@TylerH I don't, or I try not to. I remember being in that position for a brief period, and at least to me it was not clear that I shouldn't suggest edits if the post was likely to get closed for other reasons (which I probably wouldn't even have recognized at the time). I only decline if the edit itself is bad/lazy.
@cigien there's no penalty for rejected edits. Anyway, usually they are superfluous or largely incomplete edits that would be debatable even without question closure. But what really pushes it over the line for me is: this edit would not make the question non-close-worthy, so it shouldn't be a suggested edit.
@TylerH There is. One gets a rejected edit. This is why I do not edit.
And to add to that. Having one's edit rejected just because someone else wants to close vote it, isn't very reasonable if the edit is good. It's like saying: Don't waste your time trying to improve a post, your work and time is to be tossed.
@Scratte There are things that are designed and labeled as penalties and then there are neutral things that you just on a whim like to call a penalty; that doesn't make the latter a penalty
It just means you're going against the norm with how you perceive that thing
@TylerH I really don't understand this. Someone will edit it. Are you saying that not fixing a post is better if it may get closed? So that then someone else can edit it once it is closed?
and that is perfectly fine, but the important thing to understand that discussions around such system features will not wait or hinge on your novel opinion because they'll instead be based on the norms
@TylerH I do not agree. And I also see a lot of post that are close-worthy being edited. So it's basically you punishing users for doing what the site wants users to do.
just because you can suggest an edit to a question where you capitalize a few lowercase "i"s doesn't mean you should. Especially when there are other problems you don't fix. Double especially when the question is asking something like "which tool would you recommend for this task"
@Scratte Yes the current UX decision makers working at Stack Overflow are not very good at their jobs, I agree.
@TylerH No, I don't think that's a reasonable thing to expect. From my own experience, I could make high quality edits (grammar, spelling, formatting, and such) way before I could confidently judge whether a question should be closed.
@TylerH The royal me doesn't edit because there is a risk that it will get rejected. Spending 5-30 minutes on an edit that gets rejected because someone wants to "teach me a lesson" isn't very motivating for editing any kind of post, open, new, closed or otherwise. I've learned it.
@cigien I think there's not that much of a gap; if you're able to make true high quality, complete edit suggestions you're likely intelligent enough to have a decent gist on what's on-topic or not. If not, you're at least intelligent enough to learn from a rejected edit or two.
There is a big cap, @TylerH. It took me a long time in the maze of meta to understand what's on topic, what posts get closed and that close voting is highly opinionated.
I see.. I just made myself non-intelligent. Or not intelligent enough.
You should read up on the concept 'don't let the perfect become the enemy of the good'. Not doing something because there's a chance you won't have a perfect track record is, to put it nicely, extremely silly.
It's not something you let happen because it's out of your control. I'm also not sure how spending time here is not logically thus a massive waste of time if you refuse to participate in the things the room does (e.g. moderation)
@Scratte I seem to recall you saying you refused to participate in order to earn reputation because you don't want to have the ability to do things like close vote / reopen vote, delete vote, etc.
@Scratte I don't believe you're unhelpful, just wondering how you reconcile your metric for wasting time with not wanting to do more types of useful action yet spend time in a room where you can't do most of the actions folks in the room do
To me it's like wanting to join a soccer/futbol team, but only wanting to play for 10 minutes of each match.
@TylerH Ah, it seems we disagree on the magnitude of the gap then. The lesson I learned from my edits being rejected was, to not edit posts unless I was sure they were not close-worthy. That resulted in me editing a fraction of the posts I would have otherwise. Fine, except that I think all those edits were good (I'm biased, of course :)), and they're basically the same kinds of edits I make now (except I don't worry about whether the question will be closed).
It does seem odd to me that I was expected to be more discerning with choosing which posts to edit when I had <3k, than I do now :p
@Scratte There do appear to be some systemic issues with the feature. Another thing I remember being annoyed by was the 2 rep that was dangled in front of me, ostensibly to do a task that I thought I was qualified for, but actually requiring judgement calls for which I was not :(
@Scratte it's not a punishment; it's a corrective action. Even a ban is just a 'hey take a break for a bit' message (unless you're one of those souls who gets a year-long+ review ban, then maybe find a new hobby). It's an opportunity to learn how to do better, not a message that you aren't meant to do it.
""You miss 100% of the shots you don't take" - Wayne Gretsky" - Michael Scott
@TylerH Corrective actions is the same to me. It's telling me: Don't do this. You did it wrong. You wasted your time AND you have it on your record. To me it's a very clear message to "stop doing it".
Doing it again is just asking for another "corrective action". Why would I want to try that out?
@Scratte Maybe, I can't say I've given the whole thing too much thought, possibly because I was only on the receiving end for a brief period :p All I'm doing is recognizing there's an issue and then whingeing about it. I don't really have any well formed opinions on how to fix it :(
@cigien I do not think you can fix it. I fixed it for myself, which works for me. But fixing it for the site is an entirely different matter.
@TylerH I'm also not sure it's an opportunity to learn. The lesson seems to me to be more like: It depends on the opinion of the users who sees it. There's nothing to learn about it because there's no rule, just opinions.
The whole thing about Stack Overflow (and its Sister Sites) is that curation (or user-level moderation) is done by Community Consensus. That is, inherently, never going to be 100% flawless: good edits will sometimes get rejected and, more often, bad edits will get approved. And similar things occur in other circumstances (closing, deleting, up-voting, down-voting ... pretty much everything, really).
... However, although it's not perfect, it does, IMHO, make S.O. one of the best (if not the best) websites of its type - far superior to Quora or Reddit, for example.
But thanks, all, for raising this. It has reminded to me make sure I cast a close vote on most of those questions I choose to edit from the H&I Queue! ;-)
@Scratte If you mean have different information in various per-site profiles, that's possible by clicking "Save changes just for this community" rather than "Save and copy changes to all public communities" when you are done editing your profile information.
@Dharman once in a while one pops up that seems enough different from the pack to make it worth while. I've long fallen from #1 on PHP top users (only answered 25 questions in the last 30 days out of the ~8000 in that time).
You've got more Answer than most have reputation :D I have no idea how you do that. It takes me at least an hour to write an Answer. And I still miss some typos
I see you didn't even tell the full story. 4,252 Answers :O I have fewer helpful flags..
I found that bountied Questions are impossible to answer, so I don't even look at them. Or maybe they just were the day I looked at them some 6 months ago :)