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22:00
@CatPlusPlus or @thecoshman, do I need to sign up / be invited / ?? to get to use the build bot?
@melak47 Set up the trigger as described on BB wiki.
I'll deal with configuration later.
@LucDanton It was presented at an Ubuntu conference, so exaggerating the wonders of ubuntu (at least a little) would probably be almost required for the talk to get accepted at all.
@JerryCoffin No, the article is exaggerated. The actual presentation was (reportedly of course) more tame, according to those commentators.
Which is to say that the exaggeration of the talk itself should be elsewhere :)
@LucDanton Oh, now I understand.
@CatPlusPlus hmm, I forked cosh's fork
22:07
Doesn't matter.
It's dumb, but doesn't matter.
@R.MartinhoFernandes Guten Abend!
Follow instructions dammit
Also nobody's posting.
I've been doing some research on Ron Maimon. Seems he did attend the Physics department at Harvard and was a co-researcher for a couple of papers. He says he has no formal education, but I don't believe it.
Do you think he means 'no formal credentials'?
he told me to fork his fork for now :P
I suppose I could just as well work on the win32 abstraction in my own fork of master, though...
22:09
@LucDanton That could be.
@melak47 I forked fork's std::cosh.
Nah, it really doesn't matter as long as you can send pull reqs to master.
If not, then welp, recreate the fork.
so, is build bot building things and I just don't see it?
No, it doesn't currently.
a) I need to add your fork b) I need to fix config.
ah, ok.
22:11
Lazy robots, not doing our stuff.
Buildbot is not very critical right now, especially that almost nothing is happening.
We don't have any slaves except Linux anyway.
oh. so no windows builds for me? :p
Ell
Ell
Do you need a windows slave set up?
I have an EC2 instance on Windows Server 2008
I have another box lying around, but I don't know about leaving it on 24/7...power bill and all
user142019
22:20
I have curry-flavoured soup.
@Zoidberg'-- Meet @daknok, maybe
user142019
@sehe you have no idea.
@Zoidberg'-- Aha. That explains. LOL
user142019
:P
Who uses a Intel Mac for C++ development?
22:22
Anyways, you didn't hide long from me
user142019
@DiscreteGenius I do.
@Zoidberg'-- I'm sorry
user142019
@MooingDuck for what?
@Zoidberg'-- using mac
22:24
@MooingDuck What's wrong with Mac? 30 seconds, Go :)
user142019
@MooingDuck I enjoy it, thank you.
@DiscreteGenius crashes all the freaking time
@DiscreteGenius wont play games without crashing
@DiscreteGenius built in IDE is garbage
user142019
@MooingDuck mine crashed once in four years.
user142019
@MooingDuck Minecraft crashes rarely.
@DiscreteGenius incredibly expensive
user142019
22:25
@MooingDuck OS X has no built-in IDE.
@Zoidberg'-- not customizable
@Zoidberg'-- whatever, XCode.
user142019
@MooingDuck it’s a brand, like Nike, what do you expect?
@Zoidberg'-- mine "bluescreened" several times a day
Hello all :)
user142019
lolwat
22:25
@MooingDuck Never had my Mac crash; Xcode seems pretty damn awesome.
@Code_Analysis @zenmumbler I wouldn't worry to much about it. I bet she'll have a reputation soon enough!
Oh, Andrey responded to my quip. I wonder whether he'll 'get' my viciously humorous reply :>
@Zoidberg'-- what? "it's expensive" doesn't count as a bad thing if it's a brand? It's still expensive!
user142019
Mine crashed once due to a crappy kernel extension from Hamachi.
My two complaints with apple is that they are overpriced and don't follow my using style
user142019
@MooingDuck I didn’t say it isn’t expensive.
22:26
@DiscreteGenius Trying to point out everything wrong with OS/X in 30 seconds is like trying to run around the world, on foot, (including oceans) in 10 seconds.
@Zoidberg'-- Don't. Hamachi
@MooingDuck Expensive it is! Too dang expensive.
@DiscreteGenius WoW caused it to crash left and right
user142019
Just that it’s no wonder it’s expensive.
???
22:27
@MooingDuck WoW and SC2 play problem free on mine.
Are you seriously arguing about OSX
@DiscreteGenius I gave up and installed Windows
It's expensive because stupid consumers Apple-consumers will buy it
@CatPlusPlus yes
The most terrible OS ever made
user142019
22:27
is Windows.
Not really no
user142019
Yes really yes
I'll take Windows over OSX any day.
I'll take DOS over OSX any day.
I think OSX had Windows beat for a long time, but with Windows 7 and now 8, we'll see!
user142019
I’ll take anything over Windows any day.
22:28
@CatPlusPlus Why?
user142019
@Pubby Because he hates Apple.
I disagree. OSX is a marvelous OS
@CatPlusPlus That would be for purely ideological reasons, right?
Is there anyone here who has used all 3 big OS for extended periods of time and can actually compare them?
@Zoidberg'-- Not even in the ballpark. DEC RSTS/11, Control Data NOS, IBM VM/CMS, and a plethora make all of the above seem heavenly by comparison.
22:29
Because it has horrible UI.
@Pubby me
Global menu ahahahaha is retarded, window buttons are not functioning predictably, they use non-standard keyboard layouts.
@Pubby I've used Windows for nearly my entire life until about 3 years ago when I switched to OSX full time. I love OSX now.
@bamboon And your opinion is?
user142019
@CatPlusPlus Not really.
22:30
@CatPlusPlus Never had any of those problems. Perhaps you're just bad.
@DiscreteGenius Never used Linux?
Shortcuts are weird, too. Home/End/PgUp/PgDown/Enter/Backspace, everything works differently than on every other platform.
user142019
Linux has only terrible GUIs.
@Pubby Desktop OSs are all equally cool/crap. You can get them all crashed if you want. For developing, I prefer Mac OSX or Linux Distro
Is Windows 8 Pro with the upgrade price of $40?
22:31
All GUIs are terrible ;)
user142019
Apple’s aren’t.
@EtiennedeMartel Tell me one good thing about global menu
Ell
Ell
@EtiennedeMartel oh my gosh. that is totally correct. I think cat is just bad
@Pubby Not on a full time basis. I've played with Ubuntu about 7 years ago, and again recently. It was quite impressive as well both times I used it.
(Also Apple policies are shitty as well, so yeah)
Fuck closed platforms
22:31
@Pubby I've used Windows since 1.03, MacOS since about 6.0 and Linux off and on since 0.something. For work, Windows is clearly the best for me right now. Other than a few specific things I need that don't work on Wine and don't have direct analogs on Linux, it would be a fairly close second. OS/X is a distant third at best.
@Zoidberg'-- Apple GUIS seem to be designed to be intuitive rather than ergonomic
@Zoidberg'-- Are you an Apple Fanboy?
Crosscompiling to OSX is a pain in the ass
@CatPlusPlus It's always at the top of the screen, so it has "infinite height" for the purpose of cursor stuff.
I'll have to find that article again. But in short, it's easier to click on stuff in that menu.
Hahahahaha no.
I want menu on the fucking window.
22:32
What? Why?
user142019
@JerryCoffin You're probably the most experienced here!
I don't look at the top of the screen for menu.
No, you hit hotkeys anyway.
I'm looking at the window. I want to keep looking at the window.
22:33
@Pubby A nice, polite, way of saying "older than dirt." :-)
Lack of reliable maximised window mode is shitty too (and no, that silly fullscreen is bad, because it hides the fucking menu christ).
user142019
I never maximize windows.
user142019
Some apps run full-screen.
user142019
I don’t need a full-screen editor.
22:34
@EtiennedeMartel Oh no HCI what do I do
user142019
Or a full-screen terminal.
@Zoidberg'-- Oh but I do.
Anyway, what you're saying is "it's different so it sucks".
@Zoidberg'-- mac is so awesome. But don't maximize because some mac programs can't do that.
Yup.
Very.
Yes.
22:35
You really like your comfort zone, eh?
Anybody here running Windows 8?
Fullscreen is the best
user142019
@MooingDuck no, I don’t maximize because I don’t need giant windows full of nothing.
They break standard practices for no good reason, so yes
@Zoidberg'-- And so you get a giant screen full of nothing
22:35
@CatPlusPlus What do you mean, "standard"? There's no fucking standard in UI.
I've seen many people scratching their heads at OSX
user142019
@Pubby no, I get a giant screen with a few windows I can see without the need to switch between them all the time.
Sure, it's different from Windows, of course they're gonna need some time to learn.
Windows and Linux somehow manages to not screw things up
No, they're fucking identical.
22:36
I don't give a fuck about learning retarded ideas from Apple thanks
I don't find them useful.
user142019
Then don’t complain.
It has no practical value.
Ell
Ell
I like linux mint's desktop
I don't need to pay 2x to be locked into a proprietary system.
Fuck closed platforms forever.
22:37
haters gonna hate
fanboys gonna fanboy
user142019
Oh Windows is completely open-source it’s not closed at all.
@Chimera That's a valid argument. But saying "the UI sucks" when you mean "it's different and I don't want to spend time learning it" isn't.
I like that the counterargument to "it's dumb" is "IT'S DIFFERENT".
Windows seems more open than Mac
It's not intuitive.
22:37
@EtiennedeMartel Agreed, but I never said the UI sucks.
It's not dumb. It works perfectly well for its intended audience.
You don't look for menu at the top of the screen.
You just. don't.
@Chimera You didn't, but @CatPlusPlus did.
user142019
OS X at least has an open-source kernel.
@CatPlusPlus That's a terrible argument
22:38
@EtiennedeMartel Oh ok. :-)
@Pubby What.
@CatPlusPlus I do. I was fucking raised on Macs. Don't just act like you speak for everybody.
Ell
Ell
@CatPlusPlus you do? That seems logical
user142019
And 90% of all libraries are open-source in OS X.
Ell
Ell
22:38
you don't read bottom to top
user142019
And it contains many components from BSD.
macports is very cool
GIF GIF GIF
user142019
Text editor is open source, sticky notes is open-source.
Going on Windows, for me, was difficult at first. I learned. And now I appreciate both.
22:39
@Zoidberg'-- IN a few sentences why do you prefer OSX over any other OS?
user142019
@Pubby I don’t GIF a fuck.
And I don't like any ideas about OSX
So there's that.
user142019
@Chimera OS X is a UNIX system with a decent user interface.
@Chimera It's beautiful, intuitive, and more stable.
@DiscreteGenius Stability is relative. Ever used Xcode? That thing crashes like fuck.
user142019
22:39
Xcode never crashes here.
user142019
Only the beta versions do.
Intuitivity is as well. Nothing is really intuitive, especially when we're talking about moving cursors around, which isn't really natural.
@Zoidberg'-- I don't believe it's really much different from other interfaces that can be customized.
@EtiennedeMartel I use Xcode everyday. Never had it crash, not even once.
@Zoidberg'-- Maybe it's because I was using Xcode 4 on Snow Leopard.
But if I have to shell out 30$ to get a stable thing, then fuck that shit.
user142019
22:40
ohlol
Xcode is craaaaap.
@DiscreteGenius More stable than what? I'd wager that a recent Linux/BSD/Windows OS is just as stable as a recent OSX.
It does look good though.
user142019
You can pirate Mountain Lion. :P
22:41
I'm on Win7 now. Developing on OS X is not fun. Unlike Windows.
@Chimera I have a PC and a Mac; my wife has a PC laptop (she'd love a Mac if the price was right). To the point though, her PC and my PC have more problems than my Mac.
@DiscreteGenius That's anecdotal. I've got a few PC's and a laptop. All run Linux and Windows.. And they don't have issues...
@DiscreteGenius My dad reports the same issues. He's on Mac, his girlfriend is on PC, and she has many more problems than him. I don't have any issues with my PC, though.
My guess: if you're a power user, you won't have any problem, no matter the platform.
user142019
If I got a PC as a present, the first thing I’d do is installing a UNIX-like system on it.
Noobs seem to get a harder time on PCs than on Macs, however.
22:43
I have problems with retarded platforms
@Chimera @EtiennedeMartel Overall I'd have to say that I'd rather have a bad ass PC than my Mac. Why? Because development on Windows seems like the right choice.
I don't know, maybe it's made for stupid people and works better for them
@CatPlusPlus No, you have problems with stuff that do not match your current ideology.
Good for that I guess
No, I have problems with shit that doesn't follow conventions established in the last 15 years.
Ell
Ell
@DeadMG what were your a level results?
22:44
@DiscreteGenius Ok. I can't say other way. I've never developed on OSX/
I have a PC and a Mac. I use the Mac (maybe) a third as much, and it still crashes at least three times as often as the PC. In the last 4 years, the PC has blue-screened only when 1) I accidentally adjusted the memory voltage wrong, and 2) I was debugging a kernel device driver.
@CatPlusPlus Well said. :)
Plus, closed platforms, I have problem with them, too.
@Chimera @EtiennedeMartel None of my PC's really have problems. I just find myself complaining more often when I'm using my PC than when I'm using my Mac.
6
A: In t'Hooft beable models, do measurements keep states classical?

G. 't HooftI think the correct answer is that such models are both quantum mechanical and classical, although this could be considered as a question of semantics. It is a fact that, as soon as you found a basis in your quantum system where the evolution is just a permutation, the "quantum probabilities" fo...

22:45
@CatPlusPlus You officially have lost the rights to whine about Stallman or Torvalds.
Whoah. This guy is a something. This here epic comment thread shows a little firework:
(makes me feel really dumb, as well)
(And yes, it's a closed platform, to develop for OSX reliably you need a Mac, to develop for iOS at all you need a Mac)
@EtiennedeMartel Ahahahahahaahahahah
(But that won't change a thing, you'll whine about that anyway)
If you can't see why closed platforms are bad, then yeah, we have nothing to talk about
I'm too busy solving problems to actually care about that.
22:46
@EtiennedeMartel He has a problem with being denied the right to whine, by the way
@EtiennedeMartel Do you honestly think either of them invented the idea of an open platform?
@EtiennedeMartel Libre software is not a prerequisite to an open platform. E.g. open standards are enough for that.
@JerryCoffin I don't.
@sehe Anyone would. It's pretty understandable.
I wonder if any other Windows IDEs can compile/debug with microsoft's compiler/debugger, but are less retarded than visual studio.
@EtiennedeMartel Okay, so what's your logic?
22:47
Qt Creator
@LucDanton I cleaned up my aliasing question. Feel free to let me know if something is wrong or oversimplified. (Or edit yourself if you want.)
How is VS retarded?
I don't like it, but I think it is decent
@sehe "attach to process" (wait 60 seconds). Can no longer disattach without killing the process.
@JerryCoffin Hahaha logic
@JerryCoffin There was none in that, I'm afraid.
22:48
@MooingDuck Really? odd
@sehe also intellisense failures over and over
@MooingDuck Don't use it. Problem solved?
@EtiennedeMartel Well, it's refreshing to hear somebody admit that anyway.
@sehe it's nice to have reminders on what members each class has
@JerryCoffin I have to admit, @CatPlusPlus is incredibly hard to bash. Damn.
22:49
@MooingDuck Install VA-X. Problem solved.
@sehe Agreed. The guy clearly appears to know his stuff.
Handwaving ain't bashing.
hey guys, I have a vc++ solution with filters that perfectly mimic the folder hierarchy they're under
@MooingDuck Really? I have header files for that. Mostly, I have completion enabled, but not intellisense (I know what to type, or what it looks like, but i'm to lazy to remember the exact spelling/type it all)
@StackedCrooked C++ doesn't have misaligned objects.
user142019
22:50
I don’t bash. I Z shell.
@JerryCoffin that made Visual Studio crawl. Never again
how can I add a "physical" folder hierarchy to my project?
@JerryCoffin VA/X really that good? I should try that once
when I drag&drop the folder to vc++, it gets flattened
@zneak Where, VS?
22:51
yes
@zneak This was a question recently. Lemme find it
@MooingDuck It does take a while opening a large project, no question about that. Haven't run into speed problems otherwise though.
@sehe I thought intellisence was the completion. In that case I just want completion.
@LucDanton Damn, I really suck at expressing something correctly.
@zneak i used to do that but it's unnecessary if the folders are in the project directory
22:51
@CatPlusPlus What I'm saying is this: I used OS X for most of my life, so most of the issues you raised are hard to understand for me.
@JerryCoffin We have massive solutions/projects at my work. Visual Studio is crazy slow. VA:X made it MUCH slower.
I get that.
@sehe IMO, without it, VS is next to unusable.
well it's a solution with thousands of file for a Very Big Project and I'd rather follow their conventions :/
@zneak you can click the "show all files" button in the solution view
22:52
that just flattens everything as far as I can see
(I get no folder view there)
@MooingDuck In vim, they are separate <grin/>
@JerryCoffin For C++? Agreeing
But they really don't follow conventions everyone else use.
user142019
IDEs are unusable anyway.
@MooingDuck If they're large enough, I don't find that particularly hard to believe. It definitely increases the memory usage.
@CatPlusPlus So when you say "it sucks" to mean "I don't like it", well, I get a bit ticked off.
user142019
22:53
Visual Studio is terrible.
vs is seriously slow
user142019
No it’s very fast.
Hey, I like Visual Studio as well. So maybe I like horrible stuff.
user142019
But the UI is terrible.
@Zoidberg'-- I wish :(
22:53
I liked visual studio until now
3
Q: How to create a folder in Visual Studio C++ 2012

Number42I have started my first bigger project with Visual Studio 2012 in C++. I will structure my Source-files in folders, but I can not find where I can create real folders, like in the windows explorer. So here is my question. How can I create real folders in my project?

user142019
I have VS on my 2GHz 4GB machine and it runs fast as hell.
user142019
VS 2012.
^ explains why the feature is being 'hidden' and my pose problems
@Cheersandhth.-Alf A meaningless comment (as is Zoidberg's reply), at least IMO.
user142019
22:54
Except the startup-time, which is over five seconds.
@Zoidberg'-- try with a large solution. You'll see.
user142019
But besides that it’s not slow at all.
Everyone has different problems with Visual Studio. Me? I hate when it crashes or freezes for seemingly no reasons, although most of those problems seem to be linked to the XAML designer, which also sucks (but hey, those Blend licenses are not gonna sell themselves)
@Zoidberg'-- My startup time is ~120 seonds. Closing is ~600.
user142019
I just use TextMate and on Windows I use Sublime Text 2.
22:55
@sehe that doesn't tell me how to add an existing directory structure :/
@JerryCoffin what? i've used a zillion ide's. vs is seriously slow.
How slow is slow, how fast is fast, at doing what, and under what circumstances do you test? Without (at least) that much, "slow", "fast", etc., are all pretty meaningless.
@zneak since the solution "directories" has no correlation with harddrive directories, I don't think there's a way
@zneak I know. I just linked to it for reference. I think you should avoid it, for the reasons mentioned in the post
@JerryCoffin If I can click the close button, go pee, pack my stuff, and still be waiting when I made no changes, that's slow.
22:56
@MooingDuck Well, you could generate the XML to go inside the vcproj files?
we don't use VS to compile, and I don't have authority over the project structure
@sehe yeah, you could.
@JerryCoffin bull. a clear difference is enough. no need to quantify to milliseconds here. the freaking stupid beast uses tens of seconds just to start., then lags on loading project.
@zneak Then what do you use VS for?
write code?
debug code?
@zneak Use an editor?
is visual studio not enough of an editor?
should I find another debugger?
the only VS feature we don't use is its build process, that doesn't sound so bad to me
@Cheersandhth.-Alf Hmm...well, doing a quick check just now, it starts in about 2 seconds for me (and this is on a 6+ year-old machine). On the same machine, emacs takes about the same or a tad longer.
alright then
I suppose my best bet is to add it folder by folder?
22:59
@zneak or script it.

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