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3 hours later…
05:50
we have these two questions that have the exact same cause - referencing another instance variable when declaring another instance one. However the source code, and thus the answers don't match, would it make sense to merge them, or just leave them as is? stackoverflow.com/q/32351343/1974224, stackoverflow.com/q/32693150/1974224
If the answers don't match, then merging makes it worse, since the merged answers will be referencing something not in the question they were merged into and thus sound incoherent.
darn, both are duplicates of an older question stackoverflow.com/questions/25854300/…, however, the error message specified there is from an older swift version, thus won't be find in search results...
But they can both be closed against the same duplicate.
@Cristik Then maybe a new canonical is needed. You could choose an existing one or write a self-Q&A to close things against.
yeah, me thinks the same :)
And by "you" I mean in general, not you specifically.
05:55
Is it helpful to duplicate the advice in the accepted answer, then extend the question scope so that you can add value to the page? ...I've almost certainly done this in the past ...but is it good for Stack Overflow? ex: stackoverflow.com/a/71413003/2943403 Thoughts?
there are multiple reasons of why the "instance member cannot be used on type..." error: referencing instance members as class/static ones, initializing properties dependant on others, using as default value for params...
and currently we have these reasons and solutions scattered among multiple questions/answers
@mickmackusa Meh, if it's not quoting a novel, then I'd say it's fine. If you say something like "Yes, A works but contrast with B" it helps if both of these are in the same place. Rather than having to hunt down where one of it is.
so yeah, a canonical might make the most sense
@Cristik I feel your pain :/ Lack of good canonicals is very annoying.
yes, it's annoying, and also a source of time waste, for both the asker, who has to skim hundreds of questions and answers, and curators who need to find the best duplicate for that particular case
06:03
That's what I meant by annoying. I've been on both sides of this: trying to find a solution to something I faced, and the solution which is scattered all over the place, and having to find a solution for somebody else when I know what the root cause is and probably the correct keywords and still I just find little pieces.
and to add to the offense, high rep users that keep answering instead of closing as duplicate
and worse, answering multiple of the same kind of duplicates
I'm actually opposed to "super-canonicals" like "what does this error mean" and "what is this regex symbol" (not real page titles in quotations). Takes longer to scan the page than it would to search for specific answers.
yes I agree with this ^
It's artificial and it's useful only to gold badgers to hammer stuff. I don't know who actually searches for "regex reference" on SO. If I want a regex reference, I just go find it on some specialized site where it's comprehensive and full of examples
For JS we have What does this symbol mean in JavaScript? but AFAIK, it's almost never used as the primary target. It makes it super convenient to find the correct target for questions about different symbols, though.
I wasn't even aware of the pipe op in JS, is it a thing?
06:15
@blackgreen No :( Not yet. There is a proposal for it but it's not in yet.
oh? why is it listed in the canonical
experimental thing created by Mozilla that works only in Firefox by enabling it explicitly
wow, nice
@blackgreen It has some support in some environments, and there has been at least one question for it. Many things in JS are implemented before they are officially part of the standard.
Which also means that by the time the proposal is ratified and available officially, we might already have several Q&As for it.
Is this question about Amazon-quicksight on-topic? It reads to me as if this belongs on either webmasters or super user
06:33
@mickmackusa there are cases, like NPE where a single canonical is needed
we shouldn't have to explain to every novice why their code crashes because they forgot a null check
also, answers on such canonical questions cover a broader range of possible causes and solutions, without the canonical we'd had the same content scattered on several pages instead of one, and even worse, some of the answers being almost identical
07:03
@Cristik I suppose my position on such a topic would be that only one page should be the canonical for how to resolve a NPE. Then there might be loads of signposts that demonstrate different ways to encounter the error, and those sign posts should point to the canonical.
@mickmackusa The problem here is how does one know they have the same problem as the canonical? If somebody googles "NullPointerException in WidgetFoo" and land on "Here is how to fix a NullPointerException in Bar" then many would just think it's not relevant to them, even if it's exactly the same cause and solution.
That's why we get so many duplicates to begin with - users have different variable names and thus the existing duplicate doesn't apply to them. Making sure the duplicate is further removed, exacerbates the problem, IMO
Ideally, we should have a signpost for every possible (generalized) encounter and all of those which can be resolved the same way (or by one of the ways listed in the canon) should be closed by the canon.
Deletion of pages is appropriate when we have redundancy among signposts.
@RyanM Thanks! Didn't expect an edit by the author to push it out of the LQA queue. To me that doesn't look like a good idea. In my experience, edits are not uncommon but rarely an actual improvement.
@JeanneDark I think the idea is that one might comment a suggestion (e.g., it's currently link-only, please fix that) and the author could fix it and not require you to retract the flag. On the other hand, that makes the auto-downvote in that scenario absolutely nonsensical.
In general, the VLQ flag is rather poorly designed.
@RyanM The idea with the edit marking the flag helpful is not so bad, but the VLQ flag is not well-defined. However, it may make sense to not invalidate a LQA review also. Too many bad posts may slip through the crack.
Maybe I should suggest my idea about the new flags on MSO one day...
07:40
should the first paragraph from stackoverflow.com/a/72605266/1974224 be removed? or only the part mentioning the book? or it's not frowned upon to reference own books/articles?
I don't think it's unreasonable to offer yoor own book for an in-depth explanation with suitable disclosure; I agree that this one might be slightly iffy but I would leave it
08:19
definitely NAA, but doesn't look like spam to me?
@tripleee the profile is linked to the site... DOnt think they came across any post
so technically undisclosed affiliation
Ugh, I've seen that kodlogs site before in SO posts. It didn't seem like it was spam at the time - the author didn't seem to be affiliated with the article. At least, I couldn't find anything that overtly confirms it but I suspected a relation. Now I believe that it's either being spammed by author A promoting an article by author B. Or it's all fake accounts.
The previous spam I suspected was similar in nature - a link only "found a solution here" thing.
You're not proving a point to me, you half-baked pretzel.
Might be worth blacklisting the domain in SD
@JeanneDark Pretzels are not pointy. We shouldn't hold that against them.
half-baked ones especially
08:33
There's a first time for everything.
Is that a pretzel? Can it be used to choke someone?
^ the post it is under needs to be seen
interesting, first answers audit queue shows asker's avatar in light theme, while answerer's in dark theme (I use the dark theme on SO)
@Cristik image with transparent background?
yes, transparent background
08:54
New answer to a question with already 5 answers:
guys for real its been 10 years ago and nobody found a solution?
 
1 hour later…
10:23
Or the entire question on-topic for that matter. Might be better on Ethereum
10:33
@Adriaan It's some sort of minified code. Whether it answers the question or not, I cannot say. Which also means it's a very useless answer. My best guess is that it's copy and paste of some library.
Well, it's not even a full copy and paste. It just stops in the middle. The code cannot work - there is a syntax error. Nor is it clear how to make it work.
Ugh, it's not even real code. I just noticed - it's the HTML source of some page. The title of the page is "Avoid "This gas fee has been suggested by" message - Google Search". Which also reveals what it is. It's the HTML code for the Google search results page when you search for "Avoid "This gas fee has been suggested by" message".
If I'm generous, I'd call it a "LMGTFY answer".
11:16
@Adriaan To finally be able to answer this: apparently it was a first attempt at writing a question
Is this question on topic or perhaps general computing?
stackoverflow.com/a/72699418/4826457 NAA or can it be edited into an answer?
11:42
@JeanneDark I'd say on-topic. It's about granting access programmatically via single sign-on. Although it's asked from more of user perspective, it would be of interest to developers who want to know what access they need to ask for their application. I'd say it's also on-topic for SU as asked, though, but the focus of the answers might be slightly different. And maybe it's the same other stacks that would take Office365 questions.
thank you
12:29
Is SO going down for about a minute? Or is it my connection?
It's weird because I can't get to SE and the music I stream from TIDAL stops. But apparently I have access to other stuff.
@Kyll Happy Birthday
Unfortunately can no longer super ping Kyll from this year onwards ... :(
@Kyll Happy Birthday (from Bhargav as well)
@BhargavRao I got ya covered ;)
@Machavity thanks :D
Kyll's is one birthday that I can't forget.
12:44
I do wish he'd come back. Not seen since Nov 2020. Even gunr pokes around some
Yeah... He's busy with his company. Sam's busy in the army ..
And the fish, don't forget Tunaki
Tuna is a different story though ...
Bit fishy :p
Would we consider this answer an old link-only NAA?
@Spevacus Yes. Everything relevant to that answer is hidden behind the link
13:04
@Adriaan Yeah, Tunaki is another "cold turkey" quitter
13:38
Miss those folks
 
1 hour later…
@dippas The question is asking how to do something, and provides example inputs and outputs. Code and/or an MCVE is not required for such questions.
16:42
@cigien I agree, although unfortunately it is a little late since this question is already closed
@TylerH @dippas Binning because the reasoning was invalid, despite it already being closed
16:59
@TylerH I'll offer a disagreeing position. I think needs debugging details is valid, because the question author left out a clearly important case, for when the 0 occurs between two non-zero numbers. That issue was raised in the comments.
Personally, I voted details/clarity, but I think there's a lot of overlap between that and debugging details.
18:06
@IanCampbell That means it needs details/clarity, doesn't it? While there is some overlap with those close reasons, I don't see how "needs debugging details" could possibly apply when there's no code to debug. And I don't mean code that exists, but is missing from the question, but where no code exists at all.
If something is missing information, but undoubtably would be a duplicate should it ever gain that missing information, should it instead be a duplicate
The close dialog says "The question should be updated to include desired behavior..." so that might be where they were coming from.
18:24
and folks provided answers that do just that as well
@IanCampbell Whether it's important to cover that case is a matter of debate. OP said "remove all zeros. The only time zero should remain is when you start with 0". That is clearly interpretable to me (and to a computer)
One could ask for the example set to be updated to include such an example of a non-trailing zero or non-leading zero, but it's technically not needed as the question was phrased
I think the way the question is written and the set of examples provided leads one to question whether the author wants the internal zeros or not.
And it's certainly valid to ask for that extra clarification in a comment if you want (as one person did)
it's just not necessary to answer the question
Totally agree with Kevin though, definitely a duplicate.
oh, i was referring to a completely different, somewhat theoretical case
OK, well, then just change my comma to a period in your mind. And capitalize the D. =P
18:33
:p
18:56
Is NAA sufficient on this, or does it really need a custom flag?
@AdrianMole NAA probably would have worked. But "random passing mod" also works. So...
The custom queue is kinda large right now
There's no mod so good as a random mod. :)
@Machavity I'm swamped at work so naturally I have time to spend on SO, lemme at 'em
;-)
@TylerH shh People will catch onto my "mod all the SOCVR ROs" plan. We're so close now...
2
I thought the human flag crushing machine (AKA Ryan M) would have taken care of the custom queue. But I see one of my relatively straightforward flags from June 8th is still up (please don't go looking for it, it's nothing important).
19:04
@IanCampbell He got slowed down by consulting the sacred tome, WWBD (What Would Bhargav Do)
3
Normally it's hard to pin down why it gets large, but we had one user with a ton of non-disclosed posts who flagged all of them for undeletion. That was a pain. Then we got a glut of plagiarism flags. That's still a lot of the current queue
Should we make braclets?
I'm surprised the company isn't more into the machine learning craze. Where are our realtime predictive models for flag queue backup?
willQueueBlock() { return true; }
Sadly probably higher recall than the state-of-the-art model take releases 100 metric tons of CO2 to train.
@IanCampbell That's possible. I read that bullet as only applying to questions where code is provided, but desired behavior is missing. BTW, did the question really need to be deleted immediately? OP was asked for missing details, and the question was closed, so there seems to be no need to rush the deletion, especially since it would have roomba'ed anyway.
19:16
I didn't think it would serve as a helpful duplicate, since it's missing that piece of information.
Admittedly, the turn around was quite quick in a professional timescale, so I'd be open to undelete request
I don't follow. How can it be a duplicate and be unclear what the question is asking?
If the missing information can only be one possible thing, then it's not even unclear, as anyone (not just the OP) could add that information in.
In the current state, it's unclear. You could close it as a duplicate of the "remove trailing zeros" version or the "remove all zeros except the single zero" version, or both.
But if someone finds that question in it's current state, it doesn't help people who want either option.
There appears to be a "remove trailing zeros" target, but I can't seem to find one for "remove all zeros". A google search for it only shows the question we're talking about.
The question has answers applying to both options as well, so in fact, it's going to help people looking for either solution.
That's fair, and hats off to that one answer author that answered both options, but the question doesn't help.
You've convinced me that the answers are worth keeping. I voted to undelete, and I'll be less quick with my vote next time. Thanks for the feedback.
If the question gets undeleted, I'll ping polywhirl and see if they feel like updating their answer to include both options. If they do that, then the question can be edited to only focus on the "removing all zeros" aspect, which all other answers already cover. If polywhirl agrees, I'll just edit the question, and vote to reopen (assuming no one finds a duplicate in the interim).
19:30
Is the reputation popup broken?
The inbox is broken for me too. Doesn't seem to be userscripts.
Yeah, same here. Both are broken.
works fine for me
No good on Chrome or Safari. What browser are you using Kevin?
chrome
19:39
Inbox is gone for me as well: 500 error. I'm on IE5 on Windows XP
I made a meta question please feel free to edit in details.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
maybe i just have the offending bit blocked
is everyone experiencing it using teams?
Yeah, it's teams that's offensive meta.stackexchange.com/questions/379710/… ;)
maybe don't use broken products
Teams went down for a bit. There's some odd stuff going on
19:50
Seems to be back now. (The popups that is, I don't know what's happening with Teams.)
@rene Dare I be so bold as to ask ... Why?
20:11
The question we were all wondering but afraid to ask.
XP came with IE6
He meant Windows ME. Happens to the best of us
20:28
heh, i love staff responses of "What happens if you try X?"
Meta was originally intended to be used for customer support, right? Seems legit to me.
Should have led with "Have you tried turning your computer off and on again?" first though.
@IanCampbell There are a lot of flags each day. Some mods seem to be on holidays. In the past 30 days top 5 mods handled 23.5k flags. If you divide it up that's >150 flags per day per mod. Some flags are easier than others, but many take a significant amount of time to handle. Even if we consider a minute per flag, that is 2h a day of handling flags. Some flags are prioritized and some are just left for later.
Before I became a mod I wondered why some of my flags were pending for weeks. Now, I understand that it's not because mods aren't handling them, but because there are too many flags.
That is a lot of flags
The UU bot isn't helping
it seems like there'd be a, pretty straight forward solution to having too many flags
20:43
Increase the rep. required to raise flags to 100k?
Well, the IS department at my employer decided there were too many open tickets. So they just closed them complete if they were older than 6 months. Problem solved. (True story)
those are both certainly valid options
We can't really do that with flags as they are raising important issues that need to be handled
... and then there are also flags that are just pointlessly wasting mod time
the third though is one that's been done roughly yearly for a while
but these are easy to decline
20:45
OK, so do a little NLP on the flags to queue up the obviously useless ones and just mow through them?
I seem to be dominating the "posts deleted" statistic, even surpassing Ryan M
export them to a spreadsheet and do some filtering
@IanCampbell The problem with that is that there's an off-chance that the user is pointing a valid problem, but can't articulate it.
Or, for any (custom) flag that remains unhandled after (say) 48 hours, automatically escalate it to staff.
Staff is overloaded too
20:47
Yeah - and mods are cheaper than staff. ;)
Staff can't even handle the volume of the stuff moderators can't.
Well, the easy solution is to appoint more moderators. Sure, they will burn out, but we can always appoint more!
One way to help us is to visit LQA review
I can only do 20, so there must not be that many open tasks.
I cleared some it
Is this spam disguised as a question?
21:10
18Qs on the PyCharm tag in 24H, it's taxing curating this tag... I'll leave today's CVs for later.
@IanCampbell (cc @Dharman) folks think NLP is easy and magically solves problems.
Did you check the link? =P
If you manage to memorize an extensive grammar, implement the syntax and morphology for kicks, then you're maybe in a place that would allow you to make a meaningful NLP application.
One of my fields of research is NLP of electronic health record text. So it was partly serious but mostly a joke.
@IanCampbell what frameworks are you using?
FlairNLP (No affiliation, please don't red flag me =P)
Is this NAA?
21:17
@IanCampbell It's stupid hard to do that.
You can give health related personel a form, and they basically ignore it
Well, we're not doing so bad. 87% recall on NER.
I mean, how can you measure that that isn't recorded anywhere?
My colleagues and I generated a large corpus of manually annotated text.
Yeah, F that
We'll be releasing the dataset with the pre-print, assuming the IRB doesn't have any concerns. You can have a go at it.
21:20
Send the link my way, will be interesting
Sure, will do.
@IanCampbell I follow some of Humbolt uni's theoretical output, in practice for the stuff I've worked with PyTorch falls short of state-of-the-art, basically I use proprietary costum built solutions for everything.
We're training our own model using BioBERT. Admittedly it's one of my collaborators that set up the first model, but I've been fiddling with things. And our research compute cluster has some fancy GPUs which makes the training fast.
@IanCampbell what percentage of AI-NLP publications in the field would you consider garbage-in-garbage-out currently?
95%? =P
21:30
@IanCampbell fair estimate, I'd agree.
did we just tagged the same question?
meh
either way it was closed
funny coincident :)
@tacoshy If the same post gets three consecutive cv-pls requests in here, it automatically self-destructs. :)
didn't knew about that. So in theory it could be exploitet as delete?
21:56
@AdrianMole I though it summons the question into the chatroom as a terribly disruptive onebox...
@tacoshy The reason you didn't know about it is because it's not actually true. Just my strange sense of humour.
... but it will (most likely) already be closed, by the time the third request appears. :)
ah I see, I'm an autist I dont smell humour easily, it's totally on me.
22:40
Do we really need all the "In my case it was the NextExtensions Extension extension..." extension answers to this question?
@dippas you commented on a question with linear-gradient. Should we still wait or tag it for missing debugging-details or clarity?
@tacoshy tag it
A no-code from a 33k user... SMH
Can someone bin the request for stackoverflow.com/q/72707908 it's been rectified
23:16
@jmoerdyk → 1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
As a tip for the future: it's easier if you link to the message
I couldn't figure out how... I wasn't seeing the reply button, does the "unclosed request review" userscript mess with it?
oh... the permalink
Theres a userscript that includes adding a reply button to your own messages. But I can't seem to remember which one.
23:34
@jmoerdyk There are a few userscripts which add a "reply" link to your own messages. However, the stock UI doesn't have a "reply" link on your own messages.

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