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user559633
12:02 AM
 
@tristan I'll have to send you some stuff once I dig up my old playlists. I used to have a campus radio show for that style of music.
 
user559633
@idjaw Please do
 
1:01 AM
cbg all!
I am trying to understand what import * but I am a bit confused.
This answer stackoverflow.com/a/2360782/3646408 suggests something different from the tutorial docs.python.org/3/tutorial/… .
The tutorial says "If all is not defined, the statement from sound.effects import * does not import all submodules from the package sound.effects into the current namespace; it only ensures that the package sound.effects has been imported"
It import (into the current namespace) whatever names the module (or package) lists in its all attribute -- missing such an attribute, all names that don't start with _"
The answer says ^^
any suggestions guys?
 
 
4 hours later…
5:04 AM
I think the only small difference in what they're saying is the SO answer mentions that underscore-prefixed names are excluded from an import?
Oh, it was hours ago.
Cbg.
 
5:43 AM
Cbg
 
@GamesBrainiac disagree. Having a different outlook to the stereotype of a programmer can be a massive benefit. The issue is just bad project managers in general.
Bad project managers feel they have to fill their time, I think. The difference is that a technical project manager needing to fill their time could end up writing code (that they haven't done in years) and then taking up other people's time with code reviews and help from actually productive programmers.
Time is still wasted though.
 
user559633
6:25 AM
Jeez, fizzy, do you ever sleep?
 
user559633
oh, and late-night american-cbg :)
 
I tend to wake pretty early for work, usually in work at 0730.
So even when I don't need to wake so early I still end up waking up -_-
 
user559633
7:00 AM
lol. ran into a ruby issue. solution: reinstall OS
 
7:25 AM
@Ffisegydd Yeah agreed, also the context was POs, not PMs. PMs do do stuff, it just the difficulty of the mechanics of PMing has a relatively low maximum
But if they are also good at keeping a customer happy then there is no maximum on their worth, other than the value of the contract
 
PO?
 
I'm being boring very early today
 
user559633
product owner, i bet.
 
8 hours ago, by idjaw
@GamesBrainiac the worst is having to deal with someone non-technical leading the product you are trying to build. I had that once....luckily my current PO is incredible.
Yeah, product owner
(I'm assuming)
 
They all seemed to be discussing project managers though.
8 hours ago, by Games Brainiac
@idjaw especially sprint meetings, with a non-technical project manager.
8 hours ago, by Games Brainiac
Well, thats awesome man. Non-technical product managers are the main reason I'm leaving my current job. They get in the way too much, and think meetings are their work.
idjaw does refer to a PO once.
 
7:29 AM
Ah okay
 
user559633
and hey, it's 330am. have a good morning, future folk
 
Some of the best PMs I know couldn't code if their life depended on it (argument from anecdote, I know)
 
Less of an anecdote: most projects don't involve code, and the world isn't falling apart, so coding isn't an essential PM skill :)
Again, why am I being so dull
 
It's just who you are.
 
Yeah.
 
7:33 AM
We should all go to PyCon in Cardiff in September btw.
I want to stroke JRich's beard.
 
7:44 AM
Cabbage!
 
7:57 AM
@Kevin make it so
 
That URL got me blocked as apparently it's porn (tumblr I know) - just a warning to corporate people :)
 
Oh, no it's porn.
GIF PORN TO BE EXACT!
And by that I mean "really nice gifs" and not "gifs that involve pornography"
 
isn't that the same?
 
In the Venn diagram there could be some overlap, yes.
 
OVERLAP EH
 
8:08 AM
Nods as good as a wink to a blind bat.
But there is no overlap on that page.
It's actually generated sci-fi gifs that look really cool.
 
@Ffisegydd say no more, say no more, guv!
 
@Ffisegydd wobble wobble
cabbage
 
@Ffisegydd Wow, that looks amazing
 
8:37 AM
IKR.
 
@Ffisegydd I bristle at the thought ;)
Morning cabbages.
 
Ooof. Wordplay-fist-bump.
 
punches screen Oops.
 
@JRichardSnape morning
 
Hey @Andras
 
8:41 AM
At least you didn't leave me hanging.
 
@JRichardSnape professional advice as a professor: should I grade these statistical physics mid-terms using a d20?:P
 
Out of what? 100?
 
25:D
 
Oh. Use a d2.
 
we used to call those "coins"
 
8:42 AM
I thought of you yesterday, Andras. I rescued a bit of code from a deleted SO answer that seems to be The Only Code On The Internet that is even close to reading a Matlab .fig in Octave.
 
oh, yeah, .figs are not to be (t)read lightly
mathworks is not really keen on being open-source
figures...
 
...and the understatement of the year goes to...^
 
:D
the real question is, why would anybody want to read matlab figs with octave?:P
unless it's gui, but I don't think octave does that
 
P.S. for clarification, not that it really matters, but I'm not a professor - just a lowly lecturer. There are those in here who call me prof, but I assume it's more a Harry Potter ref than anything.
 
yeah, I suspected:)
but thanks for clarifying
 
8:45 AM
Just in case you actually took my advice seriously ;)
 
Oh, no, the two are not correlated at all:D
 
@AndrasDeak On the "why read the figs", They were published as supplemental material to a paper and I wanted to see if I could retrieve the data from them. Also - the Octave figure GUI is pretty good now.
I got the data. I always get my data ;)
 
ah, cool
supplement as .fig? what an asshole thing to do
"here's our data, only in a proprietary format that you generally won't be able to use"
 
Well, as it was a colleague, diplomacy forbids me from commenting on that...
 
heh:D
@JRichardSnape Let me help you with that:P
also, if I had a newer matlab version I'd volunteer to see where the compatibility ends
 
8:49 AM
Sigh, so few people seem to understand how chained calls and mocking work.
 
I sure don't (but I don't have to)
 
Anyhow - grading statistical physics mid terms - definitely just draw the marks from a normal distribution :D Any complaints - the bulk properties for the class seem about right, I see no problem here.
 
:D
unfortunately I only grade half of each mid-term
I just assign points
(still could be normal, though)
 
Absolutely X+Y~N(...)
 
yup
 
8:51 AM
and all that stuff that I never use anymore :P
 
I'll stick my hand up to also being outside the "few people seem to understand how chained calls and mocking work."
 
Stochastics is fun. Probably.
6
 
You get a star for that
 
awww thank you
 
8:53 AM
In half an hour I have to go to an "Objective Setting" meeting with my boss. I am a little confused as I thought he set me a list of objectives about 3 weeks ago. Maybe this is a "Consultation where you get a chance to agree with my wisdom" meeting
 
:D
or maybe "remind me of what I sent you, good minion"
 
Maybe that's more likely, actually. On which note, I should print a list of said document to take with me.
 
yup
 
9:37 AM
Gah @ objective setting meetings. Open culture ftw.
(ymmv) and cbg.
 
I think it's better to make sure that everyone is on the same page than not.
 
10:34 AM
cabbage everyone... (long time since I have been on chat, is that how y'all greet each other)

I am using the BeautifulSoup library (bs4). I need to find, from a table, rows, that have in their columns atleast one radio button. I am currently using the following code, inside a function and it is working well. I am guessing there must be a way to optimize this into one line or something, I have read the BS4 sample docs, dint find anything that can help me with multiple element criteria. I am using this kind of code to find many other similar things such as submit buttons, but I don't want t
Oops, that code ended up with bad indentation. here is the pastebin link, had forgot about this procedure.
 
This might be better suited to the main site.
 
10:54 AM
Cabbage
I don't know BeautifulSoup but I do have a few comments / suggestions...
 
@PM2Ring okay, bring them up too.. I am still a learner in Python but thrown into the pool and learning...
 
Firstly, you aren't using the enumerate indices col_index or inp_index, so you can simplify both those for loops. And I think the tests in the second loop can be condensed; just give me a minute or two.
 
@PM2Ring : okay
 
The condensed version looks like this:
for loop_input_elem in my_input_tags:
    if (loop_input_elem.has_attr('type') and
        loop_input_elem.attrs['type'] == 'radio'):
        return True
 
I am returned. Turned into a 5 minute meeting - "so - you draft something up for next year and we'll discuss". @Ffisegydd - good that everyone is on the same page - as long as it's my page ;)
 
11:06 AM
@WhirlMind But we can do a little better by using the any function:
if any(item.has_attr('type') and item.attrs['type'] == 'radio'
    for item in my_input_tags):
    return True
 
!!!Unmatched paranthesis alert!!!
 
@JRichardSnape Where?
 
Or maybe not - just my overquick reading...
 
@JRichardSnape : Is that alert for my code ?
@PM2Ring : Thanks, will check those out.
 
I wasn't expecting the split over two lines - I should've known better than that you'd leave it trailing.
 
11:09 AM
@JRichardSnape Phew! I hate posting untested code.
 
@WhirlMind No - it was me glancing at the first line of PM2's code and not reading it carefully.
 
@JRichardSnape I only used those parentheses around the if condition in my 1st snippet so I could split it over a couple of lines.
 
@PM2Ring yeah - me too - I generally run even apparently very simple stuff through the interpreter just in case.
 
@JRichardSnape : what interpreter ? (just to learn about it). (I run my Python program on Windows from command prompt, calling it by a batch file)
 
@JRichardSnape Me too. But that's a bit hard to do with this stuff. :) I don't even have bs4 installed.
 
11:12 AM
cbg
 
@WhirlMind type py -3 - you'll get an interactive python interpreter (a.k.a. a REPL)
If you don't - you're probably using Python 2.7, in which case - install 3 immediately ;)
cbg @Antti
 
@JRichardSnape : Okay, got it. I use 3.4.3
 
Good enough :)
 
I can understand people thinking it's a clever idea to use exit codes to pass data around that's not actually an exit code, but you'd think they'd check that the values they want to pass are legal... stackoverflow.com/questions/37207703/…
 
Is my question an okayish one to ask at the stackoverflow Q & A ? Or would I get whacked for it, LoL ?
 
11:29 AM
@WhirlMind To make that function more versatile you can pass in the button type as an argument, rather than having 'radio' hard-coded.
 
ah but you can't :d
because that is child query
@WhirlMind btw do not compare == True, ever.
for inp_index, loop_input_elem in enumerate(my_input_tags):
    if (loop_input_elem.has_attr('type') == True):
        input_elem_type = loop_input_elem.attrs['type']
        if (input_elem_type == 'radio'):
            return True
 
@WhirlMind Eg,
def is_row_has_option_button(self, soup_row_tag, input_type):
    default_return = False
    if (soup_row_tag.name == 'tr'):
        for loop_col in soup_row_tag.find_all('td'):
            if any(item.has_attr('type') and
                item.attrs['type'] == input_type
                for item in loop_col.find_all('input')):
                return True
    return default_return
 
this has way too much cruft:
but you can do:
 
@AnttiHaapala : okay, (on the boolean expression) use just the expression ?
(on the select query : Does soup.select('a[href]') use even if my html does not have the class='something' phrase ? Does find_all work the same as select, or is 'select' only for CSS (and not HTML) stuff ?
 
CBG all!
 
11:36 AM
cbg
 
def is_row_has_option_button(self, row, input_type):
    return row.name == 'tr' and row.select('td input[type={}]'.format(input_type))
or something
 
DSM
Way too early morning cabbage.
 
I agree
 
Is this a bad practice for each_hub_id in filter(None,[each_hub_id.strip() for each_hub_id in hub_ids.split(",")])
for each_hub_id in filter(None,[each_hub_id.strip()
                                        for each_hub_id in hub_ids.split(",")])
 
"i get the following error: ValueError:invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'TimeStamp'"
 
11:38 AM
@AnttiHaapala : Thanks. I think those are some useful hints to me. Will check those out. Have a good day. Bye.
 
yes it is
useless list comp
I'd personally use filter/map here
 
DSM
Sometimes people forget to read error messages as actual English.
 
@Ant
@AnttiHaapala : Thanks. I will look into it.
 
I wrote some code and got this opaque binary blob error thingy that makes no sense to me: "ValueError:invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'TimeStamp'"`
 
Antti the Ant, this'll cheer up the day at the office
hee hee
 
11:42 AM
swings boot
 
DSM
For whatever reason, I tend not to like for x in (some complex expression): patterns. If it's anything more complex than map(fn, source) I bind the expression to a name first.
 
ducks and covers
 
@AnttiHaapala I'd probably just use a continue inside the for loop.
 
actually I hate the fact that you cannot map before binding to a variable
why is there no "itersplit" function
or splitstrip
 
I guess the map+filter version isn't too bad:
But I still think I prefer the long version for readability:
for each_hub_id in hub_ids.split(","):
    each_hub_id = each_hub_id.strip()
    if not each_hub_id:
        continue
 
DSM
11:52 AM
That's not quite the same, though, because it doesn't strip the elements it yields.
 
@DSM Oops! Shows you how often I use filter. :)
So we're back to:
for each_hub_id in filter(None, map(str.strip, hub_ids.split(","))):
 
12:11 PM
My question specifically is about the filter. Does it generate a new list each time while iterating over a for loop ? Does it compute once and holds it in a memory till for loop runs over it ?
for each_hub_id in filter(None,[each_hub_id.strip()
                                        for each_hub_id in hub_ids.split(",")])
 
@d-coder No, filter doesn't generate a new list each time. But as Antti said earlier it's inefficient to use a list comp here. Either use map (as in my example), or change that list comp into a generator expression by swapping the square brackets for round ones.
for each_hub_id in filter(None, (each_hub_id.strip()
    for each_hub_id in hub_ids.split(","))):
And if you're using Python 2 you could replace filter with itertools.ifilter, but I wouldn't bother unless hub_ids is large.
 
DSM
Aaaaargh. They're building a house (having torn the old one down) a few houses down from me, and so every morning at 8-8:30 they turn on some incredibly loud machine. I think it's a portable generator. Anyway, it's so loud you can't keep the windows open. :-/
 
12:33 PM
Is it safe to leave your windows open in Canada? I heard there were bears.
 
boo windows
 
Noticed your news - congratulations @DSM
 
@DSM I forgot to ask, is your new job a plaid place or a suit place?
 
You ask as though the two are mutually exclusive.
 
DSM
12:49 PM
As a whole it's a suit place, but I'm in with the plaid team, and so no need for non-plaid on the daily.
 
DSM
@JRS: thanks, it should be fun. (Assuming nothing goes wrong, which by Murphy it still could.)
 
I always do a double-take when I see someone in a suit around the office..
 
Sounds like FC, only smart when having to pretend to be a grown up
 
1:01 PM
Morning cabbage.
 
Yo
 
I'm just assuming this is DSM.
 
More beard.
Jus more hair in genera.
 
I love that the pipe matches the sweater vest.
 
Gotta accessorize, yo
 
DSM
1:07 PM
I should go shopping today. Whether it's to buy that jacket, or to buy new things because I can't wear that jacket any more, I won't say.
 
buy a duster and a cowboy hat
 
DSM could pull off a good Roland.
 
1:22 PM
so apparently GvR thinks CPython should be compiled with some imaginary programming language compiler, not a C one.
 
I haven't heard anything about twos complement since college, and I still don't get what happens with 0. Is there a -0?
 
@corvid there is no -0
@corvid the thing is not with that:
C language standard has since year 1989 said that given a maximum integer value (INT_MAX), you add 1 to it, then your program has undefined behaviour
 
@corvid it's ones-complement that has a -0
 
and Guido says here "Lalalalalalalalaalalalalalalalaalalal I didn't hear that, in my compilers INT_MAX + 1 is INT_MIN"
 
It's the privilege of the BDFL to stick his fingers in his ears and hum loudly for any reason.
 
1:27 PM
and that disable quite a many useful optimizations in a C compiler
 
@AnttiHaapala Oh dear. Yes two's complement is widespread, but a core philosophy of C is to use machine integers. So if your C code assumes two's complement but your architecture isn't two's complement then your code is broken, not C.
 
so Python requires a C compiler that has non-standard switches just because "I want to believe" :D
 
Naughty Guido.
 
All we need to do is fork C and call it PythonC, to indicate that it's used to compile CPython. Simple.
5
 
1:30 PM
yeah :D
 
Although then it's no longer CPython, it's PythonCPython. Leading to the new catchy motto, "get hooked on PCP!"
 
CabbageCCabbage, all
 
cabbage
 
C stands for Cabbage
 
Well that's annoying. Either google calendar doesn't update from outlook365's calendar often enough, or outlook365 doesn't publish updated information often enough
 
1:48 PM
But is CabbageCCabbage Cabbage compiled with CCabbage or CabbageC compiled with Cabbage?
Suddenly the word "cabbage" has lost all visual meaning
 
DSM
Isn't there a name for that effect? I think I learned it in this room (well, heard, obviously not learned or I'd know it.)
 
Semantic satiation.
 
It's all that perspective
 
2:10 PM
stackoverflow.com/questions/37212080/… Dupe of linked question. OP agrees.
What's the dupe for "How does this regex work?". Isn't there one giant one?
 
If anyone liked the movie Edge of Tomorrow, it is only like $6 on iTunes right now
 
if you already have netflix, don't bother, because it's in their library :P
 
If I see movies on sale, I assume they're on netflix.
 
I don't see the point of owning a movie anymore.
 
user559633
2:21 PM
morning :)
 
morning tristan
 
user559633
did you every really "own" the movie? (answer is no: not for a very, very long time. you mostly purchased a rental in which the studio still held a large number of rights)
 
I like to buy films that I thought were really good and "original" (read: not based on existing film intellectual property) to support film-makers so they'll start making more of them
 
user559633
i have just been buying die hard three times a week for 10 years
 
user559633
same logic, but every time they make a new die hard, i throw my head back in desperation and say "no, not like that"
 
2:25 PM
I tried the same logic with ninja turtles. We all know how that turned out.
 
user559633
XKCD HISSSSSS
 
@idjaw in the fb office there was a full scale statue of one of the turtles from the studio.
If you ask Martijn nicely he might be able to grab a photo
 
:O
 
user559633
plot twist: it's one of the turtles from the beginning shots
 
2:28 PM
before the mutation?
hmm
 
Plot twist twist: it was not.
 
user559633
 
It was a good 6'8" tall
 
user559633
i drew a chart explaining how to make a die hard movie
 
Shall I tell you a truth tristan? Let us talk, not as friends, but as equals. Friends are too concerned with feelings, but equals would not lie. Die Hard 3 is the best Die Hard film.
Butchered the King quote a bit there.
 
2:31 PM
Rubber duck not to scale.
 
Needs more bananas
 
(The TMNT statue is taller than I am, and I am 1.82m).
 
that's awesome
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd I..I was going to have an extraction team kidnap you so we could hangout while giving you a valid reason to miss work, but now I have to clockwork orange you with die hard on the screen, while asking "DO YOU SEE?" every 30 seconds
 
2:34 PM
3 > 1 > 2
 
bad fizzy...BAD
no
 
And as everyone knows, there were only 3 die hard films.
 
I've still only seen the first one.
 
Wat
 
can we kick ban morgan until he watches the second one?
is that a thing we can do?
 
2:35 PM
I propose a truce while we deal with Morgan.
 
agreed
 
DSM
I saw 2 first and then 1. Was unfortunate, because that way I knew that Willis was going to survive the first movie.
 
I promise I'll watch 2 and 3 at some point in the next two months. Does that help?
I only watched the first one a couple months ago.
 
You're already dead to us, so not really.
 
user559633
only watch the first one. 2 is bad. 3 is okay, but it's like the hobbits took the ring to mordor via a fun house
 
2:36 PM
you're killin' me smalls
 
user559633
which is to say, 3 is an okay, but it's not a die hard
 
2 isn't bad.
It's just the worst of the 3.
 
Which one has SLJ and the crazy water jug puzzle?
 
Okay, cool.
 
2:37 PM
And Jeremy Irons. Awesome actor.
 
user559633
My mouse isn't scrolling and sochat doesn't feed to the bottom. In this conversation of all conversations.
 
I mean, the man voiced Scar. He's a legend.
 
@tristan did you try turning it off and on again?
 
I kinda want to say lies to make tristan sh*t his pants in rage. But I can't lie about die hard.
 
You can't Lie Hard?
 
2:40 PM
I was going to say things like "1 is kinda boring." or "Hans Gruber is a crap villian" but they'd be lies.
 
reminds me when a co-worker (who was much younger than me) argued that inspector gadget was a movie before it was a cartoon
he trolled me pretty hard
 
Yeah. Everyone knows the sopythonaut came first.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp YOU DONT GET TO MAKE THAT JOKE
 
@idjaw I should just stop talking about pop-culture shouldn't I? I've never seen either.
 
2:42 PM
@tristan What, did the joke not Fly Hard?
 
Literally playing with fire.
 
user559633
Literally. I will burn your house down.
 
He will literally set fire to you.
 
I better stop or I'll Fry Hard.
 
Oh well done sir.
I'm laughing out loud. Almost in tears on the train.
 
2:44 PM
I'm sorry for making you all Cry Hard.
 
YEEEEAH!
 
user559633
DM;TADH (doesn't matter; talked about die hard)
 
The cafeteria replaced its energy drink selection with no-carb equivalents and now it tastes even less like something a human should consume.
I wonder if I can buy packets of carbs and just kind of mix it in, to get back the original recipe. Like Crystal Light but without the pretense of being good for you.
 
I think you're looking for sugar.
 
2:48 PM
Is sugar a carb? I spent most of high school science playing with my calculator.
 
> Sugar is the generalized name for sweet, short-chain, soluble carbohydrates
Wikipedia says yes.
 
Good, good. now I can get packets from the grocery store instead of from a skeezy Internet chemistry wholesaler.
 
3:07 PM
In today's Confused Newbies segment:
Ok thank you.. good to know.. I wasn't aware that one could construct a list not using curly brackets. — CasperTN 1 hour ago
@Ffisegydd Indeed. Prof Snape Hans Gruber is an excellent villain.
 
I'm trying to port a package from python 2.7 to python 3 and I'm following approach 2 in this link: https://wiki.python.org/moin/PortingPythonToPy3k

Is this a valid way to maintain a package that is compatible in python 2 and 3? What common approaches are there?
 
Do you have to support 2?
 
If you're lazy, you can use six. If you're not, just write a compat file that imports what you need for py2 or py3 as common names, and import it.
 
@MorganThrapp Kaboom!
 
DSM
pandas uses six, and it works well enough.
(Well, to be fair, a lot of the code was extracted into a compat module.)
 
3:20 PM

Die Hard

40 mins ago, 5 minutes total – 20 messages, 5 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 3 mins ago by Ffisegydd

I come home to find all my cereal bars eaten. Someone will pay for this treachery.
 
rips off cereal bar duct-taped to his back and throws it at @Ffisegydd
 
I have won at computers today. Pushed a USB stick in the right way first time without checking.
 
3:36 PM
 
As foretold by the prophecy, you are now king.
 
Guys I'm making my first empire in Stellaris and I need a name.
 
Fizzygoth Empire
 
Test empire please ignore
 
3:42 PM
stackoverflow.com/questions/37214034/… duplicate of some Python 2 question that has "my-tabs-are-not-8-spaces".
 
Uhhhh sopython?
 
(I've cvd it as typo)
v
lol
can anyone explain me the rules of using tabs for indentation in Python3
 
@CactusWoman That wiki page is a little out of date. It's perfectly possible to maintain a single-source distribution. six is a rather old and somewhat heavyweight library, because it goes back to Python 2.6. If you only need to support 2.7 then modernize is a much better solution.
future is better - both are capable of taking a Python 2 codebase and converting it to a single-source 2/3 implementation
 
How to organize classes for a small project :
 
Sorry if this is more than you need - I am currently writing the 2/3 coexistence chapter of the Nutshell Guide, so I am choc full of that kind of stuff.
 
3:51 PM
How to organize classes for a small project : My total project including all modules and classes is about 1500 lines. Currently it is in a single file. I want to organize the classes into multiple files.

Let me the describe the imaginary equivalents of the real life project as :

(Sorry if the imaginary analogy upsets you. Job doesn't allow real requirements disclosure).

Teaching various languages to various types of animals through various channels

The important classes are :

1. A TeachLoop class that queues up the animals for a given command (say GO_LEARN).
 
user559633
@Ffisegydd sounds like you have a cereal killer on your hands
 
@holdenweb Thanks for the advice!
 
@AnttiHaapala Weird. The linked dupe (with an answer by Martijn) isn't appearing in the comments or the Linked questions side bar.
 
@WhirlMind Honestly? If you're happy with one file, and everything is easy to follow, just keep one file
In Python, everything is an object
 
@PM2Ring I removed it because it wasn't good dupe :D
@CactusWoman note that you do not really need any of these libraries
 
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