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12:24 AM
cbg
@TimS. Either you need to get used to it and build up an immunity, or you're allergic to Salad.
Maybe it's more like new underwear.
Salad, I mean.
 
@Augusta more like the underwear analogy... brand new guy comes in and starts speaking the native tongue... "hey guys, cbg"....
 
And typing that didn't make me feel awkward at all! :D
It took me a while, too. There are a lot of things you may find there is some getting used to.
Or rather, there were a lot of things I had to get used to, and this is my sole point of perspective on the getting used to of things.
That said, "Cabbage, green bean!" :y
 
@Augusta You're making me want to print off a cheat sheet.. hah
 
I just keep a tab open~
I MEAN NO
Memorize it
The test will not be open-book.
55% of your term grade is based on your fluency in Salad.
 
Haha.. I'm screwed then. Test anxiety disorder
 
12:36 AM
You'll be juuuust fine. :y
 
no cheatsheet: cabbage,green bean => hello, newcomer
aced it fist pump
 
NOBODY LIKES A TEACHER'S PET >:C
*cough*
Which is, "Good job."
Tim, if you haven't found it already, then you can use this: sopython.com/salad
 
Did you guys see this question? I found it a little broad to be answered but damn that'd be an interesting algorith
 
@Augusta Thanks.. I did find it :)
 
I feel like there should be an editable Extended Salad Dictionary, though.
We all know that "good" is "banana," but there is no "job."
I humbly submit "pomegranate" as 'job', for reason that it is the fruit most like work.
"Good job" may be contracted to simply, "Bananagranate."
Do not take it for 'granate.
 
12:41 AM
oh, it's too bad it's just food related. Making "job" == "hammock" would be great.
"Banana hammock!"
 
granted a number of us just memorize cabbage and rhubarb and ignore most of the rest ;)
 
1:02 AM
Pff, yeah. People like you, off with your pomegranates and peach and pear friends and things to do. >:I
It's no way to live.
 
tomato avocado ;)
 
If you get peas, ask for asparagus. Ask people lettuce.
You'll be fine.
 
hah! just cut processing time down for large database by normalizing the email field ^_^
 
I need some new coding music. Can anyone recommend some good electronica? Something in the vein of Glitch Mob/Daft Punk/Blackmill.
 
1:19 AM
All that comes to mind if Renard, Hybrid, and the soundtrack to Mighty Flip Champs.
Or I guess any of the Mighty! games.
 
I'll check them out, thanks.
 
How much do you like chiptunes?
 
I don't dislike them.
 
You might not dislike Anamanaguchi, then.
 
Grrr, my internet needs to stop being so terrible.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:09 AM
hi i
hi i have a problem with two for loop
listpass = open(pass_file,"r")
listusers = open(users_file, "r")
for i in listusers:
    print i
  	for j in listpass:
    	print j
 
use with
31
Q: How to open a file using the open with statement

DisnamiI'm trying to learn Python using a number of tutorials. I currently looking at file input and output. I've written the following code to read a list of names (one per line) from a file into another file while checking a name against the names in the file and appending text to the occurrences in t...

 
Hi, all
 
with open(users_file, 'r') as listusers, open(pass_file, 'r') as listpass:
	for i in listusers:
    	    print i
    	    for j in listpass:
        	print j
i tried this but i have the same problem, the "for j" loop is only looping once
 
change the indentation of for j in listpass:
it should line up with for i in listusers:
or explain what your trying to do
that's explaining the expected output but what are you actually trying to do?
 
3:46 AM
please use dpaste.com or gist.github.com for large blocks of code
@supertrainee you can't iterate over the same open file again unless you seek to the beginning: stackoverflow.com/questions/2106820/re-open-files-in-python
usually, you should be reading the files once and then building what you need with those data structures
 
@davidism ok i see it's working thank you
 
4:20 AM
Why do we describe counting system bases - e.g. base 2, base 10 - by the largest numeral they don't include? "Base 10" is kind of ambiguous unless you assume that the base is listed in decimal (and the word "decimal" itself comes from the word for ten, which is only meaningful if you assume decimal again, forever). Binary should be base 1, decimal base 9, and hex base F. Much clearer, I think.
 
5:02 AM
cbg autobot
runs away
 
Come back here!
 
5:50 AM
CBG all
@MartijnPieters you have edited it mate :) before edit it was ['This', ' ', 'is', ' ', 'a', ' ', 'text;', ' ', 'this', ' ', 'is', ' ', 'another', ' ', 'text.,.'] and after edit it became ['This', ' ', 'is', ' ', 'a', ' ', 'text', '; ', 'this', ' ', 'is', ' ', 'another', ' ', 'text', '.,.', ''] which is what the OP wanted :)
 
6:02 AM
@PM2Ring I think you would like this but I feel there is a dupe for it.
 
6:14 AM
@TigerhawkT3 the quickest gun in the west :). That is the badge I give you :)
 
@TigerhawkT3 because the X in base X defines the order of magnitude. Base 9 for decimal makes no sense to me at all.
 
It defines the order of magnitude for every base, according to itself. So it only makes sense if you assume that the "base" number is, itself, a certain base, generally 10/ten/decimal.
Watch me count to 10 in base 10:
1, 10.
Watch me count to 10 in base 10 again:
 
I don't know how to explain what I mean as I've only just got up, but you're wrong :p
 
0
Q: How to check new email from Gmail using python from a proxy?

AnonymousHow to check email when behind a authenticated proxy. ie. You have to authenticate to use internet. This works when you are not using a proxy: conn = imaplib.IMAP4_SSL(imap_server) try: (retcode, capabilities) = conn.login(imap_user, imap_password) except: print sys.exc_info()[1] ...

can any one answer this
 
6:20 AM
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F, 10.
The heart of the problem is that we're defining a number system in terms of a number... and that number also has to be defined as part of a certain system.
We just assume that that "base" is, itself, expressed in base 10.
 
@Anonymous no. Please don't link newly asked questions in chat, as per our room rules.
 
Or, more clearly, in base "number of fingers most people have."
 
Well isn't that an issue of linguistics and the fact that we haven't taken the effort to define special characters for numbers equal to or greater than the number of fingers I have when using special bases?
 
We have taken that effort: hex uses A through F.
 
I want to setup local server through other machines can communicate.
 
6:25 AM
I meant in general but yes.
 
I am using django
`import socket
ip_address=socket.gethostbyname(socket.gethostname())
execfile( "manage.py runserver "+ip_address+":8000" ) `
does the above code make sense?
 
Okay using the example from wiki may help, but I'm on my phone so can't easily type it out
 
If you see something like "base ç," you can immediately see that it's not a maximum number glyph you recognize. With "base 4080," you have to hope that the author is expressing the base in decimal. It fails more noisily.
 
@TigerhawkT3 that's just the issue of representing bases though, doesn't change the fact that Base 10 makes sense more than Base 9
Brb shower
 
It could be a good Abbott and Costello sketch: "49." "In what base?" "10." "And what base is that in?" "10." "And... um..."
A Binar would see "40, in base 10" and get confused.
Ignore the trifling fact that we are humans and not Binars.
 
6:33 AM
@TigerhawkT3 Your thinking has a one-off error. The term "base" means when you roll to the next place. So the rightmost digit in a number is the modulo of the base, the next digit on the left is the modulo of base^2, etc. That's what "base" is. Feel free to propose a different term than "base" for the concept you are describing, though.
 
With that, all numbers are expressed in base 10.
 
Ignoring the fact that we are humans using English approaches "turtles all the way down". Indeed, there is no universal terminology, short of going back to the absolute basics of number theory and taking it from there (what's zero, what's one, what's addition)
 
Binary doesn't roll over, have a rightmost digit, or anything else to do with 2.
There is no 2 in binary at all.
So, really, it's base 10... 10 in binary.
Using the highest glyph to express the base makes more sense.
 
the symbols are arbitrary, you could substitute 2 for 1 and U+PILE OF POO for zero and it would still be consistent. There is a place for conventions and using decimal to express the base, and using the base to express this concept in numbers, are useful conventions, but there could be different conventions if you can demonstrate a need
 
3A is in base 10.
10, of course, being the number after F.
Along the lines of "quis custodiet ipsos custodes," I wonder about quam numerare numeratio... how to count the counting.
Thanks, Google Translate.
 
6:42 AM
@TigerhawkT3 I think all that hammering has given you brain damage :P
 
No, the brain damage happened megaseconds ago.
 
@TigerhawkT3 then it is manufacturing defect :)
 
I also have a good bit about "digital" stuff vs "stored on physical media."
Spoiler: it bothers me that you can get a DVD that includes a "digital" version, because the DVD also holds a digital copy. The first "D" stands for "digital."
People forget that any existing copy of data must be stored on a real object. "The cloud" is just someone else's computers.
And don't get me started on those people who say "I don't want to download anything, I just want to look at it."
I am super fun at parties.
 
@TigerhawkT3 I believe you are fun to hang out with :P
 
7:11 AM
@corvid @Kevin I got the new github design thing as well :D
 
8:06 AM
I have seen many people having amazon wish list and other sites in their SO profile. Just out of curiosity does that work do they get any thing from it.
 
It probably works enough to justify the two minutes it takes. =\
 
8:29 AM
Cbg :)
 
9:13 AM
Cabbage!
 
Cabbage!
 
user559633
9:32 AM
I set up a wish list in my profile and someone bought me a car and sent me a kidney.
4
 
I wish people would stop downvoting instead of close-voting.
 
user559633
Not everyone can CV, but everyone can DV
 
Almost everyone can DV.
 
People should flag for closing then.
 
user559633
People should write better questions and answers
 
9:34 AM
But I’m sick of seeing actually good questions downvoted to -3/-4 just because there is some obscure duplicate somewhere.
 
user559633
I'd say it's a fault of the interface and site workflow if people are doing the "wrong" thing
 
And it’s even more annoying when that dupe target has an accepted code-only answer.
… even more if that same answer also has broken code >_<
 
This explains my condition :D
 
user559633
9:47 AM
I think it's funny to see someone as large as google doing it "wrong" when it comes to API responses: code: 200 response: {'html_attributions': [], 'status': 'INVALID_REQUEST', 'results': []} (for maps API)
 
10:29 AM
It’s kind of easier to handle
Many frameworks throw when they receive a non 2xx response code, so you’d have to handle the error code separately there.
 
Bob
10:41 AM
Hi all,
How to find a row number at a match cell value ?
I have a code below
 
@Bob up arrow to edit and then Ctrl+K to format please
 
Bob
Please advise
 
Please don’t post your questions here just after asking it on SO. The system is good enough that someone will eventually see your question and may be able to answer it. The people who are here are monitoring new questions usually anyway.
Just give it a bit more time, and you’ll surely get an answer, or some feedback.
 
Bob
Yes. I am waiting
 
user559633
I still find it funny that even on auth/key errors, Google still hands out an HTTP 200.
 
user559633
10:46 AM
There's a set of integers we all agreed could stand in as efficient ways to communicate errors, but yeah, sure, that's fine, say everything is fine and then make everyone parse your text.
 
 
1 hour later…
12:20 PM
Anyone else find it funny that a question without an actual question got upvoted so quickly?
Is the thought process "wow, I don't understand it but it sounds cool, so here's an upvote"?
 
12:46 PM
I stopped thinking about such things long ago.. ^^"
 
1:03 PM
cbg all
 
cbg mang
 
Yo
 
Cbg
 
so much cabbage at once
 
1:10 PM
It's Cabbage Time...
Okay that doesn't have the same effect as hammer time
 
poor @bob, attracting downvotes by drawing our attention to his questions ...
 
Can't say I know anything about email.
 
is the IMAP proxy using the same mechanisms as an HTTP proxy? How about HTTPS? How do you authenticate? The question really needs a lot more details, there is no such thing as a "one size fits all" proxy
 
argh
why am I so bad in communication
I hate being born with a beta brain
 
HTTPS proxy
and HTTP proxy
 
1:23 PM
that's not very informative, are you saying the proxy is a single box for all four protocols (HTTP, HTTPS, IMAP, IMAPS) and when you authenticate for one of them you can use them all? Still, how do you authenticate, programmatically?
 
let us first go for HTTP , how do I authenticate, programmatically and check for emails?
 
but again, there is no "one size fits all" solution, you need to tell us a lot more about what it's like -- there are multiple approaches, and easily dozens of small players which differ in large or small ways from how you would do it with Squid etc
 
@Anonymous weren't you asked earlier not to link newly asked questions?
Please don't disregard our room rules so easily
 
2:07 PM
Cabbage
@VigneshKalai Yes, there is a dupe for it: I wrote code for this problem (with Antti's help) 6 months ago. :)
 
Not sure what to do about Syntax error, print with sep= statement if my guess is correct.
 
Morning friends, who's ready for another day of inane python questions?
 
Close as typo? Using the wrong version isn't really a typo
Have we got a dupe for "why does this 3.X code not work? (I'm using 2.7 although I may not be aware of that)"
 
I don't think that's really a dup. Like you can have distinct problems with identical solutions.
If you're right, the problem should be "Why doesn't sep work in print?"
 
'Because sep="\t" is not valid syntax as a member of a tuple. Voting to close as typo' ;-)
The good ol' "close the question without providing OP a clear avenue to a solution" maneuver
Not sure what OP means by this. "I'll stick with 2.7. What 3.X IDE should I use?"
 
2:32 PM
He wants to learn with 3.X tutorials, but he doesn't want to get too committed in case 2.7-chan gets jealous.
 
@Ffisegydd Burn the rules! Anarchy! Riot!
 
user559633
Or not.
 
:(
 
Oh, he edited his comment. Sounds like he needs 2.7 for this project but would like to have a 3.X compatible IDE on the side
 
@Kevin You know that happened to me dozens of times, that suddenly windows/IDE decided to use an older install of python for new projects.
My python question got upvoted, for like the first time in forever :)
 
2:35 PM
Too bad I can't recommend anything because I just use notepad++.
 
Me too... N++ and a command prompt.
 
sublime text!
But is notepad++ better than idle?
 
I still use vim. But only because I refuse to have more than two programs open at once
 
dpaste.com/3GPX870 anyone know how to do a "relationship" with 2 tables in between... can be read-only ofc
 
I told OP that IDEs are usually version-agnostic, but I don't know if that's actually true for his IDE.
I have a dim recollection of playing around with Jupyter for an older question, and discovering that it doesn't support 3.X even though it said it does... Or something like that.
 
2:39 PM
@AnttiHaapala Class A needs a relationship with D, which needs a relation between B and C?
 
@corvid yes
 
1
Q: Append error in python

hanugmI am using JuliaBox to run python code in python 2. My code is as follows: l=[] l.append(5) And the following is the error I got: type Array has no field append But I have used append as given in the python documentation. https://docs.python.org/2.6/tutorial/datastructures.html Where ...

This was it. Don't know if it's relevant now though
 
Hm, can't think of any clean way of doing that
 
I just had such a strong craving for fish and chips you would not believe.
 
I would not believe you because seafood...gross
 
2:49 PM
@AnttiHaapala i will make it a question tonight
 
The ocean is raw soup. Protein, veggies, and broth are all right there, you just have to heat it up until it's cooked.
 
I'm a picky eater, but I try to go outside my boundaries every once in a while. I did try pad thai a couple weekends ago and didn't know it was made with fish sauce. I did not enjoy that...
 
Tried sushi, wasn't for me. Calimari tastes fine but I didn't care for the consistency.
 
@Programmer you're just wrong, ask @HieuNguyen :P
 
user559633
I'm also a picky eater. I only eat free range animals that I can chase down on the street.
 
2:57 PM
and that's why there aren't any cats in tristan's neighbourhood
 
my god why am I in the conversation :D
 
@idjaw and also no rats :P
@HieuNguyen because of your surname :D
 
Yeah I've tried calamari too...it doesn't taste like much but it's so chewy
 
yeah yeah we basically eat everything that moves :D
 
@Programmer ack on that, though someone named Nguyễn also likes that exactly because.
but anyhow fish sauce is easy to get addicted to
 
2:59 PM
the good kind
 
the trick is to at first have it in so little amounts that you cannot really taste the fish aroma, just the umami
 
I draw the line at monsters, e.g. tentacled horrors.
 
I'd stay away from Korean then.
 
Hmm... I've skipped sea urchin
but not for any particular reason, except that I was afraid I'd be allergic to it
and I'd probably skip dog too
 
sea urchin looks delicious
 
3:06 PM
and dog too :P
 
@AnttiHaapala :(
 
user559633
skip horse if you haven't had it
 
@JonClements no puppies, only grown up dogs ;)
@tristan why, it is delicious
a bit like reindeer
but cheaper
 
@AnttiHaapala well - since I'm intent on not growing up - that works for me :p
 
user559633
bleh, deer is good, horse not so good.
 
user559633
3:07 PM
the first time i had horse, i realized why we like eating cows so much
 
you've had BAD horse then ;)
cold-smoked horse is pretty damn good
 
@tristan you couldn't have missed the whole "horse meat scandal" we had in the UK, surely?
 
user559633
I hate horses, so trust me, if it was any good, I'd be eating them all the time.
 
user559633
@JonClements i didn't miss it :)
 
yeah stupid Brits, just shut up and enjoy the good meat ;)
 
3:08 PM
The new MTFL's motto: "If I hate it - I eat it" :p
 
user559633
new?
 
Fun fact: during WWII, there was a media campaign by the government encouraging people to try horse meat, because beef was scarce.
 
... except for people...
 
Reaction was less than stellar.
 
@AnttiHaapala I've had horse steak - it was okay... would eat it again, but it's not really something I'd consider deliberately trying to acquire
 
3:10 PM
Eating dogs? Are we cannibals or something? Cannibals who eat children?
 
@TigerhawkT3 yes we are - welcome to the dark side of the room - it's about time you knew :p
 
Ugh, I still don't get how I am supposed to use NoSQL
 
Well, it does have "no" in the name.
 
user559633
@corvid don't overthink it.
 
user559633
once you start thinking and caring about your data, you've probably put yourself beyond its ideal use cases
 
3:13 PM
I ate a squirrel once.
 
I think the No in NoSQL actually means Not only
 
user559633
I use nosql in one of my applications for its ease of use in doing a map/reduce before inserting to the database
 
Well, it seems to say I should denormalize everything, but also says you can't update nested arrays without a complex aggregation. So... why not just sql?
 
user559633
you're using nosql as sql
 
hmm squirrel could be nice
 
user559633
3:15 PM
once you start saying "but i want to normalize my data or enforce constraints," you've started using a screwdriver as a hammer
 
hem...
more like you've started using a pencil for moon rocket
 
It was a fresh, organic, free-range, cage-free squirrel.
 
or you've started using a rat trap to catch your pet hamster
 
But not unleaded.
Using a screwdriver as a hammer? Is this PHP?
 
@TigerhawkT3 nice, I'd want, so far hare has been the smallest free-range mammal that I've eaten
 
3:21 PM
All you need for squirrel is some wooded area and a small-caliber rifle.
...And a chef for a friend.
Okay, that's not really very convenient.
 
so how was the taste?
 
Alas, framework only supports mongo :\
 
It was fine. A bit more gamy than poultry.
 
which species was it even? googling, they say the Finnish red squirrel has taste of pine resin :P does not sound too delicious
 
I don't know; it was somewhere in CA. Possibly Los Padres National Forest. All I know is it was a squirrel and I ate it and it was good.
 
user559633
3:30 PM
I once ate my own tail, for I am ouroboros, eater of this conversation
 
Let me choose a new topic from the fishbowl of clickbaity titles... "Programmers of Reddit Python Chat, what is one thing you wish all of your end-users knew?"
I'm going to go with "how to send me a screenshot without embedding it in Word"
 
We Hackernews now?
 
Anyone have any positive experiences setting up Gerrit in their work flow?
 
@idjaw yes.
We use Gerrit in my current project, and I did all the set up.
 
3:45 PM
I'm currently doing exactly that right now. While incorporating automation via ansible
 
DSM
End-of-week cabbage for all!
 
@Ffisegydd Did you by any chance use jeepyb with great success?
 
@idjaw We don't really have any automation, just Jenkins for tests and Verifying submissions.
 
That uncomfortable moment when you submit an order to an online store and don't get a confirmation page so you're not sure if it went through...
 
@Kevin That Comic Sans is not a professional font.
 
3:46 PM
@idjaw I didn't use it, I meditated in front of my box for 42 days and on the 43rd morning the source code sprang fully formed from my mind.
 
You can always refresh and get double your order
 
:) @Ffisegydd I'm translating that to the pains I'm feeling right now are normal and I'll get there :P
 
@idjaw actually it was relatively painless.
 
Yeah, I actually did click submit again. I'm hoping I won't be charged twice.
The order/cart system on this website is full of unresponsive servers and internal errors. Kind of worrisome.
 
@Ffisegydd The issues I'm actually facing are more with jeepyb trying to apply default configs to All-Projects so I can apply it in my automation flow.
 
3:48 PM
I downloaded the war and ran it and suddenly there was Gerrit on my system.
 
yes. That part was painless
 
Do you really need to automate Gerrit? Surely it's something that is set up and then just is.
 
it's the provisioning of the server that houses gerrit
 
OIC.
 
so, I am putting together the standart config and having ansible set it somewhere for me...jeepyb will take it and apply it and Gerrit is good to go
discovering that jeepyb is having a bit of a hard time applying that All-Projects.
I'll figure it out :) Just thought I'd ask if there were any other fellow automation folks that happened to do something similar to this
 
3:52 PM
It's almost 8am... probably time for me to sleep.
I nearly added () after "sleep."
Definitely rhubarb.
 
yes...go to sleep before you start trying to chew your own ear
:)
 
4:03 PM
When you have an argument parser, are string values implicitly '' by default?
 
probably not, why not try it?
 
@Ffisegydd Overall are you happy with Gerrit? It's working great for the OpenStack community, which we use and contribute to, so this is part of the reason we are adopting it in our flow.
 
Sometimes, I’m a bit surprised what kind of answers of mine people upvote…
 
@idjaw I'm never happy with code review, my code is perfect and so I view the review process as unnecessary. However, for other lesser programmers I can see that it's a good system that works well.
 
haha. Great answer.
 
4:11 PM
@Ffisegydd lol.
 
DSM
@poke: I thought the OP wanted to group on [1] and [2] but since it's the same method I wasn't going to bother mentioning it :-)
 
I like the fact that to submit code to the actual git repo it MUST be code reviewed AND had tests ran on it.
 
@DSM Oh. I didn’t even see that. And the question is even pretty clear about it… oh well xD
But it’s funny that you knew exactly what I was referring to :P
 
And when you push to gerrit it basically duck-types your git repo. It walks and quacks like a duck so it behaves like normal, but your push isn't actually added to the "proper" git repo until it's reviewed and verified
 
Yes. That is a big part of favouring Gerrit. We've also integrated Zuul (love that name :)) to further help.
 
4:13 PM
Unless of course you're me and don't have time to write tests so just force-push it through into the git repo.
 
But that’s totally fine since your code is perfect anyway.
 
Exactly.
 
Tests just get in the way of your code and take up time than putting that gold in to production as quickly as possible
 
You guys just get me.
 
and screw branches....straight in to master.
 
4:15 PM
@idjaw Absolutely! I just upgraded this framework to the newest version, and half of my tests failed! It was so much work fixing those issues that only came up because of those annoying tests.
 
ignorance is bliss in this case. No tests just make you happier.
 
Seriously though: for some of our side-projects they're so small that tests would be a genuine waste of time (experimental bits/proofs of concept) and you can self-verify them if you give yourself the permission to.
 
depends.
 
user559633
I added performance tests to a project early this morning and figured out that my connections weren't pooling :)
 
Well one thing I did recently was "Make a side project that does nothing but visualise some (made up) data as a proof of concept of whether the visualisation technique works or not"
 
user559633
4:18 PM
I don't know if there's a word for it, but I like writing tests to make sure that $carefully_written_subcomponent is faster than $popular_high_level_package
 
Arrogance?
 
user559633
Nice.
 
user559633
Yeah, kind of. e.g. I make sure my connection/request module is faster than the Python requests library -- if it's slower, one of my changes broke a thing, and if everything is correct, it means i should rip out the added complexity
 
that's a good test case
interesting
we're pretty strict with testing. If something will touch production it has to have a test.
 
DSM
Sometimes the temptation to respond to "How do I accomplish this?" with "Did you try writing code?" is hard to resist, though it's never constructive.
 
4:33 PM
I responded with "how would you do it without a computer?" today.
 
DSM
That's better, though, because it points someone in the direction of thinking of concrete algorithms. Can be useful.
 
I was worried that I'd get the response, "I'd write down the question, think really hard, then write down the answer".
Arguably, introspection is a learned skill.
 
I'd just reply with "To whom it may concern. I'd ask a question on Stack Overflow by letter. Yours faithfully, Fizzy Esq."
 
It's understandable that OP would have difficulty telling a computer how to do thing when he doesn't know how he does thing.
Noob psychology is very interesting to me.
 
the comment by TigerHawk oh lord haha
 
4:59 PM
@Kevin Good comment there that you have to start with pencil and paper first.
 
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