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6:02 PM
@tristan on linux?
 
@ZeroPiraeus I thought my project was bad...
 
use the CLI :) I personally prefer git gui, but always wanted something like the GitHub GUI on OS X => that is easy to use, fast and quite beautiful
 
You should go to Sothebys with that masterpiece
 
user559633
@PeterVaro osx preferably. i'll just use github gui i guess :]
 
what's wrong with it?
 
6:11 PM
It's written in Ruby, but there's always about.gitlab.com which isn't too bad
 
it is by far the nicest Git GUI you can have...
 
as long as you don't mind running a web server and server processes on your machine
 
(also working with your keychain, better clone integration from the website and you also have a super simple commit && stage && push button)
@JonClements but a native app vs web app.. I would definitely go for the native
also GitHub GUI automatically refreshes itself, once the window takes focus
which is kind of a nice feature as well, you don't have to manually rescan
 
user559633
Oh, I meant locally installed client. Github.com is absolutely lovely
 
(I agree with Jon, btw, if you can, use GitLab => it is 100% FOSS contra GitHub which is not)
(although GH is more polished, and has a nicer web-view => better cached in google, etc.)
 
6:16 PM
I'm just annoyed that HgLab, with a very similar name, is completely unrelated and is Windows only.
 
6:38 PM
I think that "Syntax Error" question is really asking "when I delete the closing paren, why does it say I have an error on line six when the problem is actually on line five?"
I don't want to answer with "because the interpreter is dumb", but that's p. much the reason
 
cel
Argh, it always hurts to sacrifice own reputation to punish a bad answer :(
 
user559633
@cel you can't burn internet points for fuel, who cares
 
DSM
You can sell them on the black market for money which you can get to buy fuel, though. Or so I'm told.
 
@cel Leave a comment as to why you downvoted, The OP will rectify ... You remove downvote ... You get back your reputation
 
One upvote on an answer gives you 10 answer downvotes, is it really that big a deal?
 
cel
6:43 PM
Pet-peeve I guess :)
 
Disclaimer: I'm avoiding all downvotes until I hit 10k, at which point I will start downvoting like crazy.
 
user2555451
I actually go looking for bad answers I can downvote sometimes to set my rep to a cool number.
 
I downvote answers rarely enough that I forget that it costs points to do so.
 
umm... I just don't care... if I need to downvote something, I just downvote it... never have cared about the rep stuff
 
I have 1 rep that keeps toggling back and forth as I use it for downvotes and the answers get deleted.
 
6:44 PM
It's an unpleasant surprise every time.
 
I've never lost a point due to a downvote, as I try to make the OP understand as to what wrong he has done
 
@tristan yet
 
I usually just leave scathing comments
 
I am 2 cubes over from the advanced clean cars section, I could suggest it to them
 
The more sarcastic the better.
 
6:45 PM
The answerer will delete it himself
 
user2555451
It's not a lost point for downvoting crap answers. That function is vital to maintaining the site's quality.
 
^ I agree. Downvoting answers is great.
You may not be able to change the rank of an answer in an old, popular Q&A but for people who can see vote counts, there's a big difference between +50/-40 and +10/-0
I almost lost my edit privs right after I gained them, from downvoting answers =/
 
I do leave a comment like
Downvoted because 1. OP is using Py3, your print is invalid 2. It is stupid and wrong to concatenate like that 3. You are using eval — Bhargav Rao 14 secs ago
 
user2555451
That's a little blunt.
 
user2555451
Maybe say it is inefficient to concatenate like that?
 
6:51 PM
What more should I add
 
user2555451
Calling the guy stupid and wrong isn't in the spirit of SO.
 
You add another comment ... That guy will delete his answer
 
I rarely comment when downvoting - I dislike the fact that a bunch of people think they have a right to a comment, and don't want to encourage the idea.
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/28116458/… - non-repro according to OPs comment
 
user559633
"You are using eval" what's wrong with eval?
 
user2555451
6:52 PM
everyone jumps tristan
 
user559633
in the context of that question, yeah, what? but generally eval is fine
 
user559633
python wouldn't work without eval
 
user559633
eval is called almost every time you import a module
 
cel
Well, I think security issues are overrated when casually programming :)
 
6:53 PM
Eval is OK if you don't want to put any kind of restriction on what code gets executed by it
 
I comment on the post 15 mins ago, people answer after 6 mins and get 20 points
This is Py2 output ... Mac is cheating on you — Bhargav Rao 15 mins ago
 
user559633
eval is great. people using a gun as a hammer is what's dangerous
 
You can't just say eval is bad, because there are completely safe cases to use it, namely anything that doesn't involve user input.
On the other hand, you're still probably doing something wrong if you need to use eval rather than just writing code directly.
 
@ZeroPiraeus I agree. And in some cases where I've been thinking of downvoting, the author's entitled "why the downvote??" comment (if someone else dvs) pushes me over the line to actually press the button
 
@davidism namedtuple relies on eval :)
 
6:56 PM
gong
 
user2555451
I wish they'd put eval and exec in a module and get them out of the built-in namespace. That would allow you to keep their functionality without encouraging every newbie to use them
 
@JonClements and is somewhat slow because of it, see docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/changelog/…
 
@iCodez Yeah, just like re! >_>
 
@iCodez actually, since they're essential - I think they should remain builtins
 
user559633
@iCodez you couldn't import a module without eval or exec. they're in the right place
 
user559633
6:58 PM
if i find a pill on the ground and i eat it, i can't blame the sky and say it encouraged me to do it
 
That sounds like an implementation detail. Maybe CPython needs to invoke exec to import, but KPython doesn't.
 
user559633
sure, in the sense that almost everything is an implementation detail
 
user2555451
It's a typo: he just wrote his arguments in the wrong order.
 
Could be a conceptual problem. Maybe he thinks the order of the self.whatever = whatever lines is what determines argument order, and not the order of the actual parameter list
"self.direction = direction is the first line in __init__, therefore my first argument should be the direction"
 
7:18 PM
\pset null ಠ_ಠ <--- makes me happy
(this sets the display value for NULL in postgres/psql)
 
ಠ <------ makes me happy
 
It's like a roller skate with only one wheel
Or a monster truck style wheelchair
 
7:48 PM
@Kevin you are familiar with JS, correct? is a prototype like an instance of a class in python?
 
I am slightly drunk. And in my slightly drunken state I think we should set fire to linkedin. Slightly related:
 
@Vader I think so. There's more than one way to do OO in js, and I rarely used the Prototype approach.
 
@Ffisegydd What's the point of being "slightly drunk" - keep going until you see twice as many monitors you actually have!
 
@Jon steadying myself. Tomorrow might be a big one.
 
Need help here
Why would the Python creators make eval if it didn't serve a purpose, to evaluate strings as variables? Why is everyone so against it? — Malik Brahimi 5 mins ago
 
8:03 PM
"The devs made it, therefore it's good" is not very good reasoning
 
@MartijnPieters had explained it to me when I was on rep 65
 
user2555451
eval and exec are not purposeless. They are just misused 99.9999% of the time.
 
@BhargavRao It's just not supposed to be used on arbitrary input. If you trust the input, evaling it is fine.
 
Why would the KevinScript creator make a statement that delivers a mild electric shock to the user? Because I'm cruel and capricious, not because it's an inherently virtuous feature.
 
looks like the burninate fever is still going on: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/284243/…
 
8:05 PM
so, is anyone here familiar with scipy's sobel operator on images? Getting unexpected results
 
user2555451
@Bonifacio2 - sopython was only purging tags related to programming contests. That isn't our doing (not to say we couldn't have inspired it though...)
 
cbg @Martijn
 
@iCodez I can't believe I was sleeping during project-euler's. :(
 
So the answer is deleted and credit goes to ... ??
 
user2555451
The owner deleted it.
 
8:13 PM
Yeah, but who made him delete it? Was there any reply to his comment?
 
user2555451
Nope. Just your comment and his.
 
You can vote for Windows 10 to ship with Python: windows.uservoice.com/forums/265757-windows-feature-suggestions/…
5
 
user2555451
cbg
 
The issue with eval() and exec() is that people use them as cop-outs.
And they usually don't know about the security issues.
The problem with using eval() and exec() in answers on Stack Overflow then is that it gives people the sense that it is okay to use these functions for just about anything.
 
user2555451
8:18 PM
@CodyPiersall - That would be so much better if they only did Python 3.
 
So, don't use eval() and exec() when there are better alternatives which are also not so fraught with security risks.
(cold fingers)
 
@iCodez I'd be really happy if they just put Python 3 on there too. I'd still be happy if they put both, though.
I'd be unhappy if it only shipped with Python 2.
 
@MartijnPieters Do you remember this?
@BhargavRao: have you heard of the security issues with eval()? That's terrible advice. — Martijn Pieters Dec 2 '14 at 17:51
 
DSM
There are times I've used eval rather than write a full arithmetic parser. Life is too short.
 
If it's just arithmetic, you can just ast.literal_eval, right?
 
DSM
8:23 PM
2+(3**4) isn't a Python literal.
 
What's the matter, you don't want to spend six hours reimplementing and testing the shunting yard algorithm?
 
@BhargavRao Sounds like me, yes.
@CodyPiersall no, because arithmetic involves operators.
@DSM use newville.github.io/asteval next time.
That extends the ast.literal_eval() approach to arithmetic and numpy operations.
 
user2555451
typo
 
Hmm, my tag count hasn't moved since this morning, even though I've gotten upvotes since then... Is this one of those "updates once per day" things?
 
8:29 PM
@Kevin it is. 3.00 am UTC.
 
Thanks :-)
I'm considering writing a Meta post requesting that the "js snippet" button be disabled except for posts tagged "javascript"
I'm quite tired of people using it because they couldn't find the code block button
It's sort of an unreasonable request, though, since I expect most OPs choose their tags last, after they're done composing their post.
Maybe the "submit post" button could be disabled until the user clicks a "yes, I'm sure I want a snippet and not a code block" confirmation dialog? No, then they'd just click "continue" without reading the dialog.
 
DSM
@Martijn: one big exponentiation can still crash my system unless I'm limiting task resources higher up the chain. And it's not like I'm going to have time to audit a third-party library anyway.
 
Maybe the "submit post" button could be disabled, and there would be no "continue anyway" button to click? No, then users would add the "javascript" tag even if their question isn't javascript related.
If you assume all users will go to any length to get their post submitted, without actually applying critical thought, then that closes off a lot of possible designs.
 
8:44 PM
@Martijn mind if I edit meta.stackoverflow.com/a/284302 to include (and once it's empty)? That list makes it a useful reference for checking that the tags stayed dead in future.
 
user2555451
@ZeroPiraeus - is dead. I killed too btw.
 
windows CLI is poop :|
 
Anyone know how to automate silverlight web apps using python?
 
@ZeroPiraeus Go right ahead. Update the tag count.
@DSM Yup, it is not protected against run-away expressions.
You can put a thread with timeout around that.
I did look it over, used a simplified version of that for an answer, I think.
 
@MartijnPieters Done.
 
8:55 PM
@ZeroPiraeus nice edit!
I count 21 tags..
 
Yup. Counted euler twice. Fixed now.
So, er ... looks around shiftily ... ? ;-)
 
Hello all, I'm fairly new to python and was wondering if there was an accepted way of aligning the rows of two separate arrays based on a column value or if you shouldn't even have your data structures like that. I'm trying to iterate through my arrays and I want to sum the contents of a particular column.
 
use pandas
 
I don't understand the question, but I'm going to go with "use zip"
>>> Q = ["A", "B", "C"]
>>> R = ["X", "Y", "Z"]
>>> zip(Q,R)[1]
('B', 'Y')
 
I'm working with dates and my arrays might not be the same length or contain the same step-interval of timestamp but I need to align based on that timestamp.
Pandas is looking promising.
 
user559633
9:09 PM
research "goat towers"
 
is there a good IDE for python and javascript that allows you to create some kind of build script so you can just press "run" and it will execute some scipt based on your operating system?
 
like a server type thing?
 
more or less yeah. I just want to run my web server in the background or make some kind of simple dev build script
 
try flask
its soo light, ironically im struggling with its lightness right now with POST requests
but hello world server is up in less than 10 lines i think?
 
9:19 PM
@tristan That is the awesomest thing I've seen today :-)
 
what amazed was there was a pic of a woman with a goat tower tatoo..
 
There is a goat tower in Goat Simulator and you can go inside and it transports you to the goat palace and you can approach the goat altar and become the goat devil.
 
user559633
right? i'm going to build a goat tower in the future
 
user559633
@Kevin no way
 
@Kevin how do you know that? haha
 
9:21 PM
I don't actually own the game, so I'm half remembering from a Let's Play, but I'm pretty sure that's all true
 
user559633
wow, that game is awesome
 
user559633
"Sitting on the throne will make the Goat respawn on the normal respawn zone, but it turns her into Queen of the Goats and gives her a mask and the ability to "summon peasants" which makes goats rain from the skies."
 
user559633
haha
 
user559633
 
9:24 PM
Goat devil, goat queen. Semantics.
And what is a throne but an altar for your butt?
 
thats soo strange
oh internet
in other news @tristan any willingness to help with same error of Request header field Access-Control-Allow-Origin is not allowed by Access-Control-Allow-Headers.
 
i tried flask_cors, same error
 
@rodling I tried installing pandas after I made sure it had the feature I wanted but I hit a snag: pastebin.com/dE9AERQb
If you have time to take a look I'd appreciate it, I'm literally 2 days old into python
But I know a pip install should've been pretty idiot proof
 
I'm so gratified by the sudden expansion of goat fandom in this room
 
9:35 PM
^
 
pip install pandas didnt work? weird... maybe missing dependecies? like numpy or something?
 
like the error says, you need vcvarsall.bat, which means you haven't installed a compiler
the real solution to this is to ditch windows and use linux
 
user559633
that sheep led article is amzing
 
cel
@davidism you mean mac... :D
 
no, I definitely meant what I said
 
user559633
9:40 PM
how many years of scottish college does it take to learn how to herd sheep like that?
 
regular 4 to get your baahchelors?
or did i just mix goats and sheeps?
 
I tried installing numpy too:
 
@buddyp450 did you see my comment or just decide to skip over it?
 
I missed it sorry
 
can anyone recommend a python library for generating pdfs? google is giving me a bunch of junk
 
9:49 PM
reportlab is the one I always see
there's also pandoc, which can convert any* format to any* other format
 
yeah saw that in the django docs
i use pandoc
but it didn't work as well for my from html to pdf
i knew i wouldn't get all the css
but i assumed i would get something
what i'm getting is pretty ugly lol
 
well then that's really a different question isn't it? The libraries aren't "junk", the data you're feeding them is.
 
oh no, i gave up on the html to pdf stuff
i'm looking to generate the pdfs in python, hence the question : )
 
If it was me, I'd push back as hard as possible on whoever was suggesting the application be able to generate pdfs.
but otherwise, what's wrong with reportlab?
 
that's a good idea
i've already wasted a lot of time on this
on the html => pdf portion of it
haven't tried reportlab
gonna give it a shot now
 
9:54 PM
you're not going to get a well formatted pdf anyhow (without a lot of work), you'd probably have as much luck just generating text files
 
maybe i'll just leave it as html
 
user559633
 
user559633
i don't fully understand why people feel the need to give feedback and help microsoft
 
stackoverflow.com/questions/28119182/… has two not-answer posts by the OP giving feedback on my comments. These should be deleted.
 
@tristan what do you mean?
 
10:11 PM
This is the 3rd take on trying to tell the OP they got the wrong project installed:
@GilloBottini: no, you should not install pydnet. You already had pydnet installed. Remove it. You need to install the libdnet project, as per the Scapy instructions I linked you to. — Martijn Pieters 32 secs ago
Slow Friday evening.
 
user559633
@corvid why help microsoft or try to convince them to install python by default? why not spend that energy learning linux?
 
Yeah, great, you've got Python installed, but the ecosystem on Windows is still crap.
 
user559633
yeah, and you're still laboring for free for a company that's been aggressively against developers
 
Making it easier to work with Python on Windows is going to help Python a lot more than it helps Microsoft.
 
With Windows lifetime cycles, we'll be supporting Python 3.4 for the next 2 decades if MS were to bundle it.
 
user559633
10:18 PM
People can do whatever they want, but it would be a shame if someone that would otherwise bugfix for Python spent that time helping microsoft.
 
I don't know, having it installed by default is not really making it easier to develop, since doing everything else related to developing a project is still a pain.
 
@MartijnPieters Given the 2.x experience, that's probably true anyway ;-)
 
My boss won't give me a linux box, and I have to spend weeks groveling (via paperwork) in front of IT buttheads to get anything installed that requires admin rights on my workstation
So I'm okay with improving the standard features of Windows
 
@tristan linux is great for programming but it's not too good for other things. That's kind of why I like OS X. A lot of good parts of linux, a lot of good parts of windows
 
@AirThomas I've always worked with companies that are: "What setup do you want...", I just say, "I want this OS, these monitors and this chair and desk..." and got it
 
10:25 PM
Sure, and listen: I hate you for it
:P
 
heya @Padraic wb
 
Hi Jon, thanks.
 
But for now, I work for the state, and as everybody knows, state government's motto is EVERYTHING IS __===**FUN & EASY!**===___
 
user559633
@corvid oh, i agree -- i really like OSX and use it for my linux virtual machines so i can have linux without dealing with linux 100% of the time
 
@ZeroPiraeus how much Python 2.4 support are you handling?
ever seen 2.3 still in production anywhere?
 
10:29 PM
I deal with Linux 100% of the time and don't have issues. You guys just aren't 1337 enough.
 
I started with Python 1.5. Now, when did Windows XP come out again?
 
user559633
on the desktop? (davidism)
 
yeah, desktop and servers
 
user559633
i think it's fine up until i want to adjust the palm sensitivity or expect the brightness to be where i left it over a reboot
 
user559633
or stretch my battery life out
 
user559633
10:31 PM
it's overall not "this is the worst oh god," but i still don't find it as convenient as OSX
 
Battery's actually pretty good on my thinkpad, but I have the nvidia card always enabled and power plugged in, so it's kind of a moot point.
 
@MartijnPieters None and not for ages ... I get your point, and I'd be nervous if 2.7 became part of the default Windows install, but I think supporting 3.4 on Windows in twenty years for a userbase of billions might classify as one of those good problems.
 
I would get about 3 hours non-gaming, but the battery is starting to degrade so it's about 2 hours now.
 
user559633
yeah, to be sure, i use linux on the desktop sometimes and my problems tend to be with ubuntu "features" and idiotic decisions from their front end guys
 
Well, the solution to that is to not use Ubuntu ;)
 
10:33 PM
@davidism Which thinkpad series/battery size? (purely out of curiosity)
 
ehh... linux is lacking in a lot of areas. Seems like most of the more high level things are where linux tends to be most lacking
 
user559633
@davidism then just gnome? i still haven't found palm sensitivity and other little things that are minor-but-quality-of-life up to snuff
 
@AirThomas I'm not certain (it's at home), but I think it's a T420 with the smaller battery.
@tristan xfce, or possibly mate (gnome 2 fork)
 
I have a T430s with the standard battery, and it's terrible, like the battery in every Thinkpad I've ever had.
 
I think when I bought my T400 (410 maybe?) they offered 3, 6, 9 cell
 
10:37 PM
there's some tool, can't remember the name, that has a better gui for configuring the trackpads, but you can get at all the advanced features from xorg.conf if you're brave
 
Currently they're showing "front battery" and "rear battery" on the T440... I'm not sure what that means
 
user559633
yeah, i have an set of xorg confs that i bring almost everywhere
 
user559633
it's funny that the price is about the same or more for a similar spec/quality non-apple laptop though
 
user559633
maybe i'll turn my old macbook air into an xfce-top (this has been stream of consciousness with tristan. tristan stream of consciousness depends on readers like you)
 
My 6-cell battery barely holds charge for an hour, but it's also from 2009 so I don't expect much from it these days
 
user559633
10:40 PM
my couch macbook air is from 2008-2009 and it still gets 4+ hour of battery life
 
can macbook airs handle world of warcraft?
 
pretty interesting:
in C, 54 mins ago, by Kristopher Ives
https://github.com/defuse/swatd
 
Lenovo's battery life utility is utter shit, I'll say that.
@corvid Can any laptop sold today not handle WoW?
 
not sure this cooking Chicken curry for 50 people is going well
 
@JonClements That's a lot of plastic film to pierce with a fork :-P
 
10:45 PM
It's for a social event at the local club, I just happen to have two ovens - so a few of the members are downstairs cooking - thought that'd be gone by now though since they've been here since 7
 
@AirThomas dunno, I'm kind of amazed at how good macbook airs are for... what they are
 
Bet your house smells amazing though :-)
 
@Zero yamming fantastic :)
 
Provided they don't start out by frying 50 servings of peppers for a spicy masala
You'd need a gas mask
 
Ha! Yeah ...
 
10:49 PM
I have done a batch for 25, it took much longer than expected
Mostly because of increased time for things to change temperature and liquids to reduce
 
Rice for any more than half a dozen gets kinda tricky to control too.
 
Rice will be done tomorrow
 
Rice cookers are the reason I've never met a Korean who knows how to cook rice.
Also: down with electronic calculators! Get off my lawn!
 
umm... think they' got a bunch load of microwavable rice pouch thingies
iirc, they'll be borrowing my microwave and the old one I have in the shed for tomorrow night
 
10:53 PM
I met someone who cooked rice the way I cook noodles, by boiling a huge pot of water and draining the cooked rice
 
For large quantities it's easier that way than doing it "properly" ... generally if I do that I keep the water for stock.
 
anyway - they're cleaning the kitchen as they go along, so that's good - not sure how long it's going to take - so just left 'em a spare key downstairs, they can let themselves out and lock the door when finished
 
And instructions to leave you some, presumably :-)
 
I had a takeaway curry last night, they're doing a sheperds pie as well as an alternative, so I've requested one of those :)
 
I don't think I could get tired of curry. Assuming it's not always the same masala.
 
10:57 PM
Pop fact: at high altitudes, the quantity of water you need to cook rice increases.
 
half a can of k1664 left, then I'm off to bed :)
 
@Zero Not if you're using a pressure cooker. :)
 
wb @Cody
 
@AirThomas Hmm, I suppose not ... although presumably there'd be a slight difference; that valve thingy is going to maintain a pressure differential rather than an absolute pressure, I would imagine, and it's the lower atmospheric pressure that reduces the boiling point of the water and hence increases the amount of water (and time) needed.
 
Thanks @JonClements. This room is a happy place.
However, cabbage all! Driving to spend the weekend with my wife's family.
 
11:02 PM
@CodyPiersall have a safe trip... see you soon... rbrb for now
 
11:13 PM
Ok, gotta get ready to go out ... rbrb all ...
 
@Zero have fun!
 
user2555451
resource request
 
11:43 PM
I did a double-take when I saw the author, before noticing the date
 
user2555451
That's why I came here. That question would never get through the queue.
 
11:56 PM
End of the day on a Friday, it still may not
 

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