« first day (2641 days earlier)      last day (2310 days later) » 

DSM
4:00 PM
@PM2Ring: that sounds like the name of a British officer in the Great War.
 
I'm working on two bugs simultaneously this week. Bug A lies within a twisty maze of passages, all alike, and will in general be supremely unpleasant to fix. Bug B will almost certainly be fixed with a single line of code, but the code crashes due to Bug A before I can reach Bug B's realm.
 
DSM
You should read davidism's debugging guide! It contains much useful advice. ;-)
 
Here's an interesting link on the "say it three times" thing: volokh.com/posts/1186173317.shtml
 
It would be better in terms of office politics to finish Bug B first, since fixing two bugs at times T=1 and T=9 is more palatable to management than fixing two bugs at times T=8 and T=9
But since I'm basically fixing Bug B blindfolded and with one arm behind my back, it will be more like T=7 and T=15
Or, who knows, T=50 and T=58. Nightmare scenario.
 
DSM
4:08 PM
By the time you get to T=10 you should be thinking "rewrite" because the code is obviously unmaintainable..
 
A maze of unpleasant choices, all alike
 
recbg
 
4:25 PM
cbg all! Happy new year!
Hope you're ready to write even better python this year.
 
closed, but someone needs to reject that edit
 
on it done
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
4:37 PM
"How would you describe the Stack Overflow community?" "Knows what they want, but keeps having to describe it to everyone else."
9
 
so true it hurts
 
wim
def __getattr__(name): # to customise module level namespace <--- nice feature coming in Python 3.7 (see PEP 562)
 
the comments on the meta make me wary of opening the survey again
 
DSM
Ehh, it was fine. Bunch of demography, bunch of dev-related questions, some business-related ones like ad habits and interest in new products. Seemed reasonable enough to me.
 
Hmm, I want to take the Developer Survey, but the page fails to load
 
4:49 PM
How do I make myself want to take the survey?
 
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ you're banned for life
 
Is there a more sensible reason? :p
Or is the thing just down for kicks? Well, I'll take it later
 
I'm in the middle of it now...
 
Uff... just figured it out... it's a safari problem
Tried it on chrome and it opened.
 
Oh...it's that time of year now, ain't it?
 
4:54 PM
> safari
hm...
 
Begrudgingly looking into Bug A, it's looking more and more likely that it's caused by the actions of Past Kevin. I suspect he had a good reason to do the things he did, but unfortunately the changes made were to a local-system-wide configuration file which isn't in any source control. So no commit message exists to defend his choices.
 
Can you send past @Kevin a msg?
 
I dimly recall it may have had something to do with "let's do this the correct and actually maintainable way". The irony is palpable.
I should figure out if I can install a .git in situ in C:/Windows/Microsoft.NET/Framework without offending Visual Studio's delicate sensibilities when it finds a folder in a directory that previously did not have a folder
@piRSquared Not without violating my employee agreement.
Communicating information via tachyon antitelephone violates my NDA and also the laws of causality
 
But more importantly the NDA
 
@Kevin perhaps you should slap yourself on the face, so when next time you realize that Past Kevin had done something wrong, you'll be able to say "served you right"
 
5:03 PM
Utilitarian analysis: uncreating the universe by way of paradox is a net neutral action; getting fired is a net negative action.
 
Do you report or otherwise call out the unethical code in question?

* Yes, and publicly
* Yes, but only within the company
* No
* Depends on what it is
I want

* Yes, and depending on what it is I might do so publicly
 
DSM
I was a little confused about that. What kind of "unethical code" are we talking about? Code which secretly mines bitcoins on the client's machines?
 
one that makes prank calls to the fire department
 
Exactly! In that case. I call it out to the miner and ask for my cut.
 
DSM
"40% or I tell"
 
5:07 PM
bah, again the "wonder how many people work at my university" question :P At least there's an "I don't know" now
I'm an outlier anyway
huh, I've spent more than half my life being capable of coding
(I'll stop broadcasting my survey now)
 
DSM
I was a little unhappy when I realized what band I needed to click on. :-/
 
@piRSquared I just put "Depends on what it is" because if it's something serious like shifting the close button a little higher than what you see, making you click on something irrelevant, then yes, if it's some unethical coding practice like storing dates as ints, then no cause that would be too shameful
 
DSM
attoseconds since the epoch
 
@AndrasDeak but but it's half the fun of doing the survey, seeing what people are willing to share.
 
there's no "please don't make me rank ads because I just hate them entirely" choice :|
 
5:16 PM
This OP has an "interesting" way of organizing their code. I guess it gets around the problem that you can only have one Tkinter root window... stackoverflow.com/questions/48154867/…
 
@AndrasDeak I don't hate the concept of advertising, just the current execution
like... I like to know about new things
 
hmm, "SO chat" seems to be missing as an option in at least one place
 
but I will probably never, ever buy a new car off the lot
and yet I've seen hundreds, if not thousands of new car adverts
 
@MooingRawr I ended up putting the same
@AndrasDeak by whose standards? https://chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/40721781#40721781
 
@WayneWerner would you rather read about blogs or twitter "news" to learn new things?
 
5:21 PM
@MooingRawr about them or read them?
 
@piRSquared hmm?
 
(-:
 
"works for me" standards :P
 
@WayneWerner either or? I find I'm keeping up with new things through social means such as twitter, and reddit. And generally they will have a link for more information on them.
 
Bah, "peers". Who comprise my peers?
 
5:22 PM
one person
 
I have too many peers :D
 
Yes, got my census badge
 
how do you check cold? and gratz
 
@MooingRawr Yeah, I mean those are pretty much my favored avenues for learning more (and here)
I've occasionally found things that I wanted through traditional advertising. I think more I'd just like to hear from people who are passionate about things
 
Like... I want advertising that's like Julia Evans advertising for strace and perf and whatnot
 
@wim About time.
 
wim
I have an answer somewhere relying on that hack ...
 
I remember someone explaining that crazy talk in here
 
5:33 PM
@wim Link it so we can downvote it. :D
 
wim
@PM2Ring found it
 
@wim Ok. But it's not exactly your fault. The OP wanted to do bad things with yield, you just showed them how to make it work. And IMHO there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you make it clear that such constructions shouldn't be used in real code.
no MCVE stackoverflow.com/questions/48154867/… it's that Tkinter exec question
 
Facepalm I just wrote in an answer np.where(X == 0, X + Y, X - Y). Looks like I need more sleep.
 
omg that is so horrible
what a terrible mistake
 
wim
5:48 PM
PEP 539 may be interesting for flask maintainers
 
cabbage rolls fellow snake charmers
 
wim
...?
 
It took me a bit of time over the weekend but I finally got some nice stuff going with mocks and fixtures for my pytests
 
5:49 PM
people complaining that they really need that "feature" for reasons
 
I took a re-usable approach when crafting my fixtures....this stuff is awesome
oh @wim Do you use pytest-mocker? I found that using "mocker" throughout my fixtures and tests makes things nicer to use overall
 
something something Canadians and recycling
 
wondering if you do the same?
 
Once you really figure out fixtures pytest is so nice to work with.
 
wim
yes, I use pytest-mocker
I like that you don't have to use the context manager or the decorators
 
5:51 PM
yeah I really wanted to get fixtures down because it is always highlighted as a powerful feature of pytest
 
wim
you just patch and let teardown handle context
 
@wim yes that's exactly it!!
I wanted to understand it because of the ctx and decorator avoidance
nice
and my actual tests are now like 2-3 lines at most
it's beautiful
I would say 3/4 lines in total including the function definition
 
wim
the function definition being the important part
that's the context
 
Ehm, census badge "and supplied your profile URL" meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/361596/…
 
@wim yeah! putting in a proper name for that test to give it the right context. <3 <3
the next thing I'm looking at is trying to craft more concise test and fixture names
because now that definition is getting a bit long
 
wim
5:53 PM
the more you get used to it, the less you will have mocker as a fixture injected in tests
instead, mocker will be injected in a fixture
 
oh and another thing. Usage of pytest_plugins in conftest.py was a lifesaver to let me structure my tests however I want and not have to go through crazy amounts of imports. It's just all there for me
 
Yeah my mocker is injected in the fixture actually
 
stackoverflow.com/q/48155442/2301450 typo/no mcve, and it's upvoted
 
wim
good psychic debugging
 
5:58 PM
only losers don't use psychic abilities to debug
 
6:09 PM
I knew you were going to say that
 
I missed you too Wayne
 
6:21 PM
anyone start the survey yet?
 
Just finished it.
Kept getting distracted, so I had it open for like 3 hours.
Maybe that will mess with some metric.
 
wim
it's more market research for careers
I miss the old survey, which was packed with jokes
 
6:40 PM
Proposed new questions:

* Do you have any online compulsions?
* Do those compulsions get in the way of your productivity?
 
wim
anyone have a canonical, cross-compat way to check if something is iterable but not stringy ?
 
@wim we just did this... looking
 
wim
thx
 
not isinstance(object, str) and hasattr(object, '__iter__')
 
@wim stringy? does bytes count as one
@piRSquared fails unicode
try:
     basestring
except:
     basestring = (str, bytes)
 
6:42 PM
@AnttiHaapala blah... good to know
 
 hasattr(object, '__iter__') and not isinstance(object, basestring)
sth like that ^
most importantly: do not use the crap called six :D
 
six is bad?
 
yes. berry bombad
 
it's useless due to its traumatic phobia of seven
3
 
This is going to be one of those "Kevin thinks datetime is okay and will never remember why it isn't" things, isn't it
 
6:44 PM
@KevinMGranger exactly.
today, I've spent only 28 minutes 36 seconds bitching about datetime
 
Sorry I'm not fancy enough with my programming, gawsh
 
I am rather idealistic when it comes to programming.
there is a perfect way of doing things.
and then Python coredevs chose to implement something that is rather... like
 
I knew my coworkers were wrong when they said I had to get over that
 
@AnttiHaapala And someday the one superintelligence will show us what that looks like!
 
6:48 PM
Got another "things people believe about time" counterexample. Days don't overlap. Except in Newfoundland before 2011 when the clocks go back at 0001, resulting in 1 minute of Sunday being followed by a further 59 bonus minutes of the previous Saturday as a kind of encore.
 
clocks were a mistake
 
well, DST was/is
I am working on it :P
you should abolish it in the States too :D
DST is slavery
 
TLDR: you'll cause a lot of chaos in the short term, and end up reinventing an ad-hoc equivalent anyway in the long term
Just abolishing daylight savings seems much more reasonable however
Semi-related: I learned recently that Japan occasionally reports television show air times using a ~36 hour clock. If a show airs at 1 AM on Sunday, for example, they might list it as "Saturday 25:00"
 
I never understood why they would use such a clock ... But I'm a westerner so eh..
 
This follows conventional folk wisdom that "the day doesn't change over until after I've gone to bed". So viewers can interpret that listing to basically mean "this is something you can watch if you stay up late on Saturday evening"
 
wim
6:58 PM
@AnttiHaapala looks satisfactory, thanks
 
Based off of how many times I've come back home past midnight and was confused as to why almost everyone was on the wrong side of the street for alternate side parking, I can empathize
 
@Kevin but what if you pull an all-nighter?!
then... you can watch Good Morning Nippon at 31:00, yet, they wouldn't list the time as such
discriminatory
 
At some point the delirium caused by sleep deprivation will cause time to cease to exist as a coherent concept anyway. Whether this occurs before the 36 hour mark will vary from person to person
 
wim
@Kevin straw man
abolish DST: yay
abolish timezones: nay
 
If only he had clarified that in a later message
 
7:02 PM
Antti slyly edited the post I was snarking upon, so I claim immunity :-P
 
wim
ah, my apologies
 
We should abolish time, though, yes. That's the key to immortality
 
DSM
Then everything will happen all at once, or not at all. Seems confusing.
 
just go at light speed
 
We exist as a herniation of energy from another dimension into a dimension we colloquially call time.
 
7:06 PM
> Anything that happens, happens.

Anything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen.

Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.

It doesn’t necessarily do it in chronological order, though.
 
Oh, I think I remember that episode of doctor who
 
Hitchhiker's Guide is pretty much part of the extended Whoverse, since Douglas Adams worked on both
 
DSM
By that rule pretty much everything is just part of the Universe.
 
@DSM how can you be sure?
 
DSM
Because it's very easy to play Six Degrees with SF authors.
 
7:11 PM
Well, space is very very big. It could all be the same universe.
Any inconsistencies to do with Earth itself is explained by multiple earths.
 
Reminds me of a humorous screenshot of a conversation, which I can't find right now, but which goes like this:
Carol: for any conceivable event, there is an alternate dimension where it is happening.
Dave: but not logically inconsistent events, those can't happen.
Carol: except in dimensions where they can.
Dave: :-|
 
Meta Chat question: Why can't I reply to myself? @piRSquared
 
You can reply to yourself, you just need multiple accounts to do so
 
sure you can
 
"'yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation' yields falsehood when preceded by its quotation"
 
7:13 PM
@AndrasDeak like that
 
Just noticed that I assigned Dave to be the one to make the Davidism Face. Nice when things line up that way.
 
@piRSquared I see
But I had to url hack to do it
 
DSM
Just got the comment "how can I make a php implementation of this?" on an ancient answer. :-/
 
@DSM I'm more interested in what you're going to reply with
 
DSM
Silence is its own reply.
 
7:17 PM
Most conflicts in Doctor Who are resolved by forty minutes of running away from the problem. Hitchhiker's Guide is a thought experiment asking "how effective is this strategy if you're not The Doctor?". The result: not very, and it will take five books instead of forty minutes,
 
One could even argue that the whole learning to fly thing is learning how to run away from the ground
 
The sonic screwdriver is nice and all, but it doesn't have "DON'T PANIC" on it in large friendly letters
I solved Bug A, which was preventing me from investigating Bug B, but now when I run the program, it executes successfully without exhibiting signs of Bug B. Maybe I fixed Bug A so well that the fixedness overflowed into unrelated sections of the project.
Never mind that Bug A was entirely local to my dev environment and Bug B definitely is still occurring in production, where Bug A cannot possibly happen in any circumstance
 
today's "English why do you even" word: allspice
 
I legit thought that was a Dune reference the first five times I heard about it
 
7:26 PM
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ I love how 1337z0r has 2 rep and 43 upvotes
 
@Kevin Hungarian is much more logical in this case. Cloves are "szegfűszeg", allspice is "szegfűbors", where "szegfű" means carnations
(and "bors" is pepper)
 
"What version control systems do you use regularly?" "Copying and pasting files to network shares"
 
@Rawing Mee too!
 
prod_final_v3
 
^! now I've seen teh lite!
 
7:36 PM
I used to send emails back and forth with the "latest version".
Ah, those were the days... OF ANARCHY
 
Oh, Bug B isn't happening because there's a try{...}catch(Exception e){quietly_log(e); continue} around the whole thing >:-(
 
a bug unhappened is a bug fixed
 
Actively trying to explode my children's brains
 
DSM
Into more dimensions than Minkowski space provides, I see.
 
7:39 PM
If I have a list of dicts `my_list = [{'1200': [10, 'A']}, {'1000': [24, 'C']}, {'9564': [6, 'D']}]` and I'm trying to sort by the first item in the list value (10, 24, and 6), then which would be a better way of doing it?

`sorted(my_list, key=lambda x: next(iter(x.values()))[0])`?

Or,

`sorted(my_list, key=lambda x: list(x.values())[0][0])`?
 
half-formed joke idea: Minkowski safe spaces
 
speaking of logging, do you guys know any useful resources I could read about it? I honestly don't have the slightest idea about how to log what when... and all the beginner's guides I've seen only tell you how to use popular logging frameworks, but not what you should actually log
The logging in our group project currently looks like LOG.info("functionX called") (and that in pretty much every function that exists)
 
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ I like the look of the second one better. next gives me the willies inside a sorted call because it makes me think there's a mutation going on, even though at a rational level I know that it's not changing anything in a scope that matters
 
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ I'd go with the first one - unless you can refactor that list into something that makes more sense, like a dict. Or perhaps refactor those dicts into instances of some class.
 
I see. More than a matter of taste, I'd be interested to know which was more efficient. I'm guessing next would.
For reference, question comes from here: stackoverflow.com/questions/48156839/…
 
DSM
7:44 PM
In principle the next/iter would be more efficient, but I'd be surprised if it weren't slower for small lists.
 
next(iter(... I suspect is O(1) memory, and list(x.values()) is O(N), but for your data N is 1, so the constant multiplier is going to have a bigger impact than the complexity
So... What DSM said
 
Thanks guys
 
@cᴏʟᴅsᴘᴇᴇᴅ I'm tempted to provide a pandas answer... but I don't have time for that joke, so... What was I doing again?
 
I was once of the opinion that it was okay to provide numpy answers to python questions. The downvotes quickly proved me wrong
 
the average python user finds numpy scary and unreadable
 
7:49 PM
@piRSquared Beware of giving tesseracts to small children en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mimsy_Were_the_Borogoves
 
@Rawing I'm in a similar boat. My perception is that everyone aims for "log liberally enough that when something weird happens, most of the time you'll get useful diagnostic data without having to run the code again. Log conservatively enough that when everything is working, you're not generating a gigabyte of log files every day"
 
DSM
Sometimes numpy is the best answer for Python questions. Often it's not because it's not as robust but the syntax can be seductive, and looks like you've opened a magical box of wizardry.
 
@Rawing plus way too big to import for one little operation
 
"Where should I put my logging calls, and what should I put in my logging calls, to maximize their usefulness?" seems very much like something that can only be learned and not taught
 
like the infamous "use pandas.read_csv" suggestion
 
DSM
7:51 PM
Didn't we spend some time discussing that "human-readable logging" paper a few weeks ago?
 
DSM
IMO logging is there to aid debugging. So add what's going to make debugging easier. Entry points, exit points, branches.
 
God help you if you add logging to your double-recursive fibonacci function and call it with x=20 though :-P
 
Now you'll run out of stack space and hard drive space. Which will go first? It's a space race.
 
7:53 PM
This is an uni assignment... we implement logging to make our professors happy, and professors are most happy when you conform to their (sometimes outdated) idea of what's correct and good. If we start writing machine-readable logs, they'll probably give us a worse grade :p
 
Machine-only readable, surely?
Lots of logs are already machine-readable
 
anything is machine-readable if you try hard enough
 
@Rawing Only the professors that insist every line of code should have a comment. /* I like pancakes */
 
Yeah we had an automarking program we fed our code into, and it wanted comments. So we GAVE it comments.
 
7:55 PM
@RobertGrant That's what I meant, yeah. I guess we could implement both kinds of logs...
 
Use invisible unicode characters as delimiters/tokens so your computer can parse the data unambiguously, and humans don't even know they're there.
 
@Kevin that could be interesting
 
Then cry when you get a lot of bug reports about how everything breaks when someone copy-pastes the data
 
What's unicode for "backspace in a terminal"
 
7:56 PM
And their editor "helpfully" strips out all the computer-only bits
 
cbg Room 6.
@WayneWerner NIce.
 
@toonarmycaptain cbg!
 
cabbage @toonarmycaptain
 
DSM
8:00 PM
PHP guy from before: "forget it, I just realized what is going on, nice" -- so, good, I guess?
 
time to tag that question with php to bump your score
 
"I see what's going on - I'm vomiting because this is PHP"
 
wim
the number of times I've tried to use pathlib.Path.chdir makes me think it should be there :(
 
@WayneWerner now I'm listening to what ever else YouTube gives me that is in the opposite key than it was originally composed for. Next up: Pink Panther in a major key
 
I'm tempted to put colemak as an "ergonomic furniture or device you use on a regular basis"
 
wim
8:09 PM
@Code-Apprentice this one is good
a bit late for christmas music, but they are really beautiful in minor keys
 
@PM2Ring Thx, kids have now been exposed to the wikipedia on tesseracts. This gif is cool.
 
Don't let them watch S. Darko (Donny Darko 2). I mean, it's a bad movie.
 
@piRSquared Nice bubbly effect on the faces. I used to use a simpler version of that as an avatar somewhere many moons ago.
 
@piRSquared Is that a tessaract?
 
wim
imdb 3.6, wow
the only thing I've noticed scoring less than that was the emoji movie
 
8:14 PM
@Code-Apprentice it is. Notice the cube inside the cube when it's in the middle.
 
rbrb for lunch and errands
 
That's how you generate n-dimensional squares. You take an (n-1)-dimensional square, double it, and connect each pair of identical vertices with a new edge
Square -> 2 squares -> connect the 4 pairs of vertices for a cube. Cube -> add a larger cube -> connect the 8 pairs of vertices for a tesseract
 
Also, the 1D square is a straight line and follows the same pattern
 
I'm too lazy to prepend the 1d hypercube case
Kevined I guess :P
 
I love that tesseract animation. This is my first day back since the NY. Did anybody have a nice break?
 
8:19 PM
I was introduced to the concept of tesseracts as a youth via the "Wrinkle In Time" young adult book series. Pretty entertaining read although I remember it veering in odd directions (heh) around the "Many Waters" installment
 
That animation looks nothing like a wrinkle in time
...Kevin'd
 
Going "surprise! It was a religious allegory the whole time" in the fourth book is pretty par for course for these kinds of book series, I guess
 
@Kevin I read the original "Wrinkle In Time" when I was 10 or 11, but I didn't know there was a series. Or if I did know, I've forgotten about it. :)
 
@AndrasDeak at one time I had a link for a Rubix Tesseract...talk about mind blown!
@Kevin I remember reading up to that point where they go back in time and meet Noah. Other than that I remember very little. I plan to read the first book before the movie comes out in a couple of months.
 
Yeah, the Noah arc is what I'm referring to specifically. Struck me as a bit of a genre shift
 
8:23 PM
@Kevin so basically a gateway drug?
 
"The Noah arc"
Well done sir
 
Unintentional :-)
 
oh, I missed that, +1
@Kevin +2 then
 
The pun-generating hindbrain does not require input from my actual personality/consciousness
 
The "Wrinkle in Time" movie piques my interest. I'm looking forward to how they translate the book to the big screen. Might be somewhat nostalgic, too. Although, I remember nothing of the plot or characters.
 
8:27 PM
It's a crossover with Avengers Assemble, where timetravelling children battle mythological and modern-day gods over a tesseract
Needless to say, it's an 18 because the children don't stand a chance
 
I do remember the timetraveling and "kything"
 
I encountered tesseracts via Hyperspace by Michio Kaku
 
Oh yeah, I read that
 
Google Kythe is a source code indexer and cross-referencer which describes itself as "pluggable, (mostly) language-agnostic ecosystem for building tools that work with code". == Overview == The core of Google Kythe is in defining language-agnostic protocols and data formats for representing, accessing and querying source code information as data. Kythe relies on an instrumented build system and compilers that produce indexing information, semantic information and metadata in Kythe specified format. This information obtained from running an instrumented build is stored in a language-agnostic graph...
TIL ^
Seems there are Wrinkle in Time fans working at Google.
although it isn't mentioned in the Wikipedia article
@RobertGrant I'm not up on my comic book mythos...took several reads to understand what you said.
 
I wrote it in a silly way that's hard to parse
Apologies
 
8:38 PM
and even harder to parse when my knowledge of the Avengers is limited to the Cinematic Universe...and I'm not even well versed on that, either.
 
Yeah, mine is also limited to that :)
 
I finally watched Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol 2 this weekend.
I haven't seen most of the movies since Thor 2. I'd be caught up by now, but they are only available on Netflix's DVD service, not streaming.
 
Yeah, GotG2 was pretty bad
 
I enjoyed it.
Other than the very hokey physics
 
DSM
Except for all the parts that were great, which made up most of the movie, I agree with RG.
 
8:46 PM
:)
 
Like Gamorah holding Drax's safety tether while traveling at (sublight?) spaceship speeds
 
I thought GotG was even more disorganized than TLJ
 
It seemed like an accidental parody of GotG
 
what did?
 
GotG2
I do hold GotG in extremely high regard, though, so perhaps it'd be impossible to top
Case in point: the title sequence, which, while very enjoyable, was a bit like that moment in every Dreamworks film where they get their animated characters to dance, and you sigh and wish you were watching a Pixar film, because it's a dumb thing done well rather than a good thing.
(I apologise for my grumpiness)
 
DSM
8:50 PM
I appreciate it, actually, makes it easier for me to set your foolish GotG2 opinion aside. ;-)
 
I liked Groot's dance sequence
 

« first day (2641 days earlier)      last day (2310 days later) »