually helps me a lot
thanks @Kevin @DSM :)
this helps put me in the right mindset for testing
(sorry to be kind of obtuse; i've had a lot of coding experience, but i've never dealt w/ unit testing before)
 
DSM
Remember thought, we don't write tests for the sake of writing tests, we write tests to make sure the code does what it's supposed to. The nature and depth of tests we write should scale with the nature of the problem we're working with.
 
what if i'm interacting with, say, an outside server/code-that-i-have-nothing-to-do-with. do i write unit tests to ensure the response from said server is appropriate (so, said tests would fail if something goes bunk on the other side?)
or do i restrict them as much as possible to dealings within my own code?
 
DSM
2:07 PM
A unit test typically tests a function in isolation. Testing whether you're successfully interacting with an outside service is often called an "integration" test.
 
oh boy! so, given that unit tests are often at least the same size as the code that's being tested
there being different types of tests means, probably, that the whole testing suite is usually larger than the code itself, yeah?
 
writing code is easy. Writing code that is understandable for others to maintain is hard. That includes test cases :\
most company won't want a black box coder, it's just bad for business
 
DSM
Again, it depends. If your code is well-separated and mostly side effect-free, sometimes 'testing' a function is just designing a list of inputs and outputs to handle standard and corner cases.
 
ok
i am going to incorporate this pretty stringently into my mindset hence
thank you gents :)
 
2:23 PM
morning cabbage
 
cbg all
 
So I'm pretty sure PIL image instances only compare equal to themselves, and this bothers me
Browsing around SO I see a couple approaches for determining whether two images contain the exact same pixel data, but most of it requires iterating completely over both images
Which seems wasteful if you'd prefer to bail out as soon as you find a mismatch
I wrote my own terminate-as-early-as-possible algorithm but it calls .load() on both images at the beginning so I'm pretty sure it's still doing a complete pass on the backend
This has been complaining corner with your designated complainer, Kevin
 
you can get a numpy array from your image, after which np.array_equal(arr1, arr2) for integers, np.allclose(arr1, arr2) for floats
recbg
the numpy thing won't short-circuit, but it's vectorized at c speed
 
Some of the complete pass solutions on SO are also C speed, I expect
 
I think there's been talk on the mailing list to add a ufunc for equality that could short-circuit, unless I'm mistaken
 
2:35 PM
In particular the "call difference and see if the size of the bounding box of the result is (0,0)`" approach is probably pretty close to the metal
 
difference sounds like non-short-circuit
 
Yeah
 
long-circuit
 
DSM
I'm actually quite surprised that allclose doesn't short-circuit. Why doesn't it?
 
res = all(isclose(a, b, rtol=rtol, atol=atol, equal_nan=equal_nan))
hmm, the all can short-circuit there
 
DSM
2:39 PM
Yeah, but it's already done the heavy lifting by then.
 
right
 
I don't suppose isclose could return a lazy iterable?
 
nope, returns an array
 
DSM
It's even worse, I think, it materializes the broadcast version of the array.
 
I don't really see how that works for multidimensional arrays...
for those isclose should return a multidimensional array, for which all() is undefined
 
2:42 PM
Are we sure it's the builtin all? If np is willing to override int, they can override anything
 
and all seems to be builtins.all
there's numpy.all but I don't see that in that module yet
hmm, I'm missing something obvious
array_equal does return bool(asarray(a1 == a2).all()) which is exactly what I'd expect and understand...
 
DSM
We're definitely missing something here.
 
and no star imports...
 
The docstring says isclose returns an "array-like". Do arraylikes have more powers than actual arrays?
 
no, they're duck arrays
returning an array-like sounds like overly cautions phrasing; you know very well it's an array
array-likes are usually expected on input
 
DSM
2:46 PM
It has to be np.all somehow.
 
yeah, then again why would it return bool(all(...))?
 
DSM
To convert np.bool_ to bool.
Ah, the imports are at the BOTTOM OF THE FILE
 
but why?
@DSM ooooooooooooh the sneaky devils
from .umath import *
from .numerictypes import *
from . import fromnumeric
from .fromnumeric import *
from . import arrayprint
from .arrayprint import *
extend_all(fromnumeric)
extend_all(umath)
extend_all(numerictypes)
extend_all(arrayprint)
no star imports my yam
 
:-I
Naughty numpy.
 
and I thought having __all__ at the bottom was confusing
that's...awful
 
DSM
2:49 PM
They tend to know what they're doing so I'm sure there's a reason they did it this way, but it definitely succeeded in puzzling me.
 
you should also not believe when I claim one thing or the other about a module ;)
 
DSM
In the last ten minutes I've achieved two triumphs, one involving my professional life and one involving numpy. Today is looking good.
 
it may be due to the extend_all which needs to have been defined before the extend_all calls before which the star imports must have had happened. Then again they may have put the whole thing on top complete with function def and star imports, I don't have enough python knowledge to tell
 
You'll look back on this day fondly. "remember that time I solved that numpy problem? Oh and also I became CEO of NumberFirm"
 
Chief Euclidean Officer
 
DSM
2:53 PM
Let me at least go Minkowski..
 
there's no M in CEO :(
we could work with Bolyai or Lobachevsky
 
DSM
Not with that attitude. #callback
 
Don't completely understand the tech talk in that thread but I'm not seeing an enthusiastic yes from the devs
 
I counter OP's "the docs never mention they short-circuit" with "the docs never mention they short-circuit"
 
There are some implementation details that man was not meant to know
 
2:56 PM
according to the mailing list: stalled PR with short-circuiting all_equal
 
(I think you missed a "don't" there)
 
@Kevin indeed, thanks; it shall be preserved in its beautiful flawed state for future generations
 
3:30 PM
zip(*[count()]*20)... the kind of thing I love writing and don't like reading quite as much.
 
@Kevin really really interesting footage of a huge crab predating on an ophiuroid (brittle star) from last night's Okeanos feed youtu.be/z90J89qa26Q?t=28m25s
the angle gets much better after a short while
 
how big is that thing approx?
 
morning folks
 
body is just 15 cm across (lasers are 10 cm apart here youtu.be/z90J89qa26Q?t=49m24s)
 
cabbage
or, relevantly, crabbage
 
3:34 PM
cbg
 
cribbage
 
The star should have simply attacked the giant enemy crab's weak point for massive damage
 
reversed(map(int, '1 2 3'.split())) or map(int, reversed('1 2 3'.split()))?
Or does it not matter?
 
Also making an appearance in that vid is fish with a really bad haircut
 
wim
this kills the crab.
 
3:38 PM
Performance is the same either way, I think
Or, hmm
>>> reversed(map(int, '1 2 3'.split()))
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "<stdin>", line 1, in <module>
TypeError: 'map' object is not reversible
That's a problem.
 
wim
[int(x) for x in reversed(s.split())]
 
Makes sense that it would forbid this, since maps might be infinitely long
 
wim
I was hoping reversed(reversed(x)) would be identity but TypeError: 'reversed' object is not reversible
 
Ah, that answers it
 
Interesting that reversed objects aren't subscriptable.
Oh, I was going to say "... Since the argument to reversed must support subscripting" but actually it can be a sequence or an object that implements __reversed__
I guess that makes sense if you've got a collection object that has worse-than-O(1) indexing, like collections.deque
And which has O(N) iteration from either end. So... basically just deque.
 
wim
3:56 PM
do you guys say "deck" or "de-queue"
 
deck.
 
wim
yeah same
 
we dont say it
 
neither. I say "de-que" in a german accent
 
wim
do you say dict or dicked
 
3:57 PM
that must mean "queue" should be pronounced "ck"
 
@wim I was actually trying to make a ♫ deque the walls with boughs of holly ♫ pun but I couldn't get further
 
dicked sounds unnecessarily extra
 
Waiting for the contrarian "well actually it's pronounced Dee Eee Queue because it's a partial acronym for 'double ended queue'"
 
I'm pretty sure the docs suggest "deck"
 
dict and "DQ" for me
 
3:58 PM
> Deques are a generalization of stacks and queues (the name is pronounced “deck” and is short for “double-ended queue”).
 
what is dict if not "dicked"? "dic"?
 
from collections import D.E.Queue
 
@MoxieBall dickt
many people have no trouble saying that
 
wim
stack or staque
 
That sounds the same as "dicked" in my head
 
3:59 PM
@wim what's the latter even? steak?
 
wim
a staaque, darling
 
dic-tuh, not dic-duh
 
@wim instructions unclear, dict stuck in a sarlacc
 
wim
ouch
 
but really, what do you mean by staaque?
 
4:05 PM
I'm hearing it as stauck
 
are you USian?
@wim does this reflect your intention? translate.google.com/#en/hu/staque%20stack
 
Yeah, I imagine other accents make it sound a bit more like stauck to begin with
 
I can barely hear a difference
 
file.startswith('hydrophobic' or 'charged') guy finally figured out that his real problem was in code that he didn't post. Who'd a thunk it...
 
4:13 PM
yo that meme is deader than that gopher
 
I come from an age when people didn't actually communicate with memes lolcats image macros
 
wim
@AndrasDeak staaque like a hipster accent (see gap yah)
 
Yes they did, it's just that "people" meant "your parents / grandma" and it was in the form of fwd: fwd: FWD: fwd: RE: fwd: re: fwd: SOO FUNNYYY!!!!!!111!!
 
DSM
That was a painful era.
 
@wim ew, thanks
 
4:18 PM
My younger cousins who live in the states keep talking in memes, saying "thicc" and "boi" for every goddamn thing and it is melting my brain
what has this country done to the younger generation
well to be fair it's not localized to just the US. But the good thing is they're banning memes in the EU soon
 
keep him far away from tide pods
 
memes will soon become black market commodity in Europe.
 
anyone who follows younger milennials on twitter knows that it's gotten to us too
 
yes Andras, show them de way.
 
it's one thicc spread on the generational spectrum
 
4:21 PM
nooo
tide pods are dead memes too. Right now, 500-600 BC boar etruscan ceramic memes are all the rage
we've also recently been enjoying a resurgence in Wakandan Knuckles
The Markiplier E Farquad confirms Despacito 2 memes are pretty popular as well, but I think they'll die out by the end of the cycle
 
To be fair, even python gets in on the memes
 
Among the fresh memes, I have my eye on "man looking sternly at screen"
 
that's just your reflection in the black loading screen
 
You could almost call it a... black mirror
 
My Internet seems to be stuck in the 90s
 
4:26 PM
ooh burn...
 
It's so fresh I can't find an example on google
 
Are you trying to start a False meme?
 
google is so June 25
 
I'll probably run into one during my lunchtime imgur trawl. Please hold.
 
"XOMG" my site is soo popular... check it out --> linky-link <--
 
4:28 PM
My Internet seems to be stuck in the 90s
 
If only my $CHOSEN_SEARCH_ENGINE didn't filter out stuff I don't care about.
 
Hey guys! Would anyone recomend me a good tutorial for tensorflow? I'm having a hard time using my trained data to analyze a new set...
 
Anyone else dislike mixing text and code with f-strings like print(f"The acronym for your phrase is {acronym(words)}.")? It took me a second to figure out that there's a function call in that line (in addition to the print call)
Would've been more readable as print("The acronym for your phrase is {}.".format(acronym(words)) IMO
 
Yes, I usually try to make use of print's default separator.
 
I'll put anything in an f string.
 
print("The acronym for your phrase is", acronym(words))
 
You lost the trailing full stop though :)
 
5:12 PM
Thanks ;)
 
Oh snap. I've become one of those "This code with a syntax error is more readable IMO" people. I blame copy/paste for losing a closing parenthesis.
 
Me reading over my homies essay to help ensure he gets the best grade possible
 
Well, f-strings let you mix code and text, so you better get used to it. ;) OTOH, I agree that it can make it hard to read, so I prefer to put long leading or trailing text outside the f-string. So print('start', f'{thing}', 'stop') rather than print(f'start {thing} stop')
 
Found it.
Python PIL can't open PDFs for some reason is kind of silly but it does raise a legitimate question: what file formats can PIL read?
[performs double take upon seeing https://pillow.readthedocs.io/en/5.1.x/handbook/image-file-formats.html#pdf]
Oh, but it's write-only.
 
@PM2Ring I'm very conflicted and can't decide if that's less or more readable D:
TIL pdf is an image format
 
5:22 PM
I mean... define "image format"
Even pngs can contain textual data
 
wim
@Kevin even a backslash? :P
 
 
@Kevin Reading general PDFs is a lot harder than writing a single image as a PDF, which just needs a little bit of wrapping around an embedded image file. However, reading PDF is easier than reading PostScript, since you need a full PostScript language interpreter for that.
 
@Kevin I tried, but I give up.
 
wim
 
5:29 PM
That's partly why PDF was invented: it's a simplified version of PostScript that's not a full Turing-complete language, and it makes no attempt to be human-readable.
 
I'd like "NO"[::-1] + "E\nFEAR" better
 
There are lots of formats that are easier to write than they are to read. pdf, HTML, oh and every programming language
 
okay, okay, golfing language
 
Oh boy, the PIL PDF question got edited to have a question completely unrelated to PIL :-I
 
5:47 PM
Code Golfing again 😊
 
Let's Go Golf: Most concise way to produce None
 
4 characters: None
 
^ Winner! 4 Quantloos for you. Is that enough? Or do you want more?
 
would zero character work :
I'm sure Python empty would produce a None
 
That's a philosophical conundrum
 
5:56 PM
>>> 0 == None
False
>>>
 
My non-snarky submission is {}.get(0)
 
Go to hell, hit enter
 
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