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1:18 AM
I got passionfruit gelato and y'all are jealous
 
I got passionfruit gelato infinity
 
 
3 hours later…
Cro
4:25 AM
how can I install tensorflow with amd firepro gpu support?
no one could answer or there's no one here?
 
5:23 AM
What do you guys think, is this too broad? stackoverflow.com/questions/44643964/…
 
Your expression calls series.first_valid_index() twice - is that a time-consuming function? Can you come up with a way to call it only once?
I see someone has already posted an answer - looks pretty promising
@Cro - have you read this question stackoverflow.com/questions/37892784/… ?
 
6:12 AM
Cbg
 
@AndrasDeak Andras is a robot too. You don't sleep
 
6:37 AM
With each passing day questions on SO sound more like "help, I can't ****ing google" to me
5
 
6:58 AM
Is there a way I could use the dictionary sequence intact while traversing ?
With a dictionary sequence like that :
ls={'m':1, 'a':2, 'l':5,'b':10}
I have even tried OrderedDict(), but no success
 
I don't see why OrderedDict wouldn't work
of course, you can't convert a (unordered) dict to an OrderedDict. You have to create it as an OrderedDict.
 
so in order for me to get it in correct sequence, i have to initialize the OrderedDict() at the same place where I am declaring the values ?
 
yes
 
because thats the only thing that I haven't tried yet, as the changes are to be made at a lot of places
 
wait wait wait, hold up
wherever you're doing ls = {} or ls = dict() or ls = {'m':1, 'a':2, 'l':5,'b':10}, that's the only thing you need to change
you don't have to modify all of the code that adds values to the dict
 
7:08 AM
>>> ls=OrderedDict({'p':123, 'a':345, 'i':432,'b':1231})
>>> ls
OrderedDict([('a', 345), ('p', 123), ('b', 1231), ('i', 432)])
now this is a problem here, it orders it without permission...kinda !!
 
Because you're creating it as a dict
{'p':123, 'a':345, 'i':432,'b':1231} is a dict.
you're throwing away the order, and then turning it into an OrderedDict
 
do I need to put inside a list to keep it in the order I want ?
 
Either that, or put in the values one at a time
 
well thats a lot of work, but I guess if thats the only solution then I can't run away from it
 
ls= OrderedDict([('p', 123), ('a', 345)])

# or:
ls= OrderedDict()
ls['p']= 123
ls['a']= 345
 
7:33 AM
cbg
 
8:19 AM
Cabbage
@Rawing And answering becomes more a “here, this is what I learned from googling.”
 
google indexes SO in real time, and SO manually indexes google through volunteer labour
9
 
xD
 
I had like 8 terminal windows open monitoring logs. A coworker of mine asked what are those I explained her for like 5 minutes and her question was: Why is the text green?
 
@khajvah That's a natural reaction. Ordinary people are scared when they see a terminal window, and even more so if the text in it is green - she's probably assuming you're a hacker now.
 
haxor
 
h4xX0r
 
9:40 AM
But if she wants a sensible answer, the lower contrast of green text on a black background (I hope your background IS black!) reduces the contrast and therefore eyestrain.
 
Background should be red for maximum confusion
 
Cro
9:58 AM
can someone give me a code example that does udp live streaming with error correction code and gtk?
sorry gtk should be tkinter
 
pretty sure nobody here has a udp live streaming program just lying around, especially not one that uses tkinter
 
Cro
can you show me the not tainted one?
can you show me the not tkinter one?
 
I don't have one, with or without tkinter
 
Cro
can you show me someone>?
sorry auto correction fault
can you show me code example of udp data transmitting with error correction?
 
Stupid recruiters.. “Your Xing profile caught my attention bla bla bla” – I don’t have a Xing profile
 
10:10 AM
@Cro Unlikely that anyone will have such a program - the natural choice for reliable transmission is TCP.
 
Cro
then just show me something about data transmitting error correction
tcp will lag during live streaming
 
@Cro Please note that neither SO nor this chat are a “give me code” service. If you didn’t find examples using Google, chances are very high that nobody here will be able to give you one as well. You are welcome to ask questions about specific problems you encounter while working on something yourself, but please refrain from repeatedly asking for some code.
 
Cro
ok
 
In addition, live streaming is kind of a complex topic, so I doubt this would even remotely work with some simple code snippets. And in addition to actually streaming the data as a client, the server has an even more complex job. And without knowing how the server works, what protocols it uses etc, it’s impossible to say anything about the client.
That being said, if you want video livestreaming, you could look into HLS which is a TCP and HTTP based streaming protocol, which is not too difficult to implement.
 
Cro
but lagging
 
10:16 AM
that depends on the video bitrate and your internet connection...
and latency too I guess
 
Cro
because of my internet connection i'm using udp
i'll give it a try by giving away the bad part
 
Anybody know about PYQT

how we can convert PYQT script standalone
so that I can run pyqt script from terminal
 
10:37 AM
@Cro: you look quite young on your avatar so out of curiosity, how old are you?
 
say anything above 13
like, seriously
especially if that's the truth
 
(profile says “Nan Hu elementary school”, so I wouldn’t get my hopes up Andras)
 
@holdenweb happy birthday mate
 
@Cro for your information: people under the age of 13 can't be users of Stack Overflow. If anyone discovers that a user is below 13, they have to destroy the account. Whether they like it or not. So...nobody should probably want to admit to being under 13.
 
@Jon What would we do without you, when nobody else is looking at the birthday list.
Happy birthday @holdenweb
 
10:42 AM
happy birthday :)
 
@AndrasDeak Is that really true..?
 
Yes.
US law to protect the privacy of children
awesome thing against predators, awful for a site like SO
 
What kind of sites does this apply to?
 
you can't store any data whatsoever online about underages (meaning <13)
The Children's Online Privacy Protection Act of 1998 (COPPA) is a United States federal law, located at 15 U.S.C. §§ 6501–6506 (Pub.L. 105–277, 112 Stat. 2681-728, enacted October 21, 1998) 19 years ago. The act, effective April 21, 2000, applies to the online collection of personal information by persons or entities under U.S. jurisdiction about children under 13 years of age. It details what a website operator must include in a privacy policy, when and how to seek verifiable consent from a parent or guardian, and what responsibilities an operator has to protect children's privacy and safety online...
 
@poke If an SO mod finds out someone is under 13, they're kinda obliged to report it to the CM's for a "different delete" than a mod deletion can do
 
10:43 AM
@poke US ones
 
interesting
 
ironically, if users want to participate and don't want to "report it" - then there's no obligation - it's one of those weird things where if you can claim you didn't know - it's fine.
 
yup, don't ask don't tell works
 
crazy stuff
 
I assume there's some ToS tick that says that "I'm over 13" but who reads that :P
 
10:46 AM
Guess I’m lucky SO wasn’t around when I started programming ^^"
 
@poke there's even a separate option on the "Message the CM team" as to about a user that's specific to that legislation... sadly, they have to take it seriously - it's either they do sign up requiring consent and prove that consent, or just not allow it
 
there's some discussion on meta, probably overmeta
whether parent can register for the child, etc.
it sucks because this usually comes up when an unknowing <13-year-old gets nuked, leaving everyone frustrated
these eager kids are the best thing that could happen to the programming community in the long run
 
oh I agree
just do what I did when I was a kid and wanted smokes or booze - get fake id! :p
 
hehe :D
bad luck: you still look like a pupper
 
@Jon So you’re just wearing that ninja mask to fake your age, huh
 
10:50 AM
is that 13 years in dog years or in human years?
 
@poke or maybe just hiding the horrible scratches I received trying to protect the humans from the kitten invasion a few years ago? :p
 
“A few years ago” – I’ve seen you less than a few years ago without that mask, don’t lie :P
 
@Rawing True? :p
 
'13 years' in dogYears or in humanYears would actually be a syntax error
 
@AndrasDeak oh that's good - you didn't read the room rules that said in white text on white background: "we own your soul - with love - the Dark Council"? :p
 
10:53 AM
Hi guys, I was wondering if there are any Python guidelines on how to write str. Is it good style to keep things on a single line or?
 
__str__ is kind of do-whatever-you-want
 
@JonClements ruh-roh
 
There’s not even a clear guideline for __repr__ although that’s more often than not expected to be “runnable code” (with runnable being in very big quotes)
 
yeah, for instance numpy.ndarrays love to occupy more than one line especially for multidimensional arrays
>>> print(t([xx,xx+10]))
[[ 0  2  4]
 [10 12 14]]
 
@AndrasDeak oh gawd - I was contemplating a picture change...
 
10:59 AM
Ok, I guess that is up in the air then :)
I was more thinking if the output was used somewhere else, it might be better to keep stuff on a single line.
 
depends on your object, I guess
 
are there any guidelines for repr?
 
You probably wouldn't try to put a 2d array into a sentence anyway. It's not tnetennba after all.
@mortenvp AFAIK "ideally the __repr__ should contain enough information to reproduce your object", as poke said it's even better if it's runnable
>>> print(t)
[[ 0  2  4]
 [10 12 14]]
>>> print(repr(t))
array([[ 0,  2,  4],
       [10, 12, 14]])
I know there are more than enough examples where a proper __repr__ is lacking
 
>>> repr(object())
'<object object at 0x000000FEC9B201A0>'
 
Ok, thanks for the input.
 
11:04 AM
Best example that the repr return value isn’t always runnable or useful to recreate the object :P
 
@poke although - if can be - then why not?
 
In general, if you can, make it executable to recreate the object. If you can’t, make it as useful as possible by providing as much relevant information about your object as you can
 
cue functions and generators
 
For example, a user object might return something like User(id=123, name='Foobar') which is “enough” to reproduce it (using the user id), and has information for the user to process it (using the name). – Even though such a constructor may not exist
@JonClements if it can be what?
 
11:06 AM
an evaluable object...
 
Don’t ask me, ask the stdlib authors :P
 
but then - apart from well defined (and mostly builtin types) - best not to try it anyway
 
Yeah, you will fail pretty fast :P
 
wow... I'd never heard of this before, but kudos to my brother - I actually quite like it: youtube.com/watch?v=iLXNsjZakmM
 
11:22 AM
@JonClements with all these cryptocurrencies and electronic money, more and more things will be e-valuable :>
 
🙄
 
@khajvah there's clearly a 6-hour gap in my activity graph. Need to recharge I guess
 
12:02 PM
woop woop just got rejected from Facebook
not even an interview
 
12:44 PM
@khajvah don't feel bad, those pre-interviews are never very good anyway... smartest guy I know got rejected from twitter before even an on-site interview
 
1:21 PM
@khajvah aww:( I'm sorry to hear that
 
cbg
 
o/
 
1:36 PM
Also, I know at least for Google it's like an average of 8 tries or something?
 
@khajvah I asked to a friend of mine who was doing for her PhD a few years ago, if it is better to be prepared when luck comes or just prayed for the luck to come and when it comes, not be prepared enough
 
Also, you better love whiteboarding
 
@WayneWerner yeah people in my area have a somewhat negative view of google because they find them to be elitist, and also their interview process to be relatively favoritist towards certain groups
 
@WayneWerner 8 tries ? lol
 
I had one try at Google 10 years ago
failed at their test
 
1:48 PM
Thoughts on this current food category distribution? Anything worth adding? Beverages, Condiments, Dairy, Fast Food, Fats, Fish, Fruit, Grains, Junk Food, Meat, Nuts, Other, Poultry, Supplements, Vegetables
 
Pizza
 
Heh... reminds me of a thing I saw recently...
 
:D
 
2:04 PM
Cabbage
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
For reasons that I'm not quite able to articulate, I decided a couple of days ago that it'd be fun to write a program that could grab an SO chat message from the transcript & print it in the shell. I almost wrote something quick & dirty using regex, but I resisted the temptation. Besides, I'm all regex'ed out, after doing that Batman program in sed. ;)
But I didn't want to use a 3rd-party library, so I refreshed my knowledge of the HTMLParser module, which I haven't touched for 6 years (and which is now called html.parser). To get myself started, I wrote a simple HTML dump program.
 
*claps* I never could figure out how to use the HTMLParser module. But -10 points for using percent-formatting!
 
It will also parse a single section from a file. Just pass it a chunk of the file that starts with the start of that section, and it'll stop parsing when it gets to the matching end tag.
@Rawing :p The original version uses f-strings, but I changed it to %- formatting for those that don't have 3.6. FWIW, %-formatting is faster than the format method or function. But f-strings can be faster than the old ways.
And here's its big brother, the chat parser. It's not perfect: it inserts a couple of unwanted spaces in a few non-critical places, but it doesn't mess up code blocks.
If you think that code looks scary, take a look at the HTML it has to parse. :) Actually, the chat transcript HTML is rather well-structured, but there's quite a bit of variation in what those "content" divs can contain.
 
DSM
2:23 PM
I-almost-wish-there-was-no-timeit cabbage for all!
 
time to timeit.timeit for it to be timeit?
 
Greetings, DSM. What's wrong with timeit? I guess it can encourage some people to waste time & energy on pointless micro-optimizations.
 
DSM
@PM2Ring: full points. I've seen people "ooh" and "aah" and use a manifestly uglier approach because it saved them 150 microseconds on something they'll do a hundred times in their program.
 
Of course, I wouldn't do that sort of thing (says the guy whose written over 40 timeit test scripts).
 
list retrieval is n = 10 max? better warm up that binary search
 
2:28 PM
@PM2Ring No joke. Today I saw someone comment "You should time if {'a': self.a, 'b':self.b}[name]() is faster than if name=='a': self.a() else self.b()".
 
@Rawing It wouldn't surprise me if the 1st is marginally faster, but the 2nd is definitely more readable.
 
DSM
My opinions on optimizing Python code are, of course, no secret..
 
Some of my timeit tests were written purely to create hard evidence of stuff that I was already certain of, eg that it's faster to do membership tests of a set than of a list. New programmers should be aware of that stuff, and also have an idea of how it scales, so they don't waste time building a set from their 5 element list purely to do a membership test on it.
 
"Hmm, why does my laptop say it's 98 degrees (C) hot? Oops, ipython's been working for half an hour"
 
But sometimes the results are surprising, eg that in Python 2 shuffling with the random.shuffle function is slower than using Timsort with a random key.
 
2:41 PM
Cbg
 
DSM
I don't know what the current state is, but I think it used to be a little faster to do one-off membership tests on small literals if they were tuples or something. So you had a bunch of people using tuples where they shouldn't (conceptually, anyway).
Then I think (can't remember because this isn't the sort of thing I care much about!) they changed this so set literals were as fast, and then _that_ became the new standard. Or something. The differences, of course, were completely trivial.
 
jjj
cbg. anyone here uses gensim?
 
there was something about sets being fastest?
 
a bit late but about __str__: IMO the best option is to not use it at all unless you /really/ need your object to look like a string
it's a huge debugging nightmare if you print some object and it looks like a string even though it's not
 
@ThiefMaster Or use it like Java's toString
 
wim
2:46 PM
Struggling to see how that could be a huge debugging nightmare? You would be looking at __repr__ there
 
the DSM school is consistent with that statement
 
wim
objects that override repr for no good reason, however, do provide a minor debugging annoyance ..
 
@wim if you use print you get the __str__, not the __repr__
and yes, for many cases adding print statements to the code is much faster than using a debugger!
 
he probably means print(repr())
 
@AndrasDeak Sets are definitely the fastest if the collection is large, being O(1) (amortized) instead of O(n). And yes, small sets are pretty damn fast these days. But if your collection is small, and you need it to be a list or tuple anyway because you need it to be ordered &/or indexable, it can waste more time building a set from it just to do a couple of searches than the time you save from using a set.
 
2:48 PM
@ThiefMaster write your class name in front of the str string
 
Plus it adds clutter to the code, and wastes development time. But if your collection length > 100 and you're going to do lots of searches, then you should build that set (or dict).
 
wim
huh? in interactive debugger you just type the name of the obj, which gives you the repr
 
@ThiefMaster If the object is in a list, then printing the list gives the repr of the object.
 
@khajvah then it's completely useless and you should probably use __repr__ ...
 
@PM2Ring yeah I remember this coming up with literals, micro-optimizing for val in {'a','b','c'}: ...
 
2:49 PM
@PaulMcGuire yes, if it's in a list, but not if you just print a single object
 
wim
or you use the watch window in pycharm
adding print statements to the code for debugging is totally n00b
 
and with a literal you always construct it exactly once
 
@ThiefMaster why? it helps to debug. wanna log/print valuable information about hte object
 
@khajvah that's what __repr__ is much more suitable for!
@wim it's called being practical/efficient. a print is looked at quickly, and often more than enough. a debugger OTOH interrupts the flow since you probably end up breaking or even get a new window (e.g. with wdb opening a browser window to debug)
 
@ThiefMaster that rb is missing an rb
 
2:52 PM
that's fine if it's in a dump_data() like method. but way too bloated for __str__ (even __repr__ in my opinion)
@AndrasDeak haha yeah, it's awful legacy code that's been rewritten in the meantime
 
yesterday, by Andras Deak
you guys need a userscript that warns for lack of tags before hammering :(
 
wim
well much better programmers than myself use print statements for debug but I still think it's a n00b workflow
 
I volunteer @poke to finally write that userscript.
 
hah
does that mean you volunteer your own time, or my time?
 
2:55 PM
yours, what else?
 
DSM
@wim: nice to know I'm not alone, anyway..
Apr 2 '16 at 23:41, by DSM
My debugger is print(type(obj), repr(obj)). Works every time.
 
@AndrasDeak So I read into that correctly… *sigh*
 
@vaultah self-duped now :)
 
Would you help me though?
 
@AndrasDeak I voted for unclear anyway
 
2:55 PM
@poke you could actually have my time, but I don't know any JS :D
@vaultah oh :D
 
@ThiefMaster When a string is not a string, disturbing things can happen...
Apr 11 at 19:21, by PM 2Ring
class NotStr(str):
    def __hash__(self): return id(self)

print({NotStr('spam'): i for i in range(4)})
#output
{'spam': 0, 'spam': 1, 'spam': 2, 'spam': 3}
 
@Andras Can you try to figure out how to get the list of gold badges for yourself?
From a page that is not your profile with the badge list..? ^^"
 
Time for a stupid question. Does installing too many python libraries using pip cause any performance issues with execution..
Just asking since I am learning python and I am on a roll and installing everything using Pip so was just wondering
 
@poke I can always try :D
 
Then please do
 
2:59 PM
although gold tag badges are fairly rare for most people so perhaps a config-based initial version might work too, first ;)
 
@Anarach No, it really doesn't matter
 
Just got my first "Good answer" silver badge :D
 
But that would mean there would have to be a way to configure it first and a way to store that.
 
@Rawing They why does everyone suggest using a Virtual env?
 
DSM
To keep your different library sets out of the way of each other. Some packages are incompatible, etc., etc.
 
3:00 PM
@poke yeah:( Why is "your profile with the badge list" inappropriate? Hard to parse?
 
I mean mostly all tuts on the web start with the person logging on to a VENV which i dont understand
 
@AshishNitinPatil Well done!
 
@PM2Ring Melon!
 
DSM
Today is looking up! The office kitchen restocked its tea supply and we're no longer out of chai! #Tuesdaywin
 
@Andras I mostly meant that whatever way it is should work on any page, not just the profile page which conveniently lists the badges. If that method ends up being an AJAX request to the profile page then be it :/
 
3:01 PM
@DSM Oh.. So I am assuming there are no issues with not using Venv right? Unless you are going to use some libs which might not be compatible with others.
 
@Anarach That I cannot answer. I've never needed or used a virtualenv. You'll have to ask more experienced programmers than me.
 
@poke okie dokie
 
But maybe we can query the API for that, I don’t know if there’s some API key we can use while on SO
 
I'm looking at exactly the api
hmm, one needs an "access token" whatever that is
 
@Rawing Same here. No one explains why you should always use VENV , to me its a pain in the arse lol..
 
DSM
3:03 PM
@Anarach: it's still a good habit to get into. I admit it's less of a problem if you're on a system which doesn't use Python as part of its basic architecture, but on Linux, if you start installing things into the system Python you can really get yourself into trouble.
 
I actually think venv is counter productive since you have to keep track of whatever you installed for one env and if you are doing another project in another location you have to painstakingly install all the libs one by one all over again!!
@DSM oh?? didnt know that , never used linux ..
 
DSM
If by "painstakingly install" you mean type one line, your definition of painstaking is unusually broad..
 
"I think {thing} is counter-productive because I don't know how to use {thing}."
 
would a virtualenv help with the python2/python3 problem on linux?
 
What problem?
 
3:07 PM
@DSM I mean , installing libraries in every new venv for similar projects..
 
well, some programs need python 2 to work, and some stupid things happen every now and then. System upgrade reverts the python command to python2, pip installs modules for python2 per default... that kind of stuff
 
2 mins ago, by davidism
"I think {thing} is counter-productive because I don't know how to use {thing}."
 
@Rawing no.
you just don't override "python" with python 3
you either use python3, or... *gasp* a virtualenv
 
@Anarach pip maintains a cache of stuff you download. You don't download it for each new virtual environment.
 
@Rawing if you use the command you actually mean, that's not a problem. But yes, a virtualenv maps python to the Python it's created for.
 
DSM
3:10 PM
I regularly swap between environments (as I've occasionally complained about, there's one team I work with still using 2.7) and it makes my life quite simple.
 
Definitely don't mess with the system symlinks, it's the same problem as messing with the system libraries.
 
DSM
(36) dsm@winter:~$ python --version
Python 3.6.1 :: Continuum Analytics, Inc.
(36) dsm@winter:~$ source activate 27
(27) dsm@winter:~$ python --version
Python 2.7.13 :: Continuum Analytics, Inc.
 
@PM2Ring Ok , this i dont understand, Whern i create a new VENV and type "Pip freeze" it shows nothing..but my default python has tons of packages installed in it..
 
So when you say it maintains a cache what are you meaning?
 
3:13 PM
> You don't download it for each new virtual environment.
This is getting silly.
 
DSM
A "cache" is a typically-hidden store of data for performance reasons. It doesn't mean that every virtualenv will inherit the same libraries, that goes against the whole point.
 
"Download" is different than "install".
 
@DSM I understood that we create a venv so that we can have seperate dependencies for each project , what i am trying to understand is what if I have to create a new Venv with a similar project which i already did using another Venv , I now have to install all the Packages for this new Venv right? But if i dont use a Venv i dont have to install everything no matter how many times i create a project
SORRY!!, forgot about the "pip install -r"
I am an idiot
Apologies
Venv makes sense lol..
I am now going to shoot myself in the head .. !!
 
@Andras I’m parsing the badges list now… >_>
(and yes, I’m “working” on it although I really shouldn’t do it right now xD)
 
@poke wait, which one? not the api?
don't do a hard one now, I can keep looking later
 
3:26 PM
not the API, don’t have an API key around
and I really don’t want to make an “application” just for a user script
 
but we had to try the fixed espresso machine :P
@poke ah, right, these api keys keep coming up with bots
 
And btw. by saying “I’m parsing the list now” I mean: It’s working, I’m done with it.
 
as I don't have any gold badges, there's no rush for me whatsoever :P
 
oh snap thanks for reminding me, office got a new espressor machine on this floor
I know that's a typo but it's a cool one so I'm not fixing it brb
 
3:41 PM
@Andras …
 
yes? :D
 
I might be theoretically done.
 
(I can't find a documented way to get badges btw)
@poke \o/
theoretical kudos
Next step: establish a connection between users so that the userscript can prompt the other user for a tag edit
that might be borderline abusive so stay on this side of the border :P
 
no…
>_<
 
you need something to do tomorrow as well :D
 
3:44 PM
I actually have a day job
 
does it load the profile/&tab=badges page?
 
Even if it doesn’t look like it
 
3:58 PM
Okay, have a working prototype now. @Andras
Just need to make it pretty
 
wooooo :)
 
Speaking of dupe-hammering, there are 4 suggestions here, but none of them really answer the OP's question because he wants the password to print as asterisks, not be blank. OTOH, that's not easy to do, or advisable, and the OP has gone AWOL... stackoverflow.com/questions/44657215/…
 
usually better to not display anything at all while typing the pass
 
Is "don't show password length while it's being typed" actual security, or just security theater? While we're at it let's require all passwords to have three instances of !@#$%^&* but not any of ()\/
 
DSM
Ehh, I kind of like seeing the dots. And any password for which knowing its length provides any actual advantage to the attacker is a terrible password to begin with.
 
4:07 PM
Knowing the length is always an advantage. But usability-wise it's incredibly confusing.
 
I think knowing the length, in practice, conveys some useful information as to what kind of attacks are probably worth prioritizing
 
My Windows login shows the dots. My work internal portal login shows the dots. The ATM at the corner store shows the dots and beeps incredibly loudly per pin number entered.
 
Hi, I'm looking for people to help me on writing a lightweight Factoid Question Answering Engine for my project Dragonfire. The Q&A engine will follow the similar design pattern with YodaQA.
 
@mertyildiran sounds interesting
 
On a related note, increasing the length of a password is much more effective than increasing the size of the set of symbols used. The only benefit of adding punctuation marks or non-ASCII chars to a password is to make simple dictionary attacks a bit harder.
 
4:09 PM
If the attacker is in the room with you peeking at your monitor, he can just as easily simply peek at your keyboard and get your full password instead of just the length. If the attacker is watching your monitor remotely, how incompetent is he that he infected your computer with a trojan monitor-watcher and not a keylogger
 
@Ajax1234 if you want to try my project install it with pip install -e . (package on PyPI is broken right now)
 
DSM
Hence "actual". Yes, if you know my password length is 12, it means you don't have to look at all passwords of length from 1 to 11, but that's trivial for anyone who can do 12 anyway.
In [18]: import string

In [19]: q = string.printable[:-5]

In [20]: len(q)
Out[20]: 95

In [21]: len(q)**12
Out[21]: 540360087662636962890625

In [22]: sum(len(q)**i for i in range(12))
Out[22]: 5748511570879116626496
 
@Ajax1234 also check YodaQA it out it's a brilliant project.
 
I will, thanks!
 
I just don't see what the plausible attack vector is where it would make a difference. Attacker is peering through your office window which is small enough to reveal your monitor but not your keyboard, despite them being three inches apart?
Attacker is watching you give a presentation where your monitor is displayed on the projector but the keyboard is obscured by the podium, and for some reason you log in after being hooked up to the projector instead of before?
 
4:12 PM
@Ajax1234 after that tell me if you are willing to help. Thank you so much.
 
To play the devil's advocate for a moment: Visually, it's easier to get a sense of length from how many stars were entered, compared to trying to follow their fingers if they're fast
 
but, but, xkcd taught me that (number of english words)**4 makes for a great password!
 
> Keyword arguments should not be used because the function may use them in unexpected ways.
Found this pointed out on Twitter. What's that about?
 
DSM
@MarcusS: but my point is that knowing the length shouldn't give anyone a material advantage.
 
randrange is not only classically random, it's also monkey cheese random.
 
4:14 PM
Fair warning, I'm stealing Kevin jokes to sound cooler on Twitter.
 
'K
 
@DSM No, probably not, I agree -- but it does simplify the parameters / search space a bit and saves some time, which may or may not be negligible depending on the attacker's patience
no reason to make it any easier for them
 
@davidism randrange keywords should not be used, or keywords in general?
 
Just randrange.
 
@davidism It's just like with range: if you only give 1 arg it's the stop arg, not the start arg, so the function has to do stupid things to make that happen. FWIW, here's the source, it's quite short.
 
@PM2Ring so if you specify range(start=10) it actually means range(stop=10), the later isn't legal because it's missing a positional arg.
 
What I was saying before about password length vs symbol set length:
>>> n=26**8; 36**8//n, 26**10//n
(13, 676)
 
@mertyildiran I am willing to help. What needs to get done?
 
concerning password dots: our school or university computers showed 3x dots per character entered...didn't make cracking any harder, but made the life of regular users such as myself miserable
 
@davidism Yes.
 
4:21 PM
Wonderful.
 
@Ajax1234 let's switch to our Gitter room: gitter.im/DragonComputer/Lobby
 
DSM
@AndrasDeak: you never know, maybe there are crypto wizards out there who can't divide by three.
 
it was perfect for confusing me when I was entering my password :|
 
DSM
I have a defense against the 5$ wrench attack: I barely remember my passwords at the best of times. It's all muscle memory, which will fade after they bash me a few times.
 
A little while ago, someone mentioned their computer overheating. That reminded me of a question I saw last night. The OP was doing a modified version of Collatz, dividing by 4 instead of 2. His starting number had over a dozen digits, but he was puzzled that his while loop had been running for over two days without a result. If he had written it properly, with while x > 0 instead of while x != 1 it would've run to completion in less than half a second. :)
 
4:27 PM
that might have been me
cruised back to 60 degrees since
probably not the main profile here, but interesting none the less:
21
Q: Setting Up a HackerOne Security Bug Bounty Program

animusonWe at Stack Overflow are interested in setting up a security bug bounty program to begin rewarding users monetarily who report serious security vulnerabilities to us, and we want to know what the community thinks. This program will be run through HackerOne where we are currently testing features ...

 
Python 3 is now default on Heroku! ✨🍰✨
 
Stupid emojis!!!! 🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨🔨
 
<unicode table flip>
 
4:42 PM
Why isn’t this stupid hammer colorable?!
 
is anything colorable on SO chat?
 
"Emojisssss can be good"
                               \
                              🐍
I give up
 
@poke it's colored for me, I'm using github.com/eosrei/twemoji-color-font
 
colored, yes. It’s gray for me too
But I cannot color it
 
Awwwww I found my new spirit animal 🐌
 
4:44 PM
@AndrasDeak there needs to be a table and upside-down table in the next Unicode version.
 
I.e. <span style="color: red">🔨</span> does not do anything.
 
It probably works if you're using Symbola or another line-art emoji font.
Not that that really helps.
 
I think it's stripped on the SO level
I believe I have symbola installed
 
I’m going to be frustrated now and head home.
rhubarb
 
rhubarb :(
 
4:46 PM
rbrb
 
before I installed symbola I only saw boxes instead of sneks, so it should be relevant
If I edit the html in firefox to contain that span tag, the hammer becomes red
 
We're talking about in general, not on SO chat, which doesn't support HTML.
 
I just discovered that the Unicode box drawing chars don't work too well in chat, either. chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/37725956#37725956
 
If you want "red hammer" then this is pretty close ☭
 
да
 
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