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wim
12:12 AM
why are you pinging me
 
I thought you liked code smell:(
I think I heard you mention it twice in a few days, and I had never heard the expression before
but I can only find the one in the transcript, so it might not have been you the first time
rhubarb
 
12:27 AM
rbrb
 
12:49 AM
Subjectively, would you implement a RotN cipher (with some mild weirdness of alphabet orderings) using a looped doubly-linked-list or byte math? Writing in Go which makes the byte math easy-ish, and also has a stdlib collections/ring. This is a toy for a programming puzzle
Execution speed isn't a factor (or else byte math is almost certainly faster)
 
1:18 AM
Cabbage
 
cbg
 
cbg
 
DSM
@everybody but Marcus: cabbage! @MarcusS: ffaa8cbde40e3a0d87e7f10ba273e959
 
1:36 AM
@AdamSmith Um, this is the Python room. The obvious way to do that in Python is with str.translate, or a dict if you want to do it the long way.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:41 AM
@DSM D:
 
 
1 hour later…
4:07 AM
Cbg
 
 
2 hours later…
5:38 AM
Ok thanks for this but it's a school project, and I can't use some of the functions u're currently using.. Do u think stty could work with a execv — Romain-p 5 hours ago
lol wtf is this with these schools now?
 
5:54 AM
Hmm I have a custom logger class (derived from the built in logging) defined in a module. The last line of the module is logging.setLoggerClass(Logger) (module scope) I wonder if this is really cool or actually terrible. - It makes each module that imports mylogger to automatically use the newly created logger, so I remove code duplication across all modules in a project.
On the other hand it really hides what's going on, as the import by itself performs business logic.
And the imports would only be used for this logic (rest of module would use the standard logging functions).
 
6:27 AM
morning cbg
@AnttiHaapala you're up relatively early
Or late?
 
what's going on with this world
everybody is doing JavaShit
 
Yes, join us.
 
I do Javascript too :(
but not much
 
I've found JS a little less painful these days
 
the weird thing is, I am faster at writing and testing "verbose" Java than Javascript.
 
6:33 AM
...After you've waded through all the "yeah you need <some build tool> that <translates> and ..."
 
and the stupid type system
 
@IljaEverilä early
I've found JavaShit to live up to its name.
 
the only selling point is the async stuff but Python has that so why not just use Python
 
6:45 AM
cbg
 
7:09 AM
I'm not sure, apart from stackoverflow's jobs, in real life I really don't see any jobs focussed on javascript - neither is it part of any study curriculum. Where python is standard for the technical fields, R for medical and java for CS.
 
there are a shitload of jobs focused on javascript - only.
 
Oh and (CS-related) job offers posters at the uni always have either java or C# as requirement.
 
not really any python-related
 
@paul23 you haven't done web developemnt
 
the python-related jobs have been of the "If you will employ me, I will use Python" type
 
7:11 AM
Well I just tell you what I see hanging around the halls of our university.
 
the web is mostly js
 
Everyone knows the Dutch are weird;)
Teaching in a sec cbg
 
Seems asp.net is the number 1 requirement. "at least 3 year experience with C# and asp.ent and rudiment javascript knowledge"
 
"you have this cool new project idea. Nice, do it with Node.js"
"it's webscale"
 
Cue that awesome webscale video
 
7:15 AM
Btw I consider matlab & python to be "the same requirements" nowadays: if I ever see a python requirement it is always a group that is moving from matlab to python and need to transform their libraries.
 
More power to them
 
No I mean: whenever a job listing requires python, it requires matlab knowledge - and vise versa. (At least if they list it as requirement instead of just "we work with...").
 
7:30 AM
Cabbage :-)
 
 
1 hour later…
8:58 AM
cbg
 
cbg
 
hey Bhargav
 
\o Andy
 
@paul23 learn matlab then?:P
 
9:41 AM
cabbage
@paul23 I think your field must be fairly specialised - while it's true that Python is being much more widely used in Data Science now, many applications have no need of analytic capabilities, and have never used Matlab
 
I've never seen matlab as a requirement outside university classes :D
that is to say, some require it but it never caught my eye...
 
10:14 AM
@AnttiHaapala You are not a scientist, you should learn data science
 
I am an engineer.
 
we still love you
 
I dream to become an architect
 
which kind?
system or house?
 
software
:D
 
10:18 AM
being a software architect is not desirable.
it just means that you're supposed to know best, so there is no one you can turn to whenever you've got a problem.
 
The obvious solution is to actually know best.
 
best != enough
 
I guess the worst part is, if it doesn't work, you are in a big trouble
changing stuff might be too costly
 
Depends. If you design your architecture in a modular way then at least you isolate the boundaries of change. Of course if you get the boundaries wrong then you might well have a problem ... this well describes the system I am currently planning to put into Beta and immediately consign to the scrap heap.
 
@PM2Ring for your viewing pleasure (clock in GoL at codegolf.SE)
 
10:42 AM
cbg("all", ssdd=True)
 
cbg
 
11:41 AM
Cbg
(Cbg from Seeheim)
 
How's Hesse BobbyG?
 
recbg
 
12:10 PM
unfortunately I'm forced to use py2, and for many-many years now, this is the first time, I'm completely puzzled on why the following setup is not working, whereas, it is working with py3 perfectly...
any ideas on this one?
(btw cbg all)
 
12:25 PM
Doesn't dispatch need an __init__.py to make it a module?
 
I can add that, let's see :)
 
@AndrasDeak Thanks. Although the author admits that they used existing technology to build the clock it's still quite an impressive achievement, even for an experienced GoL tinkerer. But considering that they have never done this kind of thing before, it's amazing.
 
@PM2Ring Yeah, I saw that it doesn't change the world, but it's still pretty awesome:)
 
@AndrasDeak umm.. that is interesting.. because it solves it.. however in the real life version (this was a dummy stuff to reproduce things) it already had the __init__.py
 
weird...
 
12:29 PM
indeed!
 
FWIW I can reproduce
 
hmm..
 
hmm, but dispatch.dispatch is not a module
 
anyway, cheers for the contribution :)
 
I've seen something similar, with sympy.lambdify...
no worries:)
 
12:35 PM
Don't forget that there are some important changes in the Python 3 import system . See stackoverflow.com/a/33744115/4014959
 
12:46 PM
Mmmmmmh fish fingers
 
1:20 PM
There's a good chance I convinced my coworker to stop using exit, by restructuring his code so that the condition where he'd like to terminate early can never possibly occur.
 
jolly good
 
Say, 80%. In the remaining 20% of scenarios, I review his code and he says "yeah, I was going to change it, but... Meh. Already works."
 
1:45 PM
morning everyone. Anyone buy nintendo switch?
 
No, but I'm thinking about it.
I skipped over the Wii U so perhaps it's time for a new console.
But I'm going to need to see more games I want besides Zelda, in order to justify it. Unless the hype proves true for once and it turns out to be the Best Game Of All Time
 
Morning cabbage, folks.
How bad is using POST to function as a GET, but with more data than can reasonably be encoded in a URL? This is for an internal API for filtering data and returning arbitrary combinations of fields from different tables. Is there a better verb than POST?
 
I wouldn't use POST... that will be super confusing to any new dev coming on
Unless you propose creating an entity which contains search results, then using a GET on the return value
 
Yeah, that was what I was afraid of. I do like the idea of creating a search object and then filtering on that. It allows for easier reuse of searches going forward as well.
Thanks!
 
someday I will know how to programmer
 
1:54 PM
Of course some sites use POST for various purposes when RESTful principles dictate they should really use a GET. Another common use case is when you don't want the query strings to be logged ...
 
The full extent of programming is unfathomable to puny 3D+1 minds.
We're all just blind men grasping an elephant. We'll never see the whole thing. All you can aspire towards is to get real good at grasping.
 
@holdenweb Given how wonky the rest of our API is, I wouldn't be too far off in just using a POST for this, but I'd like to do it the right way. Restore at least a tiny shred of sanity to this API.
Plus, reusing these searches has already been mentioned and Corvid's solution makes that super easy.
 
DSM
Morning took-the-day-off-to-do-errands cabbage for all.
 
Tomorrow is going to be my errands day, unless Future Kevin betrays me by not doing errands.
Past Kevin already did that six days ago so I'm on alert
 
DSM
Unfortunately certain errands require interaction with people who don't work weekends..
 
2:00 PM
So it goes.
 
@MorganThrapp yeah, @corvid has nailed it from a purity PoV
 
DSM
@MorganThrapp: FWIW I tend to follow poke's do what makes sense advice.
 
I need to get gas and go to the library and get a haircut and pick up a birthday present and fix my shattered piggy bank and optionally purchase ingredients for cooking if I decide I want to do some cooking this week
 
wondering how serious that piggy bank part is
 
I was thinking quesadillas possibly with chicken but I've never prepared chicken before and in general every time I include meat in a food I feel like I'm taking my life into my own hands
"Is this cooked? I guess so, I don't see any blood"
 
2:03 PM
That's why you need a crockpot. You just throw stuff in and wait 6 hours.
It's great.
 
you and your crockpot theories
 
@AndrasDeak 90% serious. It's actually a race car, not a piggy. But it is broken and I am going to fix it.
 
Everyone knows Big Cooking is just trying to control our food with "Food Safety" and "Minimum Temperatures". Did the dinosaurs ever get food poisoning? I didn't think so.
 
@Kevin was there a stock market panic?
 
If there was, it probably didn't directly cause my bank to fall off the shelf.
Rather, it was caused by [redacted], who apologized profusely and then went on to break something else in the house that same day. Not a good day for [redacted].
 
2:06 PM
don't underestimate the butterfly effect
 
@MorganThrapp I don't think you could "re-use" searches, so to speak, because then you would have to update the search after someone performed one with the same parameters. Basically a create_or_update followed by a get
 
@corvid The idea is that this is part of a reporting tool, so a user might create a custom report and then save that report. The query they used to generate that report would then get saved and rerun any time they need the report.
It would just save the step of rebuilding/parsing the JSON object.
 
2:24 PM
Why do so many newbies pass strings to str()? The if...elif.. else block in this code is rather curious as well. stackoverflow.com/questions/42580840/…
 
Oh boy, time to use my favorite dupe target in the world
 
\o cbg
 
Yeah, I almost linked it myself but I'm on my phone, so doing stuff like that is a bit tedious.
 
@Kevin which one?
 
Asking the user for input until they give a valid response may be of interest to you. (Not voting to close as duplicate since your question is more "why isn't this specific code working?" than "what's a good way to do this?") — Kevin 5 mins ago
 
2:32 PM
@khajvah Read his comment on the question I just linked and all will be revealed.
 
I thought twice about hammering. I have to err on the side of leaving open because it's my own answer and I don't want to look too self-serving
 
niiiice
I remember when I first did that, it was magic
 
Kevin'd by Kevin. But I knew that would be likely. ;)
 
@corvid I want too but I've never finished a Zelda game fully (most was half way in) but it seems like that's the main game for it right now.
 
@PM2Ring nice try tho
 
2:34 PM
@PM2Ring My submit finger is never faster than when I'm crowing about my own accomplishments ;-)
 
@Kevin I agree that it should not be hammered.
 
@PM2Ring The rules should be change to make it hammerable
 
My "hammer / just give a link" ratio for questions of this type is about 1:10, historically
 
that's something to put in CV
 
I only feel justified in hammering when it's clear that OP is happy to throw out everything he's tried and use my approach as long as it works
 
2:37 PM
nvm brainfart
 
cabbagio leviosa!!!
 
Re: "Why do so many newbies pass strings to str()?", I suspect that those particular newbies are coming from another language, which statistically speaking probably had explicit typing.
So they don't feel comfortable providing an object without signaling "yes, this string literal is a string", even though they can't articulate why they think it's necessary
 
Oh, sorry - I see that wasn't a Python question (search fart)
 
If questioned, I would expect them to justify it as "well, it probably isn't necessary, but it also doesn't hurt"
 
2:39 PM
@idjaw \o cbg Joe, you seem in a good mood.
 
@khajvah There's also the input vs raw_input issue that needs to be clarified. But unfortunately the OP isn't responding.
 
Never mind that even in explicitly typed languages, f("hello world!") is perfectly valid
 
:D
I like coming to sopython and seeing Kevin being a total Kevin
 
Alternate theory: at some point in a past project they got an error message like "expected str, not bytes" and internalized the lesson "things that look like strings might not actually be strings, so always convert when unsure"
And newbies are unsure quite frequently, so
 
@Kevin Makes sense - they're doing it as a defacto type declaration.
 
2:43 PM
why wouldn't I be in a good mood
 
Yeah sometimes you'll see assignment statements like x = int(42) where the intent is pretty clear
 
when I am in a bad mood I remember that I am sober and everything feels normal again
 
Listening to hip hop, writing Python, making things pass.
 
"Hey Gandalf, what should I put inside my except block? Is it OK to just silently ignore errors?"
 
2:47 PM
You can ellipsis though.
But :-|
 
Only if you're a hobbit so you can be properly stealthy about it. Dwarven ellipses are too noisy.
 
@Kevin Our latest internal application is called Gandalf. It has to do with authentication
The client that will be talking to Gandalf, is called Frodo.
I wanted it to be called Balrog
But, hey. That works too
 
the project I am working on is called Morpheus
 
"Hey Gandalf, I haven't seen you in a while. How did that legacy PHP project go?"
"Darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell."
"Heh, you know it, that language has some unspeakable WTFs for sure."
"Stars wheeled overhead and everyday was as long as a life-age of the earth. But it was not the end. I felt life in me again."
"Yeah dude, crunch mode is killer but hey, TGIF!"
5
 
3:00 PM
you're fantastic, Kevin.
 
I am gratified that you think so.
Now I only need to find 999,999 more people like you, and get each one of them to give me a dollar.
 
Morning cbg
 
@MarcusS \o cbg
 
@Kevin I suggest sending an email to random people requesting help, post haste, as you have lost your credentials in a foreign country and need to raise money to go back home.
Seems to have a high success rate.
 
Parting fools from their money is, by all accounts, a lucrative industry.
 
3:10 PM
Definitely
 
On the topic of weirdly juxtaposed urban fantasy, Slate Star Codex has put forth A Modern Myth, which is an interesting story of Greek gods trying to find a place in society.
 
@idjaw Oh.... my Dev's database isn't letting me pass, :( Is it because I look like a Balrog ?
 
Oh hey, it's those guys.
 
"I'm not an artist, but I know what a sketchbook is." "I bought one once." "Did it enable you to break free from conventional structures and unearth your mind's creative potential?"
Haven't heard of any good Kickstarters in a long time now. A few years ago we were posting cool ones constantly.
 
3:26 PM
I choose to believe that the coolness of ideas has remained constant, but we're all too jaded to hype them up on social media anymore
 
@davidism Didn't mars one start a kickstarter campaign?
 
"This is neat, but I bet they'll underestimate the complexities of the manufacturing process and fail to uphold their rewards promises. closes tab"
 
There have been some good NASA related ones recently
 
Hardest part of getting to mars is not making a mistake in the landing programming.
In some way we just can't prevent mistakes there and always some calculation or programming is wrong due to something silly. (One person thinking the measurements were in feet instead of meters is a famous example).
 
Without proper landing calculations, you'll still get to mars, but you'll have a smear of burnt metal scrap instead of a rover/lander. Still counts though
 
3:30 PM
but I have pretty much tuned out any of the technology ones
"oh we didn't realize how hard this would be, bye"
 
OK, when I say "cool", I mean "thing I actually want and can reasonably afford that will probably actually get made in a reasonable amount of time and that doesn't already basically exist".
I think part of the problem is that most of the old game devs already made their Kickstarters at the same time and are working on them right now.
 
The ones I feel most bad for are "we realized exactly how hard it would be to make the product, and would have absolutely nailed the original design production cost. But when reception was overwhelmingly positive, the new reward tiers we rushed to put up were not subjected to the same amount of scrutiny. Turns out an extra $10,000 doesn't cover the cost of changing the rubber grips to genuine leather"
"In hindsight, making the 5$ tier reward 'you will get a thoughtful personalized letter from each member of the engineering team' would have a measurable impact on our burndown rate"
 
I've had good luck with the art/photography ones, lots of cool prints
although "fund me to go somewhere and take pictures" comes with its own hefty dose of skepticism
Then there's always Snotbot :)
 
The problem is, I don't want a bazillion tabletop books of pictures. So maybe one is good, but I'm not interested in continuing to get them.
I just wish Cyan would get it together and send out the physical rewards for Obduction.
 
3:52 PM
With Torment out this week I think my last backed game has delivered
 
Bit more late with this response, but I'm irked that "you cannot pass" has been changed in the movies
 
@davidism it's coming to PC a week after I think... can't wait to play it on my PC.... so hype for the sound track.
I'm hoping there's a CE that will include the sound track.
 
I even have Windows 10 and an Nvidia 1060 now, but I'm still going for PS4.
 
If you don't mind me asking, why? What is the PS4 version attracting you? Early release? Maybe trophies on PS4?
 
Don't want to drag my desktop out to the 65" 4k TV.
 
4:12 PM
that's taller than my wife :|
 
That's a good reason. I need to upgrade my living room T.V / monitor... so I can fully understand the power of 4k.
 
For old games or indie games I don't care, so I'll get those on Steam, but for AAA I still prefer the console and TV, even though I know performance is technically worse.
I'm not even getting 4k output, I don't have the PS4 Pro. But the upscaling is so good it doesn't matter.
I have surround sound for my TV too, not my office.
 
@davidism do you have a 4k monitor. Is it worth getting (depending on your rig I guess but say your rig could output 4k)
 
class Fred:
    f = lambda x: x
print(Fred.f(23))
It's interesting to me that this works in 3.X but not in 2.7.
 
old style class
no
 
4:19 PM
I recently saw some gameplay of Yooka-Laylee. It's like Banjo Kazooie / Tooie, if you've ever played those.
 
@Kevin different stack call, use dis.dis and I get different execution order :\
 
4k monitors at 4k aren't big enough yet, and Linux support for 2x gui is still in progress.
 
My wild guess is that the different versions use different criteria to decide which callable attributes ought to be turned into unbound methods
 
oh joy.....a ruby package just got updated today, and now my build is failing
need to dig inside vagrant to see what's going on
 
@idjaw what a gem to find on Friday :D
 
4:22 PM
Ex. 2.7 just scans the class for functions, whereas 3.X only chooses things explicitly declared using def. But that's just my guess.
 
as a wise man once said:

:-|
 
Anyone have any experience with those new "curve" monitors ?
 
I don't care for them
Unless someone really nerded out on the research and has a reason why they are superior
 
At the distance of a desk monitor, curve might be worth it, but I think it's mostly a gimmick.
 
@idjaw Wise is a synonym for DSM.
 
4:23 PM
@MooingRawr No but I want enough of them to have a circular desk :P
 
@Kevin yeah, I find it unintuitive that a lambda bound to a class instance is treated like an unbound method
>>> class Fred:
...     f = staticmethod(lambda x: x)
...
>>> print(Fred.f(23))
23
:|
 
I saw one and I was like oh shiny, but then I'm like do I really want this? I wonder how full screen (borderless window) gaming would look. Then I wonder if I would need another program to emulate multiple monitor so I can "full screen" something and still have another window viewable
Also VR looks interesting but I don't think I would want to get into it... doesn't seem like something I would want, but that SAO VR game in development looks interesting..
 
> Since the difference between a function and an unbound method is pretty minimal, Python 3 gets rid of the distinction; under Python 3 accessing a function on a class instance just gives you the function itself
 
bah *class attribute up there
 
(from here)
 
4:27 PM
\o cbg vault
 
"not found"
as in 404
 
so it's not because of my low rep :\
 
@vaultah is it your own post by any chance?
I don't think there's visibility change above 10k...
 
@vaultah what is that?
 
4:31 PM
unless it's part of another mod tool
 
Some new feature, I guess
 
Right, I can see it, but what is it?
 
I can't. Obscure 20k thing?
probably yes
 
Oh, it lets you edit the list of duplicates displayed above a duplicate question.
 
Yes
 
4:33 PM
ooooh, neat
gold badger, then?
should be a matlab dupe
 
yeah, it's probably only shown to gold badge holders
I can't access that link
 
That link 404s, and I don't see an edit link on the question @AndrasDeak.
 
thanks, gents
 
There doesn't appear to be a meta post about the feature yet. Not sure I want to use it without knowing how it interacts with close/reopen.
 
I couldn't find one either
 
4:42 PM
oh god....seriously? rvm.io/rvm/install
that's the venv equivalent how-to in ruby-world?
cringe
 
That's a bit different, I think. It's like pyenv, for installing separate interpreters, not separate package envs.
 
I think Node.js has something similar
 
I think Ruby's like Node where you just install packages to some local place automatically.
I'm probably completely wrong, summoning @WayneConrad.
 
yeah. I recently learned about nvm
seems similar
 
Hello, my Pythonista brothers, sisters, and people and organisms of undeterminate or undisclosed gender.
 
4:48 PM
Ergh. 3000-line long file to debug. Why don't people break these things up more?
 
cabbage @WayneC
 
cbg :)
 
hey @WayneConrad
 
DSM
puts 'welcome back!'
 
Here's another string-caster, with an "interesting" explanation stackoverflow.com/a/42584165/4014959
 
4:51 PM
Ruby has a well developed package management system called "Ruby Gems". It was inspired, I believe, by Perl's package system. A Ruby program usually has a "Gemfile" that specifies which libraries (and which version of those libraries) the program requires.
 
That's almost a sensible thing to do. x = str(input("Enter a number:")) will behave identically across versions assuming the user enters only valid int literals.
 
In addition, Ruby has utilities akin to pyenv which make it easy to install libraries to your home directory rather than to system directories.
 
=O another Wayne o.o \o cbg
 
But I doubt that's the OP's intention since he says "here I use input assuming your version is Python 3.x"
So he's not himself aware that he stumbled into a version-invariant solution
 
@WayneConrad is rvm the way to go for me to have a self contained area to test gems I don't want affecting my system?
I'm trying to replicate a problem with a gem that was updated today and I am trying to put together something similar to Python's venv
 
DSM
4:52 PM
@Kevin, @PM2Ring: anyone working on a comment to correct the misund.?
 
@idjaw It's a good choice and usually works for most people. Since it installs functions into your shell, it can be finicky. If it gives you trouble, then try rbenv instead.
 
@Kevin Fair point. OTOH, using Python 2 input is dubious at best.
 
@WayneConrad Oh neat. I'll check out rbenv too, just to add to my learning. Thanks
 
DSM
It's impressive how quickly Ruby ambassadors appear when summoned!
 
how did that happen?
if only this worked for food.....
 
4:54 PM
@DSM I'm kicking something around, but not yet sure whether I'll submit
 
I think I'm going to get Banh-Mi again today. It was so good yesterday, I'm still thinking about it.
 
@idjaw The room sent me a notice when someone mentioned my name with the magic at-sign.
 
@DSM not me
 
Oh. I didn't even notice the summon! I see it now
 
@WayneConrad I went to your profile and invited you.
 
4:54 PM
Thanks for the summon spell, davidism
 
Since you weren't pingable.
 
Why aren't I pingable? Is that a setting I can change?
 
But I did refrain from down voting. :)
 
@idjaw The closest one I know is like a 30 minute drive from my work place :( I use to have them all the time downtown :(
 
I think you had to have visited the room within a period of time to be pingable here
Mine is a five minute walk :D
 
DSM
4:55 PM
tag:cv-pls <- pick your reason, several apply
 
I had zero idea what I want for lunch, but now I want Banh-Mi .... -sulk-
 
@DSM oh wait, it's a dupe of @idjaw's canon
 
DSM
@idjaw: yeah, for a while we kept unintentionally pinging somebody who visited and shared a name with a regular.. things didn't get better until enough time passed..
 
@DSM @BhargavRao was just about to vote dupe
 
DSM
But the "current" problem is only mentioned in a comment-- the original question seems unrelated.
 
4:57 PM
@BhargavRao cool! \o/ :)
 
@davidism I appreciate the invite. Thanks!
 
Thanks again for the info Wayne!
 
@DSM Erm, I reopened and voted as dupe. If I reopen and close as no MCVE, then the OP will think that I'm drunk. :(
 
DSM
If you move the comment to the question it will seem like an improvement by a wise and helpful mod. :-)
 
Hi @WayneConrad, How are you?
 
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