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18:00
the good thing about thinkpad is that they've got disassembly instructions on the net. it is easy to disassemble this. To change the keyboard one just needs to remove a couple screws.
chromebooks are nice if you don't need tkinter
I actually recently bought a laptop and didn't go Apple because there wasn't anything comparable in the price range. Same reason I've never bought an Apple.
And apple has just become too much to me like a "use our stuff" company
@WayneWerner not gonna use the OS though. Will probably install Fedora on it
well there's that, then
user559633
18:01
@JonClements Yeah, the "allow apps from unsigned developers" raised an eyebrow for me, as did a couple more "cloud integrations" on the desktop. Since then I installed Windows 10 and because they were advertising at me in my application launch interface.
Some day they’re going to come out and say “It’s not the best iPhone we’ve ever created. Close though. I mean. Tough year.”
I want to be able to fix my computer.
Like, looking around at $700 Apples, closest I can find is a refurbished laptop that has comparable but worse specs.
I think the best iPhone they made was the iPhone 4
@QuestionC I would never buy the macbook. Only air or pro but those are expensive
user559633
@AnttiHaapala Have you done that recently on a laptop? I'm okay with 3-4 years and then getting a new one. It's not like I've ever swapped out the mobo on a thinkpad.
stackoverflow.com/a/39376321/400617 blatant plagiarism with a token effort to offer an "alternative"
@tristan I've killed keyboards :D
user559633
@AnttiHaapala on purpose?
added ram
not on purpose
18:03
@AnttiHaapala there is an app for there, right?
@davidism but why would they do that?
user559633
my keyboard is getting a bit spongey on my macbook air, but that's probably average 6 hours of use a day over 2 years
@JonClements they did it on another question first, where I encouraged them to repost on the canonical dupe before I noticed that it was plagiarism. Might want to check their other posts.
maybe it's just me - if I "buy" something - that's exactly that. I don't want to feel like I'm "licensing" it
18:03
@tristan try pouring some coffee into it.
@QuestionC does this run on wine?
user559633
@AnttiHaapala eh. it's under warranty. they'll replace it.
user559633
why would i pour liquid over my laptop?
@QuestionC Took the 32GB option, already noticing differences.
@khajvah Depends on motherboard support.
user559633
@JonClements no, but that's most software in 2016 that's not open source
yep...even music is mostly used like that. If spotify goes under, all that music I've invested in goes away.
and I'll have to dust off that old CD collection. Ready for the apocalypse.
user559633
Even with some open source, e.g. React, wherein if you get sued by/sue facebook, you're not allowed to use it.
user559633
How to learn how to run a Python application at scale
Step 1: Get your application enough traffic that it needs to run at scale or join a company with very active users
Step 2: Troubleshoot
18:08
@davidism hit the wrong close reason - repened and closed again
this looks cool
user559633
4gb of memory. Godspeed.
@tristan Step 3: Consider moving to Java
@tristan still stuck in step 1
@JonClements hmm, where's the rolled up newspaper... :-P
18:09
@tristan yeah that might be an issue
user559633
@khajvah Step 4) Spend $20 more a month and not rewrite it all.
@davidism oh go for it... puppy has teeth :p
user559633
Step 5) Hit same bottleneck. Try to get acquired by Twitter
is the celeron pretty old
stackoverflow.com/questions/39376590/… "How do I use in". It's getting answers.
user559633
18:11
Fun fact: I once responded to the question of "how do you plan on scaling your codebase" with "get acquired by Facebook." At least half the room found it amusing.
that's the plan of our startup too
my manager plans were "earn this much this year, that much the other year, sell for that much the next"
user559633
The better answer, I've since learned, is "make some strategic hires"
I love that word. strategic
maybe it's just me, but umm... "get acquired" is not a great starting point
user559633
You can just pepper it in. Same with "smart."
18:13
it's up there with a lot of other favourites
my plan is to actually have the problem and then the solution will come after being stressed out for a few weeks
user559633
@JonClements yeah, here in the US, in tech startups, it's a four letter word to admit that's your plan
Get acquired, IPO or stay small are the only plans
off to poisoning my liver
@MorganThrapp If only "Fastest Hammer in the West" were a thing. Time to work on Nidaba again @Ffisegydd.
18:14
take care
user559633
enjoy!
@tristan strange... would never put that in my MoA
@davidism Yeah, no kidding.
later khajvah
user559633
@JonClements oh no no, you never put that in your incorporation documents, i meant in pitch/handshake meetings
18:15
The title is almost exactly the same as the dupe.
user559633
first incorporation document length: 15ish well thought out pages. current incorporation document length: most of a bar napkin
and actually on a bar napkin
I'm sure you can develop that up to 15 bar napkins, bound and laminated.
@MorganThrapp I don't think it's actually a dupe, just a bad question. Can't quite tell though.
user559633
i didn't actually write it out yet. you're supposed to have them written as banks/investors can ask for them, and they're a sign of good faith when entering business with a team, but they're not legally enforceable here in the US
18:20
I like how Python is honest about the fact that a member function is the same as a static method you pass an instance of the class to. The equivalency is simple enough to be usually glossed over, but it's useful to break out of the OO mindset.
@tristan in the UK they're somewhat binding
all methods are functions
i didn't like that about python but i guess that is a good point
user559633
@JonClements There are a number of documents that ultimately supersede any implied arrangement in those initial documents, so it's only really if you're getting a loan or opening accounts that they ever come up.
Are there any languages where not all methods are functions? Serious question.
18:23
how can that be true
wim
wim
can't curse slot wrapper what am I doing wrong
>>> def my_eq(self, other):
...     return other is 42
...
>>> from forbiddenfruit import curse
>>> curse(int, '__eq__', my_eq)
>>> 1 .__eq__(1)
False
>>> 1 == 1
True
user559633
@user5797668 you're the one that stated you didn't like that all methods are functions in python
I mean, there may be languages where you can't use a Class::method_name convention
all methods are functions in every thing i thought
I actually incorporated. I always saw the incorporation document as a legal loophole so I made it as vague and meaningless as possible. I think it just says QC Inc provides "Technology Solutions"
18:24
@tristan Yup - but it's still why most companies choose to take a general "we will do business" - rather than declaring in the MoA specifically their trade - something to do with technically operating outside your remit blah blah blah
i just didn't like that u are exposed to the implicit class instance as first parameter thing but i guess it is less of a lie..
And what is the curse library supposed to do @wim?
wim
wim
monkeypatch built-ins
The alternative is to have yet another keyword referring to the instance
user559633
Here in the us, you can state that you're in business for "any legal purpose" which is like the paperwork equivalent of shouting "none of your business! am i being detained?"
18:26
Alright, I can't say I was fond of the explicit self parameter when I first started using Python.
i like knowing when things are higher level abstractions and not "real".
Ain't nothing in programming is real. even electrons are abstractions.
eletrons?
wim
wim
to understand the explicit self thing you have to understand the descriptor protocol
user559633
the first time around, i wrote a whole thing on structure with backstories and plot twists and character development in my formation paperwork. this time around "purpose: do a business. structure: i'm the boss until someone else is"
18:28
yeah that is true but some things are "realer" than others
wow "audio should be wireless anyway" according to Apple....ugh
user559633
@idjaw what, you don't want to charge your earbuds?
wim
wim
if you know what python was like before it had class then it makes great sense
@tristan I want to listen to music and my phone needs to be plugged in and my pods are out of juice. TOUGH LUCK!
I don't think that you need to understand descriptors to understand explicit self, but you do need to understand it to understand why instance.member is different from class.member
18:29
I didn't like it at first because... seemed redundant. But it really isn't because it saves Python a keyword and I like the mental model of always using the first argument to represent rules.
@Kevin weeeell......:P
@QuestionC explicitness ftw
how cute....access siri with a tap on the pod. Yes, because I use siri all the time.
the idea that "everything is an abstraction in programming" is true but also not so meaningful
Only Apple has the courage to sell you extra adapters.
"True but not meaningful" is like my personal mission statement
Apparently they're removing the headphone jack because it's "courageous".
You have got to be kidding me.
Well, and all the technical reasons. But let's ignore those.
That's quite some definition of courage they've adopted there.
☑ Full of sound and fury
☑ Signifying nothing
At least it will be a safe company for everybody.
18:32
I'm all for moving to a better port/wireless.
But, courageous? C'mon, really?
is the statement "its been around for 100 years" an intrinsically condemning one
they accidentally opened the Thesaurus instead of the Buzzword Dictionary
@user5797668 no. What if it refers to an elderly person?
Well, "it" might be a bit rude
i used bluetooth bose for months now and it works very well and lasts like 8 hours, but connecting is a hastle
@AndrasDeak hence divesting themselves of conventional connectors with alacrity
Headphone jacks are like the one standard that didn't fall into the classic multipolar trap and Apple wants to take it away >:-(
18:33
@JRichardSnape I understood half of that:D
With Apple airpods you can look like you have two tiny Dicks hanging out of your ears!
usually the procedure is, go to sys-pref, delete old connections -> reset bluetooth on device ->reset bluetooth on headphones --> make new connection --> profit!
user559633
Classy
Seriously though, those "AirPods" looks like fragile bluetooth headsets.
And now they're in both ears! For twice as many weird looks.
user559633
those are going to be so easy to lose. i'm surprised they didn't do a y-connector for charging/passthrough audio on the jack
18:35
Customers, Y U NO BUY APPLE EARPHONE
have they overhauled USB yet?
@tristan Yeah, that's like half of my twitter feed.
All of my tech is wired because I am paranoid about sewer drains.
wim
wim
wish the charger port was usbc
user559633
Seems like Apple has started to try to compete with Android on ~featurez~ which seems like a dumb idea.
@tristan I'm sure it will be released as a 60$ accessory soon enough
18:37
Yeah, USB-C is great. I mean, as long as you only buy like 2 specific brands of cable, because otherwise there's a good chance that your device will explode!
no more spin-1/2 USB for us in 20 years!
user559633
Android has bigger numbers. Apple has stuff that works. That's why the iPhone has been dominant.
and any crappy company can ship their device with android, right?
I got a game controller for Christmas and I was annoyed to discover it was wireless because 1) I have to keep feeding it AA batteries, and 2) I live three blocks from a four hundred foot tall radio transmitter, which has historically caused terrible interference on a wide host of wireless protocols. The main benefit of wirelessness, being able to get far away from the computer, is useless to me because I exclusively play games on my laptop, which I exclusively use on my lap.
user559633
There's licensing, but it's not google really cares the brand quality of android.
18:39
Thus endeth my wireless rant.
I disliked my radio mouse when I had it
and my wifi has half the speed of my ethernet connection at home:(
stupid neighbours and their stupid wifi and stupid non-5GHz-compliant-laptop
I think I have one device left at home on 2.4
everything else connects on 5
wim
wim
apple is a horrible company and I'll never buy an apple phone

*Sent from my iPhone 7*
@idjaw here very few devices support 5:/ Mostly mobile devices
I'm not sure how much of that is due to "here"
"we;re able to render over 400 flying monkeys" .. is something people from the year 400 bc would find funny to hear lol
18:45
"render them what?"
"Tsk tsk, one shouldn't rend that many at once. There won't be any monkey meat next year unless you keep their numbers in a sustainable range"
they would also say <What the hell is this guy saying?*>


*translated from Aramaic
your language assumptions ANGER ME
won't I like you when you're angry?
no, you WOULDN'T
18:49
I can't be bothered to fact-check whether Aramaic-speaking regions overlapped with monkey-diet regions in 400 BC.
well than, it seems i have gotten the best of you
There's probably, like, a single Wolfram Alpha query you could do to find out, I bet
yes but you get the answer in cellular automatons
user559633
Apple iEarBuds 2. One cord. Never need to be charged.
They each constantly charge the other one, so you never run out of power.
18:54
is this the same event they will announce the new laptop line-up? Or is that another one?
It's Tim Cook's new favorite band, One Republic Port.
user559633
@idjaw I hope it's this one as that's the only apple product I "care" about
^^ exactly haha
I'm actually really wanting a new display
It's on the musical guest now, so I'm guessing no laptop news today.
and hope it works with my version of the retina pro
user559633
18:55
Curious if there will be an i7 15" macbook pro with a nvidia 1060 gtx
^^ that would be amazing. I have no reason to upgrade any time soon. But that would make me re-consider
user559633
Yeah. The 1060 is meant to deliver similar performance in a small form factor (e.g. laptop) and could be throttled to not throw off too much heat.
until more games don't care that you're not on Windows... :(
Am I misremembering, or did "one more thing" used to mean one more tech announcement?
user559633
@KevinMGranger It used to mean something of substance, yeah
18:58
What, you didn't like Apple Music using it last year?
No, "one more thing" is what grandfather would say before burdening Jackie with an additional chore and/or plot device.
It's like you didn't even watch the show.
user6568562
Did you hear about the AirAsia plane that landed in the wrong country ? edition.cnn.com/2016/09/07/aviation/…
user6568562
I think he did it on purpose to go see PM2
haha 159$ for those pods
USD
user559633
@randomhopeful Uhh wow, that's a massive f-up.
18:59
No, but you don't understand, they're affordable.
$ == USD
user559633
Universal Standard Dollar.
At least, according to whoever it was that demo'd them.
@user5797668 $ in Canada too
@user5797668 Nope, it can also be CAD.
user559633
19:00
Conventional Aussie Dollar?
well then i don't knnow what the hell to think anymore
user6568562
@tristan Imagine if the world was flat and they ended up in the vacuum of space
user6568562
I think the pilot should thank his luck
user559633
@randomhopeful Bro. If? IF? IF the world was flat?
Oh, wrong country, but at least the same country they took off from.
19:01
All I've got are quatloos.
you need to catch up on your B.O.B tweets @randomhopeful .
this will make my life so much easier / busy
It hasn't got a money sign because the Unicode consortium won't answer my letters, and they took a restraining order on me.
@davidism that guy stole tristan's identity
19:03
And yup, event is over and no news about laptops/desktops.
yo, tristan. You gonna let that happen? He's steppin' on your turf
tristan's not very keen on kicking up dust
user6568562
@tristan I guess it still would be better than nested
user559633
@idjaw would only be an issue if i worked at github and i seriously doubt i'll work for github
stackoverflow.com/questions/39377262/… "Why can't I scrape pages that give a 403?".
19:06
you need to scrap those
> hello guys i am new to scraping with python can u plzzz help me with my code
twitch
Oh yeah, it hurts.
user559633
he/she did say plzzz
Twice, in fact.
user6568562
Yeah, with three pleading z's. What are you guys, not made of hearts ?
pretteah plzzzzzz
user559633
19:08
ya gais dont b <3les
who you callin gai
user6568562
@tristan Damn what they made us do. I hate he/she when I read it but I use it also. I think it's time to add Xe to the English language
Some OPs can only become true coders by being reforged in the heat of their own disappointment. Leaving their question unanswered is a virtue.
user559633
he/she is fine :)
"they" is fine too
user559633
19:09
twitches
crap I forgot the plzzzzzzz at the top....
singular they 4 life
well, grammatically
user559633
"they went to dinner? joe and who? oh, joe went to dinner."
if you design your language in a way that gender is intertwined with grammar, you need to hack it up here and there to make it usable
19:09
Let's just get this out of the way.
May 18 at 15:11, by Kevin
I feel bad for singular "they". 500 years old and used by Shakespeare, but still getting flack.
Thank you
I can't imagine how a Japanese person talks about someone with whom their relative social status is unknown...
May 18 at 15:13, by tristan
shakespeare was the stephenie mayer of the 15th century
Yeah, I use they. I know it's a relatively recent term. I mean, it's only been in use since the 14th century.
user559633
I'm pretty sure there's a "Fuck Shakespeare" from me around there
user559633
19:10
oh there it is
May 18 at 15:15, by Kevin
@tristan Damn, I was going to write "(inb4 'shakespeare was considered lowbrow by his contemporaries, so don't take any English lessons from him')" but I deleted it because I didn't think anyone would actually make that argument.
user6568562
@Kevin Haha : D Nice
DSM
DSM
When I'm speaking Japanese, I don't mind using polite language even though it sounds somewhat feminine.
user559633
Things with shakes that are good:
- milk
- shack
- dancing, sometimes
Things with shakes that are not good:
- speares
19:11
harlems
user559633
How to fix he/she gender neutral "they." When your gender is in doubt, you must perform the action with at least one other person.
Things with shakes that are good:
- Michael J Fox
Things with shakes that are not good:
- The ground
user559633
my argument is the equivalent of "the code isn't broken, change the tests"
@tristan is it the "no bare persons" principle?
Wonders what "the action" is a euphemism for...
user559633
19:12
bear persons were largely chased out of civilization
user6568562
@AndrasDeak You have a genderless third person pronoun in Hungarian ?
user559633
@JRichardSnape don't you action shame
@randomhopeful my ancestors were smart and gender is nowhere present in our grammar:)
user559633
I'm pretty sure that by this point, I'm not even allowed to buy a ticket for Node Conf to give to someone else.
Hmm, far be it from me to imply that the action is shameful
19:14
and if it's shameful, what's the equal and opposite reaction?
user6568562
@AndrasDeak That's very convenient and well thought-of
indeed!
yet people are reluctant to learn Hungarian:D
user559633
HMMM improve myself or just eat a sandwich. Which would you do, @AndrasDeak?
user559633
I'm legitimately concerned that if I become fluent in a language that's not russian before actually learning russian, no one will find where my girlfriend put my body
user6568562
@AndrasDeak There's a famous Hungarian movie, I think you must've heard of : Taxidermia. Insanely good movie, I watched with subs, I thought it sounded pretty sweet.
19:16
@tristan javítsa magát, természetesen
user559633
According to Google translate, that says "Devil sandwich, extra otter." Weird thing to suggest, JRS
:)
Google translate is not a reversible one-to-one mapping shocker.
Always a risk I could type something absolutely heinous in an unknown language with that tactic, of course.
DSM
DSM
That sounds like a good menu item for one of tristan's many restaurants.
user559633
user559633
otters are on the right side of cute v. delicious line for them to be safe.
19:21
Are you sure? Maybe you haven't tried otter.
DSM
DSM
You otter.
user559633
@KevinMGranger Too cute. Can't do it.
DSM
DSM
What, nothing? (shakes head, muttering llanfair)
I try not to think when I eat delicious, delicious lamb. So delicious.
@DSM won't leave you hanging. Caught that ;)
user6568562
19:32
@KevinMGranger Yeah but otters look too similar to cats to even consider anything than pamper them for life
@tristan ugh...looks like it was just the iPhone announcement
user559633
@idjaw Oh well. Money stays in pocket.
@tristan well, c'est la zhizn
user559633
@AndrasDeak If you introduced little bits of hungarian like that, I'd learn it
neither of us have the attention span for that;)
user559633
19:39
How would you feel about an employer that had a "BYOC" policy, but the employer will pay for half a new device (you keep it)?
@randomhopeful yeah I'm aware of it, though I haven't seen it:)
I'm glad you liked it
there are some surprisingly well-received Hungarian movies nowadays
@tristan chair?
user559633
@RobertGrant Sorry, computer.
Probably not chair, given the word device.
@tristan oh and I'd probably eat a sandwich
cat?
that's a wireless laser sensor device, if you look at it that way
user559633
19:42
A cat in a computer company? Think of the mice!
That sounds amazing, although bringing this to work every day might hurt my back
18.4 inch 4K
user559633
It's a laptop so exclusive, Nvidia couldn't even show it as its own Pascal notebook press event. (translation: they hadn't made it)
user559633
I'm asking about the policy because I've heard about it happening in two places and I'm not sure how I feel about it.
Excitingly, they say the laptop is still in vapour form
19:44
you just need to condense and crystallize?
user559633
On one hand, it's nice because hey, all your content on one machine. On the other hand, I like the total separation of environments. Part of it would also depend on intellectual property policy/claims, I think.
Yeah that last one is the most interesting
Perhaps that would need to be done in writing: anything not explicitly done for work is owned by the employee
the employer would love that, surely...
user559633
My last fulltime job had this overreaching concept that they owned anything I did or thought about on or off the clock, even if done off company premises and without using any equipment/anything they pay for
DSM
DSM
19:48
I may have mentioned that I had to edit a contract once because of the wording.
user559633
Amusingly, middle management, at the same company, took my suggestions without giving me credit and are just now -- months after I've left -- coming to the end of my ideas
and now you have a boss who has the craziest ideas
user559633
Yeah, the legal team at $company responded with a "just trust us", so I went the other way of very vaguely describing previous/ongoing projects and stated that I invented html forms
What's the simplest way to sort a list of the form ['11. Hi' , '1. This is one', '2. This is two'] so that it's in a 'numbered list' order 1,2,11 etc..
user559633
@clickhere Putting it in the list in order in the first place.
19:51
I told my current employer about something I do on the side (in theory; in practice I sleep on the side) that doesn't make money (yet). I can't quite figure out their position on it, but I'm glad I told them.
@tristan gah, I wish I could figure out how to do that too
You could split on . and then reverse sort by length of the [0] component, and then by int() of the [0] component
that ^
user559633
@RobertGrant I'm glad I didn't disclose details of my side projects/ideas as I suspect that they'd have tried to implement them.
except without the length bit, just the int() of the [0] component
19:52
Oh lol yes
What the hell am I on
lexicographic crack
DSM
DSM
sorted(seq, key=lambda x: int(x.split()[0].strip("."))? Untested.
@DSM looks reasonable, except split on "." and no need to strip?
@tristan ah, my employer isn't like that; you have to shove ideas down their throats, Howard Aiken style
user559633
@RobertGrant my ex employer was more "you made this? we made this"
@DSM ah ty so much. You just saved me much headache. Need to get this done yesterday with no time to not hack it XD
@tristan did you try trolling them by coming up with stupid ideas?
user559633
They need to get new ideas from somewhere, so I wish them the best.
DSM
DSM
@AndrasDeak: ah, that'd work too.
user559633
@AndrasDeak Uhh you think the brain behind nerdcop is capable of coming up with silly ideas?
19:55
Surely split, not strip?
@DSM OOH split() splits on whitespace:) sorry
@tristan my bad
@clickhere I don't think there's a less hacky way
extracting substrings as numbers is not trivial
Actually I don't know what that's doing. stares at it
@RobertGrant split on space, cut off period
@AndrasDeak What I mean, is that I should be building the list in an ordered fashion from the get go
@clickhere oh, sure then, yes:D
19:57
@clickhere sorted(l, key=lambda s: int(s.split()[0].strip('.')))
Oh sorry, I got it in my head the input was like this: 123.344546
Oh damn
Someone answered
nvm
@gowrath DSM said it should be lambda x:, not s
(sorry, just kidding)
Could just do .split(". ")[0]
DSM
DSM
:-)
19:58
@RobertGrant or .split(".")[0] even
assuming those are all integers
@AndrasDeak Haha i was like are you shitting me...
Stop it! Yes, that's better.
after all you'd not say '3.141593. The Life of Pi'
DSM
DSM
Why not?
@gowrath yeah, first I didn't realize that you're not one of the regulars:D The disclaimer seemed to be in order
19:59
First time here actually
Also, it should cope with book titles that start with the backspace character
(on the chat)
@DSM cause ordinals >:(
@gowrath welcome:)
user559633
'<= 160.00. The Life of Rye'

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