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5:00 AM
@AdrianMole Posts are usually enqueues in both queued at the same time.
 
The article also explicitly links to the other Help Center article on what the reasons are for closure.
 
@CodyGray Hmm.. for some, yes. Not for regex Questions. Then it's a close reason.
 
I guess if it's unclear what language/toolchain they're targeting, then yes. But that's quite a stretch...
 
Not normally an issue, until/unless I'm running low on my daily CV quota. Then, perhaps I should just stop doing FP reviews. (Basically - I'm thinking it's wrong to use a down-vote in lieu of a close vote, I suppose.)
 
@CodyGray I'm not sure that's essential. If the question is poor, it will get closed, and if the answers that arrive in the interim don't have value, the post can get deleted. The issue for me is that I have very few CVs per day, and I see way more posts than I can take actions on. I don't know how long you've been a mod, but maybe that's biasing your view a bit? I just feel bad wasting a CV on a question that I think could be improved, and then not be able to CV on garbage.
 
5:03 AM
@cigien I've been closing questions way longer than I've been a mod.
No, it's absolutely essential to get the question closed before answers roll in.
 
@AdrianMole In first posts, you're the only reviewer. If it needs closing, then no, a downvote is not enough.
In Triage, it gets you suspended ;)
 
If not, you end up with a bunch of answers that will be invalidated once the question is tweaked to be compliant, and nobody but moderators can remove those answers. That doesn't work. It effectively prevents the question from ever being salvaged, because you can't reword the question to comply without invalidating the existing answers.
 
@Scratte Which I what I think, and why I was asking if my downvote sends it to Triage.
 
Even if the question is never re-opened and completely unsalvageable, having answers is bad, because it prevents the Q&A from being automatically removed.
 
@Scratte Triage doesn't have down-vote and "I'm Done" options.
 
5:05 AM
@CodyGray I do that too. I hold off when it's just a minor thing. Mostly because I know that getting a post reopened is a lot harder than it should be.
@AdrianMole I'm almost sure that it doesn't.
@CodyGray Only if the Answers are upvoted or has an accepted one.
And I see a lot of closed posts. A lot have 0-scored answers on them with no accept.
 
Note that if you can yourself fix the problems with the post, then you should do that instead of voting to close. Then, there's no reason to vote to close.
 
@CodyGray Some times it's just "values greater than or smaller than?"
 
@CodyGray Those are all valid points. But is what I'm saying not have merit at all? If I followed your strict definition, I'd be out of CVs within an hour of waking up. And several of those posts would be edited into shape, and of those that receive answers, many wouldn't be invalidated. Also, in my experience, answerers in the C++ tag are pretty chill about editing their answers if the question is edited, and are pretty chilled out about having their post edited by others (only SMEs of course).
 
@Scratte ?
 
So my basic strategy of late has been to get as many FP reviews done (40/day), so that I can at least offer a close vote on new questions, to get them into the CV queue, where others can 'finish the job'. This generally leaves me with less than 40 CVs remaining, so I can't then 'complete' my daily CV queue quota. That, in itself, doesn't bother me - I'm just looking for how I can best use my quotas for site curation. More CVs would help, of course.
 
5:09 AM
@CodyGray A clarifying question that cannot be edited in :)
 
@CodyGray Yes, those cases are fine. If I can edit it, I do that. I'm talking about when the OP needs to make changes.
 
I'm still confused, but... if it's unclear whether someone wants values greater than or smaller than, then you need to close the question until such time as it's clarified.
Ah, basically... when you're out of close votes, the site is telling you that you've done enough for the day. Just like when you run out of other votes.
 
@AdrianMole Don't use 40 close votes in the First Posts queue? Consider not skipping all the fine ones and skip some of the others instead.
 
I am perpetually uncomfortable with everyone trying to work around the system...
 
@CodyGray If everyone would not do it and the system worked well for re-opening posts, then there'd be no need to.
 
5:13 AM
The system works very well for re-opening posts.
It's just that not everyone agrees that the post needs to be re-opened.
 
@Scratte I seldom (if ever) have use up 40 CVs in FP. But if I do 40 reviews, I'm likely to cast 20 CVs. That leaves me 30 per day. Generally, 40 CV reviews will eat more than that. So I very rarely get to do the full 40 for both FP and CV queues. In the past few days, I've taken a break from FP, as that's the one I find quite tiring.
 
@CodyGray That's what I mean.. we also do not agree when they should be closed. For me that's not a system that works very well.
 
So, when you say "the system", you mean "other people".
 
We're all part of the system, no?
 
5:15 AM
In fact, it would be impossible to spend 40 CVs in FP, without skipping audits.
 
I've gone back for audits in that queue :D
 
@CodyGray Again, do you think that has something to do with the fact that you are not constrained by the system yourself? To be clear, I actually agree with a lot of your ideas in principle, and if I had your powers I would do certain things differently. But given that having system constraints is a good thing, and I have to live within those constraints, living up to some of those ideals is simply not an efficient use of the resources I do have.
 
@cigien No. The system constrains moderator actions, too, and I was equally uncomfortable with people subverting the system for their own ends before I was elected as a moderator.
 
Did you have a gold hammer before your diamond? Or did that whole idea arrive later?
 
I honestly can't remember. I think I did.
 
5:18 AM
@CodyGray Fair enough. Before you were a mod, did you ever feel like it was justified to subvert the system, even if it made you uncomfortable?
 
When hammers were introduced, I earned hammers in a bunch of tech I no longer used and didn't follow.
@cigien On occasion. Not as a matter of course.
 
But that's just silly, Cody. What you say is that it's fine to not use a close vote on a horrible post depending on what time of day you see it :D If you see almost fine posts early in the day, then all the votes needs to go there. And later on you can just smile and look at the horrible ones.
 
@Scratte Well, yeah. I mean, that's what the system is telling you. I think that's kind of silly, but you literally cannot vote to close such posts, so... you can't.
That's 90% of why I ran for moderator: I was frustrated with that.
I could only spend < 30 minutes looking at the site every day. After that, I was out of close votes.
Most days, it wasn't anywhere close to half an hour. And in those days, I had quite a bit more time to devote to the site.
 
@Scratte Well, there's a chatroom somewhere you can go to if you've run out of CVs. I'll see if I can find a link ...
 
@Zoe @Yatin A userscript for this (hiding deleted answers) already exists.. github.com/samliew/SO-mod-userscripts/blob/master/…
 
5:21 AM
@AdrianMole I think the latest one I posted here was not closed. Despite it being almost the exact duplicate of another post.
 
@SamuelLiew It doesn't look like it says anywhere in the description that that script hides deleted answers on Q&A pages.
 
@CodyGray Ok, I'm going to subvert the system in the case of "closing posts immediately", for the reasons that I've listed above. I don't make rule subversion a habit, but when I do, I'm explicit about it, and why I'm doing it.
 
@Scratte Ugh. We're going to do this again? You remember one example where a thing didn't work for you, so you give up on it forever? "One time, I tried to put food in my mouth, but the food fell down into my lap, missing my mouth, so I've just stopped trying to eat because it's too messy."
@cigien So... how do you decide when a post needs to be closed immediately and when you can wait?
 
@cigien If you mean using your hammer on questions that aren't dupes, just because you feel it needs immediate closure ... then that's a slippery slope. If you want to do that sort of stuff, then take Cody's approach and run in a Moderator Election.
 
It's a slippery slope to a suspension if it ever comes across my radar. Note that mods don't have a way to take away close-vote privileges, so if we decide that's required, the whole account must be suspended.
We already did and starred the whole, "Closed as duplicate of RTFM is not OK"
 
5:27 AM
Indeed!
 
I see you've taken Scratte's approach to Noun Capitalization.
 
Sometimes.
 
@CodyGray Good question. Here's the rough system I follow: if a post should be closed, but looks salvageable, I'll ask the OP for clarification. If the OP responds with a good edit within 5 mins, I'll ask again, and this time I'll wait longer. If the OP responds again, I'll wait even longer. By this point, either it's clear that the OP doesn't really have an answerable question, in which case I CV, or the post is fine. If at any of the previous stages, the OP is unresponsive, I CV.
 
@CodyGray Hmm.. I'm feeling hungry now :) But yes, that's generally the way it goes. I just remember those very clearly and it makes me more reluctant to try again.
 
@cigien I've never had the patience to wait for someone to respond. And usually am not interested in that level of hand-holding.
 
5:28 AM
@AdrianMole No, I'm saying the opposite. I want to wait to close some close-worthy posts, while Cody's arguing I should close them immediately.
 
@Scratte I imagine it must be very hard for you to learn new skills, then. Since learning is all about failing repeatedly, in different ways.
 
@CodyGray That's completely different.. I can fail and retry it differently.
 
@CodyGray That's completely reasonable. I on the other hand, feel completely differently. I enjoy hand-holding when the OP is responsive, and I try my best to address an OP's responses to feedback. It gives me as much joy as answering questions.
 
I don't try the same exact thing.. that's my point :)
 
@Scratte As you could with everything, including things on this site.
@cigien I was so annoyed the day that comment replies were announced. Still don't like them.
 
5:33 AM
@cigien I just hope that feeling doesn't wear off or become jaded. It seems to have done so with some of the site's Veterans.
 
@cigien If you do it the way Cody says, you'd have to retract your vote. And now it's really wasted.
 
@AdrianMole I'm not sure about that. Most of us veterans never wanted that. That's why we joined a Q&A site, rather than a chat room...
A big part of the appeal of this site was that it didn't do conversations or any sort of back-and-forth.
You answered, and then you moved on. That was it, the extent of your interactions with the whole thing.
 
@CodyGray There's less options than fiddling with a regex in my own code.
 
I get that. But the site has evolved. That's inevitable with such a successful site. I also get that there's a caucus that doesn't like or want that evolution.
 
@Scratte Pretty sure there's nothing in the world with more options than fiddling with a regex, so that's kind of an unfair comparison.
@AdrianMole Evolution in a harmful direction, or at least one that gets away from the motivating spirit of the site, seems like a bad thing to me. Not sure if that earns me membership in the caucus.
 
5:35 AM
@AdrianMole I hope so too. I'm aware that I could get burned out, and I have tightened up my expectations of what I expect from OPs already. It's good advice, thanks.
@CodyGray What are comment replies?
 
@cigien Where you can add ugly ornamentation like "@cigien" to a comment, thus landing that comment in another user's inbox. See also the FAQ.
 
@CodyGray There are: How many different ways can you make bread? :) Just because one recipe doesn't work out, doesn't mean another won't. But.. if there are only 10 in total and they all take 4 days to see a result on and I've seen a bad result on 5-6.. then I start to wonder if maybe I shouldn't just move on and make soup.
 
@Scratte You think there are more ways to make bread than there are to write a regex??
(How can you eat soup without bread?)
 
@CodyGray Oh, I see. I disagree of course. In fact, I want to be more easily contactable, and was upset when I realized recently that I don't get pinged on posts I close, unless I was the sole closer.
 
@CodyGray I put in my mouth and swallow :)
 
5:39 AM
@Scratte But what comes next? For the part where you eat the bread?
@cigien You might prefer a chat room or a tutorial site to a Q&A site.
 
@cigien You can always leave a comment. That makes you pingable and as a plus: More cleanup for Cody ;)
@CodyGray I don't eat bread with soup.. I may eat some after, but normally not during.
 
Beware that the more comments there are on a post, the less likely it is to ever get re-opened.
Extended discussion is a red flag to reopen reviewers.
 
@CodyGray No, I definitely prefer Q&A sites. The hand-holding, and chatting with users in comments is just to have more questions to answer, and so that everyone has a less frustrating time than they would otherwise. Is that so bad?
 
We've got plenty of questions to answer, even without chit-chat...
 
@Scratte Yes, I've started doing that on posts where there's any chance that I took the wrong action.
 
5:44 AM
I find the chit-chat and comments to be inherently frustrating. I just want content. Not a social network.
 
@CodyGray That's unfortunate. Because to me it means things were clarified. I always read them.
 
An edit means things were clarified.
 
@CodyGray Ah, then you shouldn't participate in new posts. The bad ones will get closed, and the ones that can be salvaged will benefit from the hand-holding. The comments will get cleaned up, and future visitors will see the final result, which is just content.
 
Comments means that it took pulling teeth to make that clarification happen, which is antithetical to a Q&A site.
 
@CodyGray Yes, of course.. after the discussion.
 
5:46 AM
@cigien Yes, I preferred answering old questions when I took the time to answer questions.
 
@CodyGray You know this is chatting, right?
 
I do it under protest.
 
@CodyGray Some times the author isn't even in the comments. It's just other users talking about possible solutions.
 
@Scratte Worse. That's evidence that the question is too broad and leads to discussions, rather than answers.
 
@CodyGray Exactly. There are different ways people like to contribute to the site. So long as the hand holding, and chit-chat doesn't get in the way of good content being generated, what's the problem?
 
5:49 AM
@CodyGray No. It starts with a quick proposal and then others explaining how that isn't going to do it ;)
Sometimes the result ends up as an Answer. My last one was a summary of comments and a tiny bit added in myself.
 
@cigien It does, though, do precisely that.
 
@CodyGray I'm not convinced it does. Except when it's "But now I have this other error instead. How do I fix that?"
 
@CodyGray How many fresh posts do you participate in? And I mean interact with the OP, not just close/delete the post? My guess is not that many. I do a lot of that everyday, you can check my profile if you want, and there are many posts that I have personally salvaged by interacting with the OP. Posts that have gone on to receive good answers. Posts that would have likely died without some user interaction. I'd be happy to start compiling a list of these if you'd like.
 
@CodyGray My source?! Well, I'd start by saying that 802.11 certainly shouldn't be called a "protocol" (for networking guys that's like calling a ship a boat is for the navy guys). Reason being "protocol" is reserved for certain parts of the OSI layer 2-5. So what's the correct name? Afaik 802.11 is a "standard" with its bulk at layers 2 and 3 (but it's been over 15 years since I actually looked into this)...
 
5:57 AM
@cigien Today? Very, very few. In past years? Frequently. Like, dozens per day.
I tried very hard to avoid interacting with anyone through means other than editing and answering, though.
 
@CodyGray then "over the wire" yeah...I recall that if you're transmitting over a wire with 2 wifi end points the packet might get a special treatment in between (depending...) And that does make some sense. But I couldn't go into specifics, and I honestly can't spare the time right now to look into it.
 
How does this 802.11 protocol works?
 
Wikipedia needs an edit, then. The first sentence of the article says 802.11 is a protocol: "IEEE 802.11 is part of the IEEE 802 set of local area network (LAN) protocols..."
I'll avoid mentioning the rest of the Internet, which we all already know needs an edit.
 
An edit is pending ...
 
@CodyGray Exaclty. You asked a sincere question earlier, and I suspect you might have provided a partial answer yourself.
You're probably not going to like this, but a solution to that problem is likely to involve accepting that some form of hand-holding is acceptable. IMO, if that's a direction the site evolves in, I'm comfortable with it. I sincerely think that hand-holding not only doesn't detract from, but actively benefits the content on the site.
And I understand that not all users are going to want to participate in that way, and nor should they. But to claim that everyone who does that is actively harming the site, is going too far, I think.
 
6:03 AM
..I just found the window keyboard shortcut to emojis. 🎄🎅
@cigien I've done a lot of it. Some times it works out very well :)
 
@Scratte See, and you worry you have no impact :p
 
@cigien We tried that. Multiple times, in multiple forms. It never worked.
I'm far more uncomfortable asking a question here if it's going to mean a bunch of people trying to hold my hand and get into a discussion with me. I just wanted an answer, not a bunch of comments. :-(
 
As a relative newcomer to the site (well, compared to oldies like Cody and rene), I also share the views of cigien and Scratte (even newer than I, both of them). The fact that some of us are happy to do a bit of 1-2-1 with users doesn't necessarily harm the site in terms of its original model. Just so long as such interaction doesn't become the expected norm - which is what I think is feared by some of the traditionalists.
 
@CodyGray But you're missing the point Cody. I'm absolutely empathetic to that. chit-chat annoys me a lot, my activity in this room notwithstanding ;) but we've agreed already, on more than one occasion, that you and I are weird. Your question is, how do we make the experience less unpleasant for the vast majority of users? What does your, or my preference have to do with it?
 
@cigien I forgot mention that most of the time it doesn't work out. I think users are sometimes hit like they ran into a wall when they realize the amount of pages there are in the help center.
 
Ah, thanks. Was looking for that.
 
yw
 
@CodyGray That was a little different than what we're talking about here. That was forcing users to be vetted before being able to post.
 
Got distracted by looking for a discussion I remember from a CM about what metric most strongly correlated to user retention. Got a link to that one, perchance?
 
6:16 AM
Do we need mere mentors or more mental mentors?
 
@Scratte That's an easier sell to me than what you're advocating. :-)
At least it would reduce the volume of low-quality questions that get posted.
 
But we're now back to the "victim of its own success" argument.
 
@CodyGray what metric is that?
 
@CodyGray And if no one participates in the hand holding, we can also dispatch with all the review queues :D
 
@bad_coder If I could remember the answer, I wouldn't need to look for the discussion :-)
 
6:22 AM
@CodyGray I suppose it's this one
 
No, I don't think so. That's talking about veteran users, not what increased retention of new users.
 
@CodyGray Yeah, that particular proposal certainly has serious issues.
@rene That's fascinating, thanks for the link. It'll take me some to go through all that, there's a lot to unpack.
 
@CodyGray Shog9 never said something useful about retention, or I can't find it.
 
@rene I know it was mentioned by a CM whom I trust and respect, but it's entirely possible that it was in a non-public channel.
 
@CodyGray This one?
 
6:31 AM
If we mention him 3 times he will show up, right?
 
Ah, that's close, yes.
@rene I think that script got turned off
 
So many good things got turned off
 
@RyanM Hmm, that 3rd last paragraph is what I'm suggesting. If Shog9 agrees, i must be right, correct? ;)
 
@cigien I think.. you agree with Shog9 ;) I'm guessing you mean "Patiently explain why. Answer questions, ask for feedback"
 
@Scratte True. And yes.
 
6:38 AM
I never ask for feedback after I've answered a post though. But I'm not sure Shog9 meant it in that order.
 
@CodyGray To clarify, I'm not suggesting that we introduce, or modify any policy. At least, I don't have any clue what that would look like. I'm just pushing back against your claim that any interaction with the OP is actively harmful to the site and the content, when my personal experience says quite the opposite.
 
I didn't exactly say that...
I did say it's a red flag (perhaps "question smell" would be better, since we already have a specific meaning for "red flags" around here) when extended discussion is required or even occurs in the comments.
I also said that I think it is antithetical to the intended function of a Q&A site to engage in extended discussions with the asker, and that when that's done as a matter of course, something is going badly wrong.
 
But entering a short discussion with a new poster about how and why they should edit/improve their post is one thing; a discussion about the actual question, or possible solutions, is something different. I think it's the latter that Cody (and others) don't like and the former that Shog9 was recommending.
 
@CodyGray Yes, but didn't this discussion start with the recognition that something is going badly wrong? If we don't have a clear way of solving the underlying problem, and it seems that concrete suggestions have not been forthcoming, mitigating the problem by engaging with the asker is not the worst thing IMO. And yes, in an ideal world, a Q&A site would not need that, but we're in the world we are, and we have to deal with it.
 
@CodyGray Users don't understand what they need to do to improve their posts. Sometimes I even don't know what to do to make a post fine (keep it from being close voted definition of fine), like the keyboard shortcut one. Discussion helps with that. It's a learning curve. Without the back and forth, there's no learning.
 
7:20 AM
Is this a poor audit? (I passed, BTW.) @TylerH would appear to think so, from the comment made.
 
I thought posts with down-votes weren't selected as audits.
 
I'm not sure. Posts with close votes shouldn't be ... maybe I'll vote to close, if that would kill it as an audit (it's been used quite a lot - look at the timeline).
But it's General Computing, IMHO. Off-topic.
 
Yeah, doesn't look like programming to me.
 
WOW! The SOCVR Effect kicked in quickly! :)
 
Ha, I was just about to cast a CV myself :p
 
7:25 AM
Such awesome power! We should put it in bottles and sell it.
 
That's cool, I didn't know timelines showed if a post is used as an audit.
 
Check some of your answers - I've had at least one of them as an audit.
 
@AdrianMole Would that be reasonable on SU? It looks well-posed and is within the time limit for migration.
 
That's true, and at least 2 of my questions have been used as well. I'll check it out, that should be fun.
 
@RyanM I was going to suggest migration as a CV reason - but: (a) I was too late; and (b) I'm not sure how that works for SU or SF.
 
7:31 AM
At this point it'd need either a mod flag or a friendly lurking moderator. I'm not a super user participant so I'm not 100% sure, but it looks like a good candidate to preserve the useful info in a place where it wouldn't be closed.
 
@cigien They also wrote "Not sure it matters if you pick a different reason". I don't really see how they disagreed with me. A cv-pls request is just a request: Someone posts comes and says "Please have a look at this question, I think it should be closed for reason X". What matters is not so much whether they voted to close at all or differently but whether the question should be closed and if the reason fits. And people who consider acting upon it will form their own opinion.
@CodyGray Thanks for all the info! I didn't want to sound too whiny. Lately, my few custom flags have been handled pretty quickly (they were about undisclosed affiliation), so when this one took so long I was a bit worried.
 
@AdrianMole Did you... by chance have that tab open since Nov 19th?
@RyanM A comment suggests it's already been asked and answered on SU, otherwise I'd migrate.
 
@CodyGray No chance. I first saw it "18 minutes ago." But the timeline for audits does seem a bit screwball. See that one I raised on Meta, for example.
 
@JeanneDark I didn't say anyone was disagreeing with you. I was disagreeing with you, and using what other's said as evidence. I still feel user's close reasons should match their request reasons, but since there's no real enforcement of it, I'm not too concerned.
 
This is link-only and therefore NAA/VLQ, isn't it? Just a bit surprised that it's been there for 11 hours already. Am I missing something?
 
7:38 AM
@AdrianMole That's weird. I don't know if you can see what I see on the timeline, but... based on what I see, the post was selected as an audit on Nov 19th and then you passed the audit 19 minutes ago.
@JeanneDark Yes.
If that timeline holds true, then it makes sense. The post had no downvotes on Nov 19th, which explains why it was selected as an audit for Adrian and many others. However, if the audit were selected less than an hour ago, then something does not make sense, as the post definitely had downvotes then, and downvotes should make something ineligible for an audit.
 
@CodyGray Yep - I see the same thing. It's a feature bug left behind by "He-Who-Wrote-The-Timeline" thingy.
 
Oh, is that a bug in a certain... browser add-on?
No. I still see it even with certain style modifiers disabled.
 
I'm pretty sure it's not browser- or add-on specific. Others confirmed in the Meta post.
 
Is this the previous Meta post where you reported a bug about your repeated tendency to fail audits? :-)
 
No. Not that one! ;-) The one where the audit system failed my inspection.
 
7:49 AM
@AmitJoshi What is the reason for deleting this question? It does looks vague but a lot of users found it helpful apparently
 
@desertnaut You mean Needs Focus, right?
 
@cigien damn, wrong link (pls ignore)
 
@AmitJoshi The question looks like No Repro.
 
8:07 AM
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, upon request
@AmitJoshi Is the answer that appears on that question also found on the duplicate? I don't see it there.
 
@CodyGray No. The question and the answer both are very common (execute SP/inline sql with Dapper) on tag. They are discussed in many (open) questions apart from duplicate target. Looking at view count (and title), the question is also not serving as good sign post. So, IMO, this is unnecessary duplicate.
 
8:57 AM
I flagged this answer as NAA but is this more sinister? I'm somewhat unsure because of that link.
 
@JeanneDark that is spam
 
Thanks!
 
9:16 AM
is this question off-topic? doesn't seem to be about programming to me
 
@rene when rene spot spam , community delete that :)
 
@Ruli it looks more like a server fault question to me
 
@Shree rene is to spam what Van Helsing is to vampires. :)
 
@Nick thought, never brought up such post, is moving to other site for cv-pls or flag-pls?
 
@Ruli there's a close reason - server or network admin - which suggests asking on server fault.
 
9:31 AM
@Nick I see you (or somebody) have already solved this, will know for future similar posts, thanks :)
 
.oO(can you have a hamburger menu on a health food site?)
 
@tripleee might need a warning: Watch out for the Pavlov effect
 
It's probably just a vegan burger menu.
 
10:06 AM
Hi I am 10k now
 
Congratulations!
 
Thanks
I did nothing since passing like 6k or something and my rep floated on its own
 
@Unihedron you'll be so happy now that you can see the first question
 
ctrl+think
It was worth the journey
 
10:32 AM
@MrUpsidown You link to an answer and the question is almost 10 years old with no new activity.
 
what does luncheon meat mean
 
possible spam
 
@Unihedron See the FAQ
 
it literally means spam, but the filter checks for giberrish string at the end of the post
 
10:44 AM
@MrUpsidown That is very old question; no recent activity....
 
No idea what I did... that wasn't the one I wanted to close sorry
 
@MrUpsidown May be you was reading the post "upside down"? :)
 
@rene I hadn't seen that before - somehow it never occurred to me to go look for it - now my life is complete! :)
 
@AmitJoshi that might well be yes ;)
 
10:58 AM
@Nick glad I contributed to that.
 
oldest surviving post is #4 stackoverflow.com/questions/4/…
answered 8 hours ago!
 
26 deleted answers, impressive!
 
@tripleee That question is community wiki; and the answers are not. I always thought if the question is CW, answers automatically become CW as well...
 
@Dharman actually just a typo
 
@Nick Then what does it have to do with Python?
 
11:08 AM
@Dharman beats me, perhaps that's something in the SQL file the link points to. But OPs problem is that their code always dies, and that's because they always execute die.
 
yeah, but without the die the code doesn't do anything at all
Note the <? also. The OP is not even asking about PHP code at all. The question is completely unclear to me
 
What do we do with suggested edits where the edit comment is in russian? The edit itself is valid.
 
@Dharman you're grumbling about the missing php after <?? If the <? wasn't there you'd have been quite happy to recognise it as PHP. and the python-requests tag is because they couldn't find one called song-requests "the tag it says python requests but its not its song requests". As for not doing anything, perhaps its just their connect.php that they include elsewhere. Regardless, it is an MRE for the error OP is getting.
 
11:27 AM
 
@janw Nevermind, I approved & mod flagged
 
11:38 AM
Do spam edit rejections raise an automatic flag?
 
@janw I doubt it
at best they feed spamram
 
that domain was visible in another spam incident yesterday
 
@janw I asked this in CharcoalHQ a while ago, and the answer was "No!"
@janw Mod flagged just for a Russian edit comment? That looks destined for rejection, I would think. I've seen some comments that are far more bizarre than just in a foreign language: so long as they aren't obviously abusive, I just leave them be.
... typical comments are things like, "faxed spilling" and "edited answer".
 
11:57 AM
@bad_coder It more looks like a resource request...
 
@AmitJoshi It looks like it, but if "user requirements" was something concrete the question could be close to acceptable.
 
@AdrianMole It was more than one. I would have pinged them myself, but wasn't sure how...
 
@CodyGray I had already requested that my cv-pls request be removed when you posted this
 
@janw Hmm. You could 'improve' the edit (or one of them) trivially, which would allow you to add something of your own to the comment (assuming it was an otherwise good edit). Or something similar for a bad edit.
 
@AdrianMole I did exactly that :) (fix something else and create a more meaningful comment)
 
12:03 PM
So what would you want the moderator who handles your flag to do?
 
Ping them somewhere and remind them that SO is an english-only site. It didn't feel right to do that myself under a random post of them.
 
OK - I guess that's your prerogative. But remember that the mods are generally very lazy busy folks!
 
I know I know ;)
I may have asked on meta how to handle this, but last time I did something like that, it caused a hell of a meta effect and the referenced question got 20 downvotes...
Also I can't find my pitchfork
 
12:28 PM
@AmitJoshi yeah you're probably right that I should have picked a different reason. But I actually wanted to see if the question developed into something more concrete...
 
12:47 PM
 
1:00 PM
Morning
 
That spam question reported by SD (now removed) received an upvote...
 
Not according to my investigations. The vote count is 8 down, 0 up.
 
@AdrianMole I saw the account as having rep so I became curious and it had received an upvote first (maybe it was later removed, still in the grace period?)
 
Possibly a mis-click?
 
Hello! I have a question: When a comment calls another user "stranger" out of nowhere, like It's still not working, stranger., should it be flagged as Unfriendly or Unkind?
 
1:49 PM
Yeah, initially it had a score of 1
 
@AnnZen Working on the assumption of "best intention" ... probably not.
 
Imagine everyone adding the word "stranger" into their comment.
 
Technically, we are strangers, aren't we?
 
@AnnZen sounds like a potential language barrier. People call each other "sir" and "bro" all the time
 
There are few stranger than those who hang in SOCVR!
 
1:52 PM
Unless there's any other sign you shouldn't assume it's hurtful
 
'stranger' in that comment was used in a friendly way, strangely...
 
strangerly
 
strangelier
 
Assume best intentions, unless they call someone "Sir stranger bro"
 
Faces come out of the rain, when you're strange!
 
1:55 PM
@JeanneDark And here I thought we were on a first name basis with you :P
 
everyone's on first pseudonym basis here
 
@Machavity I meant we are just strangers on the main site, but not in SOCVR which is like a big family
 
Now you're just being creepy.
 
Not before a group hug
 
Okay. This happened to me 4 months ago. I was helping another user through a thread of comments, and suddenly being hit with "stranger" by that user didn't feel right.
 
1:57 PM
Be careful hugging rene. Some cacti have flowers too...
 
@AnnZen after 4 months the comment is probably no longer needed anyway...
 
I thought Magisch was the cactus
 
@Machavity Might be a flesh-eating plant also
 
After helping them out they deleted their post. Go figure.
 
@AnnZen If it's a one-off comment, I wouldn't worry about it. One UU flag isn't the same as a post red flag either. If you're not sure, NLN will almost always get rid of it
 
2:00 PM
@Vega Yes! And a campfire on the beach :)
 
Okay, will do. Bye!
 
@Catija Magisch + rene = a prickly pear pair?
 
What happened to "Every stranger is just a friend you haven't met yet."? Is "ESIJAFYHMY" the abbreviation? :D
2
 
2000: Don't talk to strangers on the Internet. Don't accept rides from them either. 2020: Summon strangers from the Internet to give you a ride
7
 
@tripleee It looks like this question can be edited
As long as questions about bash scripting in general are on-topic?
 
2:06 PM
it's still "please link me to an off-site resource which fulfills these requirements" (and I can say with some confidence that the only likely answer is "no, nobody has written anything like that")
now it's "please write this code for me" so still not acceptable
 
@AdrianMole :D
 
Hmm, not sure it should be closed...for me, "please write this code" may be a downvote reason
But I'm not a bash expert, it was just my first intuition when looking at this question.
 
@janw there is a rule about not altering OP's intent with an edit
which is exactly what you have done, in order to "save" the question
 
@desertnaut I know this rule, but I don't think this conflicts with their intent. But maybe I have misunderstood their question? They are looking for a way to run "watch" with a cron-style schedule.
 
2:22 PM
@janw dunno, but it's clear that you may have altered their intent. It would be safer to ask first
 
@desertnaut Oh ok, IMO it was just unfortunate wording that made it look like a recommendation question. But I see where you are coming from. I will leave a comment, telling them that they may rollback if don't like my edit.
 
@janw cool
as I said, you may be right, but it's far from clear
 
2:51 PM
@tripleee OP confirmed the edit. Looks on-topic now. Can you review please?
 
@cigien still dubious IMHO; even now it's a thinly masqueraded request for a tool
 
@tripleee Hmm, as currently worded it looks like a how-to question. It seems quite clear what the OP wants.
 
Can an RO review if this request counts as recent activity, and trash the request if not?
 
@AdrianMole Yes
An example of the problems with automatically-selected audit questions
 
Thanks - I had my entire life on hold, waiting for your reply! xD
 
@TylerH I thought the audit selection process was not publicly known.
 
@TylerH So, what can we have instead? An audit selection committee? Maybe Audit Review Selection Expert Sessions would have an appropriate acronym?
2
 
3:36 PM
@cigien It seems to be known at least that they are selected automatically.
 
@JeanneDark Ah, perfect. Thanks for the link.
 
@cigien I don't know about specific criteria being known for audits, but it's common knowledge that they are automatically selected
@AdrianMole mods should select them, frankly
 
@TylerH Oh. I was clueless about this. Thanks.
 
@TylerH Depending on the mods, I would imagine they would be much trickier, then. Devious, even.
 
@AdrianMole eh, not if the mods adhere to the principle of 'this shouldn't trip up people paying a reasonable amount of attention'
 
3:40 PM
Define "reasonable."
 
I'm happy to volunteer to review all audit selections in exchange for 1 extra close vote per selection made, of course :-)
 
I'd pick them. All posts with trigger words, howto question, posts that looks off-topic if one just does a quick scan. Lets get those robo-reviewers :D Ohh.. and an image of code where the code is also in the post, but image showing highlighing.
 
We could have a Review Audit Review Queue (available at, say, 15K). It would go something like: This post has been proposed as an audit for the XXX queue. Click one of "Looks OK," "Too darned obvious," or "Nasty."
But then you would need audits for that queue.
 
@AdrianMole Who audits the auditors? :) We already know who moderates the moderators.
 
@AdrianMole Perhaps choosing those could be restricted to hammers in those tags. Of course, who audits those? And so on. But I like the idea.
 
3:48 PM
What to do when a low rep user points out a duplicate in the answer? Like this? I most cases I don't have the knowledge of the subject so I can't flag it as duplicate.
 
Plus, you could have a privilege (not sure at what rep. level) whereby we get to suggest a post as a known-good or known-bad audit for a particular queue. Limit to perhaps 1 or 2 per day, then send them for review and select the best of those offered.
 
@Yatin I check it out. If it's a duplicate, I post something like "Thank you for finding a duplicate. When you have enough reputation you can flag it as one." If it's unrelated I ask them to wait until they have enough reputation to leave a comment.
 
@Yatin I posted a comment. Also, the two questions are identical. Let's deal with the issue like only SOCVR can!
 
@Yatin And in this case, you DO have enough knowlegde. It's verbatim a duplicate.
 
@AdrianMole do we need to mention SOCVR in canned comments?
 
3:54 PM
@Yatin Nah
 
@Yatin It is not a canned comment. I just wrote it, all by myself.
 
Not liking the downvote on it though. They've found and mentioned a duplicate and the vote is going to feel like a punishment.
 
@Scratte sorry :p
 
@AdrianMole They cannot speak in chat :)
 
^+1
 
3:56 PM
I thought that was at 5 rep?
 
@AdrianMole 20 rep
 
Ninja'd. 5 reputation points is for meta.
 
5, 10, 20 - what difference does it make? They are all < 21, is not?
 
@AdrianMole Yea my bad I didn't click on that link
 
@AdrianMole lol!.. That's like 1, 500, 8000. It's all <10K, no? :)
 
3:59 PM
@Scratte Everyone is less than John Skeet. Nothing matters.
 
8K, 10K, 18.5K - all just practice levels. ;-P
But the point is, that user has 21.
 
@AdrianMole Ahh.. maybe I'm seeing ghosts then.
 
@AdrianMole They can flag (needs 15 rep)
 
@JeanneDark They were not at 21 at the time we started discussing this :)
 
@Scratte Huh?
 
4:02 PM
@AdrianMole They were at 11 reputation points until 5 minutes ago. (15:56:57Z)
 
Somebody "cool" edited one of their answers. Looks good, since that minor change!
 
Anyone want coffee with that? :)
 
!!/coffee Scratte
 
@AdrianMole brews a cup of Mocha for @Scratte
 
4:31 PM
 

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