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8:00 PM
I have badges -2 ... but that could change soon.
@Machavity Can you advise me who to vote for? xD
@AdrianMole If there are any cats or dogs, they automatically get a vote
That's how @JonClements got in :-P
@TylerH Yvette has a horse in hers. Does that count?
@TylerH you mock but I'm sure two votes were based on that :p
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
@AnnZen Funeral?
@Braiam It works.
@Braiam Yes. Because of the graveyard.
@AnnZen Honestly, I was impressed by this way of asking to have a request removed :)
8:14 PM
@AnnZen Ann, what's a funeral request?
@user1271772 It's to ask room owners to mourn a certain message.
@AnnZen Mourning is what we do when people die right?
Or in this case, when a message gets deleted?
@user1271772 It doesn't get deleted.
But the message you linked to, is not deleted
@user1271772 It will be moved to the graveyard.
8:17 PM
@Scratte When?
@user1271772 Nobody knows.. But it will happen :)
Yeah, some messages take are mourned for longer.
@AnnZen I don't understand all this though. You posted a message notifying people that a question needs debugging details. Why is it going to move to the graveyard and why does it need to be mourned?
I looked at the SOCVR tour page: socvr.org/tour
It doesn't say "mourn" or "funeral" anywhere.
@user1271772 I proposed a close vote request, but then, the post got deleted, so the request needs to go.
@user1271772 Most of us like to keep our mourning to ourselves.
There is no reason to request that. The room owners will move all completed requests to the graveyard as part of their duties.
8:21 PM
@AnnZen Oh, wait. I didn't even look to see the status of the request. I just assumed you were pinging because you didn't want people to act on it anymore, but it was actually complete.
Under normal conditions, you don't need to ask the ROs to move individual completed requests to the Graveyard. When an RO triggers it, the Archiver script looks through the existing chat messages for requests and automatically finds requests and determines if each request is complete (including cv-pls requests where the question is deleted). It will then let the RO move all completed requests with an additional click.
Oops..
You really only need to ping us to remove a single request when you no longer want people to act on it, or it's clear the Archiver script has been run and is skipping a request for some reason.
I wish we could follow deleted posts. And get notified when they are undeleted.
Even better: let a bot follow those, and notify chat.
and... ninja'd, again :)
@AnnZen So basically, "funeral request" is a request to move your close-vote request, to the graveyard?
8:22 PM
@user1271772 Yes. But the room isn't even called graveyard.
@AnnZen What's it called?
@AnnZen Isn't it?
Fun fact: we used to send all stuff to Requests Graveyard
It's called SOCVR /dev/null
8:23 PM
Oops.. again :)
@user1271772 That's what was asked for by the humorous "funeral request". However, under most conditions, asking for a specific request to be moved to the SOCVR Request Graveyard, because the vast majority of completed requests will be moved semi-automatically by the ROs.
now we have a Graveyard (for completed/expired requests) and /dev/null for canceled requests, invalid requests, and other stuff inappropriate for SOCVR
@Makyen So this was just to speed up the process of moving it to the graveyard.
@AnnZen Are you in Hong Kong?
@user1271772 Yes, that is what was intended. However, it's not something we normally do, as doing it for every request would be a lot of extra messages.
First person to disagree with my automatic corrections. stackoverflow.com/a/62881748/1839439
However, so far there's been a great success.
8:30 PM
@Dharman see this
Basically, if a request ends up in the SOCVR Request Graveyard it left this room either as completed, or with the author of the request still wanting it to be completed. If a request ends up in SOCVR /dev/null, then it left this room with the expectation that the request would not be acted upon further.
I the case of that request, I did not pay enough attention to the request and moved it first to SOCVR /dev/null. After realizing my mistake, I moved it the SOCVR Request Graveyard.
I arrived here because of the link to SOCVR on Machavaty's election profile.
@JohannesKuhn Thank you for the edit.
@Dharman Well, let's hope you don't lose by one vote, otherwise it will probably have been that user.
@Makyen Automatic one-boxing is not really helpful. Wish it could be disabled by the room owner on a per-room basis.
8:32 PM
@JohannesKuhn Yes, we would like that too. There are times and rooms in which it's appropriate, but having it always done is inconvenient in many circumstances.
On the list for 6 to 8 years ...
@JohannesKuhn It would be nice if SO had a fully automatic way of removing it. For the moment I am experimenting with automatic removal myself.
I wonder how many users actually talk ever in chat.
@Dharman Lets start a rollback war then :)
I personally think it's not worth angering someone who is productively answering questions over.
Sure, it's unneeded, but question answers are needed.
8:35 PM
@Scratte Start a war because of clutter? Not the best idea
@Scratte If it gets rolled back again then anyone who feels strongly enough can flag for mod attention
@TylerH I like that you try :)
so much low-hanging fruit for regex to block post submission...
@IanCampbell Which question is it that the answers are unneeded for?
@IanCampbell It sort of depends, I think. If I answer 15000 times, it would be much better if I do not leave 15000 "Hope it helps"..
8:40 PM
1 day ago I close-voted 24 questions. 8 were closed and 5 were deleted by the post author which means that 11 are still open. Out of 11, 8 of them received 2 close votes. If I look at my votes casts like 1 or 2 weeks ago, I see similar ratios. Is there nothing happening to these questions with "only" 2 close votes, except the votes expire?
@user1271772 My wording was a little confusing. I'm saying the author of the post which is now involved in a rollback.... disagreement... has answered a number of questions. I can only assume some of them are useful. I whole heartedly agree with Dharman that "I hope this helps" is not needed, but I wonder if making the author feel unwelcome might have disproportionate negative effects.
@MrUpsidown correct. That is the reason the CVQ is as huge as it is.
not enough voters
@IanCampbell I do think that someone that is doing so much free work for StackOverflow, should not be made to feel unappreciated. There's better ways to solve problems than rollback wars, I think.
so that means ALL these questions will remain on SO forever, until some mod deletes it or something like that?
Praise the spaghetti monster for roomba!
8:45 PM
@MrUpsidown Questions that don't meet certain activity criteria are deleted by the "Roomba" process.
@MrUpsidown Consider this post that you close voted? It will be deleted in 25 days automatically.
See stackoverflow.com/help/roomba for more info on the Roomba process
Closed questions are deleted more quickly than open questions
Ooops..
@Scratte missing a trailing slash there
@TylerH You mean period.
8:47 PM
@TylerH I've never used vi for real, so I'm confused about the syntax :)
@MrUpsidown You might find the Roomba Forecaster userscript helpful, I know I have. It provides a forecast for every question. View enough questions and you'll soon get a feel for how Roomba works.
Yes, reading this now. Thanks.
@Scratte ew, vi? no thanks
@TylerH I've never used the s/../.../ anywhere else but in vi.
What about questions that have been answered (when they probably should be closed)?
8:49 PM
sed?
@MrUpsidown Questions with accepted answers will never be deleted automatically.
@IanCampbell notepad++ offer a point&click interface ;)
The forecaster says no. I'm not sure why.
Ah, silly me. It's open.
Questions with answers will only be deleted if they are closed.
8:51 PM
@MrUpsidown No.. it will not roomba
Ok I'm done reading Machavity's election nomination, now on to Makyen
that's sad
both the Q and A are bad IMO
Well, that's why we're all here, right? To close questions so roomba will take care of them.
By the way is @AnnZen the only person that uses the phrase "funeral request" or is it common lingo here?
@MrUpsidown if you think a post is bad, the appropriate option is to downvote and or closevote it/flag it for closure (or other appropriate action if an answer)
@user1271772 it is not common lingo here
8:53 PM
@TylerH It can be ;)
@MrUpsidown We don't close Questions because they are bad. We only close them if they do not meet requirements per the help center.
The phrase was invented by @AnnZen yesterday.
@TylerH well in the 2 examples I gave I have close-voted the Q and down-voted both the Q and A
@Scratte that's what I meant by "bad"
@user1271772 I just joined yesterday.
I just joined today.
8:55 PM
@AnnZen We tend to prefer prescribed wording for action requests to minimize confusion. As you probably noted, there was a 30 minute digression here where people attempted to explain to someone what you probably meant :-)
You seemed like a veteran here.
Should we post on Meta, about whether or not we want to continue using the term funeral request?
@user1271772 tyler?
@AnnZen I think Makyen's already responded, but if you would like to have a request of yours removed from the room, it probably will happen faster if you explicitly ask for an RO to "bin" a question or even more explicitly "move it to /dev/null"
@MrUpsidown I think you should read the FAQ in your own time. It's linked in the upper right corner in the room. There are a lot of rules there, but they all makes good sense. If you hang around a while, you'll get a feeling for the room and after you read the FAQ, you'll know what to post here and how :)
@AnnZen No I meant that you (Ann Zen) seemed to be a very experienced user!
8:56 PM
@user1271772 No, that would not be an appropriate question for Meta. Chat rooms generally decide their own operating procedures.
@TylerH I was asking @user1271772 about the veteran.
Veteran = Very experienced
Not necessarily "War veteran"
haha
But you could be a "veteran basketball player" or "veteran SOCVR user"
The Meta community doesn't know or even care, most likely, about what terminology we use for removing posts from one of our rooms.
8:57 PM
@Scratte I have read it. Was my question off-topic for this chatroom?
@user1271772 that doesn't seem needed, we have our own mechanisms to govern our operation, mostly by having it as a topic in a roommeeting. See also: socvr.org/room-info/room-meetings/info
I came here because of Machavity's election nomination had a link to SOCVR chat room, and first thing I saw was that Ann Zen made a "funeral request" so it seemed like she was a veteran, using esoteric lingo.
"support and discussion about reviewing and coordination of site-wide cleanup efforts" - I think that's what I am ultimately trying to achieve and understand...
When's the next room meeting @rene?
when there are enough topics to discuss
8:59 PM
Ok you edited your comment to give the url
@MrUpsidown No.. :) If you already read it, you can post a request :) Any question about moderating posts can be discussed here. But I'm not a Room Owner here. I just hang out :)
@Scratte Also, everyone here is a Git except Scratte ;=)
@halfer Hehe.. I didn't install it yet :D
:=p
We'll wear you down eventually
We'll turn you into a proper Git, just like Linus.
@halfer I have already changed a lot since I started hanging out here. I'm sure I'll be making my own drivers in a few years ;)
9:04 PM
Good work. I need to get myself a little project, to alleviate lockdown boredom.
I don't have much focus these days, but I am working on it.
@halfer There are project in a different room, where we make user scripts and double-beep is trying to make a vandalism bot come alive again, if you need projects :)
@Scratte Nice. I think I have some ideas in fact, and I have a friend who is encouraging me to dive into AWS and get a certification.
I also have a variety of self-learning things I would like to do, just not much "oomph" to start them.
I need to drink more coffee!
@halfer Funny. I was studying for a certification when I started out here.. but then Stack became it's own project, and my studies kind of went on the procrastination shelf :(
@Scratte It is easily done. I like editing here because it is broken up into small satisfying pieces of work.
Doing a project requires way more concentration ;-)
@halfer Yes, I get that. I always start up huge projects and then I stress myself out when I never finish them :(
9:10 PM
I just flagged that question as not an answer. Why was it supposed to rude or abusive?
@AnnZen How can you flag a question as not an answer?
@Dharman Typo*
@AdrianMole I neither fed nor watered anyting. Not that I am aware of at least...
@Scratte Ah, it is a common enough trait, I do it all the time. commitstrip.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/…
9:27 PM
@halfer It's so bad :( One day I'll be 90 and I'll not even have finished lunch :D
lol
just went for a big Mak/ch with a side-order of Dhar man that felt good
3
You've eaten nearly half the candidates? oh my... :p
if ever there was a time to use a George Takei, oh my...
@JonClements Feeling left out? There are lots of ballots left for puppy ;)
9:38 PM
I've actually got some chocolate cake in the fridge... ummm....
nah... off to bed shortly... don't think that's a good idea...although... wouldn't hurt that much... licks lips
@JonClements Chocolate isn't so good for dogs, don't do it!
Anyone here uses a program to piece together proposals?
9:55 PM
@AnnZen You mean to post requests here?
@Scratte yes?
@AnnZen Yes, there is one. It's linked in this message. I think this installs it directly. I'll see if I can find another url
@Scratte What does it do?
Here's the link to the repository. It adds a link to all Questions. When you press it you get this nice UI. The message defaults to the close reason you've given the Question. When you press the blue button, it posts the request here.
@Scratte Oh. Well, do you use it?
10:02 PM
You can hover over the text area and it will give you a long list of reasons. You just enter the one letter shortcut and it will enter the test.
@AnnZen Yes, that was my screen shot :)
The request generator was made by multiple users, most I have never "met". Makyen had evolved it a lot, if I understand it correctly, and is currently maintaining it.
You can always add extra text in the text area too, if you want your request to have more information for the room.
@Dharman He/she wants you to delete that page entirely! ;=)
@Dharman What does "noice" mean?
@Scratte I have my own.
It's a crazy way of pronouncing "nice"
10:08 PM
@AnnZen I personally write my room requests manually
@Scratte Cockney (London) accent, I think
Noice. A slang word for "nice"
pronounced with an exaggerated Australian accent
@Dharman Ohh.. being foreign to English I was considering a typo of noise, but that didn't make sense. Psst: you forgot to capitalize the initial "i" in your edit.
@AnnZen Heh.. you made your own request generator in less than a day :) Awesome :)
@Scratte I guess I abused it yesterday :p
Just for giggles, I am going to start adding "hope this isn't helpful" to my answers.
@halfer I was going to add "Don't try this:"
10:12 PM
Ha ha!
Also, to be really confusing, preface all answers with "IIDRC"
(Get out of that one)
If I Don't Recall Correctly :)
Darn it :=p
I'm still contemplating "Why the upvote?" as a standard comment.
@JohannesKuhn I'm going to start editing based on faulty conditionals too, so things like "I am providing my code below if you can help".
10:15 PM
@Scratte Ohh I was tempted to post that comment so many times under my answers.
@Scratte Ooh, we need to start a campaign on that one. Mods surely don't have enough "not needed" flags to handle.
I have been trying for the Unsung Hero, but I kept getting setbacks. I'm not sure how to do it anymore. I can't even create a sock for it, since merging recalculates all badges. But the "why the upvote?" is at least genuine when going for the badge :)
Ooh, how about I edit all my questions to have "No thanks in advance" at the bottom, since we don't like "thanks in advance" at the bottom?
halfer ponders new curation entertainments
It will be edited out as noise either way.
@pppery Noice!
10:24 PM
@halfer You need the proper Thanksâ„¢ <-- trademark.
@AnnZen You might want to check out our tools page on socvr.org. However, if nobody has pointed you to it, the real first stop for the room is the FAQ, which is long, but has a bunch of information about how the room works. You've picked up a lot of it, but there's a bunch of details.
@Dharman I think it should be left alone. For historical significance.
@Scratte I'll make that "My Tanksâ„¢ are advancing"
Hmm, I sense a tiny bit of sarcasm there
10:28 PM
@Dharman I agree with Ian. It's in a quote too.. it looks like it came from an email or something.
It was copied from the link.
The absolute best part about that is that "I hope this helps" is literally part of that Doug Robbins' signature and was copied into the answer.
It is precisely the problem you are trying to fight which has been propagated into an answer from outside the site.
@Dharman After more careful consideration, I've changed my opinion. I say nuke the meaningless signature line.
@IanCampbell Fixed, but I mod flagged anyway. I don't like that the whole answer is just a quotation to off-site answer.
Beautiful
10:49 PM
@JohnDvorak the question has a bounty, so it cannot be closed
Well, get somebody to refund the bounty then!
and get it closed in time next time
Should be mod flagged anyway. The bountied question is nothing like it was when it was answered and should, at the very least be rolled back.
@JohnDvorak We didn't have enough time to even open the link.
Rolled back to #4 - thanks for the notice. Now, the bounty is even more of a mess thanks to it
@halfer I have already more edits this week than you. Maybe if I continue my crusade I will even get the first place this week. :D
10:56 PM
Unrolled
Looks like a mod will be the only way to sort it, unless you have all night.
@JohnDvorak Feel free to re-request this once there's no bounty. As it is, we can't act on this request at this time.
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, bountied question; we're unable to act on the request.
OK, now who has the tab still open to cast a flag?
I don't
@JohnDvorak You can click on the "1 message" link in the move message and be taken directly to the transcript with the message highlighted.
@Dharman are you going to flag it for edit war?
10:59 PM
meh
@desertnaut Yeah, I have flagged for it to be locked
In 6 to 8 days a new mod will be elected and will handle it.
@Dharman As it happens I just noticed I am #6 this week!
Tut tut, I am slacking
Is this question off topic or just bad? stackoverflow.com/questions/62868620/…
11:08 PM
@IanCampbell That's a request for resources/recommendations, it's off-topic.
But in the same way that official documentation requests are on topic, are official source requests not on topic? See this meta post
Does this Q seem on-topic?
@IanCampbell I think it is so poor I am not sure how it could be edited to be good even if we allowed it based on the guideline you mention.
Good point, maybe I should just look at it as too broad and move on with my life.
Thanks
@Machavity No. I see nothing regarding programming there.
11:11 PM
@IanCampbell Yeah, I would. Feel free to add a comment underneath for a little guidance if you want (it's mistagged and I'd like to see the OP do some searching of their own).
@Machavity Should we migrate it to stats?
@Dharman Too old. It was in NATO
Wouldn't that question be more ai.SE?
@IanCampbell Possibly. Feel free to leave a comment if you know for sure
I found similar questions on Stats so I suggested that
Almost double the number of questions on ai.SE. I left a comment with a caveat to check the help center.
11:20 PM
Works for me. We've tried to be helpful and welcoming
One more satisfied SE customer?
How can a user who has earned just 500 points from 40+ upvotes, and a few accepted answers, have already awarded bounties totalling 250, and have 3 active bounties totalling another 650 rep?
@DavidBuck Through the magic of sock-puppets
But even if there are voting irregularities, I can't see where the rep has come from to offer the bounties
@DavidBuck There could be deleted stuff or something.
@DavidBuck If you want to see deleted reputation gain you can do so only via API api.stackexchange.com/docs/…
11:34 PM
@Dharman That makes sense now. Bounties offered/given totals 1250, total upvotes through the API is 133, not the 44 on undeleted questions. Suggests sockpuppetry then awarding bounties to other sockpuppets before deleting questions, I assume?
@DavidBuck My guess is as good as yours. I don't even know which account you are talking about.
I assumed I shouldn't mention it here...
If you are concerned then please flag and ask mods to take a look.
I will. Was just befuddled as to where these bounties might have sprung from.
@Makyen I can't believe I never realized you're a candidate! I've memorized all the others :/
11:42 PM
@AnnZen :) Thanks. Yeah, I nominated only a couple of days prior to the end of the nomination phase, so it's easy to have missed me, particularly if you were looking early.
R questions are not explaining anything. I have read so many and I still do not understand anything
@Dharman That's when you do the beginners tutorial.. and the intermediate one.
I figure there's a reason. If it's because it's the norm in the tag, it can be changed :)
Hey, I feel the same way when someone wants me to review a C++ question. I have only one thought, Skip.
@AnnZen That's a little funny :) I was waiting for it, and it happened while I was at a family gathering. But I was so exited to actually see that Makyen did nominate :)
11:46 PM
@IanCampbell I have that with everything.. even my own two tags sometimes :(
Maybe one of these days it will inspire me to learn C++.
Different tags (programming languages) certainly seem to attract widely differing populations. The C++ tag seems one of the 'grumpiest', whereas "R" and python seem far friendlier and more tolerant of dupes/typos.
I think SO should 'normalize' reputation across different tags. ;P
Huh, where are my close votes?
Maybe C++ should be less grumpy
I'm out Dharman, please wait 9 minutes
@IanCampbell Then it wouldn't be C++. We like being grumpy.
11:51 PM
I still have delete votes though.
I've heard Haskell is the best tag. There are no off-topic Question in Haskell :)
@Scratte Just audits.
@AdrianMole Hmm.. maybe I should try to find out if there are any closed Haskell Questions :D
I closed one once (via review).
... it was reopened within the hour.

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