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1 hour later…
M--
M--
02:34
@pkamb no worries, I was just wondering.
o/
03:20
o/
user10957435
03:45
That weird moment when you misspell comma as coma, as in C++'s coma operator...
That weird moment when you find a legitimate use for C++'s comma operator...
user10957435
@CodyGray I hear boost overloads them. Of course, I would imagine function calls use them. Otherwise, I'm not really sure of a good one...
It's not a comma operator when it's used to delimit arguments in function calls.
user10957435
I had this weird suspicion you'd say that. What is is actually in that context?
Which, coincidentally, leads to an interesting phenomenon whereby the comma operator has lower precedence even than itself. If you want to use the comma operator within a function argument, you must parenthesize it.
Uh...just a comma. Not an operator.
user10957435
03:54
@CodyGray Like, it's just part of the syntax?
Variable declaration lists (e.g., int x = 0, y = 5; and argument lists (e.g., foo(x, y);) use commas as separators, but those commas aren't comma operators.
I guess you could say that. They're just separators. I don't know what the standard terms them. You'd have to ask a .
user10957435
Maybe I will some day.
user10957435
@CodyGray That sort of makes sense.
There is a very good reason, @Chipster. You mentioned it earlier: the comma operator can be overloaded. If that was a comma operator in argument lists, you could easily break the language.
user10957435
I heard that overloading the logical operators will do weird things like remove short circuiting if you overload it.
user10957435
03:58
@CodyGray Yeah, I recon it would. This way, it behaves like I'd expect it to.
user10957435
I think I heard it from the operator overloading idioms, but that is a good resource too.
Oh, that operator overloading C++ FAQ is outstandingly useful.
user10957435
Best on the web, that I've seen anyway.
Yeah, you don't get any better unless you buy Scott Meyers's books. (Which you should also do, if you're a C++ programmer or fashion yourself as such.)
user10957435
04:06
I haven't, actually. My book was written by Tony Gaddis, I think.
His goal is not to teach C++. It's to document patterns, idioms, and best practices that you should be using (or not using) when you write C++.
His books assume you already know the language.
"Effective C++", "More Effective C++", "Effective Modern C++", and "Effective STL"
user10957435
Ah. Well, my school used Gaddis for teaching it. It was okay, I think, though I think I've learned more about the language itself from reading here. I might probably pick up one of Meyer's books some day.
Last book I read by a Gaddis was this one, which is a bit different. Also highly recommended, if you like, um, dry, boring, academic books about history. Which I totally <3.
Most books purporting to teach C++ suck.
Can confirm, Meyers' books are great
user10957435
@CodyGray lol. I actually love history too, so maybe...
04:13
This one is a gentler version, not designed as a multi-thesis-length academic study. More popular interest. I've read that one, too.
But I could give history book recommendations all day.
user10957435
Yeah, he also wrote a Python book too, which my school also used. It was decent, but I'm not a Python expert. His C++ book was cool at the time, but again, left something to be desired.
That's why I moderate a programming... wait.
I don't know if there are any Python books. The Python community doesn't maintain an Officially Sanctioned Rule-Breaking Book List Question like the C++ community does.
user10957435
I'm actually not up on my cold war history. It's kind of a blank spot for me. That and WWII, though I'm getting better at the latter.
@CodyGray Be careful going down that road. You yourself warned against it
user10957435
Wait, you have a degree in history! That's cool. Wouldn't have pegged you as the type. Would have guessed you were an engineering major...
04:17
@Das_Geek Did I mention I effectively have a minor in chemistry, too? Formally undeclared (because, what's the point?), but...I took 18 hours of organic chemistry, plus a smattering of other chemistry stuff. At one point, I considered majoring in chemistry, but physical chemistry would have done me in. I am not much of a math person.
user10957435
But I am wrong...
Definitely wrong. I hear there's math in engineering.
@CodyGray Yeah I'm happy I never had to do organic chem. Was one class away from a physics minor, but I'll be damned before I take a fluid dynamics class
Indeed. And damned after it.
user10957435
Yeah, that's true. Ironically, I love math, but am not the best at learning it formally. Youtube has been a better teacher for me when it comes to math.
04:19
Amen, brother
I loved calculus, and linear algebra was great in that my differential equation solutions weren't 4 pages of writing out steps anymore
user10957435
My college C++ textbook, ladies and gentlemen. I'm not sure it's the right edition, but that's basically what I used. Taught me everything I know about C++...well except here, of course....
The proofs part was a bit nasty, though. I liked it a lot, but it was haaaard
Ayyy, I know that orange
user10957435
@Das_Geek Calculus is fun, but really strange to me.
I love it. You have to beat a few formulas into your brain, but once you do everything is such a fun puzzle
I liked the theoretical part of calculus. That was fun, interesting, and although it took me a beat, I managed to master it. Actually solving the problems? Meh.
Why does it have a giant orange on the front cover?
user10957435
04:23
@Das_Geek Yeah, he has a python book too... not sure how good or bad it is.
Does the Python book have a big tomato?
Oh boy.
I called it!
@CodyGray Depends on the problems, I think. I was lucky and had some really good profs all though the Calc series. I had a bunch of fun
user10957435
No you didn't. It has 3 tomatoes...
user10957435
*3.5
@Das_Geek Yeah, I think my primary issue with mathematics was that, throughout my entire school career, from elementary on up to college, I had terrible teachers.
When you lack that fundamental background, it makes it that much harder to ever catch up.
04:25
Aren't those tomatillos?
user10957435
Probably
@Chipster I'm still gonna say that's pretty good. Out of all the fruits, I picked tomato, and it turned out that was right. Of course, there was some logic to it; it wasn't just a wild guess.
@Das_Geek Aren't all tomatillos green?
@CodyGray Agreed. One of the best decisions I ever made was to go to community college my first two years. I had profs that were dedicated to teaching and were good at what they did
@CodyGray They can come in orange
user10957435
@CodyGray I'll bite (no pun intended) what was the logic? I don't see it, unless pythons eat fruit...
Oh, you know what, I think they're actually persimmons.
04:27
ohhhh
Yeah they are
Logic was as follows. Theme is evidently fruit. Most fruits are sweet and delicious. Some have a bit of a sour, acidic undertone, like oranges, but they're still sweet and delicious. Like C++. Then there's this weirdo fruit that is totally a fruit, but not sweet at all. That's the tomato. And Python.
Pretty, Pythonic persimmons plastered perpetually on printed publications
so close to perfect alliteration :/
user10957435
@CodyGray Lol.
user10957435
Btw:, i think you're right. They look like persimmons.
Cue the Pythonistas to take out their pitchforks and defend a language where whitespace matters.
04:31
Even better, oranges are hybrids; they're crosses between a pomelo and a mandarin.
Grapefruit would really be a better choice for C++. It's a big language.
And grapefuits are hybrids between oranges and pomelos
Iirc, it was an accidental crossbreeding that led to grapefruits being made
user10957435
I'm confused: How can an orange be a hybrid, and then someone get a different fruit by crossbreeding it with one of it's parents?
Can you name some plant that isn't the result of "accidental crossbreeding"?
Fair enough. Kinda how fruits work
04:35
@Chipster Genetics. You're rearranging the genes in different ways each time you cross them. So you don't get back the original, any more than you can get back a cow from ground beef.
@Chipster I just like to chalk it up to nature being pretty neat
Sigh, YouTube. I can't even tell whether or not these videos are satire anymore.
entirely satire
That video is a decade old
user10957435
@CodyGray So it's like undefined behavior? Once it happens, you're not guaranteed to be able to go back?
Oh, that explains it. Nobody was doing stupid things a decade ago.
04:37
Exactly. "Back in my day" arguments are the most valid of arguments
"You can tell it's an aspen tree because of the way it is."
Yup
That quote was an iconic part of my childhood
Ten years ago, I knew a guy almost exactly like the guy in that video.
How neat is that?
That's pretty neat
And thus the cycle continues >:D
How can there be all this stuff I've never heard of?
04:51
If you want to learn a bunch about plants while being entertained by the thickest Chicaaaaaago accent you've ever heard, watch this guy's videos. Pure gold
05:21
@Das_Geek I just watched far too many Neature Nugget videos, and I'm starting to get the idea that we could make the same things with a theme of using and curating Stack Overflow.
@Das_Geek Wow, yeah. Having grown up in South Texas, that second video brings back a lot of memories (well, minus the Chicago accent).
05:42
@CodyGray Glad you liked the videos haha
06:02
Should this comment be flagged for being condescending?
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica The bot thinks it should be.
It...isn't great. "Do your own homework" comments never are.
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
09:07
What should I do if a user asks the same question twice? See How to get the results in a dictionary of lists format and my comment there. Should I vote to close the new question as a duplicate of the old one?
@Georgy Yes, cv as duplicate
If the question is an auto-dup
 
1 hour later…
10:24
Plop folks
@Kyll plop spearrel! Throws him towards a puppy. Misses puppy very much
I am shutting down, so I cannot list them now... I already cast delete votes
misses puppy a lot, very much in pain because of it (and also because of landing in wall)
11:00
Why weren't those caught automatically?
Kudos, gents
Happy Friday
11:14
@DalijaPrasnikar Yes, it's the dup target. It is the main reason to ask to delete the question too. But the at least the answer has to go
@DalijaPrasnikar should we flag them all?
Hmm, SO is under naked girls attack
Someone wrote a smart bot I guess
@AndrejsCainikovs a bot maybe, but not very smart. :P
11:25
And there is smarter than the smart. They are immediately deleted now, I see :)
you're welcome
I had to rush back from my supper because I couldn't delete them fast enough on mobile
keep flagging, I can insta-nuke accounts using my userscript
claps
did you know mods also have a rate limit on deleting users? :S
5
Oh?
hah, the spammers managed to fix their broken link
now I'm gonna search for previous posts where the spam posts were nuked before I got to the accounts
shit now it's 1 new account and 1 new post a second
I can only delete one account per 3 seconds
$h!# just got real.
ok, I upgraded my userscript. I now have an "under spam attack" mode
did they give up already? I was just getting started
7
<terminator voice> they'll be back.
Midtime score: Samuel Liew - 1 , Bot - 0
current tally: total 90 accounts nuked
12:16
@SamuelLiew nice!
^The message for the duplicate should've be 'Doesn't this answer...' instead of 'Does this answer...' ;)
14:26
@Vega make that harassment/abuse. (Dutch native speaker here) It's a rather racist comment about the Eritreans
Thank you :)
@Vega Seeing the last SD report was from the same account, and they accepted the answer they commented this on, do we flag for a "compromised account"?
I see... The translator wasn't that good
There were two SD report from the same account. I was hoping with this comment, the account would be deleted?
@Vega it has older, good contributions. I custom flagged for possible account compromisation
@Adriaan "Compromised" - hacked? Sorry I am slow and dumb :(
14:31
@Vega yes, or left it open on their PC to have someone else mess with it
Definitely, I would flag too
15:11
weird, I just got 5 announcer badges awarded last night
@Vega You're right, I did see the lighter green on the "you earned rep" toast
@TylerH Yaay :)
@Adriaan I was going to say the same (almost) chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/48100608#48100608
@Adriaan ah nice
But I was quick enough today to save a kitten from drowning (for real)
15:38
badges outline got a bolder border as well in the activity tab on the profile
are questions about using regex to search/replace within an IDE on-topic? o.O I always get hesitant with IDE q's
@treyBake Yes
@Machavity ty :)
@Vega Good job! What happened?
16:47
@Makyen The kitten probably had bread trapped around its neck. Er, wait...
16:59
If i find a question that is already closed due to some reason, but I think it should be rather marked as a duplicate, what's the best course of action? Specifically, I think stackoverflow.com/q/59324091/1092820 is a duplicate of stackoverflow.com/q/57080210/1092820
17:09
@Ruzihm Close the tab and move on. This question will be deleted automatically in less than 10 days and everyone including you will forget about it. However, if you were to find a really good question, which was closed for a reason other than a duplicate and you strongly feel it should be salvaged then you can mod-flag explaining the situation. Mods can either reclose it or merge the answers into the target.
@Dharman makes sense. Thanks!
@Ruzihm There is also the opposite. You might see that sometimes we delete duplicates. Some gold-badge holders swiftly single-handedly close questions as duplicates, which hold no value whatsoever. You can request the worst of them here for us to take a look at. Many can and should be removed, but the majority can stay on the site to be a sign-post for the target duplicates.
17:26
@Ruzihm what is c# about that?
@rene the unity-side code would be in c#
Hmm.
Your re-tag made that I wielded my c# hammer
It should have been tagged c# in the first place. imv a question asking how to code a network/communication client in a specific framework should tag the language that framework uses.
sure
Is there a way I could reliably find out which posts are marked as duplicate of a given post?
17:35
@Makyen The four of them were playing around the fountain. I arrived just at the moment when one of them was pushed in the water. I run and scooped the kitten from the under water. It was a matter of seconds. He was shocked and wet, but all safe. I brought him at my room to dry with a towel. Then feed him. He was all right when return to his mom :)
17:51
@Vega I'm glad to hear it. It sounds like it was a close thing.
18:05
@Dharman The SEDE query is the most reliable. For a quick check, I click on the "Linked" in the sidebar, then look at how many of the listed questions' titles end in "[duplicate]".
@Makyen Thank you. Yes, he was at the bottom of the water. At 3 weeks old he would not be able to come out of the fountain bassin. I am happy for have been at the right time
18:29
@Vega Yep, it's lucky you happened to be around at the time and saw what was happening.
18:46
@Machavity Could you fix the duplicate here, please? stackoverflow.com/q/56419178/1839439
19:10
@Vega No, if anything, it should be a statement: "I believe this answers your question: <link>"
@CodyGray Yes, I was ironising, because it was a too obvious duplicate
@Dharman Fixed
@Dharman Just leave a comment on the question, linking to the question you think it's a duplicate of.
@Machavity Thanks. This solves the problem too.
19:14
@Vega Just looked it up, and now angry because it turns out that "ironising" is in the dictionary.
Verbing nouns weirds language.
You don't like boating? ;)
Sorry for making you angry :)
It's not really your fault. I was mostly angry because I was thinking about, "Does this answer your question?"
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica He clearly likes the starboard :P
19:33
So, I have a problem. I'd like to earn the Warm Welcome hat on SO, so that I will have 3 secret hats, and therefore (I believe) get a 4th secret hat. But my problem is, I've been unable to find any questions from new users that I think merit an upvote.
Every one of them I find, I end up closing instead. :-(
halp!
@CodyGray Can it be a New contributor or do they have to be brand new today?
@CodyGray closing as off-topic: not related to closing questions :-P
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica Not entirely sure. I'm guessing that anyone branded as a "New contributor" is sufficient.
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica New to the site itself, not SE in general
Man, I can't find anything in the C++ tag.
19:42
There are two reasons why this is relevant: (1) I've had no problem earning this hat on other SE sites. Many of the questions there merit upvotes. Thus, it's not just me who's a curmudgeon. (2) If all the new questions I look at should be closed instead of upvoted, that suggests a [feature-request]...
I looked in C++ and assembly, because those are currently my go-to tags.
@CodyGray Have you tried tag?
I've never looked at the tag in my life, so...no. I wouldn't know how to judge a good question there, really.
I don't understand why nobody else has the 2020 New year's hat. It's so easy to get!
@TylerH Thanks, deleted those noisy comments and that NAA there. Is that why you linked it?
19:45
well I figured it was easier than flagging and saying "go look for my current flags"... innocent whistle
@CodyGray I will let you in on a secret: there are none.
no, I'm looking for questions asked by 'new contributors' that at least don't seem immediately off-topic to me as someone who doesn't really know C++ or related tags
You've set that bar so high! How could anyone ever meet it?
You want the question to not immediately seem off-topic?!
Found one! I hope it counts! It's a new user, asked 9 hours ago. A C++/Windows question that includes an MCVE and quotes the compiler error message.
I expect you to apply your domain knowledge to take it the last mile, at least
@TylerH I read "take it the last mile" as "edit the question into shape"....
19:51
that'd be an extra nice outcome
:48108929 Another time, it's also possible to edit your chat messages. The edit button is in the same popup as the delete button. Like deleting, it's only possible to edit for 2 minutes after posting the chat message.
Wait, what? You can only delete within the first 2 minutes of posting?
Yep
chat sux
Wow, yeah. Well, forgive me; I'm new here.
@CodyGray Yes, only moderators can edit or delete after 2 minutes. The only other thing that's allowed to non-moderators after 2 minutes is that ROs can move the message into any room in which the RO can post messages.
19:56
I knew ROs couldn't delete other people's messages, which is why they have to move them into a "trashcan" room instead, but I had no idea that users couldn't delete their own messages.
I...may or may not have wrongly declined a chat flag asking for a message to be deleted in the recent past.
@Makyen I assume people use scripts that only read when the chat message is posted so I deleted the one with a malformed tag
that would allow 10ks to post rude messages without fear of retribution
Same as on the main site, @JohnDvorak. It can happen, unless and until someone catches you, then they flag a moderator and we bring the smackdown.
@Ruzihm At least the main scripts we use take editing into account. I'm not aware of any which don't handle edits.
@Makyen neat, thanks.
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica !! <3
...good odds that's a sockpuppet account for someone else.
wonders if that's an admission of guilt
flicks on the interrogation lighting
Nah, just my cynicism. Sadly, confirmed to be a disposable account by looking at mod-only information...
Oh well, sockpuppets who ask good questions deserve rep, too!
nevermind, closed while I was typing this :)
20:04
Love you socks, they provide important functionality.
They keep my head warm.
they never seem to stay warm long enough unfortunately
I still think Winter Bash should have a secret hat that you earn by having one of your sockpuppet accounts deleted by a moderator.
M--
M--
I have this question stackoverflow.com/questions/53509063/… that I asked some time ago and I think it can be off-topic
wanted to ask for your insights...
20:12
Mh
Yeah, seems like it would be a Superuser question. It's not about programming.
Yeah I don't really see how this knowledge could be stricly programming-related
But I would guess the answer is "any Microsoft service that isn't headless and thus runs under explorer.exe which is the GUI for Windows", more or less...
so it's a good thing I didn't try to answer it :-P
M--
M--
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica should I attempt for migration. @CodyGray your input is appreciated
It's too old for migration
20:13
Not sure if they would migrate that or not. I think a CM would have to do it
I wouldn’t migrate it even if I could. The answer makes it an SO question.
M--
M--
@TylerH yeah, that's why I am asking a mod (cody) because it needs a mod
Mods don’t have the power to migrate questions more than 60 days old, either.
You could make it an SO question by emphasizing the context of developing a batch script.
M--
M--
20:15
@CodyGray good to know. I will edit to make it a bit better
Or honestly, leave it be? I know it's always heh to have a wart, but it hasn't seen much activity in a year now
I agree that it seems like a SU question, but knowing the answer, and especially with it actually being posted, I think it’s pretty clearly outside of SU’s domain n
@M-- If you want to keep it on SO, I think an important point is indeed the context: Make your problematic programming, not general Windows stuff
M--
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@TylerH #rub_it_in_my_face jk
General Windows programming stuff is OK
20:18
@CodyGray I wouldn't go as far as saying that... at least it's not off-topic =p
If you want the answer to assume a programming context, then asking on SO is reasonable. Ask on SU if you want the answer from a user perspective.
^ SU*
“How do I upgrade my CPU’s microcode to prevent Meltdown attacks?” vs “What does the microcode update change on my CPU in order to prevent Meltdown attacks?”
@Kyll Yes, typing on mobile. Autocorrect is biased.
Not sure what to do about this! OP's original Q was closed so they've posted a whole series of sub-questions. Here's Part 1. Is this OK?
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica In theory? Yes, that’s OK. It’s what we want them to do: break up a “too broad” question into smaller, more reasonable questions.
As for what to do, evaluate each question independently. Is it reasonably scoped? Is it clear? Does it contain enough info to answer?
20:25
The meta text is unnecessary for sure, though.
And please please please don’t abuse inline code formatting for emphasis!
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica In and of itself it is okay. Judge each sub part in isolation.
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica I would post a comment to thank the user for their doing, and make Baum's point: The Meta text should be a comment. You may want to edit it out, or leave the user to do it for themselves (the tone of the first paragraph might have been slightly pissed)
@CodyGray Oops! The inline code format was an error - I used backticks instead of apostrophes. Sorry.
@Dharman Please avoid taking individual actions on posts being discussed, it makes synchronization of efforts very hard
20:28
@Kyll ooops, sorry. I saw noise and I wanted to edit it out. Didn't think of the discussion here.
Agree with @Kyll. (And also @Nathan, because he repeated what I already said :-)
… looks like 23 separate questions coming up! (See OP's comment in the original.)
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Thank goodness for rate limits
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Well, honestly, if they can pull off 23 good quality questions in a row, they'll deserve the upvotes =p
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica That's not necessarily a bad thing. Looks like this information is a little harder to find so having it in little parts like this on SO could be a really good thing.
20:30
@CodyGray That would be one useful feature. =D
Awww. :(
@Kyll indeed
@Ruzihm Are you certain that is on-topic for Stats? Do you have any familiarity with that site’s scope?
We already have mods. They act as rage limits.
But who limits the mods’ rage?
OP's comment here doesn't look promising!
@CodyGray not completely. let me double check then get back to you
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Provide guidance. This might be because of automatic checks on questions being asked, triggered by the copy/pasted text at the beginning. You might want to invite them to a chatroom.
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica I’d like to see them try!
tbh the original question looks pretty great, it'd be a waste for OP to be discouraged
Might also be the titles that were too close
@Kyll is reading my mind. Brb while I get the tin foil hat.
20:35
@Kyll TBH, I know very little about OpenGL, so I'm probably not the best user to engage with OP.
99% sure the title match is what blocked submission. Moved those comments to chat so anyone who wants to help can do so.
Okay, I can do it if ya want
@CodyGray Comiiiing
@CodyGray so, looking for precedence, I found this question which seems to be analogous (if written by someone more knowledgable) stats.stackexchange.com/questions/380623/…
Don’t need to be an OpenGL expert. He needs an SO expert.
@Kyll - Maybe suggest posting 1 or 2 Qs and waiting to see how they're received?
20:36
@Adrian-ReinstateMonica Something like that yeah
@Ruzihm I guess I’m just not convinced of either (1) that it is off-topic for SO, or (2) that it would be well received on Stats anyway.
20:49
wheeze, wheeze, okay. Provided guidance. Need coffee now =p
"Downvoted just for copy-pasted prefix of the question. " Maybe I should have edited it out of all the questions. The OP is now suffering because of the noise. - stackoverflow.com/questions/59329153/…
Actually people gave them some very sound advices. For example comments here: stackoverflow.com/questions/59329314/…
@Dharman Yes, please edit...
Nicol Bolas knows what’s up, plus is a subject matter expert. I suggest following his lead.
In general, even if you think you’re gonna need to ask follow-up questions, you should wait and actually ask them as follow-ups. When the question was closed as “too broad”, the approach should have been to pick out the first question and ask that as a new question.
Having the answer to that may well change whether the other 5 or 6 or 42 questions (depending on how you count) even need to be asked, and certainly how they are asked.
Guidance was provided, everything has been explained and laid out. Nothing more to do for now I guess.
Yeah okay no disengage
That's enough discussion on this topic, guidance has been provided and subject matter experts are on it (and mods). The situation is getting heated, we're dropping out
20:58
Argh, what a mess.
21:10
How much longer until we’ve deleted all the PHP+MySQL questions, @Dharman?
@CodyGray Don't worry, new ones keep coming every day.
I have a list of around 600 posts that I need to tend at some point in time. At the moment, I am trying to clean up some messy duplicates.
@CodyGray I have a list if you need somewhere to start
@Machavity Hoo boy. That needs bigger guns than I have.
@Machavity I wouldn't mind if all of these questions from that list disappeared. They are either closed as incorrect duplicate or refer to a very old API
That’s the kind of thing you need a tool for.
21:15
@Dharman Actually most are just lazy. "I have this error, let me just dump it on Stack Overflow to get an answer". Google actually gets that one 100% right
And really suggests that something is rotten in the state of that API/tooling/documentation. Ever heard of the “pit of success”? Evidently not.
@CodyGray Actually I have not?
@CodyGray I have now.
Oddly enough it's not really documentation. The function returns a result object or false on failure. Yet people trying to use the result object without checking to make sure the query didn't fail
A lot of that are tutorials that teach you the basics of how to query a result set but never bother with the details of error checking
And the most important thing is that you should not check! Just switch on the stupid error reporting. Why on earth is it disabled by default?
21:19
Pit of success is the idea that you want to make it as easy as possible to succeed, so that users will tend to fall into it, even if by mistake. Make the correct approach the easy and obvious one, and the wrong approaches difficult.
@Machavity 90% of questions could be answered by a single duplicate saying "check for NULL to see if something's gone wrong", so it really isn't just php. (I'm kind of tempted to make that duplicate but I don't know how you make such an obvious omission into a question)
@CodyGray Oh I see, thanks for the info
Just take a look at the cumulative score of mysqli questions.
https://i.sstatic.net/jyhsJ.png
@DavidW 90% of Internet security could be summed up as "We'll do that later"
@Machavity Surely you mean Internet insecurity?
21:22
I don't ask in this room for every bad question to be deleted, but I do keep track on my website. It tells me a lot of statistics, but I also intend to come back to some of them in future. Link: so.dharman.net/questions/badness
So the problem is functions that return error codes. That’s not helping people to fall into the pit of success, because they’re too easy to ignore or forget to check.
In SAP we use another awful language called ABAP. There you have to check not the return value of function calls, but the return code of each statement. IF sy-subrc = 0. WRITE 'Success!'.
@Machavity Same as blaming C or C++ for programmers overrunning buffers or dereferencing invalid pointers. Programming is hard; nobody ever said it was easy.
Good answers there, though.
21:56
Heh @Machavity - nice answer and good discussion contributions. PHP is still fugly, though ;)
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