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00:15
@tink If you've retracted your close vote on it, is the request in this room still valid?
@tink Based on your conversation above and that there are now no close-votes on this question, I'm assuming that you no longer feel it should be closed, or at least not closed for the reason specified. I'm going to assume that you want it moved out of the room. If you wanted it to remain, please tell me.
00:41
@Makyen I'm having a dilemma, I try not to down vote if a question is at -1. But plenty of questions I comes across deserve at least -1 and I'm the last user casting a close vote whith the question at 0 score. Problem is, if I cast a down vote on every questions that deserves it, I'll end up with a massive number of down votes and I don''t think that is accurate in reflecting my voting posture/participation. (So users checking my profile would get the wrong impression of me.)
@bad_coder :) That is a little funny, because I've sort of come to the same sort of dilemma. But if a post is closed and it has no upvoted or accepted Answer, it will still Roomba at 0-score.
@bad_coder if you feel a question has earned a downvote because this question doesn't show any research effort or is unclear or otherwise not useful DV it, no questions asked about your stats
@Scratte The dilemma was exacerbated recently, by seeing a lot of profiles (perhaps sock puppets) that ask questions but don't even bother to accept the answers or give an up vote. So in those instances, causing them to hit the question ban sooner rather than latter, amply warants a down vote.
@Vickel I'm still weary of causing a poor impression, a random legitimate user checks my profile and notices a disproportion between upvotes and downvotes (like X2, X3, or X4) without noticing I'm an active reviewer and there's good reason for the disproportion.
@bad_coder Sock puppets usually vote on each other. It's also be a lot easier for you if you do not try to enforce some sort of punishment or limitations on users, like trying to get them Question banned. It's not your call to make. Also, you cannot know that they are the same user. They may be taking the same course.
Wait.. X2 is a disproportion? :D
@bad_coder generally my rule of hand is, if a question of a new user already has a DV, I avoid to add another, except it is really asking for it
00:50
@Vickel You see comments asking for downvotes?
^ no, where?
"except it is really asking for it" :P
@Scratte mmmmm, honestly don't know. I'd want Dharman's thoughts on this...Some cases are just "suspicious" like, had an account for lots of years without a single question or any activity - then all of the sudden asks a few questions having interactions with a similar profile account (they don't need to mutually up vote, just get someone to solve their problem...!!)
@bad_coder It sounds like your dilemma is that what you desire people to perceive you as is different from what you think they will perceive if they see an accurate representation of how you feel you should be voting. In other words, you feel that you should be downvoting more than you currently are, at least relative to the number of upvotes you make and you think other people will see a large number of downvotes as negative in some way, or at least not as how you want them to view you.
There are a few ways out of this conundrum. The basics are that you do any of a combination of adjusting what your actions are, adjust what you think other people will perceive, not care about what other people might perceive, or change which people you care about as to what they perceive.
@bad_coder lol! Dharman will say: Downvote downvote downvote.. proportion is better at 1:1000 than 1:2 or something similar :)
00:54
People have a variety of voting patterns. It can be anything from not voting at all, through having a hundred thousand upvotes and no downvotes, through an equal number of upvotes and downvote, to having a hundred thousand downvotes and no upvotes. I've seen all sorts of voting patterns in those ranges.
100,000 votes :O That's some serious time unless one doesn't fully read a post before voting.
I find it very mysterious that some users seem to never come across a single post that they can appreciate. I am somehow better able to understand users that never downvote, than those that never upvote. One has argued that when it comes to Answers, one upvote is the same as downvoting all other Answers, and vice versa.
@Scratte well that's for those which make me really thinking why they are wasting the time of users wanting to contribute.
The largest thing you need to decide is if you want to adjust your actions to what you think some people will perceive. Whatever you think they will perceive, the reality is that different people will make different assumptions about the user based on what they see as the user's mix of up- and down-votes. Some people will look at having any downvotes as bad. Other people will look at not having a large number of downvotes as bad.
You will never be able to have a "good" ratio from everyone's point of view.
@Vickel I think of it this way: If it's really awfully horrible and it takes me 10 seconds to read it, then I don't downvote if it's already down. But if I spend 20 minutes and find that it's lacking something and they are not responsive, then I'm more easy on my trigger.
@bad_coder I think the key is, as @Makyen said, "not care about what other people might perceive". None of these people know who you are (other than a bad coder :) so what does it matter?
01:00
@Vickel I go with this one, not much sense in precipitating a question ban when it's a noob trying to understand how good questions are asked. If the user isn't in good faith, then yes a DV is well justified.
@bad_coder Anyone can make any weird assumption about your profile, if they wish to do so. Like.. why are you primarily voting on Questions? Do you not read Answers? :) Does it matter what strange things people think?
@Makyen I know the classical conundrum, "don't care about what others think" or "adjust". Those are good views, but the "impression" your track record leaves can't be escaped (as you well know from mod elections, conclusions are drawn from the stats.)
@bad_coder you should have a look at some smaller tags... Sometimes 50% of questions of the same day are downvoted and closed
Are you preparing to run as moderator? :O
@Vickel I spend most my time on sevelar smaller tags, the established users tend to "take it easy" with the DV's and I'm inclined to follow their example.
01:05
@bad_coder What I'd suggest is that you ignore what you think other people will assume when they see some particular mix of up- and down-votes. I'd suggest just voting the way that you think that you should be voting. That you just let the very few people who both look at your total up- and down-votes and who make assumptions about you based on that make whatever assumptions they want. People are going to be making assumptions no matter what.
Some of those are going to be positive, from their POV, some are going to be negative, from their POV. There's nothing that you can do to prevent that. Personally, I'd rather have people judging me based on me doing what I actually feel is right, rather than me doing something to please them.
Yes, there are times when you can/should adjust your behavior to match other people's expectations, usually to obtain some other goal or to "fit in", but this really isn't one of those times, IMO.
Maybe it's not about how you think other people will see you. But an image you have about what you want to signal?
@Makyen it's actually more a philosophic question where you end up, more DV or more UV, some users even decided and published on their profile that they only do either the one or the other
@Scratte Absolutely not, under no circumstance. But it's the one prevalent set of argument thrown during elections - in fact it's somewhat reductive.
@bad_coder True. However, different people commented in the most recent mod elections both that the same candidates had too many downvotes and that they had too few. People are going to make assumptions. You need to choose if you are going to adjust your actions to match what you think they are going to perceive or just go with what you think is right. If you choose to adjust to what you think others will perceive, then you need to choose which others you are wanting to match.
@Makyen This is a good pragmatism of action and effect, thinking about what audience matters to me. Perhaps my problem boils down to the fear of causing a bad impression on the larger crowd who won't understand that a lot of down votes is easily proportionate to number of reviews.
01:12
@bad_coder How so? Do you not pick the good ones to "Leave Open"? :) It's only sort of a joke, but anything can be nitpicked.
@bad_coder I wouldn't think you should worry about it
@Scratte have you ever found a "leave open" one?
@Vickel I have found a lot of posts that I think should be open that was closed in the queue.
@Makyen Well, I'll have to only down vote in extreme cases. I don't want the average user who checks my profile thinking I like giving out down votes or that I down vote lightly.
Problem solved, thanks guys :) !!!
Wait.. what? You have a solution? :)
@bad_coder you could state that in your profile, if it concerns so much
01:15
@Vickel good point, I've been thinking about what I want to say in my profile. But that youtube video pretty much says it all.
@Vickel It's both philosophical and depends greatly on what you are doing on the site. If the majority of what you are doing is moderation, then the majority, or even the vast majority of what you are going to be seeing is poor content. If nearly everything you see is poor content, then you probably are going to have cast a lot more downvotes than upvotes.
OTOH, if you are doing other things on the site and the majority of what you are seeing is good content, then you're probably going to have more upvotes than downvotes.
Personally, the only people I think are truly doing it wrong are the ones which have only upvotes or only downvotes. I find it really hard to believe that someone has never seen something that's good or never seen something that's bad (assuming they've seen a reasonable amount of content and aren't just really new).
@Makyen I just want to add a remark on this, because the phrasing can be interpreted as "having interests" or "second intentions". Perhaps a better description is that I don't want to give a wrong image of myself. An accurate truthful impression -not with the aim of getting something- is by itself a good because human relations should be based on truthfulness to be meaningful. Falsifying truth doesn't yield good fruit.
Although a lot of folks think themselves smart for deceiving.
@Makyen we might have seen those user profiles stating the 2 adverse points of view during those years over and over again. And I think if someone decides to only upvotes or only downvotes is at the end up to the user's point of view how to moderate content.
01:34
@bad_coder I agree that truthfulness is better. However, put into "truthfulness" terms I don't see how you have your initial question. Your initial question can be rephrased as "by my actions, should I lie about how I feel I should be voting?" The rest is just justification as to why you might use your actions to lie. That justification being that some people have a preconceived notion that someone who is as you desire to be perceived will have some particular ratio of up and down-votes.
@Makyen anyway it seems looking at a user profile (other than your own), you can only see the total of the votes cast, not the DV and UV balance (at least I as a <10k user)
@Vickel That's not entirely accurate. Go to any profile, pick "Activity". Make sure you are on the "Summary" tab. Go to the bottom..
@Vickel It is, of course, up to each individual to decide how to vote (with some restrictions wrt. targeted voting, voting fraud, etc.). If someone chooses only to express that they think some posts are good or only express that they think some posts are bad, that is, of course, their choice.
@Scratte please show me ! I was stalking @bad_coder profile and only see 1,073 votes cast
^but no UV DV relation at all
@Vickel My test profiles (at <100 rep) can see both total votes cast and the mix of up- and down-votes, so I'm not sure what you're not seeing.
01:43
@Vickel I'll paste an image of what I can see on your profile, if you're in doubt.
@Scratte gimmy a second :)
@Makyen ok sorry guys, didn't scroll to the bottom :) @Scratte
No worries :) At least you know what to stalk now :P
^ hehe :) looks like I'm not used to that kind of activity
2am, I'm off to bed, bye /o
02:00
\0
@bad_coder my, what a big head you have! :)
@Nick LoL it gets bigger ( ✪ワ✪)ノ ʸᵉᵃʰ ᵎ
@bad_coder awesome.
Hmm.. I guess with such a big head, you'll never know if a 🐿 is living in your hair :D
02:25
@Scratte What's the issue with chipmunks? I've seen them being referenced around.
@bad_coder I thought it was a squirrel :(
@Scratte ok, so what do people mean when they reference squirrels or chipmunks?
@bad_coder Do you know who this is?
@Scratte that funny character from some pixart movie?
Yup. His name is Scrat. He's a sort of squirrel.
02:36
@Scratte his name is Scrat :O ?!
Yes. Here's Scrat. This is Scratte.. not friends with Scrat, anymore.
0
Q: Duplicate tag: [django-class-based-views] - [class-based-views]

Ann Zenclass-based-views Questions: 105 Created: 9 years, 8 months ago Viewed: 9 times Editors: 1 Tag Info: There is no usage guidance for this tag … yet! Usage guidance, also known as a tag wiki excerpt, is a short blurb that describes when and why a tag should be used on this site specifically. dj...

@Scratte one of the most amazing things I have learned on SO :) - I'll have to watch the movie then.
@bad_coder lol! There is more than one :) You're honestly never seen this?
@Scratte a marathon of watching movies then, oh well hopefully I'll get some time in December.
02:44
So, it's against the rules to propose to review an edit on one's own post as they could not review it due to review holdback?
@AnnZen I don't know, someone else will have to answer this.
@Scratte lol the video was really funny, I liked it :) yes I watched a few minutes years ago on the television by coincidence but I haven't seen the full movie.
@AnnZen Are you asking if someone can ask for a review on their own post? That they cannot review themselves due to a review suspension?
 
1 hour later…
@Makyen Sorry for the late response - yeah, removal was desired. Got sidetracked and forgot to say so expressly. Thank you!
Hammer time! Proud owner of gold arrays badge #85 :)
04:20
@Nick Congratulations!
@Makyen thanks!
@Nick Yes, congrats
@AnnZen It is not a case which was considered in the rules. I can see arguments on both sides. On one side, you are involved in the post, which would argue against permitting it. On the other side, the system normally grants the author of a post the right to both unilaterally approve/reject and of overriding the approval or rejection by other users. It's not clear to me that it's really the designer's intent to remove those abilities from the author when they are suspended from reviewing.
I consider it quite possible that the effect of preventing an author from approving/rejecting edits to their own posts was an unintended consequence of how the review system works, rather than something which was specifically intended.
As to being permitted to make a request for people to review an edit on your own post, without discussion, I'd generally lean towards not permitting it as the more conservative choice. However, I expect that I could be convinced that it was something which we should permit. However, permitting such would be our explicitly deciding that that part of the restriction which the system puts in place for a review suspention is inappropriate.
As such, I would be much more comfortable with our permitting it, if there was a Meta feature request which asked for authors to not be prevented from approving/rejecting edits on their own posts and that such a request had voting indicating that there was a strong consensus towards allowing post authors to approve/reject edits on their own posts, even when suspended from reviewing.
Good. There's an edit here that makes me laugh. Not that it's wrong, it's just the wording of it.
Can someone help me approve it, so I can edit it?
@Machavity what's wrong?
@AnnZen Rollback wars get autoflagged. We also have Rule 18 about not pinging mods for flaggable things
@Machavity oh, sorry!
When an OP disputes a dupe closure, I ask them to edit the post to explain why. Apparently the close banner says the OP should ask a new question. What's the right thing to do?
@cigien The right thing is for them to edit the question to make it clear how the question is different from the dup-target. The banner which is displayed to the OP is ... inappropriate and poorly worded. I believe the intent was to indicate that if they had another question that they should ask that. Unfortunately, as written, many/most OPs will read it as indicating that they should just re-ask the same question.
Basically, the change SE made to the post notices in this instance has set this part of the system up for failure. It significantly increases the work for people doing moderation tasks and increased both the confusion for question authors and their level of dissatisfaction with SO/SE wrt. the handling of their question.
04:52
@Machavity thanks
@Makyen That's unfortunate. I closed this, incorrectly I think, and the OP actually edited the post, and it was almost reopened. But OP deleted it, and posted this where you can see the comments leading to my question here. How should I explain this to OPs generally?
I'm not entirely comfortable just saying they should ignore the banner at least.
05:23
@cigien It's not an easy thing to explain, because the post notice is relatively hard to interpret as meaning something other than "go re-ask the same question", when you're reading it from the POV of the OP. The few times I've tried to explain it to OPs, I've usually started with acknowledging that the post notice is poorly written for what the intent was. I try to keep in mind that it's really not the OP's fault that they've re-asked basically the same question.
@cigien Side note: Only people who have single-handedly acted on the post can be pinged. Thus, the close voter can only be pinged if there was only one person who voted to close (i.e. a gold badge holder who dup-hammered or a moderator). If more than one person voted to close, then none of them can be pinged.
@Makyen Ok, I'll make sure to start with that caveat next time. I'll leave this post alone. The last point is good, I'll bear that in mind. Thanks.
@Makyen Yeah, I try to always mention that they should @ with the user name, when there are multiple closers.
@cigien They can't ping the close-voters when there are multiple people who voted to close.
No, they can @ anyone if they spell the name correctly without spaces, right? It's worked when I've tried it.
Well, it's worked when I ping Samuel at least. Does it only work for mods?
05:30
@cigien No. You can only @ ping someone who has acted unilaterally on the post (e.g. someone who edited, or who closed the question by themselves.).
@cigien I don't believe that moderators are special with respect to when they can be pinged.
@cigien Sam may have set something up such that he has a task which checks the questions which he has closed. I know he has something that monitors chat for mentions of his userscripts.
@Makyen Ok, that's strange though. Maybe it's Samuel's system that monitors network wide chats that picks up pings to them. I just pinged you on a random post to see if that worked. Let me know if you do see it.
@Makyen Ok, that must be it then. Thanks for clarifying.
@cigien I have not gotten anything. It would be a significant negative, from moderator's POV, for it to be possible to ping moderators from anywhere (way to easy to abuse). It would also sidestep quite a bit of the flagging mechanic.
@Makyen Yeah, that does make sense. And I suppose it wouldn't make sense to allow non-mods to be pinged from anywhere either. I think it does make sense to be able to ping a user if they were involved in a post in any way.
@cigien I agree that it would be more intuitive if a user could be pinged if they interacted with the post, rather than the requirement that they acted unilaterally. OTOH, I expect part of the intent for how it works is that SE didn't want people to be able to be pinged for things which were actions by a group, rather than by an individual.
@Makyen Hmm, I would think all the users in a group action would be accountable, and hence pingable. But I understand many users wouldn't like to be pinged all the time, so restricting that is reasonable I guess.
05:49
@cigien Well, they are certainly accountable on Meta.
I'm not sure how it would shake-out wrt. pings if everyone was pingable. I expect that it would be possible to determine how often it is attempted, but would require searching through comments, possibly deleted comments, on mostly deleted questions. In other words, getting any reliable data would really require help from an SE employee.
We could probably get a guesstimate, which would need to be scaled in some manner, by looking at non-deleted comments on the closed posts which have not yet been deleted.
@Makyen True, but I meant accountable to the OP in case they made a mistake. I'm certainly not sure this is actually a good idea, I just feel bad when I make a mistake, or OP edits a post into shape, and I don't get a chance to reevaluate. Of course, there's a system in place that doesn't require me to reevaluate every post I've acted on when the OP edits it. It's just what led me to feel pingability is a good thing.
 
2 hours later…
How to edit this question?
I feel like the strike part is part of the code...
08:27
@Yatin I've made that edit
Thank you :)
08:52
This request and this request have been actioned and reopened, and should be moved to the graveyard (cc @rene)
 
2 hours later…
10:36
Props to Bhargav - I flagged a NAA, and it was deleted in 19 seconds :=)
\o
o/
 
1 hour later…
11:51
Isn't this off topic?
@Ruli it is indeed. I am issuing a cv-pls request
12:58
@Machavity There's been a mistake. Can you approve this edit please?
There's a banner that says If you disagree with this edit being rejected, you can apply it to your post using the Approve button below., but it is also unavailable.
13:11
Argh!.. I think I've cause an auto-flag to be raised :(
13:27
Is my English all wrong, or am I right to assume that texture and text have no relation at all? As in Video Texture does not in any remote way imply there is text involved in this at all. Just bytes.
14:16
Is this question on-topic? That seems to be asking for in-game commands...
Minecraft has a command block in-game... I think the question is asking how to write commands for it
14:58
I just found a question that I sort of liked. I have tried to edit it, but could you help me getting it up to an acceptable level? stackoverflow.com/questions/65050874/…
@klutt I think focusing on one language changes the OP's intent. I've edited, and retagged. I think it's ok now.
@cigien Nice one. To bad it got so heavily downvoted.
Well, that's what up-votes are for ;)
@klutt Apart from the fact that I don't think those pings work, is that worth your time at all? I mean, does that work often?
15:17
@cigien I don't know. Don't use them very often. But I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that those pings work. It's just the tab completion that does not.
@cigien Sometimes I kind of get locked in my brain to fix a very specific thing and cannot let it go. I guess all programmers can relate. But you're right of course. Doing what I did was about as valuable as when you asked me if it was worth the time. :D
I have used those pings when people have made edits they should not do and I have rolled them back. For instance inlining images of code that should not be there anyway.
@klutt I thought so too. See this discussion I had just today. That was about pinging users who took actions, but I suspect it's similar for users who had comments that are now deleted.
@cigien And that applies here. Those who I pinged participated in closing the question.
@klutt No, read the follow up. I was wrong, I just linked to that message since it started the discussion. You can't ping users if they closed a question as a group.
@cigien Ok, thanks. I'll try to remember that, but I probably will not. :D
15:36
"Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat".
What happens when the user is 1 reputation points? Can they talk in that chat?
Only if invited.
@JohnDvorak It's their own post :O
then maybe? IIRC the link to convert doesn't show unless both commenters can chat.
dbc
dbc
Is this bountied question worth mod-flagging as a duplicate? The 4 most obvious duplicates are shown in comments. Deserialize json response to multiple types dynamically using json.net. I could just answer it since one of the duplicates is mine...
I can't invite the user to the chat..
16:06
@AnnZen If you want that edit made, I would just add it in yourself. It's not clear why he wanted to add commentary so I rejected it. Apparently it cannot be un-rejected if done by a moderator (even by me)
@JeanneDark just curious why you deleted this on Meta. It is an answer I would write.
@rene Perhaps it's because I edited the question, making the second paragraph irrelevant? The rest of the answer looks good to me.
16:22
all reads fine to me.
Sure, there's nothing wrong with any of it.
waffles
@cigien I was about to write a comment with all that info from that answer. That felt silly.
Why not write an answer yourself?
I'm a little surprised that's not a dupe. I feel like basically everything's been asked on meta :p
16:26
Hey, I'm recovering from a meta answer on plagiarism, I'm not getting tricked into doing the same ....
Fair enough :) I'm a little confused by why users are CVing as a dupe though. It's about a specific main post, so I figured it's unique.
I expect it's harder for flowers to squint than it is for for pipes, moles or hats.
certainly
Not to change the topic, but was the edit on this correct? I thought we were supposed to leave R/A/Spam intact, and just flag it.
I tried to see, but I can't squint that much ;)
16:41
I didn't actually see any plagiarism. I hadn't even looked at the main posts :( I left a comment agreeing with the OP, just to make the point of being explicit in flags. Then I read the post, and had to retract the comment :p
@cigien yeah, no edits on R/A or spam posts
K, thanks.
@rene It received a downvote and then I lost interest. Since you know more about SEDE, you would be able to write a much better answer anyway.
Some users say that if you don't also have low scoring posts on meta, you're doing it wrong :)
One of mine started with a score of -4 or -5 on the first day, but ended up in the positive range.
@JeanneDark it also got an upvote ...
16:53
So I didn't have to delete with a negative score :)
17:12
@JeanneDark wrote an answer with credits.
A fine answer! I upvoted it.
How can I be pinged without being pinged?
@cigien Regarding your edit: Not sure why you removed and added instead. It's a question ("A request for assistance with one of the site's features.").
@JeanneDark Yeah, you're right. I'm not used to meta tags yet. I'll edit it, thanks.
18:02
@Scratte No, users with < 20 reputation can not talk in chat unless they are listed on the room's "explicit write access" list . If the user has < 20 reputation, only a moderator can add the user to a chat room's access list. If the user has > 20 reputation, then a room owner can add them to one of the access lists, which will remain effective if the user drops below 20 reputation.
@Makyen Strangely I had a conversation with a 1 reputation point user in a chat room today.. ?!?
@Scratte A room owner maybe?
I was also a bit confused by meta today on a different matter. Is it true that upvotes/downvotes, that do not influence the score of a post, made by a user that does not have the privileges are recorded on their profile so they can view those "votes"?
@Scratte Yes, a moderator created the room and added the users who were engaged in the conversation to the "explicit write access" list.
<censored>
18:17
@Makyen OK. Thank you :) That makes sense now :)
@JeanneDark Thank you. I think perhaps you should mention that on this meta answer to Will the answerer know they were voted up while I have less than 15 reputation points? though they seem to suggest that the total votes counts the them.
On a side note.. the comment section on that post JeanneDark just linked in hilarious :D
18:33
@Scratte People are using upvotes as bookmarks?... :=O
@halfer It works just like bookmarks, no? :) When the post is deleted, the vote is also gone from the list. But I thought it was funny that a moderator did not know about the tab at all :)
In other news, here is someone who wants to keep track of which caterpillars to lubricate! stackoverflow.com/questions/65039125/… (I know what they mean, but it may not be clear to the uninitiated)
Personally I think their caterpillars might be overworked, and they should put on their hundred little booties and march down to their local caterpillar union.
lol! I'm not sure they are talking about the same kind of caterpillars.. and all sorts of bad things went into my mind :D
@Scratte :=)
I have no idea why anyone designing webpages thinks it's a good idea to force auto-start videos, but this one seems to be excelling at it starting multiple ones at the same time!
I can certainly understand why someone would think those products need timely and constant maintenance :)
18:53
@halfer Did you notice that you are now the third biggest editor this year?
Does one grow bigger by editing?
@Dharman Sadly yes, it's all the lockdown doughnuts I am eating. I need to sort out an exercise plan :=(
yum, doughnuts
I don't know how one could edit so many posts. You still have my greatest respect.
Thanks. I find it quiet therapeutic really. I like the flow of words, and I enjoy writing.
@halfer Maybe you don't need to. Maybe it will overflow once you get past fuller and you'll need to eat more to get back to halfer.
19:02
I just completed a large chunk of documentation at work, and I enjoyed that too. Most devs find documentation dull, in my experience, but I think it is essential (especially during a project handover, which is what I am doing).
@Scratte Ha! Yes, I should eat halfer doughnuts :=)
Documentation of code is better than documentation of the project
19:25
@Scratte It got cleaned up :(
Is this No Repro? OP thinks program only prints 1 number instead of 4. Ans: they didn't put spaces in the output.
@cigien Yes
Thanks. I was confused because of all the up-votes, and no-one reacting to my comment for an hour.
I've made that mistake too.. I just never got to the point where I posted a Question about it.
..but I also did not search for it, so I'm not going to argue that it's useful.
I really want doughnuts now
19:35
I like the holes better..
 
1 hour later…
21:03
Has this bug been reported on meta?
@Yatin Wait.. yes. Maybe.. hold on :)
@Dharman Thank you :)
How did you find it?
Ninja'd.
I looked at posts tagged bug recently on meta
Also my name is in the screenshot
2
21:15
@cigien: regarding the now-deleted meta question, here is a link if you have access to it
@HovercraftFullOfEels Ah, that's the context, thanks. googling didn't reveal anything.
@cigien: I got involved in a roll-back war -- not fun
The main post is a bit rude, but the meta one is not at all. Why did it get deleted immediately?
@cigien: I have no idea
@HovercraftFullOfEels 22 revisions. Ouch.
21:18
@cigien: perhaps ask @rene, since he was involved with the deletion
@rene I'm wondering why this meta post was insta-deleted. The OP is civil, the language is clean, and the content is related to how SO functions.
@cigien you think so? There is nothing I read there that seems to lead to a useful or healthy discussion. What is the issue they want to discuss?
This seems like ML methodology type question... But I don't wanna risk a mod flag cause a similar one was declined..
@rene I trust your experience, and based on the main post link Hovercraft shared, I can see the meta post would have ended up being a disaster. But based on the meta post alone, it seemed to me like they're one of the many new users who are confused by why they get down-voted, and have posts closed.
@cigien: this one was toxic. If you only saw the comments that were deleted before the question was deleted.... I was surprised that the account wasn't put in the penalty box, TBH
21:32
@HovercraftFullOfEels Sure. Even without the deleted comments, the main post itself is clearly unacceptable. But I only saw the meta post, and while I was suspicious, my instinct wasn't to delete it.
@cigien I simply don't want to start a discussion where I am to respond to Why do you hate me because that is already so lob-sided that winning them over is useless. They can retrace their steps and try again with a more neutral starting point.
@rene Ah, that's a good point. A sincere question wouldn't start with their premise that "coder's pride" is an actual thing. Ok, I see how that's a good indicator that the post is not going to be useful.
Does meta get posts like that a lot? I would imagine a fair amount.
@Yatin Why did you raise a moderator flag on that last link?
@cigien One of the problems is that these kind of things gets a hard pushback. It makes everything worse for everyone and in the end the post is deleted anyway. I had a conversation today with someone that was miffed, but it didn't go anywhere bad. Maybe I was just lucky though :)
@cigien a couple per day. I try to find a duplicate so they at least get useful feedback if they 're open to read and consume that. This case it was already closed unilateral by a diamond. It got requests for links to their question and a useful warning comment so I thought that was enough to steer them clear of too much Meta effect.
@Scratte this
21:42
@Yatin Oh.. yeah. That is not what @desertnaut meant. When you get close votes, you will not have "Blatantly" as a close vote, like you now have a close flag. You'll get a custom close vote where you can put a message. It's not a custom moderator flag.
@rene Oh, wow, that many? Ok, I see why y'all would be able to make an instant judgement on that. I asked them sincerely for a link to the main post, which wouldn't have gone well for anyone :( I'll be more careful about that.
@Scratte Yeah, that makes sense. I've only seen a few of these kinds of posts, but they never end well, that's true.
@cigien You handled that pretty well. Even made them edit their post :)
@Yatin it's as @Scratte says; and if in doubt, you can always ask here - that's what we are here for ;)
@cigien I'm happy to help when a post takes the position this didn't go well, what can I do to improve so this doesn't happen again. Not many posts use that approach. Feels more like where to shift the blame to.
@Yatin Use "flag" -> "needs improvement" -> "A community-specific reason" -> Blatantly off-topic
21:47
@Scratte Thanks. I "made" them edit the post the same way I make anyone do anything. I ask politely and explain why it's in their interest to do that ;)
@Yatin I would VTC the first one as "not about programming" indeed, but I would prefer "details / clarity" for the second one
@rene Yeah, I just read it for the 4th time, and with every reading, it seems increasingly like the OP had already made up their mind. Which is never great. I'll need to see a few more to get a sense of when there might be sincere desire to improve. Thanks for the clarification.
Thank you for the clarification @Scratte @desertnaut
@cigien Some times it works out fine. But it usually requires no push back in the process :) If you've made up your mind and everyone is telling you you're plain wrong, you're more likely to just defend your position, no? :)
@Yatin anytime
21:53
@Scratte Depends on the subject. If everyone tells me I'm wrong about a technical question, I'll spin on a dime, but if everyone tells me I'm wrong about which is the greatest rock band ever, I'll fight all of them to the death ;)
@cigien That's a very silly thing to die for.. ;) Especially since you can't know about all the rock bands there ever were. Do you know any Danish ones? :D
Ok, that joke was not a real example. I don't even like rock particularly :p Especially anything too loud. I definitely don't know any Danish bands :(
I've been listening to this old one, Backwards, It's a Danish guy and a Swedish girl.. and it's not rock and not a band either :)
22:10
@Scratte Thanks, that was very nice :) I was rather hoping it would in Danish/Swedish, or both ;)
@cigien You mean language wise?
I have been listening to Vice city radio and I am so glad I discovered it
@Scratte Yeah.
@cigien Well, I obviously know a lot of Danish bands :)
@Scratte That song is "Bossa Nova"
22:14
@Scratte Which is why I thought you'd share something in the language :)
@Dharman What is that?
@cigien Every Danish person will know this one. It's called Forårsdag. It means Spring Day. It's about life and one of the lines goes: All that you have cried throughout your life, vanishes on a Spring day.
22:24
@bad_coder Oh yes. That's very similar :)
@Scratte Very nice :)
@cigien your turn, share something in your native language.
But that's English.
@cigien Aren't you from Goa?
I am. There are a fair number of native English speakers there.
22:40
It's allowed to be in English, no?
Fair enough :p
expecting to hear greatest rock band ever :P
@cigien So what's your second language?
Konkani
@cigien A song in Konkani then please.
22:47
All this discussion of music is off-topic. I've flagged all of the messages. Expect to be ejected from the room shortly ;)
Here's one by Lorna I quite like.
@cigien This is really interesting, you could take the exact same music with someone singing over it in any language. This kind of music was prevalent in that time and still is to an extent popular everywhere. Off course the main point is the language.
23:06
@bad_coder True. Fun fact, the genre of music Goa is probably best known for is Goa Trance, which is actually where Psychedelic Trance comes from. Stuff like LSD by Hallucinogen. I used to be very into this stuff back home.
Well, at least when I was in college :p
@cigien That reminds of holidays in the South when I was a child :)
South of what exactly?
@cigien Denmark :) It's in the middle of Europe, so.. going like going to France for summer or Greece :)
@halfer Why wasn't that deleted by a mod? There's a banner saying "mods think this is off-topic".
@Scratte Aah, I see :)
@cigien Because I'd deleted about a dozen questions asking the same thing that day
@cigien I guess there was short-term value in keeping it, dunno
Better to leave one as canonical while it's ongoing
23:28
@Machavity Aah, ok, that makes sense. cc @halfer
I expect there was about 250 NAA flags on that thread :)
10 NAAs deleted by Bhargav :)
@cigien Yes, I do not think they only had one flag each :)
Indeed.

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