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00:18
@IanCampbell as they should: such statements are a) noise that needs to be edited out; b) implicitly a plea for special treatment.
and c) reflective of an expectation that this is yet another discussion forum.
Certainly won't disagree with you. I just preferred to keep my personal opinion out of the recommendation.
fair enough
@M-- You may find you get better results with meta.stackoverflow.com. Although this still risks a meta effect bringing a higher volume of downvotes
M--
M--
00:47
@KarlKnechtel no, I don't think it needs that much attention, I just thought I may not be describing something correctly or not using the right words, otherwise it is fine (not a stellar question but fine)
 
2 hours later…
02:33
for my learning purposes, is this on-topic? and why or why not?
@starball Missing Link.
there are only 2 questions with those 2 tags so I have a 50/50 chance
When I'm given 2 options, I tend to get the right answer on the third attempt. :)
@Ethan yep it's that one. sorry :P and thanks Ethan!
@AdrianMole looks at usb
02:40
@AdrianMole you are also the one who scores 3rd in a 2-player game? 😄
lol
@starball It looks OK because as Cody♦ once remarked to me it's advice about using a programming tool.
ok. are there other sites where it could also fit? superuser?
(also asking for my learning purposes)
@starball The vim question? Looks like it is a fit for Super User.
Hmm. TIL: Selecting "Edit" on a known-good audit in LQA passes (I'm sure that fails, or used to, in other queues).
02:47
ok interesting. so the vim questoin fits here and on superuser. thanks for explaining and for looking at it!
@AdrianMole Edit will always pass an audit in almost every queue (currently at least, it works in FQ, FA, LA, LQA)
So I can just "robo-edit" everything and never have to worry about failing audits? xD
spam you would probably fail. Mabey?
a post with 6 spam flags
@AdrianMole For the most part, I believe so. You'll fail in Suggested edits with "approve and edit" and it won't work in close or reopen queue since edits can't complete the review task. I have no clue about triage
Good job I was only joking, then, eh?
02:51
gets lie detector
Well triage doesent have an edit option. The closet thing is community edit. And I'm not even sure what that does
Hey 3! That's somethin @AdrianMole can work with
@HenryEcker The Triage queue doesn't have "Edit" as an option.
:55789115 I think it went to H&I but that was depricated
Oh what do ya know, editing spam will fail an audit in LQA at least. That's good; definitely how it should work. But, for just "known bad" (not spam) and "known good" edit will work. Interestingly editing spam in FQQ will pass the audit. Seems like there's a lot of inconsistency in audits...
I called it
02:57
hmm... do internal chat links also fall under Point 7 of the FAQ?
Is this a spam link? As a commentator says, it's certainly misleading, and it leads to a site my browswer blocks as a security threat.
@Turing85 I don’t think so since they aren’t as big and clunky like normal one boxes
@AdrianMole Whatever it is, the certificate is invalid. It's fishy and should go the way of the dodo.
I'll mark it as a TODO to go DODO. :)
That's a No-no
maybe ask JoJo?
03:05
Nah, I'll just need to reactivate my dodo mojo.
@AdrianMole It seems to be a genuine tool (or was at one point previously). No excessive promotion (that I can see). I just deleted it.
@AdrianMole "needs author edit" passes even for spam in triage: stackoverflow.com/review/triage/33540965
03:19
@Turing85 Sometimes, often not, because if you really need to actually quote, then in order to fulfill the requirements of the CC BY-SA license you basically have to provide all the information which is included in a onebox of a chat message.
However, quoting yourself only a few minutes after you said something is ... not advised and often considered rude. That doesn't mean you can never quote yourself, but it's going to be a situation where it comes down to the judgement of the room owners.
@HovercraftFullOfEels I'd argue that this post needs clarity; it is missing a question.
@Turing85 The post needs to be deleted, TBH
I don't see how it can be possibly salvaged.
It will be. One way or another.
I've got nothing against homework questions, if they can be asked in a way that makes them helpful to all, or any questions, for that matter, but that's not what we've got here.
03:43
@HovercraftFullOfEels And it's gone. The Roomba will do the rest.
04:38
Why not raise a NAA flag on that?
I mean, no point now, but, in similar cases, a NAA flag on something that meets our standards for NAA (like that definitely does) is more expedient than a 20k del-pls.
04:54
Hmm. Just got a "-10 - Serial Voting was reversed" on Meta.SE. How can one vote be serial voting?
05:07
Any voting that is not done over a parallel interface is serial voting.
Maybe its parity bit was wrong?
05:24
I also got one of those recently
Noisy environment? Too much EMI? Bad connection?
I guess some user went on a spree and all their votes (in that spree) were reversed.
It's most likely to be a manual vote invalidation, due to problematic voting by a user.
Because, yeah, it seems weird that the system would automatically invalidate a single vote.
05:46
Hmm.
06:10
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (dupe-hammered by poster)
Is that a wrong link on your "Snarky"?
... I can understand if you thought one of my recent comments had an element of snark, but not really Jason's, that you linked.
@AdrianMole Not a wrong link. It got edited. It used to say: "File" is of type const char [5] while "&File" is of type const char [6]
OK. That is mildly snarksome.
It's like that old joke about the pilot flying the small, single-engine charter plane who lost visibility on his way to the Seattle airport. He finally comes across a tall building in the fog and asks a guy through an open window where he is. The reply is, "You're in a plane". He sets a heading and lands perfectly at Sea-Tac.
The passengers are amazed, having no idea how he did it, based on that information. He said that, because the reply he received was 100% correct but also completely useless, he knew the building must have been one of Microsoft's offices.
06:35
is advanced flagging breaking in this page for anyone else?
@SurajRao Seems OK, to me. What did you try to do with AF? Flag, presumably, but NAA or spam? (Could be either, I think.)
> ReferenceError: $ is not defined
??
am using FF and violentmonkey
Sometimes AF appears to not work (i.e. the menu doesn't show) if it can't reach the MetaSmoke website. That doesn't appear to the case, here, though.
even AI detector script is throwing the same thing only on this page
$ is not defined suggests that the userscript is loading before jQuery.
06:46
i.sstatic.net/3UKrC.png pretty consistent on this page
I assume it's only on that one question page, and it works fine on others?
hang on.. now its breaking in others too
07:02
restarted FF..not much use
07:26
@SurajRao not enough jQuery ...
@rene These days, it's more like not enough Ólafur Waage, amirite?
07:55
@CodyGray right
 
1 hour later…
dur
dur
09:41
@bad_coder I unvoted the question, but I forgot to delete my chat message, sorrry.
dur
dur
09:57
Is that question: stackoverflow.com/questions/75024741/… a regular question on SO or should it be closed? What would be the close reason?
Does not seem to me like something that could be closed. Although it could certainly stand to be improved with some edits.
 
2 hours later…
13:33
Migrate this to SU or just VTC for being off topic for the site?
sneaky mod is being sneaky ;)
Ugh, I missed the Mac part. might not be on-topic on Unix
idk. looks like they only have 739 Qs tagged macos
It might be. One of their mods is active in TL, so I'll ping them to make sure
sounds good
14:01
@NathanOliver Since there's a debate going on, what, in particular, made you think it was off-topic on SO? Not sure it's wrong, just had an honest question and realized that answer has always been messy
@Machavity It's asking how to install the compiler so I though maybe migrating to SU would give them more help. I don't remember if install help for compilers is OT since it is a tool primarily used by programmers.
There was a Meta post, long ago, where Big Hans held forth the opinion that installing a compiler is much the same as installing any other piece of software. If it fails, then the problem is likely not due to anything related to programming and is more suited to admins ... and thus to SU.
^ that's what I was thinking
See, that's where folks like you and Hans are going wrong ... too much thinking.
jps
jps
14:27
seems we have a troll, creating questions with the same code and sometimes no question or questions unrelated to the code under different accounts. See stackoverflow.com/questions/75032085/… and my comment on this question.
Hmm, twice now the request archiver userscript has broken for me in as many days
@TylerH works for me. Are you still on IE6? If so, consider upgrading to IE7 ...
What's unique about these two incidents is that uninstalling it and reinstalling it doesn't seem to work
The button(s) show up while loading but then once the chat room has fully loaded they disappear again. Firefox's console is saying TypeError: window.fkey is not a function
Are you on GM4?
ViolentMonkey 2.13.5
14:36
People using ViolentMonkey on FF have recently been reporting issues with userscripts failing.
Looks like that add-on auto-updated on the 5th, yeah
bummer
It seems there are at least two distinct issues. One relates to the @inject-into directive suddenly ceasing to work, and possibly changing behavior. The other is a failure of jQuery (cause unknown, but it seems that jQuery objects are not defined when they should be, so perhaps a loading-order issue, making it possibly the same issue?).
Yep, downgrading to 2.12.13 immediately fixes the issue
I'll keep auto-updates turned off for it for now and check back some time in the future to see if a version newer than 2.13.5 is available
@TylerH Makes sense. That way, when the problem comes back, you'll have forgotten about it, and once you finally remember, it'll technically be an all-new problem since it's a different version. :-)
Yeah, TM doesn't seem to be suffering the same way
14:41
@CodyGray exactly!
FWIW @AdrianMole, @NathanOliver, I was one of the folks involved in the debate that Machavity mentioned. Summary is that Unix/Linux.SE is OK with Mac-related stuff (since macOS is Unix, after all), as long as it's not macOS GUI stuff. But the Unix/Linux mod and I both felt like that question was equally on-topic for SO, since it's about compiling a compiler, and compilers are tools commonly (exclusively?) used by programmers.
It may well be that the problem is something related to the OS, or even something that a non-programmer sysadmin could figure out, but I don't think topicality should be assessed ex post facto (i.e., you should not have to know the solution in order to determine whether the question is on-topic here). If it's prima facie on topic because it's about programming tools, then it's on-topic.
No harm done either way, admittedly, as long as we don't set a misleading precedent. Questions about configuring your IDE are on-topic here, as are questions about compiling stuff. As always, it's perfectly fine to ask elsewhere if you would prefer that audience and/or think it'd get you a better answer.
no problem, that's why I asked in the first place :)
Yeah, sorry I missed it. Nothing better than discussing it to death after the fact, right?
Oh wait, what's that? I hear there may, in fact, be something better.
@CodyGray Have you not been introduced to pre sliced bread?
15:01
@snakecharmerb that particular close reason seems wrong, though needs details or clarity would fly with me
@tripleee ooops I thought I'd clicked needs debugging details
17:47
@Makyen Violentmonkey Firefox userscript issues: Workaround: in Violentmonkey's "Advanced" settings, check "Synchronous page mode" checkbox. Known fix: downgrade to the prior version and disable Violentmonkey updates in about:addons. More detail: The recently-updated, current version of Violentmonkey, 2.13.5, has issues with loading userscripts in page mode, which is how most userscripts need to be loaded, due to how most userscripts' are written. The workaround of checking the "Synchronous page mode" checkbox resolved the issues in limited testing, but more testing is needed to be sure that's really sufficient. It is known that downgrading your copy of Violentmonkey to the prior version, 2.12.13, will solve the issue. The most recent older version, 2.12.13, can be downloaded from here for Firefox. You can see all released versions of Violentmonkey for Firefox on addons.mozilla.org. If you downgrade, you will probably want to disable automatic updates for Violentmonkey from Violentmonkey's extension configuration page which you can access from about:addons. [This has been edited to remove an inaccurate explanation and to provide the workaround that doesn't require downgrading.]
10
18:30
So, apparently there's a tag for the Turkish language. Does having this make sense? Seems a little strange to me.
Also, is there an easy way to tell ChatGPT answers?
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Not sure, but it may be useful if there are unique things about the Turkish language that make it hard to handle for things like encoding
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Ad-hoc checking is easy with various detectors: google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=chatgpt+detector
I don't think there's any user script or add-on that automatically checks and highlights or flags them anywhere
Excellent, thanks.
I don't have any particular knowledge of Turkish, so I'm not sure if it poses any unique programming problems. I guess just leave it for now? Or see if anyone on Meta knows?
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Yeah, checking on Meta is always good
18:46
The Turkish "i" is notorious for not round tripping between upper and lower case, so there's that.
19:10
So, what's the etiquette when someone posts a worse duplicate answer 20 minutes after you posted your own answer? I down voted it because it is bad but I'm hesitant to delete vote as it might seem like I'm trying to do something inappropriate.
treat it just as you would an answer to a post you haven't answered.
@NathanOliver There's no SO rule against voting to delete a competing answer. I've done that myself (before having a diamond)
Thanks guys
@NathanOliver 20 minutes is plenty of time to notice another answer first
so yeah, don't hesitate to downvote
thumbs up
19:29
@TylerH Would you be willing to do a bit of testing? The explanation which I gave above looks like it's not the actual cause, though downgrading does fix it, as you found. It looks like there's an fix in the works for at least some of the issues. My testing tends to indicate there might be more than what's been reported, but that's currently unclear. My testing has also indicated that there's the possibility of an easier workaround than downgrading. I've only been able to do a limited amount of testing using some userscripts. Given that you're actively using Violentmonkey, I'd appreciate it if you're willing to try the following:
Re-update to the most recent released version, 2.13.5. In Violentmonkey's Advanced settings, check the "Synchronous page mode" option. That seemed to resolve the issues I'd seen. You may also want to change "Default injection mode" to "page"'.
In the currently released version of Violentmonkey, the page mode of injection is broken, but appears to work with "Synchronous page mode" checked. The additional thing I was seeing is that userscripts with an @require directive were being auto-selected to be injected in "content" mode, which very few userscripts are designed to handle.
Some userscripts will happen to work when injected in "content" mode, but that's typically just because they don't do anything that will have issues. OTOH, there are a relative few that are designed to work in either mode.
With "Synchronous page mode" checked, both injecting in "page" mode worked and userscripts which used @require were injected in page mode when "auto" was selected for "Default injection mode". However, it needs a bit more testing prior to recommending just one or both of those settings changes, rather than downgrading. Thanks.
19:45
My hat's gone
mine isn't
 
1 hour later…
20:48
@Makyen Yes I can test that in a bit
Thanks.
21:31
@Makyen OK, I updated to 2.13.5 again, and the script broke upon refresh. When I went into settings and checked "Synchronous page mode" and then refreshed, the options appeared again after a subsequent refresh.
@TylerH OK. Thanks. If you're willing, I'd appreciate you keeping it that way, rather than downgrading, for a while to see if you see any issues with other scripts and/or for general use. "Synchronous page mode" shouldn't have a substantial impact on normal usage, at least from what Violentmonkey describes it as doing.
Sure thing; I will keep it that way until it breaks again
21:56
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine You may find Glorfindel's user script helpful. I haven't used it, but saw him post a link to it. (CC @TylerH)
Does this answer answer the question? or is is VQL for link only
@Ethan if you strip out the links it still answers the Q IMHO.
It's technically an answer to the question, but I think the question is OT and voted to close
^ that too
@TylerH I don't know how you define automatically. There's OpenAI detector which adds a button to all posts.
Ah. Ninja'd by @IanCampbell
22:07
Catching up on the transcript is a tricky business for sure.
22:21
(if there is an existing, better question that explains KeyError generally, this should probably be a duplicate instead.)
23:09
@TylerH Thanks. Please let me know if there are any issues. Hopefully, Violentmonkey will release an actual update soon.

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