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00:01
@JonClements don't say me your opinion about the a python watch files for run tests
wim
wim
@JonClements regarding a canonical dup for that, well yours is as good as any, it is correct and complete. Just use that. I would not see it as "self-indulgent" .. the golden hammer is given to you precisely so you can do these kind of cleanups
00:11
cbg all
hiya
@cyberra hi
random, I've recently learned the value of using virtual environments (I previously mostly only wrote short single-purpose Python scripts)
should I put all the files related to a project within the virtual environment folder?
Or should I leave that folder alone and have another location for the code/project files?
for simplicity you should put files in venv project folder
ok, just make a new folder or have them in the root where the bin/ and include\ lib/ folders are?
i.e. a new folder inside it?
bin/ include/ lib/ it's a folders of environment
just create another app/etc/whatever folder for your app
00:22
@cyberra k just making sure, thanks
any wxPython users? On a Mac, Cocoa or Carbon?
 
3 hours later…
03:17
cbg to the people
03:52
@MattDMo cbg
greetings, Daи. How goes it? I'm trying to upgrade Python on my Ubuntu VM, which seemed to go well enough, but now I can't get SublimeREPL to run IPython correctly. Bother...
04:12
@MattDMo that stinks
@MattDMo I'm doing OK - just decided that rather than upgrade yet another deprecated single-purpose script, I'm going to integrate a bunch of them related to a similar phase of my workflow and make it into something decent
but when the list of dependencies include things like: LaTeX (including installing a custom style/class), Sphinx, and NLTK - I think it's time to simplify things
yeah, sometimes I think I know too much for my own good :) The PYTHONPATHs from the system Pythons (2.7.6 and 3.4.0) included a couple different site-packages-type directories, some in /usr/local/lib, some in /usr/lib, and I'm trying to consolidate them all into a single directory, so no matter if I install via apt-get, pip, or python setup.py install they'll all install into the same place. So far, it's not working out, though...
@MattDMo ugh
shell or Python scripting, or both? Consolidation is always good, that way you can make changes one place and they apply everywhere. Of course, if you break something once it's broken everywhere :)
anyone can help me with fixing disqus
@Donnie in what context? Django, Flask, Wordpress...
04:23
take a look at this religious blog i'm working on: godsdailymessages.tumblr.com
seems to be working fine for me - I just posted a comment. BTW, you know that this IS the Python chat room, right?
04:47
@MattDMo both, mostly Python, but actually some C# in there too haha
@Daи don't be embarrassed, we all make mistakes :)
@MattDMo @Donnie works fine for me
not sure how you'd fix it in disqus if it didn't...
I'd think you were just trying to get us to visit as a ploy, but the lorem ipsum text made me reconsider
seriously, the (very) little bit I've played with C#, I've liked it much better than Java, for some reason. The code just seems cleaner, and even though there's way more cruft than I'm used to dealing with (having to declare variables and types, etc.), for what it's good at it's not too bad...
05:02
@MattDMo yeah, I don't mind it
and sometimes it's a lot easier to implement a simple GUI with C# than with wxPython
shoot, after upgrading - I can't even get wxFormBuilder to compile!
@AnttiHaapala cbg
@Donnie those texts in your blog really do not make much sense...
Though Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, primis timeam necessitatibus eam ut, id nec odio facer salutandi I can agree with, then the Cum ea error denique, veritus suscipiantur eos ei. Aliquip iracundia ei vis, agam brute eu mea, quo atqui omnes eirmod et is dubious as best.
05:25
@Antti I think he's left the building. However, my real problem is with Nulla consectetur felis vel lectus volutpat luctus in the second post. Clearly not a valid conclusion in the Catholic tradition.
05:52
0
A: Counting line occurrence and dividing by total number of lines - unix / python

Antti HaapalaNote that the uniq only counts repeated lines, and it must be preceded by sort for it to consider all lines in a file. For sort | uniq -c, the following code using collections.Counter is much more effective as it does not need to sort anything at all: from collections import Counter with open('...

if I do not get that bounty then OP be cursed
06:51
I'll upvote anything with counter in it :p
@Ffisegydd every time I see your chat user description, I chuckle
That was a very civil discussion about the dupe "controversy".
07:11
;-;
I don't think wim appreciated Jon's points though
He just thought that any dupe would do
Still it's over now.
You're only 76 behind now!
But you have to go to bed so I need to make the push...
Morning
07:59
Cbg!
08:36
cbg
199 to go. I need to push it while davidism is asleep.
@Ffisegydd queue up the 80s montage themes again!
40 rep this morning so far.
Wow someone using 3 spaces for indentation O_o
That's certainly different :)
I see wim decided to reverse the closure order
08:47
I believe in you Stewie! You can do it!
Did I read somewhere that Stallone got hospitalised for a bit after Lundgren did hit somewhat hard?
I know he was hospitalised filming the Expendables maybe a year ago
That'd probably have been Expendables 2 then I guess...
I actually like those films. I know they're just gratuitous violence but I still like them.
Yeah... I do like films you can switch your brain off and just enjoy the car chase, punch ups and explosions :)
Damn OP is making me work for this one. Bloody moving goal posts.
09:00
Done
74 for the day so far.
Need to keep on going before Martijn wakes up.
Sleep is for the week
That's what I heard
Cabbage btw
Huh, the last time I've answered a question was at 30th July
Close to mpl bronze too.
@IntrepidBrit word up :)
09:13
@JonClements Woof up
someone could have benefited from Martijn Pieter's internals video :)
Here's an option question to the floor - does anyone have a decent way of managing their bookmarks? I have a trillion-million-contrillion of the buggers and I'm sure I've read at least 5.
I typically just use folders.
(I assume you mean internet bookmarks and not physical objects to mark your position in a book)
@IntrepidBrit you've book marked every page on the internet?
Have you even heard of search engines?
@Ffisegydd I tried that. Now I have a xinthillion folders to boot. No idea if I'd read them all
09:16
Interesting idea there @Jon I'll have to Google what a "search engine" is
On the plus side though, your bookmark database might be worth a few £s :)
@JonClements What?! I what's a search engine? I send out bot crawlers to explore new sites and lands, claiming them from IntrepidDom
It's like the imperialist-colonial way to find web pages. Any other way just isn't British
Do you leave the Scottish flag on every page you find to claim it?
And if it doesn't have a flag, I claim it
@IntrepidBrit sure you're not just Jobe from The Lawnmower Man?
At least sopython.com is safe - we've got the flag flying as the favicon
@Ffisegydd Nope, just the Union Flag :). I'll have to worry about that if we go independent though....
@JonClements whoosh, haven't seen the Lawnmower man
You what!?
Neither have I.
Percentage wise I am now closer to 5k than you are to 50k @Jon.
We did agree that the loser has to pay the winner £10k right?
I heard that
09:23
gives @IntrepidBrit the golden penny back
Now go buy some clothes.
09:30
@IntrepidBrit Oh dear, that doesn't bode well.
One more such strike and it's goodbye to your geek membership card!
Aw @Jon, won't you play?
He dropped the ball.
09:33
He definitely did. Bad doggie!
@MartijnPieters Whattttt?
cbg
Next thing you'll tell us you never saw Weird Science either.
Ball.... There's a ball... where where where attempts to wag his tiny tail
@Martijn I watched that again the other day :)
WHERE'S THE BALL DARN IT wants ball, wants ball, wants ball
We'll have to see if @Antti wants to throw it again.
is taking a stroll through memory lane at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…
... What's Weird Science?
Hahaha, my MP must absolutely hate me
All Europeans should be looking very interestedly at TTIP by the way
09:51
@IntrepidBrit Leave the channel right now and don't come back until you have reviewed the Wikipedia link I just posted and watched anything scoring over 6.0 on IMDb. How can we have geeky conversations here without some proper shared background culture? Eh?
@MartijnPieters No, YOU leave the channel until you've reviewed the wikipedia link you just posted and watched anything scoring over 6.0 on IMDb.
What's Flash Gordon?
@MartijnPieters which ball?
I am not throwing either one of my balls anywhere!
I had the D.A.R.Y.L. film poster, after winning pre-screening tickets.
09:54
only me cares bout this annoying sound from chat? :D
The use of a SR-71 seriously impressed me..
it's really annoying
@AnttiHaapala That ball.
@cyberra the sweet sound of attention, you mean?
yeah, i mean sweet annoying sound of attention
@cyberra There is a speaker icon above the room title, next to the all rooms button. I suggest you click it then. :-)
09:56
Haha... Brian Blessed was great in Flash Gordon :)
GORDON'S ALIVE!?
@JonClements Ok, I guess you can have 1 of my balls
@MartijnPieters I really enjoyed that film
@Antti woof woof! waggles tail
@IntrepidBrit I fear I already have. And most of the films under 6.0 too..
Do you ever seen some info about DHT libs in Python? Or tutorials?
09:58
@IntrepidBrit +1 for ttip--
@MartijnPieters Awesome ;)
@AnttiHaapala It's crazy that this is going through. They have this kind of agreement with Canada, and they've taken on various Canadian institutions and won
I once helped organise a World Record video watching attempt.
They watched almost nothing but Sci Fi.
They broke the record; pity it was broken again a few years later.
Almost nothing?
Almost exclusively?
Was there a cheeky "Dirty Dancing" in there? You can tell me...
10:00
Mostly?
Most probably.
@IntrepidBrit no one cares, everyone just cares about say continuing bans on gay marriages here
But it may have gotten lost amongst the franchises. Lawnmower Man + Lawnmower Man II, Star Wars episodes 4. 5 & 6, Star Trek movies galore.
@AnttiHaapala :/. I like that when the UK finally got around to legalising gay marriage - it was just done clicks fingers and we moved on
I think the instructions to the sponsoring video rental store were along the lines: bring us all your Sci Fi. We'll pad out the time with whatever else you got that's popular and not a chick flick.
@MartijnPieters No Back2TheFuture?
10:03
Of course Back 2 The Future was in there.
This was around 1993 somewhere.
So parts I, II and III were all there to watch.
@MartijnPieters Good. Otherwise I would have to keep saying jiggawatts at you until you went criminally insane
10:38
Why on earth does TortioiseGit have to close all of my programs/life to update?
Because Tortoises are sadists.
They certainly take their time over things
Perhaps you need to look at alternatives.
SourceTree on Mac is an excellent Git client.
What I saw of their Windows version was less stellar, but still good.
Part of the problem was Windows itself.
sounds like Windows
11:08
@Ffisegydd fear me Stewie - I just got a +5... I'm a getting there!
@MartijnPieters To be honest, in the end of the day it's not too bad. It doesn't update that often. It's just frustrating that it has to shut down my environment to such a level that I might as well just restart
NAA flag fodder
Trivial typo error.
Perhaps premature; the OP made the typo in the question, not in their actual code and are not realising the selector variable no longer holds the same value.
1 message moved to Trash
11:32
@MartijnPieters fair enough - I've retracted my vote
If it's a Square - why does it need a length and a width ? — Jon Clements 17 mins ago
OP has commented in reply to someone else, but not answered that - I'd love to know the rationale though
12:01
Lost in Translation ?
@IntrepidBrit you going back to films now~?
:P I was responding to you
It seems that the Your views are different to mine and therefore stupid thing is a huge trend in Youtube.
Which is a shame because a lot of people have interesting opinions that I would be willing to talk about.
@Iplodman I don't think I've seen any constructive comments on youtube
12:11
@Iplodman I think that you're wrong, and as such, would you kindly refrain from commenting in the future. Your comments are stupid :P
Bleh. Misunderstood what that OP wanted.
Deleted answer, upvoted Martijn :P
It's inevitable
@JonClements Too true.
> All I said was "so what if it is?" CinemaSins and Yahtzee didn't invent jack s**t, there's nothing morally wrong in copying their style.
Ideas on this?
wim
wim
@JonClements correct , I have closed it the other direction now. Although I don't really understand your rant or why that made you upset, in future I won't bother closing dupes on older questions for fear of offending anyone
@wim up to you - great... I've got "badger badger badger" going around my head now :)
12:22
@wim I think the problem was that (try to imagine this from our point of view) you took a question that was 18 months old and closed it as a dupe of one you'd answered a month or so ago. That could easily be construed as shady/abusive (trying to funnel attention to your question).
Trying to remember the other one that came out about the same time...
wim
wim
I have nothing to benefit from that
Cant we server cgi scripts inside nested dir?
wim
wim
I was just linking up the dupes, I really don't care which direction the link goes
It depends how much you love imaginary internet points (aka rep).
wim
wim
12:23
I like to see SO clean and tidy , because it has helped me a lot having dupes linked up
nested inside cgi-bin?? eg. I have a script script.py in cgi-bin/scripts/scripts.py. But when I do an ajax call to it it return a string
I agree with you. And a big part of what we do is here is tidy stuff up. But it could look abusive as you linked it back to your own question. It could look like you were trying to funnel attention to yourself for upvotes.
wim
wim
I don't care so much about "points" although everyone gets a bit miffed if they receive downvotes for no reason related to the actual content
@JonClements ♪ mushroom ♬ mushroom ♩
@Martijn thanks :)
12:25
I'm not saying you were, but from our point of view I'm sure you can understand that it could be thought of that way.
Anyway it's sorted now.
heya @Pilot
wim
wim
i already have every privelege , I dont need points for anything
as an aside, this etiquette relating to which is a canonical dupe and the "we" Jon speaks of in the meta answer is neither obvious nor visible to other SO members
@JonClements But why I am getting script in string form
@JonClements I am returning a json from script.py. i am using python 2.7
wim
wim
I looked at sopython.com and frankly it all looks a bit "cliquey"
@Pilot are you remembering to set the content type?
12:27
Think what you will. Everyone is free to join us here and we work together to try to tidy up the Python content.
Yup I did
`print "Content-Type: application/json" `
`print`
I thought 2 blank lines had to separate the header...
print json.dumps( {'key': value})
wim
wim
it does not seem that everyone is free to join
How so? Did you not join this chatroom freely? The only thing stopping anyone is 20 rep needed to speak in here.
wim
wim
12:29
I was doing an action that I thought was a cleanup and instead it is suggested I'm being cheeky, self-indulgent, abusive, self-serving etc
the chat room says rule #1 is be nice
#!/usr/bin/env python

 import cgi
 import json
 import sys

 form = cgi.FieldStorage()
 ASM = "xyz"


 from db import cdb

 print "Content-Type: application/json"
 print

 def getVolStats():
     return {
             'accelerated': cdb.getStats(),
         }

 print json.dumps(getVolStats())
@JonClements My complete script
wim
wim
I certainly have not got that impression , and in fact the whole thing just really make me feel more discouraged from participating
my 2c
@wim just because the rule says "Be nice" doesn't mean that we panda around. The fact is that it looked like you were abusing your powers. If that's how you feel then I don't suppose there's anything more to say about it. You'll always be welcome back if you want to contribute.
@Pilot Please code format that for us :3 Edit the message and use Cntrl+K.
wim
wim
show me where in the stack exchange faq my action was an "abuse"
i simply didnt know there should be any chronological ordering to dupes
12:33
@wim the chronological ordering doesn't matter at all.
wim
wim
if the designers wanted it that way they easily could have enforced that
so in what way is it abusive then
vote to close dupes is for vote to close dupes
There is no requirement for dupes to be closed in chronological order.
I think Ffisegydd did not express that you were being abusive, just that other might. He was trying to help you avoid that impression.
The idea is that dupes are closed towards the better post.
wim
wim
i agree with that idea
@Iplodman can you check updated script
wim
wim
i don't agree in this case which is the better post, they are both fine
12:34
If a newer post has a better formulated question and the answer covers more ground and is written better, then by all means use the newer post as the target.
@Pilot Yep, that's better :P
In case of equal quality, it is better to give the older post seniority, as it may be more widely linked to from the outside.
As well as a hat-tip to being first.
@Iplodman what else do I have to do to receive json response ?
When voting to close as dupe in the opposite direction towards a post you wrote yourself, the community can see this as a conflict of interest, so be careful there.
@Pilot I'm not really a JSON guy :P Although I could mention that the dictionary you're returning has awful code formatting.
return {'accelerated': cdb.getStats(),}
Would be better.
wim
wim
12:38
ok I see that now
but my point stands that these unwritten rules are not obvious
I was confused about what happened and came to chat via meta to find I was already being bitched about by another member
@wim Permalink?
wim
wim
its not exactly inclusive or welcoming community, as it claims to be, I'm just saying you might want to think about that
I am on here because I have been helped many times and I tried to help others too
I am not yet up to date on the background; reading up on last nights' transcript here.
I regret I was in somewhat a bad mood after a very bad day...
wim
wim
Martijn in particular thanks to you bcos you help me all the freaking time :)
12:43
@wim Martijn's a non-stop answering machine :)
@JonClements I'm scared he's a SkeetFork
Aug 8 at 13:23, by tristan
What, no? He's like a wet towel soaked with answers. If I twist him, more answers will just fall out.
I'll admit that when I did first see this I thought it was gold-badge-power-abuse. Though I then thought about it some more, spoke to people in the Tavern, and decided I didn't know.
@wim: by the sounds of it Jon was more grumpy than his usual self last night.
As such your action was perhaps read with more adversity than was applicable here.
We are trying to build tools and a community to handle duplicates better, and to make the unwritten rules more explicit.
And mistakes can always happen; I hope you stick around, find more dupes, and let us know about them too.
so we can add them to the growing body of the canon. :-)
is grabbing some lunch now, rbrb!
wim
wim
stack is great I have a very short attention span for the meta and chat though
I have been asking and answering python questions for more than 3 years and still the etiquette is not obvious to me
Still you might find the canon useful, we're putting together links that people can use to find commonly closed questions. Eventually the canon itself will have tags and a search bar etc.
wim
wim
12:57
it must be near impossible for completely new members
@wim It's usually explained in comments/changes made
I've added a card to our Trello as per your suggestions @wim.
We'll put a section explaining why we close the way we do (as Martijn explained)
Quick question guys - someone has done ye olde "here's a link" that has since 404'ed
What's the generally accepted convention for fixing it?
@IntrepidBrit you mean in an answer? Try to find the content elsewhere and if you can (and are feeling up to it) try to add enough of the content into the question through an edit such that even if it 404s again then people can still gain some knowledge from it.
wim
wim
a good idea but how will that have visibility for new members coming from stackoverflow?
13:02
Well, I need the information myself so if I'm going to do the work, everyone else might as well benefit from it
Well it will have visibility for anyone that views the canon pages at least. Unfortunately we can't force users to read sopython.com. And it'll at least give us a place where we can say "this is why we've done this" should anyone else ask.
wim
wim
k
I think if you did away with all this cabbage stuff it will seem less cliquey and more open
i mean not do away with it, but reduce the visibility and the focus of that trivial stuff
I like it. I think it shows that everything isn't "all business"
wim
wim
you guys will have your work cut out for you , there is more and more crap questions as python and SO gets so popular these days
it's pretty rare to see a really good question worth starring these days :(
@IntrepidBrit I keep on meaning to try to estimate how much of the conversation in this room is "on-topic" (i.e. to do with Python) or off.
13:06
@Ffisegydd 1% Python, 99% pure nonsense ;)
Yus! Got a +2 for editing xD
I just want to say, the customs we establish in chat or on SOPython shouldn't be considered "official" etiquette. A user should be able to learn 100% of the rules of SO just by reading the FAQ and Meta.
@Ffisegydd I can't decide if it's bad form to edit his answer to reflect some additional information to make a better answer? Or if I should just post my own answer.
If the "chat clique" does want to influence site policy, we go on Meta and make a proposal
@Ffisegydd Currently, I've left him a comment suggesting that he should edit his answer to make use of some information. Left it up to him for the time being
@IntrepidBrit how old is the answer/active is the user?
13:19
@Ffisegydd Probably older and more regular than me :)
Link to the answer?
6
A: How do you get the current battery level in .NET CF 3.5?

NoldorinI think you want to use the Microsoft.WindowsMobile.Status namepsace (specifically the SystemState class. using Microsoft.WindowsMobile.Status; ... BatteryLevel batteryLevel = SystemState.PowerBatteryStrength; BatteryState batteryState = SystemState.PowerBatteryState; See this post for the f...

@IntrepidBrit he was last seen 14 hours ago and looks fairly active. Leave it up to him. If he decides not to...dunno.
@Ffisegydd nods
Though he hasn't answered questions in 18 months...
Eh. Leave it and see.
13:22
Aye, makes sense. Thanks again
@vaultah interesting read
if you had to make a choice between .Net and Java which would you choose and why?
None is not a valid answer
@user3620828 Java, personally.
@Iplodman Why?
13:34
It's what I know most of.
And you can make Minecraft mods and Android stuff with it.
.Net. That's my day job.
@user3620828 I would choose 'None', but if I was forced to pick, I'd go for java. I like a bit of cross-platform
C# has a rather neat list-comprehension kind of thing, called "Linq"
@Kevin Really? I didn't know you were a .Net dev
Yes
13:36
@user3620828 That was probably a mistake admitting that (is currently trying to beat .NET into submission)
How hard are Java and .Net compared to Python
@user3620828 Quite a bit, I think. It depends on your coding knowledge already.
I'd choose java.
I used `random.choice(['.net', 'java'])` to decide.
Ahaha xD
I'd choose Java too cos I'm a Linux guy!
wim
wim
13:40
`I just want to say, the customs we establish in chat or on SOPython shouldn't be considered "official" etiquette. A user should be able to learn 100% of the rules of SO just by reading the FAQ and Meta.`

+1 to that. I might even go further and say wading into meta should not be necessary, only reading the excellent SO help centre http://stackoverflow.com/help
Java and .Net can be more confusing for beginners, since the first thing they need to write is public static void main(string[] args){, but they won't learn what any of that means until the next semester.
Once you get past the "magic invocations" like that, though, it's not much harder. Programming is programming.
@Kevin I too had the same problem when I tried them. Then I quit!
@Kevin I find if you come from a Linux background, then you don't need to ignore the magic invocations. For someone who's "used" to working with bash, it would make perfect sense :)
@Kevin Well, after it's been explained to them
As far as i know Bash doesn't have that stuff @IntrepidBrit
(devil's advocate: Python has magic invocations too. Ever use if __name__ == "__main__":?)
13:46
@Kevin But that isn't required.
This is true.
I've only just started using that, and the meaning is pretty obvious anyway.
A simple explanation would do for it:
> If the file name is __main__ it will execute the code!
Where as with public static void main(string[] args) {:
But if I have a filename called 'test.py' it'll execute :P
@Ffisegydd Really? Then my understanding is completely wrong xD
When you run a module via the interpreter (say python test.py) then it sets a special variable such that __name__ = '__main__'
13:49
"this is a function visible to other scopes, which can be called without creating an instance of this class, which doesn't return anything, which puts the command line arguments in the args list"... A bit of a mouthful there
@Kevin Quite.
@user3620828 Nah, but the "magic" invocation is to do with passing parameters. Which is very much associated with bash
If you were to import the same module (import test) then it sets __name__ = 'test'
And you may need some additional breaths to explain what "visible" and "scope" and "instance" and "class" are, remembering that you haven't even gone over if and while yet
@Iplodman so what the if __name__ == '__main__' does is say "Is this being ran as a program? If so, run this extra code. If it's being imported we don't want to run it though."
663
Q: What does `if __name__ == "__main__":` do?

DevotedWhat does the if __name__ == "__main__": do? # Threading example import time, thread def myfunction(string, sleeptime, lock, *args): while 1: lock.acquire() time.sleep(sleeptime) lock.release() time.sleep(sleeptime) if __name__ == "__main__": lock = threa...

13:51
@Ffisegydd OOOOH, that makes sense.
off the current topic: after much bug hunting today, I discovered that, for instances of my custom class, a == b and a != b can both return True.
@Kevin you have programmed a qubit?
You'd think that __neq__ would automatically get defined as return not __eq__(self, other), but nooooo
wim
wim
that might cause weird stuff with inheritance
@Kevin I think there's a decorator that will do that for you.
Doesn't look like __ne__ is a "rich comparison operator", so total_ordering doesn't cover it. Still useful for other things, though, thanks :-)
heya @Al.Sal
cbg jon and all
how is everyone's week?
cbg @Al.Sal, not going too badly.
Got a meeting at 4 so just preparing things.
how often do you clean your keyboards?
cabbage everyone
13:59
@PeterVaro ... I've never cleaned my keyboard...

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