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00:11
@jmoerdyk If you feel it's a pattern or warrants follow up feel free to flag it providing whatever rationale/evidence you have. I would be surprised if a flag of that nature were declined even if we don't take any additional actions. Of course, you don't have to flag things like that if you believe it to be adequately handled. That said, patterns are often hard to spot at our scale so flags are always helpful in that regard (even if it's just to note it on the account).
Alternatively/additionally, if it was a suggested edit that was incorrectly approved then you can also flag in that case and indicate that we should look at the reviewers or drop a message over in BSOR.
It was a direct edit. I just re-applied the code formatting, left a note for the editor that translating stuff for the OP is non-optimal and moved on.
 
2 hours later…
01:50
Those get abuse (vandalism) flags, right?
@KarlKnechtel correct
but on SO mods dont care what red flag it is
02:38
@Ethan which flags are "red", and how are users intended to know?
spam and R/A
and on your flags page they will appear as red instead of plain text
 
1 hour later…
 
1 hour later…
04:54
@jmoerdyk sometimes that happens when edits are done in parallel, it could have been the fact that the UI doesn't surface that well
 
1 hour later…
06:06
0
Q: Is this tag a [lab] experiment gone wrong?

cocomacThis is a discussion. DO NOT burninate this tag right now We have a lab tag. Here's its tag description: Lab is a simple test utility for node. Except... it isn't being used that way. I've seen it get used for Questions pertaining to labs at school (questions about homework/projects from schoo...

 
2 hours later…
08:30
@AdrianMole Given the edit, and the declined NAA flag, there was nothing keeping it in the LQA queue, and it was dequeued automatically.
@cigien The title doesn't fit the question. If the title were the question, then, no, that would be way too broad in scope. However, the question is about a specific error they're getting with that code, so it's not too broad.
@tink Such questions should be closed, which should address your concerns about "attracting flies". The only problem with closing them, in my mind, is that some people have this idea that closure leads inexorably to deletion, which is a harmful and unproductive mindset in general, but particularly harmful for highly-scored, useful, general-reference Q&A like that one. They are off-topic for SO by our current standards and should be closed, but they should not be deleted.
@JasonLiam It's not a link-only answer, it meets our minimum standard for an answer, it should not be flagged, and it should not instead be a comment. There is no need for a Meta discussion; it would only get marked as a duplicate of the canonical discussions on what the NAA flag means.
Per usual, if you think the answer is not helpful, then you should downvote it. Delete votes are not super-downvotes.
@RyanM How do other languages deal with that? This seems like a universal problem. Perhaps you are only insulated from it in other languages because they do performance-zapping things behind the scenes in order to solve these problems for you, things that you would be expected to decide how you want to handle and implement yourself depending on the specific situation in C++?
@Cristik Errr.... no? It's not a duplicate of the question linked in the question body, because the question explicitly says that that didn't solve their problem.
@RyanM There was more voting in the olden days, when the site was smaller and people actually had a chance of seeing each answer.
@AdrianMole Vandalism of a post is not equivalent to an expression of one's wish to have a post deleted. There is a feature that allows users to delete a post in every case that deletion should be allowed. Vandalism is always reverted, per policy. Vandalism is not deletion.
@AdrianMole Where's the "bizarre" part? It's obvious why the system thinks that's a good answer, and thus why it chose it as an audit. It's also obvious why people upvoted it: because it helped them to solve their problem (they retried, and it worked for them, too). In this very narrow sense, it's actually (obviously) a helpful answer. I agree it's not a good audit, because it's not really the type of thing we ideally want to train reviewers to look for, but it's certainly not "bizarre" or completely inappropriate as an audit.
Although... hmm. It got a downvote back on Feb 13. I thought the rules for audits were that posts that got at least one downvote didn't become audits. I guess that's something else they broke when they redesigned the review system most recently.
jps
jps
09:06
Strange, a question in Spanish which wasn't closed and even got an answer in Spanish, survived almost 2 years on the main site.
@jps I see your example, and I raise you this one, which lived on the site for 14 years, since 2009, until I deleted it back on February 21st of this year.
@SurajRao As a subject-matter expert there, I can confirm that it is a rant. It's complete nonsense that has nothing to do with the actual topic. I've mod-deleted it. (The problem isn't that it's opinion-based. An opinion-based answer is valid, here as always. The problem with that one isn't that it's based on an opinion; it's that it's based on nothing.)
jps
jps
@CodyGray written by a guy named Dickinson ;)
Indeed. Clearly, a mod found the user to be a troll and nuked the account some years back (I didn't check how long ago when I deleted the answer), but that answer remained standing. Inexplicably, it must have been upvoted.
@AdrianMole Even aside from the blanket ban on ChatGPT, a question like that should be closed as a typo: "someone/thing who doesn't know C++ wrote this 'code' for me; why doesn't it work?"
I don't think that answer would be NAA, because it actually does answer the question. It's just that the question shouldn't have been/be asked.
@AdrianMole But... you didn't raise a flag or do anything to inform a mod that it should be deleted.
@AdrianMole What about nested conditional operators? I do, occasionally, do those. :-)
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (question was self-deleted, so no longer eligible for a cv-pls)
@Catija We can keep that part, unless it's in-scope to once again allow closing questions as duplicates of questions that haven't received answers, in which case, we should definitely do that ASAP and then change the text.
@Catija No, that looks very good to me. The only change I'd make is "or" => "and/or". Well, I lied: I'd probably also put "that" between "broad" and "it".
Alternative:
> This question currently asks multiple different questions and/or is so broad that it can't be easily addressed in an answer. It should be edited to focus on one, specific problem.
I do agree with Makyen that this reason should be renamed (back) to "too broad", instead of "needs more focus". But I think either of these bits of descriptive guidance are good and address my/our concerns with the close reason.
@Ethan Ehhh... I dislike that advice. I think you should raise spam flags or rude/abusive flags correctly, even though the system treats them the same way. The fact that the system (currently) treats them the same way (mostly) is merely an implementation detail, and flaggers should not be expected to know implementation details.
The fact is that SO mods are generous enough to accept either type of red flag on a post that needs to be immediately nuked, but that doesn't mean that you should not try to raise the correct type of flag based on the content of the post itself.
@Cristik Where's the typo there? You're referring to the comments saying it's undefined behavior? Those comments are wrong. Even if they were correct, the question wouldn't be a typo. It would be a question about undefined behavior, which you might justifiably close as a dupe of a question about UB, but it doesn't make sense to close it as a typo.
09:49
@CodyGray Hmm. Clearly, I did do something, or maybe the mod who deleted it just came across it coincidentally. :)
@Cristik That's not a typo, either. It's a logic error. The person wrote the incorrect code. Such questions should be answered, not closed. If it's a duplicate (it very likely is), then find and propose one. (I briefly looked, but couldn't find one. However, I'm not familiar with the subject matter.)
@AdrianMole Discussed in chat isn't sufficient. I don't always read the transcript.
OK, I'll accept my insufficiency in this case.
@M-- How is that a typo or non-reproducible? Looks like someone answered it. There are no comments pointing out the typo or non-reproducibility.
3 messages moved to SOCVR /dev/null (invalid/unjustified close reasons; feel free to re-request with a valid reason and/or a valid defense)
@AdrianMole I mean, it really does matter. I feel like I say this a lot, but you really cannot rely on mods reading chat transcripts and digging into all the things that people post here. There's a reason why moderator flags exist, and it's not so that users can ignore them.
It's a very frustrating matter, because there are a lot of things (like, say, this recent example) that users definitely see, sometimes even comment on, but nobody ever flags them, resulting in mods not handling them and problems remaining live for years, sometimes decades.
In that particular case, I wasn't sure that a mod flag was warranted. I discussed it in here, where I was (sort of) convinced that it is against the rules ... but then I somehow forgot to raise the flag. (I will often raise such a flag after a suitably positive response to a question I raise in here.)
New question for next mod election: Do you read the whole transcript of every SO chat room? If the answer is no, candidate is disqualified.
09:55
For some chat-rooms, that would be paramount to torture.
"some"
Start with Natty's dedicated room.
If you only mod-flagged cases where you were absolutely sure that the mod flag was warranted, then you will probably miss a lot of stuff that should be mod-flagged.
Probably, the user(s) who saw that screenshotted answer weren't 100% sure that their NAA flag wouldn't be declined, so they didn't flag it. And what was the result? We had an erection lasting 14 years.
also probably worth a mod flag for the user name
ninja'd.
10:06
When a late answers reviewer chooses Delete, does nothing happen?
Well, something happened: A "deletion" vote appeared in the timeline.
When it's an actual "Delete", then a delete vote is cast and added to the answer. When it's "Recommend deletion", effectively nothing happens. That delete vote will be counted in, say, the LQA queue, if the post subsequently gets there.
It might make sense to automatically push it into the LQA queue
The fact that it would make sense isn't necessarily part of the thought process of the developers.
How silly. It's already been reviewed. What more would you want?
It's not called the Action Queue.
Or the Takin' Care of Business Queue (where, every 50th review, you are rick-rolled by the smooth stylings of Bachman Turner Overdrive).
10:10
It's the "add something to the timeline" queue?
But yeah. I do sometimes forget to also cast an NAA flag on NAAs that I come across in Late Answers. (I've not been doing many LA reviews, recently, for fear that my forgtefulness would upset Cody.)
Why do you fear upsetting Cody?
He clearly doesn't; look at that typo!
A sneaky way of upsetting you and make it seem like they don't want to
Heh. I also sometimes forteg about Cody's typophobia. :)
10:16
don't froget ranidaphobia
Nah, I don't mind frogs. I just hate bugs.
Anyway, concern for Cody isn't the actual reason I haven't been reviewing LA ... I've just been whacked-out in other queues, lately.
11:00
@CodyGray the typo was the fact OP assumed the loop would reach past the end of the input buffers
I assume you've replied to my cv-pls request for the C question
Was this question on meta wrongly marked as spam? I think it could be easily improved.
BTW, is there a way to find the message for which a reply was made? if the message is recent enough, it's highlighted, but if the message is older, or moved to graveyard, it's not that easy...
@Lino I think we're not allowed to moderate meta, in here.
@AdrianMole Oh ok, then I'll just raise a flag to have a moderator look at it. Nvm, it seems Dharman agreed that it wasn't spam
Feel free to do that ... but it looks (from the downvote count) likely that a moderator was the 'last red flag' that nuked it as spam.
11:09
I can't see any evidence that it was spam
"The Meta Moderator Wars" - Parts 6 - 8?
I also do not see claims of plagiarism to be true. The comments were borderline rude.
@CodyGray I assume this is in reply to the php question, agreed that a duplicate might've been a better resolution, however I do think the question should be closed, we can't handle virtually any variation of code that generates pagination urls, also we're not a debugging service. the OP was helped in the comments, so the community is not unwelcoming, and I don't see a value in keeping the post
11:34
So this question was edited to no longer be specifically about jQuery (with the argument that you don't need jQuery for this). But now there are answerers complaining that the question "changed". Should the edit be reverted?
@E_net4 Where are the complaints? Or were they NLN-ed?
I edited them out of an answer. But the author may be stubborn.
Ah, I see.
In any case, I suspect that the problem is mostly that the complaint is unwarranted. There are much better reasons for the answer to be receiving downvotes.
I mean...the question asked as jQuery doesn't make sense. You cannot refresh a page with jQuery. You can only do it with JS. At best you can wrap the operation in jQuery but that hardly makes it a jQuery solution.
11:44
Is this one of those mod-deleted "spam" answers that should not be used as audits? In this case, the comment was visible in the audit; that, together with the user account being deleted, madde it quite obvious, though.
There are a couple of solutions which are trying to stretch "refresh" by making an AJAX request with jQuery and using the result to replace the content of the current page. Or use animations when changing the content.
@VLAZ Hence my concern. Generally speaking, a change in such a fashion would be a conflict of intent. But at this point, it's already popular and even protected.
I only looked at the first page of answers though. And most were exactly the same. I am not sure why somebody felt the need to tell me that location.refresh(true) works.In the year of our lord 2021, after that has been answered ten other of our lord's years ago.
@AdrianMole so? Mission accomplished? You noticed taht it probably was spammy, so you acted correctly. That's what audits are for, are they not?
I saw the answer. It turns out, it's the one I referred to when I said it stretches the word "refresh".
11:48
@Lino But I'm notoriously good at spotting audits. :) There have been issues raised by others about some mod-deleted spam posts being used as audits, because it's not always clear that they are spam. For example, posts where they were only identified as spam due to other, similar stuff from the same account.
FWIW, I think the question is fine as it is about JS. And the answer is "fine" albeit I am not a fan of the interpretation of "refresh" it uses but it's still a valid answer to the current question.
@VLAZ I agree. I suppose that the complaint was the main problem. I'll flag the answer if it comes back again.
 
1 hour later…
@HenryEcker Is it better to choose "Looks ok" instead, so that the post may at least attract attention in the bad reviews room? ;)
Make sure you also complete the entire quota with an average time between reviews of no more than 3 seconds /s
Sounds challenging but I will try ;)
/In serious, I'd recommend flagging then recommending deletion. That way the review is correct and the flag can get the post handled. Though I agree it would be great if the expected behaviour was functioning there.
14:25
Answers answering a question in a completely different and unrelated language than what the question asks for isn't flaggable right? Just a DV for "not useful"
Not quite a popular opinion but - they might be OK. Or not. There isn't a single answer to them them all. I'm quite happy to see algorithmic answers solved in a different languages. As long as they are straight forward to translated and/or follow. But, say "how do I print something to the console" tagged Java but answered in C# isn't useful.
Make a judgement call between these extremes. But overall, it's not a flag material.
@VLAZ this was more in the second category; the first sentence of the answer was a useful strategy-start, the rest was heavily reliant on black box libraries of the other language. I left a comment, OP self-deleted already
Can a RO remove this request please?
^ Is that request legal in this room, BTW? I felt that as I had mistakenly recruited CVs in here, I should act similarly to undo the error.
14:41
@Adriaan "the rest was heavily reliant on black box libraries of the other language" then I agree it wasn't useful. "How do I do <this algorithm> in C++" and an answer of "Use this Ruby library" solves nothing. Implementing the algorithm in Ruby (without using some uncommon and possibly surprising features) is not going to be much different from just implementing it in pseudocode, though.
@AdrianMole Why shouldn't it?
@JeanneDark Don't know. But I guess I am 'involved' in a question if I voted to close it.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, per request
@AdrianMole But you're not requesting closure again
I'll need to re-read the room rules again, at some point. ;)
Anyway, the gold-hammerer did the job for us.
14:52
@AdrianMole The point of the leave closed button is to leave the question closed rather than reopen it.
If you want to point the user to another question that be relevant or helpful, that's what comments are for
Yes, but if a question gets three "Leave closed" reviews, all with the reason changed to "this is a duplicate" (or whatever), then the closed banner will say that it "is not unique and has been answered" but without any mention of where or what that duplicate is.
... which I feel is wrong.
15:26
@AdrianMole oh, the banner changes reasons based on the reopen queue reviews? that seems... not good
If the reason is changed, then the banner will show both the original and the new reason. The latter being something like, "This was reviewed for reopening by the community and left closed because ..."
Yeah that's not ideal but I still think just leaving a comment with a link is an easy enough workflow
I think just a simple "majority" is required to get that second reason but it may need to be unanimous or mod-forced. Not sure what happens if it gets three different, new leave closed reasons.
Would be good to see some data on how often that occurs
My own anecdotal evidence suggest that it is quite rare.
15:29
@AdrianMole how they system handles conflicting votes is something I wish they would prioritize fixing for the close banners
it changed in not a good way a while back and then with the overhaul it changed again, I think, but not in a 'fixed' way
This looks like it is the same user as the OP but with a new account, adding clarification to the question. I already flagged it as NAA but should we do more? (Like alerting a mod to help out with merging the accounts, or some such.)
You can probably flag. What's the worse that can happen?
I get flag banned due to falling below a 99.83% helpful ratio?
But that actually looks like a 100% copy of a comment made by the OP. I left my own comment. :)
Well, I was thinking that maybe the mods will make all your ale slightly warmer than it needs to be. Using their awesome cosmic powers. But your suggestion sounds bad, too.
And I may even lose the pretty green flag that Sam's script has awarded me. :(
15:45
A fate worse than slightly too warm ale.
16:00
@CodyGray - interesting thoughts ... so closed answers don't get indexed by search engines?
Closure doesn't prevent indexing. Source: I keep finding useless closed questions when searching...
Also, search engines don't actually have a custom handling for SE.
Nor does SE really want to prevent exposure of closed questions.
many times, you only find fairly freshly added questions which have not yet been flushed from the search engines
@VLAZ sadly
@TylerH Yes
16:33
Is this SQL answer significantly different from the much earlier one? To an outsider like me, the only difference I can see is that some minor details have been removed. (All I did was to add code fences, BTW.)
@AdrianMole no
Is it sufficiently similar to count as plagiarism?
the only difference appears to be they did not select the likes count which is the relevant thing OP is asking for
@AdrianMole I... guess? It can probably just be deleted though.
OK - I added a delete vote.
@AdrianMole IMO the question should be closed as a dupe anyway
16:52
@miken32 Yes I agree, it's a common question
Well, Machavity knows a wee bit about SQL (or so I hear) and he didn't like it. ;-P
@AdrianMole SELECT * FROM good_questions WHERE question = "that one" 0 results returned
Impressive stuff!
rene has a SEDE to bulk remove all the bad questions but the Devs scoffed at it and thought it was too powerful. Something about WHERE question = 'bad' not being valid syntax or something. I think they're trying to save the bad questions, tho #conspiracy
17:08
i have a search query that returns ~ 8500 bad questions
That sounds like a terrible query. Shouldn't that number be much higher? :P
it's specifically filtered such that there's nearly 0 chance that it has any false positives
surely there's a lot more out there, but this one is quite specific
> created:2007..2013 score:0 is:question answers:0 migrated:no [jquery]
the most recently active one was edited by TylerH, and i disagree with the dupe target
@Cristik The left-turn arrow character at the beginning of a chat message that is a reply is a link to the the message to which that one is replying. You can click on that link to open the transcript to show the replied-to message. The link continues to work even if the message is moved into another room. Obviously, showing the transcript and the replied-to message requires that you have read access to that room.
jps
jps
I can't judge if we really need , but at least it should be written correctly as "state-management". Could a mod here please correct this? (if possible)
17:27
@jps already exists. looks like a typo, which happened in the last half hour. Fixed.
jps
jps
ah, great, thanks :) stupid me didn't check if it exists already :(
@Machavity ahh yes, it should have been WHERE question_bad is true
np. That's something that's easy to do.
@KevinB eh?
oh, a comment, I thought you meant a closure
M--
M--
@CodyGray The code that OP provided runs with no issues (not reproducible). It creates a vector. What they have later as df <-c(df)does not correspond with the name of the vector which is sam2. The answer you mentioned simply takes that vector and puts it into a dataframe, while OP never used the data.frame syntax in their question (beside talking about it). It's not obvious whether they have the wrong lingo (just need a vector and refer to it as a dataframe, ...
17:36
@KevinB to be clear, the close vote on that one is a 'needs details/clarity' vote, not a duplicate vote
@Makyen wow, didn't now that, thanks!
M--
M--
... or they want a different syntax altogether). It is unclear, and I don't get any errors running their code.
@Cristik np. I'm glad I was able to help.
M--
M--
I re-requested this since it was archived, but I don't remember if I am allowed to do so or not. Please advise. cc:@TylerH @Makyen (since you are here)
@M-- that seems to be allowed: socvr.org/faq#GEfM-no-boom-no-dup
M--
M--
17:46
Thank you @rene
M--
M--
🙏
@M-- This wasn't archived. It was moved to /dev/null by @CodyGray in this move. I'd suggest addressing the comments in that movement message prior to re-requesting.
@M-- what was the reason your request ended in /dev/null? did you request to be binned, or was it for another reason?
what they say ^
17:51
@M-- → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null The statement "(invalid/unjustified close reasons; feel free to re-request with a valid reason and/or a valid defense)" in this move message needs to be addressed in some manner prior to reposting this request.
I'm not, currently, trying to step into the issue or adjudicate it. I'm just saying it isn't appropriate for us to allow the reposting of the request without at least something addressing the identified issues. If there's something which at least addresses them, then we can take a more detailed look.
18:07
@Makyen @M-- If I had to guess, the issue was 'one not likely to be helpful to future readers', although it's been argued that's only descriptive of 'typos' and not an entirely separate reason to use that close type. However, I don't know if Cody binned it because he followed that line of argument or if he simply disagreed that it was a typo... I'd have to leave that for him to clarify.
M--
M--
18:31
@Makyen Understood. I don't agree with @CodyGray on this and I added Unclear to the request reasons, but I'll wait for him to respond to what I said.
this question was edited to add code, is this now a valid MCVE? stackoverflow.com/questions/75594401/…
I am able to understand what this question says?
Presumably, you are unable to understand it. In which case, I agree.
jps
jps
Looks like they somehow intended to write a self-answered question, but failed in both important parts, the question and the answer part :(.
Maybe a bit of TLC and some 1-2-1 interaction with the OP could get that into shape. But, as it stands, I think it should be closed. (The Staging Ground could possibly help in cases like this.)
jps
jps
I wrote a comment to the OP
19:32
@jps that's correct good, I upvoted that :)
I edited the question but yes, they need to post an answer
19:50
Also, I would like to say something to 20k+ reputation users, who can cast delete votes, the question I shared above not a very good question, it is a very basic error of empty block, it will not benefit the community in any way and can be marked duplicate of almost n no. of questions.
@SunderamDubey you may post a here when the question is eligible
but not before
Hmm, will do later after 4 hours, bye.
@TylerH
 
1 hour later…
21:07
@VLAZ :'(
@TylerH indeed sigh
 
2 hours later…
22:59
Unclear or Typo or Simply Unuseful? stackoverflow.com/q/75594625/2943403
@mickmackusa Is there a duplicate? Difference between break and continue? If not, should there be?
23:37
@AdrianMole that's sufficiently informative. I'll go with that one.

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