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1:09 AM
^ only now eligible for del-pls (unless someone uv'ed it in the time between your del-pls and my dv).
 
user17242583
1:39 AM
@Machavity You can clear stars? Then you should be able to see them...
 
user17242583
Can you clear votes on a post, then?
 
@richardec It's all-or-nothing. We can't see who starred something, only the count (which everyone can see).
@richardec No, not even CMs can do that.
 
user17242583
@RyanM Hmm, maybe they allow that so that you can cleanup after star trolls?
 
And/or just...clean up the star board generally (any room owner can do this, it's not a mod-only thing).
 
 
1 hour later…
3:05 AM
@richardec Please don't. I know there's a smiley on this, but there is someone who does appear to add an extra autoflag of their own in some cases. We're ... not that pleased. So, the topic is something of concern and I don't want people getting ideas. :; Adding an additional autoflag on the Support Number spam would result in 6 automatic flags on them, which is something we're not really wanting, at this time.
 
3:24 AM
No more talking. all go to sleep or i report u
 
3:58 AM
@DanielWiddis that...is the worst self-answered question I have ever seen.
 
@RyanM I know, right? :D
 
@RyanM can moderators straight up delete a question with no close votes cast on it? I mean, except through flagging it.
 
@MarcoBonelli Yep
 
I saw the answer in LQA and thought NAA and wondered what the question was. And I guess... well it did answer the question.
 
We usually don't...but we can.
 
4:00 AM
I see, yeah I suspect that'd be frowned upon
 
the close reason is a great easy way to explain the deletion
 
Of course
 
Is a signpost a good signpost if there are no "good" answers for researchers to see? stackoverflow.com/q/72111679/2943403
 
 
1 hour later…
5:32 AM
I noticed something interesting, for two answers in a row: both were scored 0, I downvoted them, and instantly saw a Delete (1) next to them - did that delete vote came from the LQA review queue? The answers didn't yet had votes on them, so regular VTD shouldn't have been possible
unless... someone downvoted, voted to delete, and then retracted the downvote... but that sounds too maliciously, even for me :p
is this NLN or U/U: "I don't see a reason why they shouldn't work.. Please remove your post, this is not an answer."?
 
@Cristik Doesn't seem unkind to me. They even said please.
 
right... and missed pasting the ending - was on another row - the comment ended in "Thanks" :)
 
@Cristik It doesn't seem like a well supported comment (sometimes I included a demo link to prove that an answer is wrong). If the comment gave more than a vague opinion, I'd say keep it to help inform researchers -- but it doesn't have a lot of substance.
 
@mickmackusa yeah, it has to go, my indecision was related to the type of flag to raise
the answer was a one-liner proposing a library version downgrade, but still that comment could've been better phrased
 
@Cristik ah, right. non-offensive, well-intended, a bit assertive, but not offensive.
 
5:40 AM
passive-aggressive :)
 
@mickmackusa kind of like me on Mondays before caffeine.
 
kind of like me on days of the week ending in "y".
 
BTW, one can find all kind of interesting stuff happening on posts they commented years ago
 
@SurajRao Yes, it does. Why do both users have -MT in their names?
 
@Cristik I just experienced this exact same occurrence at stackoverflow.com/a/27204759/2943403 Can anyone explain how this can be happening so often? I mean, I downvoted, refreshed the page, and it already had a del vote on it! Something is sus.
 
And the same location in their profiles
Damn it, and they are talking about MangoDB which does exist but most likely it's supposed to be Mongo
 
yeah thats the second thing..
 
6:18 AM
not a good Q/A at all
question is, should we curate it, or keep it until those two make the same mistake again, for evidences to the moderator them?
 
@mickmackusa The first delete vote was cast in 2015
Actually, I think you should be able to see that: stackoverflow.com/posts/27204759/…
 
Hmm. Yes, I can see it. I didn't realize that a delete vote that is invalidated by a neutralizing upvote is retained indefinitely, then when the post returns to negative, the del-vote it re-implemented. Thems be some sticky del-votes!
 
and an accept... any one with expertise in mongodb/mangodb can make sense of it?
 
thanks for the tip @RyanM, I also checked the timeline of one of the aswers I noticed this "issue" on, and found this "Looks OK × 2, Recommend Deletion × 2, Delete × 1"
so the LQA review ended up casting a delete vote, a delete vote that was not visible to the UI until the answer had negative score
 
@Cristik wow. del-vote loading.
 
6:24 AM
but for the other answer, I see that "Recommend Deletion × 5, Edit × 1", and daily summary "Up: 0 Down: 0 Delete: 1"
did those "Recommend Deletion x 5" turned into an actual deletion vote?
 
@SurajRao I completely missed that the two user profiles list the same work. The two are colleagues for sure. Assuming it's actually two different people but let's assume they are.
 
@Cristik link? I can tell you.
 
@RyanM this is the answer: stackoverflow.com/a/30052873/1974224
 
@VLAZ there is no way to confirm vote manipulation without more instances.. The question I think is closeworthy anyway
 
@SurajRao Well, no actual upvotes on either post. And I checked the accounts - doesn't seem like there is another interaction in terms of posting in the same place.
 
6:31 AM
@Cristik Uhhh. Hmmm. I have no idea how that was cast. It was cast by a 20k user at the same time (as in, the "S" shows on mouseover in the timeline) as they added a comment. They are not any of the reviewers. I suspect this was something that worked differently in 2015.
 
2015 - good old days :)
 
@VLAZ According to this its a joke server or related to a deprecated framework
 
Yes, that is correct. That's why I don't think they mean Mango but Mongo
That question is also where I have all my knowledge for MangoDB from
 
peer pressure made the OP delete the question... poor guy
 
Actually, it made the answerer delete their answer, and then the OP delete their question, one right after the other. The leading theory is that the answerer and asker are actually dominoes.
 
6:40 AM
and we were the ones that pushed the first piece :)
 
Definitely no coordination there, nope.
 
or is it "who pushed"? most of the times I confuse these :p
 
(moderators are looking into it)
 
@CodyGray or simply using a single core CPU, forcing them to operate serially
 
Multiple users on a single-core CPU?
 
6:41 AM
or maybe they are taking turns and using punch cards
 
@Cristik Should be "who" unless we're inanimate objects. Which might be the case, I don't know.
 
@RyanM Which part of what happened there still remains unresolved/unclear? Just the issue of how a user posted a comment and cast a delete vote simultaneously?
 
@VLAZ yeah... can't be sure these days which one of us here are actually bots, and which are humans
 
@CodyGray How a user cast a delete vote on a zero-scored answer outside of a review task
 
Beep boop, nope, very hard to tell.
 
6:45 AM
@Cristik I won't stand for such accusations! Not everybody needs be human. We have some glasses, blurry flowers, and abstract shapes. There is even an elephant in the room, and you omitted him.
2
 
@RyanM Ah, I missed the zero-score aspect.
There is a loophole that allows removing the downvote after casting the delete vote, though.
 
Ahhhhh. That could be it. That wouldn't show up in the vote summary, I suppose.
Is the "S" actually simultaneous, or is the same second close enough?
 
@JeanneDark Is the information completely out of date? Otherwise, it seems like we may be risking some loss of value by deleting that.
@RyanM Hmm. I doubt there's a requirement that it be truly simultaneous. On the server side, there is hardly any such thing... I mean, most actions that we think of as "simultaneous" are actually two requests behind the scenes, right?
 
@CodyGray If you think it has value, you can bin the request
 
@CodyGray I had always thought it was "the same action created both entries"
 
6:51 AM
@JeanneDark I'm not asking what I think, I'm asking what you think! :-)
 
Then please bin the request :)
 
Hrmph.
 
@CodyGray I wonder why do people consider it a "loophole"? If they are affraid about retribution, then since up/down votes are anonymous, this should not be a problem.
but yeah, it's a little bit strange one would retract a down vote on a post they'd consider delete-worthy
 
@Cristik People constantly assume who downvoted them based on timing. They're often wrong, but it doesn't stop them.
 
@Cristik It makes no sense. Why would you not downvote something that you delete-vote?
 
6:53 AM
I don't think it's a matter of retribution. The idea is that non-negatively-scored posts shouldn't be deleted. You wouldn't have been able to cast a delete vote unless you had downvoted, so the fact that you clear your own downvote after casting the delete vote is definitely a loophole.
Mind you, I don't necessarily think it's a loophole that needs to be closed, because I don't think there is any real abuse entailed within it.
 
Also downvoting answers costs rep.
 
Unless it gets deleted...
 
Well, yeah, but since there's no real means for deletion votes to be reviewed for more to be cast...
 
The 10k tools! You know, the thing everyone no one knows about.
 
@RyanM They also assume on factors other than timing. Basically, any time a username is visible, it's a potential target.
 
6:55 AM
Yeah, I've...tried. It's quite possibly the worst way to find posts deserving delete votes. I gave up virtually immediately.
 
I hear you like review queues, so we added a new review queue Staging Ground for you to review pending reviews.
 
I'm slowly coming to think that the Staging Ground has the chance to reduce answers to duplicate questions
Y'know, I'm not totally opposed to that
I might even like it
 
@blackgreen But at what cost?
 
at the cost of a new review queue :D
 
How would it do that? And how would it do it more effectively than simply closing the questions as duplicates?
 
6:59 AM
closing the questions as duplicates doesn't prevent fast guns from posting some two-liners before I can hammer
 
I'm not even joking. Seems to me that the intention behind SG is for reviewers to walk the question asker through exactly why their question is a duplicate and how to adapt the existing answers to their case. You know, provide useful personalised guidance.
@blackgreen Or after. I hammered a question once pretty fast (within a minute or two) and it still had five answers in the end.
 
mlol
@VLAZ I, for one, am not going to do that specifically. I'm going to do what I'm already doing, i.e. hammer and post a comment explaining how the dupe target applies, when it's not totally obvious
however, no matter how good I am at finding originals (spoiler: very good) some dupes are harder to find, and/or I sleep or actually work some times
 
Again, seems what the intention behind SG is. SE wants the reviewers to engage with the asker and walk them through everything about the question. No provision has been made so far what happens with duplicates. Or questions that are just dead in the water and can never really be posted.
 
"and/or I sleep or actually work some times" I am also having this problem. Please let me know when you find a solution.
 
@CodyGray even forgot to mention "spending time with people IRL" like... spouse&kids
 
7:05 AM
There's an easy solution for that: get your spouse and/or kids to help you hunt down duplicates.
Isn't that why people have kids, after all?
 
They can also help flag spam.
 
mine isn't yet able to operate a computer, unfortunately
beside mashing on the keyboard. which, btw, doesn't produce substantially different outcomes from some posts that we see on this site
but alas, I digress
 
@blackgreen So you're saying they have a promising future career writing Perl?
 
@VLAZ this is a known bug that SE should fix, although I don't know many users who consciously abuse this
 
7:11 AM
Repeated, conscious abuse of it would merit a moderator flag.
 
It's a known poorly-thought-out feature.
 
The real challenge is giving examples of known well-thought-out features.
 
The "Thank you" button? ;)
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (author has retracted vote)
 
 
1 hour later…
9:04 AM
seems way too basic to me, but from what I learned, "basicality" should not matter that much when evaluating a question
 
That's correct.
And its closure is incorrect.
 
^ what Cody said.
 
I just checked for dupes. Unless it's a duplicate of this (I don't think so; that seems to be about applying the arrow operator to a specific argument in a parameter list, not the function itself, although they are certainly related), then it doesn't have any duplicates. That makes it a useful contribution to our knowledge base.
 
@CodyGray it should be the other way around :)
also the syntax from this is no longer valid
now you have to write (AnyObject) -> Void, which resembles more with function declarations, and should be less confusing
but I think we can leave those two question as is
 
9:24 AM
@Cristik if anything, the title could be edited to include some textual description of the operator. I frequently do this in Go questions, for example, because searching punctuation on regular search engines rarely gives acceptable results
Like, what does "->" mean in swift (arrow operator)? or something
as for applicability of duplicate closure, the Qs do look like they're related, but I'm not sure, it's been too long since I wrote Swift code
kinda like the age of those questions
 
sorry for offtop question. How to write 4ft 11in - 5ft 4.9in shortly? 4'11'' or something like that?
 
@entithat Yes, that's correct.
 
@entithat I can't keep myself from asking, though - why have you chosen SOCVR to ask it? :) not like we mind, but it's a bit of an odd choice
 
@entithat I think you're asking how to write the entire range in abbreviated form? That'd be something like: 4' 11"–5' 4.9"
Note spaces and the use of an en-dash.
 
10:16 AM
@CodyGray -1 for the use of \u2013 when a good old fashioned hyphen will suffice.
 
Heck no. Hyphens don't work there. You cannot separate ranges with hyphens.
If you worked there between 2015–16, you need to separate the numbers forming that range with a en-dash.
 
@CodyGray -1 for the use of a hyphen in "en dash" ;-)
 
Ah, wait, really?
 
-1 for using "a" instead of "an" before a vowel
 
Also, today I learned that: (A) it's also called a "nut dash", and (B) it's the name of an Ed Sheeran album.
"h" is not a vowel!
 
10:22 AM
it's a chicken dash!?
 
@CodyGray "e" is though: "forming that range with a en-dash"
 
@tripleee which flag should raise for SD report?
 
@RyanM Argh! Oops. My own typo.
 
@SecretKeeper flag as spam please
 
@SecretKeeper If it's spam, you should flag it as spam. Tripleee's message hinted at that with the tag, but you should really read the post and make your own decision, not just blindly trust the request.
 
10:33 AM
it's just like the other Smokey reports here but I brought it up here manually because it wasn't reported automatically (Smokey does not report posts here which only trigger experimental reasons, i.e. the ones which start with "possibly")
 
Some SD reports are spam, some are rude/abusive, and some are neither (but still may need to be flagged as not-an-answer, in need of closure, etc.).
 
and sorry for telling you how to flag; obviously make up your own mind on whether to flag or not (though in this case there is little doubt in my mind that this is actually spam)
 
10:50 AM
 
11:10 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine cuz this chat is on the top ;D. Thanks guys
 
@entithat huh, makes sense
 
I flagged to close, but the OP thinks they actually have an MRE, should this be reopen-pls? stackoverflow.com/questions/72302470/…
 
11:27 AM
 
11:44 AM
@tripleee I agree with the OP, it looks they have the MRE to me.
 
@StephenOstermiller thanks
 
@CodyGray There are 1-2 of us here that might disagree.
 
@StephenOstermiller All of you are wrong.
 
<-- often wrong, but stubborn
 
11:48 AM
No idea what you're talking about, cannot relate at all :-)
 
lol
← Maybe should learn to embrace Unicode over good old fashioned ASCII
 
Poor use of hyphens in these spams.
 
@StephenOstermiller that looks like your message was moved from another room
 
Just memorize Alt+0150 (for en dash) and Alt+0151 (for em dash). What could be simpler?
 
Morning
 
12:10 PM
@CodyGray Ew
 
stackoverflow.com/a/22811514/2943403 link-only accepted answer?
 
@mickmackusa yes
 
Should anything else happen to the page in the wake of the delete accepted answer?
Label it "fresh meat"?
 
Maybe someone should answer it? It seems like a relatively popular question.
 
12:20 PM
@mickmackusa Ideally, someone would fill in the void with a better answer that doesn't rely on a link.
 
You only need follow that link and include a short citation from it. :-)
 
I can confirm that writing improved summaries of deleted link-only answers is a great way to improve a post.
 
@AdrianMole [I'm] not it. Going to bed. That lady with one eye needs points -- maybe she'll answer it.
 
12:35 PM
Aye.
 
12:54 PM
 
1:31 PM
This one should be on a Meta. But Meta.SO or Meta.SE? (My CV was for Meta.SO because there ain't an option to migrate to Meta.SE.)
 
2:00 PM
 
2:33 PM
@MarcoBonelli re: meta comment, the mod tools aren't big on confirmation dialogs. Many actions take effect immediately, relying on the fact that we can just reverse them by doing the opposite.
 
user17242583
2:44 PM
@Makyen Gotcha. I'm glad I made that comment then, because later I actually decided that it might be a good idea to really do it.
 
@RyanM that makes sense
 
3:11 PM
@richardec I'm glad the moderators went to meta with that. I can understand why they want that rule change. I expected it to be controversial. I'm a bit surprised it is being THAT badly down-voted.
 
Hmm, close to 2:1 in terms of up/down votes
 
i mean
 
user17242583
@StephenOstermiller I'm not surprised in the least. New users are terrible at accepting. If I hadn't posted those comments (and been suspended 3 times in doing so), I wouldn't have so much rep as I do now.
 
Oops, I meant 2:1 down/up votes
 
given it's being presented on SO, where a lot of the people who post such comments reside, and how many recent meta posts surrounding the topic there've been, it's not incredibly unsurprising
I don't want to say never... but i'm pretty sure i didn't post comments like that while i was actively answering
don't need to beg for votes when they come in freely anyway
 
3:15 PM
I know I've posted one or two guiding how users can accept but only explicitly when they asked.
I find begging for votes to be sad
 
user17242583
I find begging for votes dumb, but informing the OP on accepts, especially when they say thanks, is different. In fact, I always did Ryan's proposal (exactly, every bit, including the link).
 
Yeah, that's the problem. The one-offs are common and they don't always beg but remind (there is a difference). But we've had some folks who remind all the time. When we're removing hundreds of comments, there's a problem
Sadly, it's something you only see from the mod seat. It's hard to communicate that in specific terms because there's no tools so you can say something concrete like "X% of comments we removed were due to this"
 
How about when one established user posts a comment suggesting that the OP accepts an answer from another (different) user? I've seen those more than a few times.
 
@richardec To be honest, I'm not a big fan of accepts, either. It's a meaningless checkmark. I don't think it should have any weight. Or probably even exist.
 
{Feel free to star my comment if you think it is a useful contribution!} ;-P
 
3:29 PM
Thanks, I feel so educated now!
 
The rep gained from accepting an answer is also used carrot by these users who post such comments
 
I would certainly like to see rep. from accepts included in the daily cap.
 
The problem with comments educating users that they *CAN accept is that others then copy it and use it as an excuse to literally beg for votes
If you see a comment telling someone what they should do when their question is answered, others believe that this should be done every time an answer is posted.
 
OK, hear me out - what if the question asker never accepts? I'd say it doesn't matter one bit and everybody should be ignoring that green checkmark anyway.
I think the same is true if OP never votes on answers.
It's a knowledge repository for everybody - in the end, it's just one user who has voted or not.
 
remove accepting and retroactively remove all rep gained from accepting
 
3:41 PM
Agreed.
It's also very strange that there is an only option to "accept". If question askers are really supposed to have weight to say what "the best" answer is, then why isn't there a "Reject" to signify something isn't what they want?
 
because that's unwelcoming
 
But if the original askwer wants to give seal of approval to one of the answers they should have the option to do so. They might not have the upvoting privilege yet
 
then they aren't qualified to provide their opinion
that's by design
 
That's another thing - if we are to trust an asker to "approve" something, why not trust them to vote? Maybe for answers to own questions the rep requirement to vote could be lowered to 15 rep or something to prevent abuse but would go a long way into actually treating OP's as having a say.
Not allowing to vote but to only give an accept is weird.
 
Right, and let them have voting rings as much as they want
 
3:44 PM
it's 10
125 for downvoting
right?
 
15 for up
 
15 up / 125 down
 
yeah just make it 1, but only allowed on answers to your own question until 15.
teh logic already exists, that's the system for comments
 
The whole accepting thing is weird. As soon as you start to scrutinise it, it starts to fall apart. The unpinning of the accepted answers has been long overdue but a step in the right direction. If answers are supposed to be ranked by votes, then acceptance has no right to take precedence.
If we are to trust question askers as the ultimate experts, then why vote on answers at all?
 
and if we're worried about people feeling bad about losing rep, just add rep back elsewhere
bump daily cap slightly
eh, no, that only helps the superminority
 
3:50 PM
You are asking for huge changes to the site
 
it'd have to be vote rep, or rep from some other system
 
And why can't question askers then mark an answer as unhelpful? Plenty such answers exist and no official way to say "No, that's wrong". And I mean "official" like a giant green checkmark. If we don't trust question askers to be experts (and we have many such examples), then giving any extra weight to their preference is not really logical, either.
 
these are just number changes
changing a 5 to a 10 is easy
remove accepting and add the reactions menu
 
🐴
 
but it must include 🚽
 
3:53 PM
Or 🤮
 
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
For SQL questions, of course
 
The best part of that whole reactions business was this answer. Ironically, reactions are not as disruptive to Teams as I expected them to be.
 
@VLAZ Haha, for all the tables?
 
i don't understand why any company would want so for teams
 
@GeneralGrievance Yes
 
@KevinB I suspect we'd see a lot more questions that should never be asked/answered remain on the site/not get Roomba'd anymore due to this.
Would be a good experiment to run, though
Or they could just dig into their own site analytics data that I'm sure they have, compile a list of the last 1000 or 10,000 times someone tried to upvote an answer to their own question but couldn't due to lacking a rep, and review those posts to see if they are good/worth upvoting/worth answering in the first place
If the over/under is more than 50% good then it'd be worth turning on, arguably
 
Did I single-handedly start a meta war over asking answers to be accepted? lol
 
no
evidenced by the number of people doing it
has been a problem for many years
 
user17242583
Is there a way to find questions that are soon to be roomba'd? Like in an hour?
 
I think the moderator tools page has a list for some categories
nah
just has things that are close to being closed/deleted/reopened etc
 
4:23 PM
The Roomba is not quite so predictable.
 
@richardec Roomba will not do anything in an hour
it only runs at what, 1AM or 2AM, UTC
 
It is possible though to generate a list of posts that are 1 action away from being roomba'd, but taking action on such posts for that reason is against guidelines
similarly you could generate a search criteria that matches the roomba criteria
 
@richardec The source code from the Forecaster is very helpful for better understanding the process.
 
4:44 PM
@KevinB I don't think it's against any guidelines to take an action in order to make a post eligible for roomba. Any organized effort involving multiple users to do so is not allowed, especially in SOCVR, and especially if it requires multiple downvotes. But individuals are permitted to do that if they want afaik.
 
the important part of my message was "for that reason"
if there's instead a valid reason to, say, downvote it, then yea that's not against any guidelines. it's encouraged
 
If one thinks a post should roomba, surely one would think a downvote is justified.
 
For instance, writing a script that grabs 40 random 1-downvote-away-from-roomba questions and downvoted them all, then running that every day, would surely get you in trouble if anyone ever noticed you doing that.
 
Sorry in advance for the possible vandalism auto-flag. I had some "consider accepting an answer" comments to clean up from when I was a much newer user. =P
 
@RyanM Interesting. Which part of that is the problem exactly? Is it the automation, or the downvoting, or the downvoting for the purpose of roomba, or something else?
 
4:52 PM
@cigien Honestly, not entirely certain what justification would win out. It's definitely voting based on something other than content, which is problematic in itself.
I know staff have reversed vote handed out for various other non-content-based reasons, such as "voting up every post you see without reading them to get badges"
 
This search for example would instantly give you a near endless supply of posts to delete daily via casting a vote: "created:2007..2013 score:0 is:question answers:0 migrated:no"
there's ample evidence they aren't useful,
but the system requires a user to judge it due to having a comment convesation
 
Ah, if it could be proved that one did it without reading the posts, then sure. However, if that isn't the case (i.e. couldn't be proved), I don't see how that violates any rules.
 
I can confirm that, having in the past gone through and downvoted (after reading to confirm they were downvote-worthy) a bunch of Android questions with a query along those lines, a surprising number of them do in fact have conversations with answers in them.
@cigien It is, admittedly, fairly tricky to prove. I don't know how those users were caught. I assume staff detected it somehow.
And if I did know, I probably wouldn't say how they did it :-p
 
Well, if you vote down a 2000 character question every 5 seconds x 40, we can probably be pretty sure you didn't read them very closely.
 
@IanCampbell me, in my head, every time someone claims their votes weren't targeted because "I really thought they were good posts"
Except replace "down" with "up" :-p
 
4:59 PM
@cigien If I were a mod or staff member I would call this abuse of the voting privilege. Especially when applied at scale (automating it to vote on 40 posts per day) it is a big problem because, while you're free to vote or not vote as you wish, votes are supposed to be based on the quality/appropriateness of the post contents.
 
user17242583
Here's a strange question: I want to edit a certain meta post, because it has a (rather glaring) grammatical error in the title. But it's locked, so I can't. Would a modflag be appropriate in such a case?
 
If Roomba only deleted bad questions, then maybe it would be OK to behave that way, but questions that are perfectly fine can also get roomba'd, too.
 
are you sure it's a grammatical error?
 
@richardec First question, does anyone ever see said question? If it's viewed 100s of times per day, maybe.
 
@richardec Yeah, probably. Or, since I'm offering, you could just tell me now.
 
5:00 PM
Certainly there ought to be a rule that you can't downvote or upvote a question without reading it (or explicitly states that voting implies/connotes having read the post), if there isn't already
 
i mean
 
user17242583
@IanCampbell It has 22k views.
 
(in general, don't ping mods to ask for flaggable things, though)
 
user17242583
@RyanM Thank you! :) meta.stackoverflow.com/q/358992/17242583 - , how do I do that? should be ; how do I do that?
 
@KevinB Note I didn't say "read completely and thoroughly", to be clear...
 
5:01 PM
that rule isn't enforceable other than by having devs run a query that cross references whether or not the user has scrolled
 
@KevinB not all rules need to be enforceable in a proactive way. Many rules are CYA rules
 
I'm not sure the comma splice is that disruptive
 
@richardec that's a link to an answer, is that what you meant to link?
 
which... in theory they could prevent voting until you've scrolled, but, lol, that'd be incredibly unpopular
 
Put that in the rules and then you can use it/rely on it as easy/clear justification for someone who you have logs of behaving in a way that, physically, cannot equate to having read all the posts
 
5:02 PM
Oh, the comma splice.
 
user17242583
Yes, sorry, updated the message.
 
How do you post hyperlink images in chat without them creating a thumbnail
 
The devs can probably tell without too much work, for example, if something is done via API vs organically
@MFerguson Upload the image to a post first to get a URL and then past the URL with some text
or edit the chat message immediately after it is posted to insert some text
 
user17242583
@RyanM It's absurdly minor, really, but I wasn't really sure if modflags in such cases are appropriate. I guess they are, because my goal "requires moderator intervention"
 
5:03 PM
I fixed it, but that's the least glaring "glaring" error I've heard of :-p
 
@MFerguson I usually start the post with a period and a space, but at the end works too. You do you.
 
user17242583
@RyanM Yeah, it's not very noticeable to most people probably...but it hurts my eyes quite too much... :P
 
For bonus points, add some witty commentary before or after, it sets up the joke better anyway.
 
@TylerH Yes, if the voting is done without looking at the post, that's a problem. I hadn't realized that's what RyanM meant with the "script" example. I thought it was referring to something more like one of the SOBotics bots that serve up posts meeting some criteria.
 
Yeah I meant a script that just cast votes without human intervention or direction.
 
> This is how to implement Eugen's solution. Please accept his solution as the correct answer, not this one.
I, uh.
 
Yeah, just saw another one like that.
 
5:19 PM
Joke's on them, that's also a great way to get a moderator to delete the entire answer.
 
> and please accept this answer if it fits, I need reputation
 
5:35 PM
@GeneralGrievance the rule suggested (?) by Machavity on Meta makes no mention about recommending other answers be accepted instead of yours
so that should probably be perfectly fine
Likewise I assume it's also still OK even if that rule gets implemented to ask why an OP accepted an answer that is bad/doesn't solve the problem
 
Isn't it still Meta-commentary though?
 
Sure, you can probably still flag such a comment as NLN, especially if an answer is already accepted by the time you read it
but it wouldn't be a 'hard rule violation', per se
@TylerH I have encountered old questions before where OP commented "this doesn't work because of _" but then I see they accepted the answer... and the answer was never even edited to address OP's comment
Sometimes I'm like "Hey OP why did you accept this if it doesn't answer your question? Did you find out that it does actually answer it or something?" and usually silence follows, but sometimes I get a "oh I don't remember..." -- even worse, they took the time to respond and say they don't know why but don't bother unaccepted... facepalm
 
Oh, I see. That search query was to highlight such commentary in answers, though.
 
should be all the evidence anyone needs to know that "the system" doesn't do anything in terms of informing users how to accurately/appropriately accept :-)
@GeneralGrievance If I see such commentary in a comment, I flag as NLN; if I see it in an answer, I edit it out.
 
Yup, already on it.
 
5:42 PM
I don't think it's worth worrying about beyond that, tbh. As a user or a mod. The proposed rule on Meta seems to miss the forest for the trees in terms of ignoring the large nuance, for example, between a situation where an OP says "thanks, this worked" or even engages in a back and forth with an answer which results in a more improved/accurate answer, but never accepts... and a situation where OP posts an answer and includes or immediately adds a comment saying "if this helped pls accept"
 
user17242583
I just watched a user get suspended. Interesting.
 
Yeah, that'll happen when someone decides to delete and/or otherwise destroy all their answers...
 
Why is self-vandalism so often done to "destroy" answers?
Is it because they can't otherwise delete it because of upvotes/accepts?
 
When they are accepted (there's a way out if it's a self-answer) or the user is unregistered, the can't delete it
 
user17242583
@RyanM you'd better check, they might've deleted some of their answers nm, I see you've undeleted some
 
5:51 PM
Likewise if they are upvoted IIRC they can't self-delete
in general, once another user has interacted with it to indicate that it is good/worthwhile content, an author can no longer unilaterally remove said content
 
I don't think an upvote prevents deletion of an answer
 
Oh? Even 2+?
I know accepts block it but I thought sufficient upvotes did as well
 
@JeanneDark for 20k users it can. Answers have to have a negative score to be deleted
 
See the FAQ, only acceptance and being unregistered block self-deletion
 
@Machavity we're talking about self-deletion here though
 
5:53 PM
Ah. Pay me no mind then
 
user17242583
Here's to clear your doubt: stackoverflow.com/a/69950463/17242583 (11-score 0-downvote non-accepted answer self-deleted)
 
user17242583
Is there a particular reason why spam account aren't nuked along with their first spam post?
 
@richardec we're trying to be more welcoming
...I kid. We're leaving some of the accounts to help CMs analyze potential proactive spam-blocking strategies.
 
user17242583
@RyanM Ohhh. I was wondering for a while.
 
6:05 PM
Instead of deleting them, let them keep posting and keep thinking that people can see the posts. But in reality, to the rest of us, it's like they're gone.
 
user17242583
@RyanM for my own education: why didn't you delete this when, as you said, it's a repost of a previous worthless question deleted by Machavity?
 
6:51 PM
btw, it seems meagar is back
 
Do people think there's no repercussions for posting gibberish text or something?
 
I mean, were there any repercussions for them?
 
People probably are not worried about repercussions when they post gibberish text
 
frustration can lead to questionable actions
 
6:55 PM
Well there aren't if people delete vote it instead of letting Community handle the penalty...
 
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