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4 hours later…
5:20 AM
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Q: Can we get [behind] the burnination of this tag?

cocomacThis is a discussion, not an invitation to burninate this tag The behind tag has 53 questions at the time of me posting this, so we need to follow the formal burnination process (And no, don't go and remove this tag from four questions to get it below the limit - this has been attempted before on...

 
 
2 hours later…
7:03 AM
@CodyGray For future burnination proposas that I do, is it ok with you if I take your "don’t break the burnination rules" mod note as this seems to be a recurring theme with my burnination discussions. I’d give you credit of course, but I wanted to ask for permission prior to using it as it is Moderator note meta.stackoverflow.com/revisions/418354/2
 
Yeah, I don't mind. You don't really have to give me credit, either, although you might want to, since you're not a moderator, and thus you giving a moderator note would be kinda weird. :-)
I don't know why it's such a big problem...
 
Yeah, I’d likely write something like "This reminder note is used with permission from Cody Gray” (or something similar). I do also wish it went without saying, but IMO it’s better to prominently give users a heads-up then to not do so and the mods then having to give out suspensions if users break the rules (that’s just my current viewpoint, though, not consensus). Although I fully agree that a giant warning at the top of my posts is… not exactly ideal
 
You already put a prominent warning on top of your posts, it's just not worded as sternly as mine was (since mine was reactionary, in that case, not pre-emptive).
 
7:31 AM
^ is that link NSFW? Or is it just about girls escorting people around town. Like a tourist agency or something.
 
@VLAZ screenshot searches for "escorts". I'm leaning towards disguised spam
 
The linked page is definitely NSFW. I've removed it and added a comment. Not clear whether the post is spam.
 
 
1 hour later…
9:07 AM
@SunderamDubey er, what?
 
@tripleee Ah sorry, it is because I copied the Graveyard room link before, maybe the question link was not copied.
Anyway the question is closed.
 
9:22 AM
the site is down?
 
You can move it to dev/null.
@blackgreen No it is working.
 
@blackgreen It was down for a short time but now working again
 
mmm then my internet connection is having some hiccups
it's a good excuse to go do some actual work for my employer
 
9:37 AM
There was a "down for maintenance" blip a wee while ago.
Does this qualify as a ChatGPT-generated answer? I'm not sure, but it seems that the OP has used the AI to help solve their problem, then written their own code. At least, that's one way of interpreting it.
 
Ya so I think it is fine since they provided the answer with their own language, furthermore they also answered their own question.
 
I tend to agree with your first point; however, the fact that it is a self-answer is irrelevant to the ban on using ChatGPT content.
I think.
 
Ya you're right but the user is also new ;)
 
Being a new user is also irrelevant. :)
 
So maybe a mod. would tell.
 
9:52 AM
Isn't the problem with ChatGPT that it generates gibberish while in that case the result was tested and seems to work?
 
Ya that's what they stated in the answer, it is working.
So I don't think any problem here, if they would not have mentioned ChatGPT so it would have become impossible to figure out that the answer is AI generated.
 
@JeanneDark I tend to agree with this point of view.
... my one minor concern is that such posts may encourage others to use AI-generated code. Then, where do we draw the line between ChatGPT content and ChatGPT assisted content? In this case, it seems OK, but a bit more AI and a bit less human ... um?
 
@AdrianMole Shall we remove the line in the answer stating the answer is generated using ChatGPT?
 
I don't think we should; that is clearly part of the OP's answer.
 
@AdrianMole I don't think that was the problem or the concern. Rather that people use ChatGPT to post lots of useless, low-quality stuff that looks like sensible answers but isn't and is hard to moderate, while attracting upvotes. However, when someone uses ChatGPT to find an actual answer and posts the useful solution here, what's the problem?
 
10:01 AM
So that future readers or anybody would not see it directly in the answer.
 
@SunderamDubey That would make no sense (also that's not really what the answerer is stating)
 
All AI-generated content (and all usage of AI to generate content) is currently forbidden on SO, with no exceptions. There is no exception to allow the case where someone double-checks it manually and ensures that it is correct. While there may be such an exception made in the future, when the policy is revised to be permanent, that is not currently the case, and any post that was created using AI tools such as ChatGPT should be flagged for mod attention and will be removed once confirmed.
 
But that's not clear in this case. They just state that they arrived at the conclusion using ChatGPT, not that their answer post or the code therein was generated by ChatGPT.
 
@CodyGray I can't argue with that as the letter of the law but is it really the spirit? It strikes me as a tad harsh to delete such a post, especially if it comes with an account suspension.
 
Seems consistent with the spirit to me. The spirit is not to allow any use of AI tools in the generation of content posted to Stack Overflow.
 
10:05 AM
I'm not going to argue with you here; I raised the post in here because of a doubt that I had; the discussion has been useful, to me, but I also hear what you are saying, in terms of the strict rule.
 
Regarding the "account suspension" issue, I don't think a mod would suspend for that. There's no impression of bad faith, so they'd just warn and delete the post.
 
Unless the mod had had a very bad day? ;-P
 
Plenty of people to suspend who deserve it, even if/when you're having a bad day. Like the person who just replied to a mod message carrying a warning with a middle-finger emoji (as the sole content of their reply).
 
Ya it's not good.
 
10:08 AM
{Note to self: Don't use emojis when replying to mod messages!}
 
Fun fact: their reply to the next mod message (which carried a suspension) was also a single emoji. In this case, a "rolling on the floor laughing" emoji. I'm at least glad they're enjoying their suspension.
 
Isn't it great when everyone is happy about the outcome of a moderator action?
 
Could be greater if the suspension was for 100 years.
 
> Please remember that Stack Overflow is not your favourite Python forum…
It's my favourite Python forum!
 
dur
11:28 AM
I hope your are not so angry, but I have a little off-topic question: Is there any rule against users, which opens a new account every week? I wouldn't mind, but this user seems to be also a help vampire (didn't know the phrase before).
 
@dur Multiple accounts are generally fine, as long as they are not voting on each other. I don't know if there is specific guidance on a large number of them though
 
dur
@halfer Ok, thank you. Then I will live with it.
 
@dur If there is enough evidence of a user constantly creating new accounts to evade question asking limits, then that would be worth collecting into a flag.
The rule of thumb is that a sockpuppet should not enable the person to do things on the platform that they would otherwise not be able to do.
 
dur
@JeanneDark Ok, thank you. The user isn't violating these rules. He/she gets a lot of downvotes and closed questions and then he/she opens a new account. I would say at least the third in the last 2-3 weeks.
 
11:40 AM
@dur Sounds like they may be trying to circumvent a posting ban
 
dur
@JeanneDark Maybe, but I think, he/she made too much users angry and he/she will disguise it by using another name/account.
 
11:53 AM
We found Guybrush
 
Morning
 
@dur how do you know it’s the same person across accounts instead of different users asking questions on similar subjects in similar ways?
 
@JamesRisner Some people really show their colors, so that raises suspicion. Moderator tools and CM escalation do the rest. :)
 
12:10 PM
@AdrianMole According to Hugging Face, the chance that this post was generated by OpenAI is 99.65%
If that’s relevant
I mod flagged it just now.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:21 PM
Not sure why that was closed. An R/A flag seems more than appropriate
 
dur
@JamesRisner I'm not sure, but his/her comments are very similar and his/her tone is also very similar.
 
@JeanneDark Threw in a R/A. You're right.
 
1:39 PM
I got a notice from a pizza app celebrating Pi day. "The reasons to order are infinite!". I immediately thought "So it's irrational to order pizza today?"
4
 
@Machavity At least it's not a complex operation.
 
mmmmmm, pi
Lo, Bob, you got pie?
 
It's scary to think that reference is 21 years old. It's outlived the Flash medium as well
 
2:12 PM
@Machavity I try not to think of the age :-/
 
@aynber Cowboy Bebop is even older :/
 
@Machavity mmm, Cowboy Bebop
I love the holy trinity of space westerns
 
@Machavity stop making me feel old
 
although personally Outlaw Star ranks above Bebop
I enjoy both more than Trigun though
 
I haven't watched Hulu's reboot of Trigun yet
And Bleach seems determined to redeem itself with Thousand Year Blood War. Virtually filler-free (from a series that got filler oh-so-very wrong)
 
2:28 PM
Is that out yet?
I liked Bleach, but seriously, how many seasons of filler did we need?
 
@Machavity is there a right way to do filler?
 
Is this NAA or is that link malicious?
 
huh, didn't realize Trigun Stampede was already out. I'll have to check it out
 
@TylerH Not exactly, but it makes myriad Naruto fillers look good. At least their filler sometimes related to the plot. Main arc! whole season of filler Main arc! Uhm... another whole season of filler
 
@Adriaan I don't want to open that link so I just gave it a delete vote
 
2:34 PM
@Adriaan Looked more sus after seeing their other post. User removed. I just deleted them to prevent them from being audits
 
2:45 PM
@Machavity I felt like the chimera ant season of hunter x hunter was all filler
wouldn't mind doing away with it
 
It kinda was (meandered a lot) but the main arc had reached a stopping point and when the head of the Hunter Assoc stepped in it got back on track
What annoyed me more was that Netflix only managed to get 5 seasons and the conclusion of that arc was S6
 
I think they have it on there
 
And it would have been better if they'd circled back to Phantom Troupe and given a proper end to that
 
with Gon at the top of that tree?
 
Yeah, netflix has it now... 2+ years after they added the first 5
 
2:49 PM
I was happy to see the chairman active in the plot and there were certainly cool moments like seeing his abilities, but it seemed like the avg power bump of everyone was like 20x what it was so now everyone is way strong including the expected enemy level so everything after this is gonna be... lame
well, everyone except Gon, who got super strong for 30 seconds and then is back to his old self (which no one else in the show even got to see. Come on, why couldn't Hisoka see that)
But yeah, the phantom troupe was super cool, and I want them to return to that. They sort of hinted at it with "where the heck is kurapica" and showing him in that dark room, but then nothing else
 
> Sorry I am not going to ask a brand new question for the same Issue. What you're asking is ridiculous...
 
@JeanneDark I mean on the face of it this sounds like the right response...
we don't want people asking dupes
 
That's from the author of a question posted as an answer
 
oh, well that's... less good
 
3:21 PM
 
3:58 PM
sigh, Firefox 111 drops and still no :has() support
 
 
1 hour later…
5:21 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
7:38 PM
 
 
1 hour later…
9:07 PM
@dur yes, please flag that sort of thing. Preferably with links to past accounts (or questions if the accounts are deleted - especially important if the accounts are deleted)
@NathanOliver A question you voted to close is being discussed on meta for other reasons.
 
@RyanM Oh, wow, That was a little excessive to get delete voted. The roomba would have cleaned it up if the OP was unresponsive. That said, the Q should remain closed but it is a dupe so I can find you a dupe target if we want to change the close reason.
 
@NathanOliver happy to, just let me know. A couple links are mentioned in the comments but I didn't look.
 
@RyanM This is the closest I can find. TY.
afk
 
^ bizarre edit. Moving a line of "f" from one place to the bottom. And the lines are of different length...
 
9:50 PM
Here is my submission for today's low-quality screen grab.
 
10:30 PM
@AdrianMole Yes, it is harsh, but it's what we must do. The fundamental problem is that Stack Overflow just doesn't have the moderation resources (i.e. number of subject matter experts reviewing answers), by orders of magnitude, that would be needed to evaluate all AI generated content on the basis of "is this a correct answer". We just don't have the ability to do that with the volume of posts which we're continuing to get that are AI generated. Unlike other "poor quality"/incorrect answers, the AI generated ones require, on average, much more time and much more expertise in order to evaluate them by a "good/correct" metric, and they confuse a lot of people who are not subject matter experts.
6
What we do, barely, have the resources for is to determine "is this post AI generated", we just don't have the resources to go beyond that. Thus, we must make the criteria be that all AI generated content isn't permitted. We must not accept any "good" uses of AI generation, because we can't weed out the bad uses (many of whom will lie and claim that their use is whatever "good" uses we might permit, because people are just that way).
We had a very concrete example of this where the developers of/advocates for an AI text generation service were posting AI generated answers where they initially claimed that the answers were all vetted and correct, but it was clear upon further examination that the answers were just more bull and were definitely not checked/vetted.
Are there people/tasks associated with posting on SO which might benefit from using AI generative technology, yes. Unfortunately, because 99.9% (darn close to a real percentage) of the use of the technology is, at this time, something that we definitely don't want (and would, ultimately, destroy SO if permitted), and because we just don't have the resources to weed out that 99.9% from the 0.1% of use that would be reasonable, our only real choice is to not allow it at all.
2
@dur That definitely sounds like they are violating the rules. It sounds like they would have a question ban and not be able to post questions, yet they create new accounts in order to do so. If you feel that's what's going on, then please raise an "in need of moderator intervention" flag and explain.
 

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