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12:02 AM
alright. the hunger has won. Time to take this party home. rbrb.
 
See you, @idjaw.
 
cheers @zondo
 
@doodla: I'm workin' on it right now.
 
Thanks.
 
I just found this link which seems pretty helpful. I haven't found the answer yet, but I think I will.
 
12:48 AM
@doddla: Okay, I think I finally found the solution. It looks like array[x, y] accesses the array at the x row and the y column. When x or y is :, that means to use all of them. That is array[:, y] will return an array of each value in column y. Also, array[x, :] will return each value in row x.
 
user559633
1:39 AM
 
What is that?
 
user559633
added to the minefield mienfield.com art
 
or a stenographic message? O.o
 
user559633
haha. just did a pixelart version of the one i did that's here stackoverflow.com/teams/50/sopython-community
 
wait? something's come from teams besides chats about whisky?
 
user559633
1:44 AM
haha, no, i think the teams feature is dead in the water
 
dead or at least stalled pending further development of careers (or jobs or stories or whatever it will be called)
oi...trying to get work done on an article that I need to submit next week and a few pandas/sklearn programs for the research project for my professor (directed study) : graduate studies have commenced in full :\ :)
 
user559633
what are you working on?
 
2:00 AM
article is about changing views on private vs. public vs. sensitive vs. etc. information between generations (need literary review by next week)
research project is just a fairly large project on quantitative analysis of data to show different data relating to college admissions, enrollment, and retention rates (is part one of a two part project with part two hopefully leading to an article)
 
user559633
for the article, is it safe to assume that the takeaway is that younger generations are more relaxed on what constitutes private?
 
mostly though there is some variance (like older generations give away phone numbers easily and email less, but younger generations give away email, or other account contact info, easily and guard phone numbers more)
the eventual end article will focus on training methods and other policy and technological issues that surround this trend in heavily regulated industries or organizations
 
user559633
makes sense
 
less statistics and analysis more research on that...but it is an interesting topic
 
 
4 hours later…
5:58 AM
^ what does the following statement mean...?
> Return the time in seconds since the epoch as a floating point number. Note that even though the time is always returned as a floating point number, not all systems provide time with a better precision than 1 second
>>> import time
>>> time.time()
1456898231.962
So does that mean the above is the number of seconds since that epoch? And I can safely disregard the digits after the decimal for computation purposes?
 
6:21 AM
CBG all.
 
6:37 AM
Hi friends , I need a sample code in gstreamer using python to demo the audio play with different speed
any body have any good resource?
 
@deostroll time.time() is equal to current time in seconds from 1/1/1970 00:00:00 with a precision more or less the current second en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_time so I feel removing the decimal points won't cause a big difference
 
7:06 AM
cbg
 
 
1 hour later…
8:26 AM
c.b.g
 
Cabbage!
 
cbg
 
Why do such edits get approved?! stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/11472662
Every time such a thing happens, I immediately lose faith in the whole edit review thing.
 
wtf :D
 
8:45 AM
That time when you write a lambda that uses a map that uses a lambda that uses a lambda that uses a map that uses a lambda
 
9:05 AM
Cbg
 
A co-worker has encountered weird habits of the shelve module, it tends to increase in size very quickly if you don't succumb to its quirks (which might be logical but we haven't really got). Anyone got a better library to recommend?
 
I'm afraid not from me, never used shelve or equivalent
 
9:28 AM
I don’t even know what you’re referring to
 
It's kind of like pickle. Only you don't need to dump and load each time you want to change the file in your drive, instead you just use it regularly in python and it changes as you use the object.
 
cbg, got a question about threading.Condition, or to be precise, about the example in the docs.
nevermind, got it.
thank you for your attention
 
@GLaDOS If you just want a key-value store, save the pickles as blobs in a relational database. That works pretty well
cbg, all
 
9:43 AM
I need data persistency
I can implement my own class that pickles and stores everytime I touch the object, but that seems very slow and error prone.
 
CIA
Dammit! cover blown.
CBG
 
Any body can give an application written in Gstreamer 1.0 and Gtk2?
i mean for study purpose
 
@GLaDOS :P
@Anes Not meaning to patronise, but have you googled "gstreamer pygtk" ? There seem to be relevant links there.
 
 
3 hours later…
1:08 PM
Time to start the cbg train.
 
cbg
 
Nope.
 
It was worth a try.
 
FAIL!
I'm also in the SOCVR room, and in there we got a nine-long train of "Morning"
 
1:16 PM
hello :)
 
cbg all
 
cbg
I've a how-to-import question...
$ tree
.
├── client_secret.json
├── do-sleep.sh
├── gmail-oauth2-tools
│   ├── COPYING
│   ├── java
│   │   ├── build-java-sample-zip.sh
│   │   ├── build.properties
│   │   ├── build.xml
│   │   ├── com
│   │   │   └── google
│   │   │       └── code
│   │   │           └── samples
│   │   │               └── oauth2
│   │   │                   ├── OAuth2Authenticator.java
│   │   │                   ├── OAuth2SaslClientFactory.java
│   │   │                   └── OAuth2SaslClient.java
│   │   └── README-java-sample.txt
in the root I've a file gmail.py
how am I supposed to import the module oauth2.py
 
FYI, long snippets like that are better suited as a pastebin.
but it all depends on where you are running your code from
if you are running from within the same level as gmail.py then:
from python import oath2
however if that is a complete list of your files you are missing an __init__.py inside that python directory
or better if you have something in oauth2 you are importing:

from python.oath2 import <thing>
 
user559633
1:33 PM
@GLaDOS what "quirks" are you talking about?
 
that didn't work...
 
Unless you specify the writeback parameter,

d['xx'] = [0, 1, 2] # this works as expected, but...
d['xx'].append(3) # *this doesn't!* -- d['xx'] is STILL [0, 1, 2]!
for example
 
user559633
oh, well yeah. i thought you were talking about quirks in it growing in size
 
There was something that caused our stored file to go from 2mb to 60gb
 
user559633
weird. what was it?
 
1:39 PM
@idjaw my confusion is in how to import it...the file is 3 levels inside from gmail.py
 
scrolling made it hard to see how it was actually structured.
 
and the path to it is like ./gmail-oauth2-tools/python/oauth2.py
 
I see where it is nested now
 
user559633
@deostroll instead of saying it didn't work, implement the changes idjaw mentioned, specifically about __init__.py files. remove the portions of the tree that aren't related.
 
Python's import system is my least favorite thing about the language. I have never successfully imported from a sibling directory of the current working directory, without manually inserting it into sys.path.
 
1:41 PM
I'm not entirely sure since I wasn't tending to this problem, but the impression I got was that it was because there was no writeback and we appended something directly to the shelve. Something that has to do with the example I gave probably.
 
yup. @deostroll , __init__ is imperative for Python to understand what is a module.
 
user559633
Python3's import fixes a lot of the grumbles I have about the language.
 
@Kevin Have you tried running the code from outside as possible?
Sorry for being vague.
 
So what do I do in __init__.py
 
@deostroll based on your folder structure. The 'easy' solution is to put an __init__ at every level and import:
 
user559633
1:42 PM
@deostroll Read the python tutorial.
 
user559633
These directory structure/import questions take up an inordinate amount of time and you're asking someone to debug your local environment. Do your homework first.
 
Are you suggesting putting the main code in a directory where everything it needs to import is in a descendant directory? I don't want to do that. To use KevinScript as an example, I don't want to move ks.py out of src just so it can access lib/parser.
Putting source code files at the top level of the project seems messy to me.
 
no no
 
what bs do I read here
 
user559633
@GLaDOS Weird, because Python would only be shelving data imported in the process. Did someone load try to pull '/' into mem?
 
1:44 PM
__init__.py is not required any more
if you don't have it, you will create implicit namespace packages
... unless if you are using an obsolete version of python
 
^^ isn't that for python 3 only?
 
user559633
Like 2.7.10?
 
no, it was because of an append we did, that was supposed to work correctly, but because of some internal implementation of shelve ended up growing in size much more than it should. My guess is that each append caused the entire list to get duplicated and then appended or something.
 
yes
an obsolete version like 2.7.10
 
@Kevin wait, is that a module?
 
user559633
1:45 PM
@GLaDOS Did you have a list that was 30gb?
 
It hasn't got an __init__.py file, so I guess not?
 
user559633
because otherwise
 
user559633
 
@tristan tbh it was a deque from collections, it had a length of 100000 items, which were small dictionaries. All in all it was supposed to be 2mb.
 
user559633
why wouldn't you be honest about a thing like that?
 
1:47 PM
hem...
 
I dont know tristan! I JUST DONT KNOW! ITS THE PRESSURE!
 
it's ok...there there.....there there....there there.
 
user559633
unless you were looping over that collection and storing as a new object in memory each time, there is no way you ended up with a 60gb shelve file from a 2mb object.
 
(I just remembered it was a deque and not a list,)
 
user559633
and if you did,
 
1:48 PM
I'll ask later if I can get a sample code
 
user559633
 
user559633
yeah, please do, i want to see this
 
It's somewhere in the GIT
 
user559633
i'm also only going to be posting will ferrell images today
 
please do
 
1:50 PM
@deostroll the conclusion here is, depending on what python version you are using, you have your answer. If you are on Python 2, you have to use __init__.py. If you are on Python 3 this is an option for you. With that, I think you're good to solve your problem.
 
I use python 2.7.9. Even if I use __init__.py how do I do this: import gmail-smtp-tools
 
user559633
garlic
 
with that, time to trek the kids out and get to work. See you all soon.
 
Funny, I just opened that page a minute ago to see if I can figure out my own problem.
 
1:55 PM
See you later, idjaw.
 
user559633
see you @idjaw
 
peace
 
Heh, this line is funny to me: "scripts in [the current working] directory will be loaded instead of modules of the same name in the library directory. This is an error unless the replacement is intended. "
"This is an error unless it isn't an error"
 
@tristan yummy
 
Thanks, Python docs, for teaching me that p or not p is true.
 
1:58 PM
Morning cabbage.
 
@Kevin to_be or not to_be :)
@tristan Excellent!
 
got a list of 0 and 1 and want to get the rolling average of it, is there an easy way to do it ?
 
user559633
@hmmmbob you want a way to get the average value of dividing by 0?
 
What's a rolling average?
 
user559633
I can do that for you in constant time. As in it will constantly be 0.
 
2:06 PM
if my list is like 0 1 0 1 for example, i want 0, 0.5 , 1/3, 0.5 etc
 
user559633
I know, I'm just being hilarious.
 
user559633
Yes, there is an easy way to do this.
 
sry if i worded it poorly
 
>>> seq = [0,1,0,1]
>>> average = lambda x: float(sum(x))/len(x)
>>> [average(seq[:i]) for i in range(1,1+len(seq))]
[0.0, 0.5, 0.3333333333333333, 0.5]
Finding a solution that performs better than O(N^2) is left as an exercise to the reader ;-)
 
average = lambda x: float(sum(x))/len(x)
TypeError: 'float' object is not callable
 
2:14 PM
Restart your REPL. You probably did sum = something() earlier.
Or possibly float = something or len = something
 
haha i did
how do i restart it ?
close and open sublime ?
 
That ought to do it, sure
 
user559633
exit()
 
same error hmmf
 
You could also manually un-hide the original sum by doing sum = __builtins__.sum
 
2:16 PM
but its good, dont understand your commands anyway, so prob not a good idea to use them before i learned them
 
I knew I shouldn't have used a lambda.
 
user559633
@hmmmbob what is this sensation i'm feeling...is it.. could it be...pride?
 
not at all
just means i have to learn about ti
 
Hmm, I guess del sum would also work.
 
user559633
seriously, if i could find a way to have a little parade in your honor for saying "maybe i should understand the commands i'm using before i execute them", i would
 
2:17 PM
So shines a good comment in a weary world...
 
user559633
@hmmmbob not criticizing you -- i'm happy you want to learn first. shockingly rare thing to do in these parts
 
calculating mean/average in python:
this ^ is the correct way
 
user559633
Oh neat, a new library for python3
 
module doesn't exist in the most popular version of Python, therefore it is worthless. If they really wanted statistics.mean to be the canonical solution, they'd backport it.
 
2:41 PM
Is output_file.writelines(input_file.readlines()) the right way to write a whole file into another one?
 
I think it may depend on what you're trying to do.
For the simplest possible case, I'd skip manually writing any data and just use the file copying methods in the standard libs
shutil.copyfile, for instance
 
Cabbage :-)
 
I'm trying to combine a bunch of files.
It's TSV data from a bunch of different years, but they're all the same format, so I want to just merge them.
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp Is this an automated thing or can you just do file_a << file_b on the command line?
 
My gut instinct is to use outfile.write(infile.read()) but I don't know what the performance difference is compared to writelines. Or if there is a performance difference at all.
 
2:46 PM
@tristan I could, the issue is that each file has a header that I want to skip.
There's also a lot of files.
Follow up, is there a way to tell Python to not error out on this:
 
For large files it may be preferable to use neither read nor readlines since by default they both load the entire file into memory at once.
 
        next(input_file)
        output_file.write(input_file.read())
 
user559633
touch concatted_file; for i in $(ls *.tsv); do concatted_file << head +n1 $i; done
 
@Kevin They're not that big, only 1400 lines or so.
@tristan Is that bash? I'm on Windows. :/ I could boot a VM, I suppose
 
user559633
i mean, you're relying on the speed of built-ins written in C and tested for 20+ years, so if that's a botleneck, sorry :/
 
2:49 PM
Nah, I don't care about the speed.
 
user559633
windows?
 
user559633
 
writelines should be fine for 1400 line files.
 
Ah ha, output_file.writelines(input_file.readlines()[1:]).
I am still slightly mad that I can't mix next and .read. I know I'll lose data, Python. That's the point.
 
user559633
if you were on a *nix based os, you'd be done by now :)
 
2:52 PM
I am done.
I will say, I've been using a Macbook Air for work recently, and there is some stuff I like about it, but overall I prefer Windows.
Especially with git installing the unix tools.
 
user559633
I can't imagine going back to Windows. OS X's unix commands are something that I use on a daily basis and almost never have an issue building things from source.
 
I can use most unix commands on Windows, and yeah, building stuff from source would be nice some times, but most things have a binary for Windows.
 
user559633
if it works for you, cool :)
 
Honestly, the biggest reason I'm on Windows is that our stack is entirely based on MSSQL, and it's impossible to run that on *nix.
Believe me, I've tried. :P
 
You should install cygwin.
 
user559633
3:00 PM
not at all impossible, but not as thoughtless to get going.
 
I have cygwin.
 
Bash is just too valuable a tool.
Oh. Then you have like 95% of what Unix stuff you'll ever need anyways.
Maybe 100%
 
user559633
@QuestionC oh god something inside my brain is on fire
 
user559633
searing pain and all i can hear is circus music over the ringing sound
 
I will also say, Powershell got REALLY good in Win10. Especially when you know how to call out to .NET stuff (which I don't).
 
user559633
3:02 PM
 
It's honestly difficult to think of developer tools people haven't gotten working in the Cygwin environment. I guess X doesn't work? (Never tried)
 
user559633
trigger warning: windows users thinking cygwin and getting some bashutils working has the same functionality of a unix environment
 
"Windows users"
 
hi everyone
 
Hi
 
3:15 PM
Does windows have ACK for sockets?
 
user559633
wat
 
@tristan DOES WINDOWS HAVE ACK FOR SOCKETS?
 
ACK is part of TCP. It's not platform dependent.
 
user559633
are you talking about ACK for tcp? ...^
 
user559633
@MorganThrapp oh, thank you. hearing's not what it used to be, y'know
 
3:17 PM
@tristan Side effect of spending too much time on *nix. ;)
 
Or cygwin
 
user559633
last time that i used windows for more than 10 minutes was maybe 8 years ago (ha ha good job tristan, great conversation; you're doing it!)
 
Lucky you.
 
@tristan Strange people, those programmers.
 
Hmm, trying to figure out if I can apply alpha-beta pruning to minmax if I have infinite ply depth...
 
3:20 PM
@paul23 You don't consider yourself as one of them?
 
@zondo lol no
 
user559633
@Kevin your job is far more interesting than mine
 
It's not for my job ;-)
 
@paul23 Then what are you doing in this room? Die heretic!
 
@zondo this is python -.-
 
3:21 PM
That isn't programming?
 
This is the titanic tic tac toe thing right?
 
Yeah.
someone posted a follow-up where shifts can be performed in any direction.
 
@QuestionC I see, okay that makes sense then... looked like just unix-based had it
 
Which actually opens up an interesting optimization technique that consolidates similar game states into single "canonical states". Ex. "X in center cell, O in west cell" and "X in center cell, O in north cell" have the same canonical representation since they're just rotations of one another.
 
Shifts in any direction seems like it would simplify the problem. Symmatry would reduce the number of states.
 
3:24 PM
In the previous question, orientation mattered because you could only shift to the right. Now it doesn't, which theoretically cuts down the state space by a factor of 8.
... Although now there's an added condition that you can't return the game to a state that it previously had, which is sort of a disaster for evaluating states.
 
@corvid I think you would benefit a lot from a network programming textbook honestly.
 
Since now a "state" is technically the current state of the board, plus every state it was ever in since the beginning of the game.
 
@QuestionC yeah, that's fair, I could really use it, TO AMAZON
 
@Kevin uh only the "previous state" matters right?
 
I'm interpreting it as all previous states.
 
user559633
3:26 PM
@corvid stevens tcp/ip volume 1 is what you want
 
I don't think there are any possible moves where you could return the game state to its immediately previous state anyway. Doing so would require a shift that eliminates exactly one opponent piece and zero of your pieces, which isn't legal.
 
@Kevin That could lead to a legal situation at which there are no more legal moves I think?
 
Yeah, which counts as a loss for the player that can't make a move. It's all laid out in puzzling.stackexchange.com/questions/28171/…
 
Hmm wouldn't a simple adaptive statemachine work then? Simply overlay a checklist of illegal states?
 
So now the actual search space is 3**9 * N^M, where N is the average number of legal moves you can make on any given turn, and M is the average length of a game.
I don't know what an adaptive state machine is.
 
user559633
3:29 PM
i'd guess an FSM + nodes that change?
 
@Kevin Just a statemachine where the node connections you have change depending on time. Still the states stay the same.
 
Note that in order to satisfy the question's requirements, we need to write an optimal opponent, not merely a very good one.
If there is an objectively correct move to make, the AI must choose it.
 
@Kevin Well in your original post you simply calculated all moves right?
 
Yeah but the search space was like ten orders of magnitude smaller.
 
@corvid There's a lot of theory behind network programming, and it's helpful to know because you need it to 'speak the language' of networking.

It's a lot to learn. Network Programming was a standalone elective when I went to school.
 
3:34 PM
All I did with networking in college was make some basic sockets in C. I think the whole class basically amounted to "look, they're like files, right?"
 
network programming is a beast
 
They didn't make you learn the layers and stuff?
 
you really need to take your time and really understand what is going on.
why different protocols exist. Why and what are the different layers. And why certain protocols can't be used because of what layers they work on....(ok I'll stop)
 
Well if you make a statemachine with each potential board settings a state (you did this right?), you could "simulate" a path? Since there are now actually a finite set of moves in each game - 9^3 at most (then each state is visited). So that's the maximum depth anyways.
 
@QuestionC The 7 layered model and 5-layered model? Yeah, but I don't really remember them because I tend to work at the upper 2-3 levels on a daily basis
 
3:38 PM
I don't think you need to know them in detail, it would just be unusual to have a networking class that doesn't cover that stuff.
 
^^yes (for the unusual part)
 
Interestingly, while examining the original problem I determined that there aren't any states reachable from an empty starting board that lead into an infinite loop.
You could have two bungling players perform N arbitrary moves, and then let two optimal players take over and one of them can always force a win with complete certainty.
 
knowing the detail is a on a "need-to-know" basis. I agree. My current job requires me to really know what is going on at the different levels.
 
user559633
RIP on Rails
 
Another dumb networking question: so with this ACK signal, if I continue writing to the socket, and replug the ethernet cable, will it then write all the commands that I wrote to the socket to the connected device at once?
 
3:40 PM
This was fortunate for me since it meant that the parts of the state graph I actually cared about didn't have any cycles.
 
user559633
@corvid ACK isn't really a "signal" (caution with using that loaded term). TCP is a stream protocol, so if there's missing packets in that stream, it will attempt to retransmit.
 
you mean in the TCP handshake?
 
user559633
Handshake is only at connection initialization.
 
user559633
You really should read an introductory tutorial on TCP as otherwise it will just be me explaining it poorly.
 
I'm glad I took a networking course. I don't remember how most of it works but I understand the gist of it. Even though it was that professor's first semester...
 
3:55 PM
I should go back to school, or sneak into MIT classes
 
no
you need to fail at a project and understand why it is not working. :P
I'm just not a fan of school.....so I just always choose the opposite argument to school.
 
4:15 PM
Lol no fan of school, sarcasm right?
 
meh, there's usually a perfect balance to be struck between school/education and actual pragmatic application and experiments... and my abstract knowledge is bretty lacking currently :\
 
Trying to figure out if it's possible to do def tree(): return defaultdict(tree) without assignments or def.
My usual approach of "throw a combinator at it" failed
 
locals().__setitem__('tree', lambda: defaultdict(tree))
 
I'm trying to preemptively write a solution for One line tree implementation before OP replies to my current attempt with "but I don't want to use semicolons or more than one line"
 
4:21 PM
@corvid Yeah, don't let my pessimism influence you. :) My undergrad experience was terrible
 
I really wish it was politic to say "X is the one correct approach. Do not be led astray by my manager's lies."
 
@QuestionC Lol that's to me already way to kind.
 
I instead went with "I suggest X". I worry the business manager will not pick up on my subtle nuance in the word "Suggest"
 
See, this is why you develop a secret language that only you and your business manager know.
 
Given, I've only worked as itern in companies but I tend to say -to the manager-: if you do Y you'll get worse results; just don't do it".
 
4:29 PM
Manager sent them a list of 5 different things we can do to solve a technical problem, asking for the BM to select some subset of those options. Basically he gave the guy 32 different options.
 
Why try to be "political correct" - I've never understood it; we're all adults right? So the way you say something shouldn't matter as we have the same goal anyways.
 
@paul23 Really? You'd be okay with someone telling you "Your idea is f**king stupid"? That's exactly the same as "Hey, maybe we can improve your suggestion"? (I know that's an extreme).
 
not an extreme. I was writing exactly that
:P
 
Well we're adults - and with that you shouldn't use cursing etc. But apart from that, yes I've done that with good results in my internship. (Once again: I didn't get paid so was basically giving free work to them).
 
I believe politically correct suggests I'm afraid of offending his personal beliefs. I don't think that applies to his belief that he deserves his job.
 
4:32 PM
"We're all adults right?" nope, not in the way that matters. Secure emotional maturity is the exception, not the norm.
 
Politic on the other hand means I'm wary of my position on the totem pole when I say things.
 
@QuestionC Not stating what's on your mind is bad for development - and thus for a company as a whole. A good manager knows this - so he will try to lower the bar and is always as open as possible. Making sure you don't feel afraid to offend him etc.
 
Yes, but you can state your mind without offending people.
 
The average manager is more interested in improving the strength and breadth of his own domain, not the company's.
 
"I think X would work better than Y" vs "Why did you suggest Y? That's such a terrible idea. We need to do X."
 
4:35 PM
@MorganThrapp I never said you shouldn't offend - I said you shouldn't take too much on how you say something politically correct. That time is wasted.
 
@paul23 I completely disagree that not being offensive is time wasted.
 
...
 
Middle management got their job by managing the people above them, not the people below them.
 
I agree that paul's approach is correct, but only in an ideal company where ego and irrational feelings and motivations of self-interest are all subsumed by an all-encompassing desire to improve the company.
 
@Kevin At my previous job, my manager prevented me from contacting the author of a broken algorithm because the author was the VP of Research for the company which employed us.
Delayed the project by at least a month.
 
4:39 PM
@QuestionC Still from my experience as intern really so long as you don't directly influence it just say so: "Why are we spending hours on this, X is better cause A, B, C". Would literary be what I could've said many times. And I know that would be well accepted during my internship.
 
Is there a way to execute some code after Django changes my model?
For example, if I want to broadcast a message over a socket or something.
 
Organizations theoretically powerful enough to enforce a selfless culture: Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, Heaven's Gate
 
@Kevin Or just small companies of a dozen people :P
 
startup, cult, same diff :-P
4
 
@paul23 There's good managers and bad managers. I don't mean to imply they're all bad. It's infuriating position to be in is all.
 
I'm actually wondering if I wish to work for a large company or a startup when finishing education (year or 2 from now).
 
Welp, "I suggest X" didn't work. We now have a 10-person email discussion amongst confused people with better things to do.
 
user559633
@QuestionC Pop out to lunch and let it sort itself out.
 
I have to implement what solution they come up with, so it's in my interest to guide them to the right solution.
 
cbg
 
5:11 PM
Just updated pycharm... God what is that new icon ugly
 
user559633
it grows on you, especially if you have multiple jetbrains products
 
Student account, but little use for other tools there.
 
5:27 PM
@paul23 apropos the how to approach manager question. Iirc you are Dutch? My limited experience it's that the culture there is quite different on this issue and what works there e.g. your "don't do it"could be perceived as rude in the UK even though it is meant as a simple statement of fact. Just a word to the wise if you engage in these debates
 
I'm dutch yes?
 
Fwiw, I would support a more frank approach, but my experience here is that it can be career limiting.
(here being UK, the only place I've held a work contract)
 
Maybe I should look to do my final thesis abroad so I can finally notice that difference in culture. On the other hand, doing it locally it is a good chance the final thesis also continues into the first job you get.
 
that could be a fun thing to do. I wish I'd have done similar. Kind like to work at Delft some time, they have good researchers in my area
 
@JRichardSnape Lol I study in Delft, now you made me really interested in what you do :P.
 
5:32 PM
Cabbage
 
Btw, you can turn thesis into job in uk also, as I just did, but not guaranteed.
 
Would you (anyone here) call filter an enumeration?
 
@paul23 agent based models in smart grids
 
@JRichardSnape never guaranteed - but especially when doing a thesis abroad it's harder (and I doubt I want that).
 
Sure, I can see that
 
5:36 PM
@JRichardSnape oh lol, that's nice jargon :P. Too far from my field to know anyone who does something similar.
 
@Johnston I wouldn't
 
@Johnston Not really.
 
Thanks!
 
@paul23 yes, my works is full of jargon. But some of it is meaningful (a little). I guess your field wa far from this based on topics you've discussed.
Anyway, I'm off for a bit now. Rhubarb!
 
cya
 
5:40 PM
Bye
 
I wish I knew more about the formal logic of lambdas. I can't think of a way to create a lambda that returns itself when called (without using assignment or locals().update tricks), and I can't think of a way to prove that it's impossible.
 
That's something that has never occurred to me. I'll probably fall asleep tonight pouring it over in my mind.
 
formal nerd snipe: replace the ellipsis with something that doesn't make this crash: assert (lambda L: L is L())(...)
 
Ok I'm killed by a truck
 
5:50 PM
@Kevin Do you mind if there is some code beforehand?
 
Lambdas plus a very small subset of primitive types is enough to make a full-fledged turing-complete system, so I'm leaning towards "this is possible but difficult"
 
You could define a class that has a __call__ method that returns self. Then use an instance of that class for the argument, and it will return True.
 
user559633
if you can get a functools partial in there that returns the same for repr as call
 
Hmm, you may even be able to define a class inline, using the type constructor...
 
So, Kevin, you work with TKinter a decent amount, right?
 
5:56 PM
assert (lambda L: L is L())(type("Thing", (), {"__call__": lambda self: self})())
 
user559633
type('starlord bait', (object,),{}) where {...} is a subnerdsnipe of replacing the ellipsis
 
Zondo's idea is the current winner, although I find the use of classes to be... Conceptually unpure.
@corvid Yeah.
 
user559633
yes, the use of an inline class is the unpure part of that.
 
Unfortunately it's hard to put constraints on my problem that disqualifies all "sneaky" approaches while accepting all "creative" ones. It's rather subjective.
 
cya guys
 
5:59 PM
See you, space cowboy
 
first I was a squire, now I'm a space cowboy
 
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