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00:06
Well, that's a first - i.sstatic.net/WasA3.png
Finished my time in the queue for the day before anyone else cast a single vote
It has only been 7 minutes, TylerH, tame your horses
sorry, I just did 40 at like 6:50 so I figured I would wait a few mins for the UTC day to roll around
"burnout", my ass...
I had del privs for less than 3h and I didn't cast more than 8 delete votes
@Dharman btw have you seen the tools page? stackoverflow.com/tools
(prepare to lose all your del votes too quickly)
@TylerH Yes, some of it is pretty useless, but I saw some good tools there.
user10957435
00:14
So I flagged as NAA. Good call or bad?
@Chipster Defensible from a technical perspective, but let me ask you this: what would you want a moderator to do about it? Asked a bit differently: if you were a moderator, what would you do about it?
We pretty much have two options: we can delete the non-answer (thus validating the flag), or we can decline the flag (thus leaving the answer in place). There is a third option in certain cases, and that is to convert the answer to a comment, but that one is way too long for a comment, so that option is out in this case, leaving you with either delete or not-to-delete.
user10957435
@CodyGray Delete it probably. It's an attempt to reply.
You always have to balance your decision to delete with whether you are destroying value. This answer got 143 upvotes, only 3 downvotes. Clearly, people have found it to be extremely useful over the years.
user10957435
@CodyGray That's true. That's a good way to look at it.
I point this out because flags on posts like that are always really hard to deal with.
I'm very hesitant to destroy value by deleting an old, high-scoring answer. There needs to be a pretty compelling reason for me to do so.
user10957435
00:19
So that's why a lot of NAA flags either get declined or aged away. It's not that those flags are wrong, there's just no good way to handle them.
That's...probably not why.
The more likely explanation is that your NAA flag was handled by a moderator, who tend to take a fairly strict view of the definition of "answer".
user10957435
@CodyGray An attempt to reply to another answer I guess isn't a compelling reason? If I were to answer that today, it would quickly get down-voted, commented, and deleted almost instantly.
Yes, it would. That's why this is hard.
Do you risk shooting yourself in the foot by taking an overly restrictive view of your own rules?
By "compelling", I meant that there needs to be evidence of harm to cancel out the clear evidence of that answer adding value to the site.
user10957435
@CodyGray Do you mean does strictly following rules give you possibilities to shoot yourself in the foot, or are you saying do you take a harmful action because it follows the rules? I would probably say yes to the first, no to the second.
user10957435
@CodyGray Which I guess this one doesn't really harm anyone, unless it's somehow used to justify that these types of answers are okay by someone else. I guess I should just down-vote then. Feel free to decline my flag. No use it staying in the system. Or can I retract it?
00:29
The former. You have evidence of a post that is clearly adding value to the site and has obviously been found useful to a large number of people. Yet, it does violate a rule that you shouldn't use answers to respond to other people.
I'm not going to be militant about it, but there's definitely some aspect of shooting yourself in the foot by deleting an answer that people have found so useful over the years.
user10957435
@CodyGray Makes sense.
NAA and VLQ flags are generally reviewed first by the community (in the LQP review queue) before they are processed by moderators. Yours hasn't gone into the mod queue yet. And even if it had, there are nearly 400 flags in the mod queue right now, so handling your NAA flag isn't really a priority (sorry). The community may agree or disagree with your flag, and that introduces the possibility that a NAA flag can be "disputed" (mods can't mark it disputed, but reviewers disagreeing can do so).
user10957435
I've retracted it. After @TylerH's edit, it's actually a lot better now.
user10957435
@CodyGray No, it's fine. I understand it's not a priority. I just thought moderators could handle flags on questions/answers if they come across answers with flags on them in the real world. Since you were right there, I just figured you were able to handle it right there. Clearly I'm still learning how the system works.
@Chipster No, we can. I can force-handle it, even though it's not in the mod flag queue. I just didn't see any reason to do so, because I don't have a strong feeling about what should be done.
user10957435
00:34
@CodyGray Got you.
We can always force NAA/VLQ flags to show up in the mod queue, even before the community has had a crack at them. We do this sometimes when we've managed to empty the mod queue and are bored. That's why you'll occasionally see nothing left to review in LQP.
user10957435
@CodyGray Btw: Thanks for taking the time to educate me (and I'm assuming you do that for other people too) of how the system works. I wish more moderators would take the time to do that. It hasn't gone unnoticed.
Of course. I'm glad you aren't frustrated by my attempts to make you think about how you would handle it, rather than just tell you the answer. :-)
user10957435
@CodyGray Well, being perfectly honest, I was sort of frustrated at first. But in hind site, I realize it's actually better for me in the long run if you teach me the proper way to think about it, because I will carry that knowledge with me later, and it will serve me well. So now I actually appreciate it. It has done me good I didn't even realize at first it was doing me!
Yes, it is the double-edged sword of teaching people to think. Hardly anyone likes being on the receiving end of it the first time, but they often appreciate it later. :-)
Works superbly well for dismissing hard, unanswerable questions, too.
user10957435
00:45
What do you mean? How does it apply to questions?
You asked me a hard-to-answer question. I was able to avoid answering it by making you answer it yourself.
user10957435
@CodyGray Got you. Noted.
01:00
> I was 197k few minutes ago and suddenly I am 203k. You spoiled all the fun of crossing the 200k mark
Comment on recalculation blog. lol
01:27
@Makyen Magic?
(still not working here)
What kind of magic are you looking for, @StephenKennedy?
@CodyGray What you got?
Not much these days
Unless downvotes on Meta have any magical powers, then I've got you covered.
01:44
@StephenKennedy Nope, just fully manual. The URRS is mostly working for me, so I went to the cv-pls review page and clicked on "show closed & deleted", then just added all the cv-pls requests for closed and deleted questions to the manual move list, then clicked in the "meta" controls to move the contents of the manual move list to the Graveyard from the search page.
I probably should have also checked on del-pls requests, but I'd earlier done a scan down the main chat page, adding any resolved requests to the manual move list, so I'd already gotten the ones that were visible on the main chat page.
@Makyen If you're around, I've a question for my own edification. On something like that last SmokeDetector notification, would you typically mark that as a false positive? It's definitely not spam, but then again, it's a very lousy question that is in need of closure. What's the approach in cases like that? Or do you just prefer to do nothing?
Rob
Rob
@CodyGray Yep, false positive
02:51
@CodyGray (Yes, FP, as Rob said.) The general rule of thumb for feedback to SmokeDetector (SD) is "If SmokeDetector was implemented as a system-level block, would we want to catch this type of activity? If the answer to that question is yes, you should mark the post" as TP. If the answer is no, then the feedback should be FP or NAA. Basically, SD is intended to catch the sorts of things which should be deleted, or which should never have been posted.
Feedback to SD doesn't deal with a question being on-topic. SD doesn't care about that, unless it's over the line to being spam or R/A (also plagiarism). The nuances of what each site wants for on-topic questions isn't considered, except where the site permits topics which would normally be R/A elsewhere. To a large extent, if the post should be red-flagged, or a custom mod-flag raised, then it should be TP. If not, then it should be FP or NAA. It's not quite a 100% match, but it's close.
Note that from SD's POV, NAA feedback is just a variation of FP, which makes the humans feel better about how they are classifying answers :-) From the system's POV (i.e. for autoflagging), NAA is treated as an FP.
The link in my first message in this string is to SD's Feedback Guidance page, which has more detail about several edge cases.
@Makyen Thanks. I had already read that guidance, but was unsure of how it applied to my question. If it were implemented as a system-level block, I'd have no problem whatsoever with it blocking a question like the one cited above.
03:21
@CodyGray I can understand that, but the question is a bit outside the range that SD is intended to catch. Probably a reasonable way to look at it would be: SD is intended to catch the questions where you go right for deletion, rather than those you close and let Roomba delete later.
04:01
unfriendly NAA (calls other posters "stupid", so nothing too serious) - should I flag NAA or R/A?
I went NAA
@StephenKennedy Although NAA could also be valid, it sounds like it fits "A reasonable person would find this content inappropriate for respectful discourse." Which I'd use probably depends on what else the post says.
@Makyen it's here if you'd like to take a look stackoverflow.com/a/58849164/397817
04:17
@StephenKennedy IMO, it steps over the line to R/A, because it's calling identifiable people "stupid". It also has no redeemable value, which would make me want to edit the rude portion out.
@Makyen Right, and that was more my question. Is SmokeDetector's purview strictly limited to catching questions that should be spam/abusive flagged? And I think you have adequately answered that.
05:02
@StephenKennedy Can the rude part be edited out?
@StephenKennedy Although I guess that the poster should be warned not to be rude - it could merit a suspension if they persist in the behavior
I wish that there was an "unfriendly" flag for answers like there is for comments. It's definitely condescending to refer to other answerers as stupid.
user10957435
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica There is a "rude or abusive" flag for answers.
all my javascripts seem to be hosed again, roomba predictor just says "Roomba..." and all the cv-pls messages here show a "wait" instead of the downvote count ... is it just me?
Nop same here.
05:18
@tripleee There have been issues with the SE API for many hours. They are definitely not resolved yet. Please see this meta for a bit more information, but it merely describes the issue. I haven't seen anything from SE commenting on the problems.
cc @Shree ^
@Makyen thanks
@Makyen Their systems are massively overloaded because some joker triggered a rep recalc for 2.57 million users. See this answer. SE staff said in private channels that they are pretty sure this is related to the API issues. (Also, some people have had intermittent connectivity issues to Meta, but not the main site.) That's why Rob added the [status-review] tag. We suspect this will all settle down in several more hours.
3
05:36
@CodyGray I wouldn't be surprised with the recalc being the cause. I'm just frustrated that they choose to run a task, which is expected to take a considerable amount of wall-time and has no real need to be completed within any set time-frame, at a priority which doesn't allow normal day-to-day activities to proceed unaffected. Basically, I just don' see choosing to impact day-to-day activities as a reasonable choice. Would it really matter that the whole recalc might take an extra hour or two?
user10957435
06:01
Weird bug. I've gotten some up-votes. I'm even getting the rep for them. But it's not showing the green "+x" in my reputation notifications since the last UTC day rollover. I'm going to assume it's related to the SE API and recalculation, so I'm not really worried about it. But it's strange none-the-less.
@Makyen I completely agree. This is far beyond my area of expertise, but reading between the lines, I think there are a couple of issues. First, their system is not really designed to run these sorts of tasks at low priority levels because they have never had a need for that. And I think Nick Craver is wanting to get it all done in hopes of avoiding introducing possible complications.
@Chipster Yup, that's also related to the recalc. See this MSE post by Nick. Basically, the rep recalcs have pushed other reputation-related tasks out of the queue, including updating the global notification system.
More fun fallout includes getting multiple Yearling badges
user10957435
@CodyGray If they're trying to avoid possible complications, they seem to have failed slightly...
They're trying to avoid permanent complications. Temporary complications are apparently fine. It's not like this happens once a month.
user10957435
@CodyGray Yeah, I figured. It's like I say, its not a huge deal, especially since I know they got a lot of stuff going on with the recalc right now.
user10957435
@CodyGray Oh got you.
06:08
Better to have notifications broken for a day or so, than have the entire reputation tracking table trashed.
user10957435
@CodyGray Watch a bunch of backlash happen, and then next month decide to revert everybody back. That'd be a mess..
user10957435
@CodyGray Yeah. That would be bad.
Yeah, that...doesn't sound like something that happens around here. You're thinking of GitLab.
They have trouble solving Constraint Satisfaction Problems because backtracking just isn't in their bag of tricks.
(Get it? Programmer joke!)
user10957435
I don't think I am, but only because I've not really had any dealings with GitLab ;)
Sorry, my sense of humor sometimes requires a backstory. GitLab's CEO recently made a very humble announcement that they had made a mistake, and backed away from their initial plans. This has been brought up on MSE as an example for Stack Overflow to consider following.
user10957435
06:16
@CodyGray Lol. Oh wow. Yeah, I can see why people have suggested following this model. That seems to be what some people were hoping for in the apology from the CEO of SE. But, I don't want to get too much into that whole mess here.
user10957435
Side note, only in academics can a truck hit a pothole, break a rectangular cake into perfectly square pieces, and the all the pieces are still in tact. The only realistic part about this is the customer forgot how wide their cake was (but remembers the with, apparently)!
@Chipster Nice challenging question!
user10957435
lol!
user10957435
See, I learned. Now that is definitely not an answer, and no one has found it useful over the years. So NAA seems more appropriate here.
07:24
Well, that was a very quick jump to 8k. I've gained about 1000 rep overnight, presumably from the question changes which I haven't read yet
An extra 575 rep from one question alone
Good to see questions on an equal weighting as answers
@MichaelDodd Ahhh, but they aren't. I'm not saying they were, just that they're not equally rewarded. Questions get the thing which the asker is really looking for: answers. People, or at least the vast majority of them, don't ask because they want internet points. They ask because they want answers.
The question is, is reputation a reward for the individual, or is it merely a quantifiable measure of your contributions to this particular website?
@Makyen Agreed, but there is a knack to writing a question that's distinct and understandable enough to be useful to others in the future (i.e. canonicals, any other question that has a score of +5 or more)
@CodyGray That's a good question. For some people it is a reward; for other's it's not.
People are, of course, free to interpret and value it as they like. But what do we intend for it to be? What do we want it to represent?
07:35
@CodyGray The latter for me. The magical internet points can only be redeemed on SO, and isn't really much of an indicator of anything outside of SO (unless a prospective employer's interviewer is also a SO user)
but again that latter part feeds into positive contributions
@MichaelDodd I quite agree that writing/asking a good question is a skill. It's really something that most people don't know how to do. Ironically, one of the things that appears to help people learn how to ask, is to answer, because then you have to critically look at questions at see where things are missing, or where they are hard to understand.
@CodyGray Honestly, I'm not sure about that one. What it currently represents is the user's level of participation in the site. However, people see it as representing significantly more.
08:17
Damned I have a brunch of users I check every time I want some dupe/poor questions. Some of them just double their rep.. +1300 +1500 +950. Great! They now have more rep than me.
08:32
@xdtTransform let me warn you that user targeting is a delicate subject and explicitly off-limits in this room. I urge you to leave it at that single statement and not invoke any more discussion on it, at least in this room.
09:20
Am I interpreting this blog post correctly the images tell a tale of more questions being asked, and even more questions being of bad quality than before?
@treyBake That looks like outright spam
@Dharman Yes. Linked text translates to "download software"
Gone with spam
Same website is also listed in user's profile
^ah my bad - just briefly looked and saw language != English haha
09:43
@Adriaan I assumed it was my weak understanding of statistics but that was my conclusion as well.
the new rep change! I'm a 5k user now :D
10:09
@treyBake awesome! Go approve all those plagiarized tag wiki's ;)
I can close questions now...
@rene haha xD I haven't checked out much tag-stuff, now I can cause chaos, maybe I'll swing by :p
@AndyK also awesome. We have a whole queue for you alone ;)
@rene lmaoooo old friend
@rene so basically all questions which did not pass the previous pipeline, but do pass the second one, are of bad quality. Great improvement to get people to the site and hang around indeed...
10:17
Great improvement to get more questions in.
Y'all are approaching this from the wrong end
@Lundin looks programming-y? Even if NO MVCE..
@treyBake No, just because something contains hex it doesn't turn into programming :)
My impression is that these car readers are mostly just a very simple terminal: simple command returns data-dump. There's no real logic available and so they probably aren't programming. Even if it's borderline I suspect they'd get a better answer on mechanics.stackexchange.com
@Lundin that wasn't my logic :p I am sending following ELM237 commands to a Porsche Cayenne is my logic haha - not too familiar with all that jazz, but it's asked like it's an issue to do with some programming
10:35
Both of these questions are about establishing communication over the ODB port of specific car models. How to do that is car specific and has nothing to do with neither programming nor electronics.
Trust me, I'm a CAN bus specialist :) The CAN-bus tag gets very little attention though, so it is hard to moderate these questions with regular close votes. These questions would be off-topic on electronics.stackexchange.com as well, though I believe the mechanics site have accepted migrations of similar questions from the electronics site in the past.
@RiggsFolly Pending edit
10:57
When you see a spam answer, you might check the other answer to see if one spam may have got under the radar.
I do the same. For one liner question no research for old user with reasonable reputation.
People in need for answer using thier exact code, that will not be satisfy by msdn link or duplicate.
People good at making [mre](dump the code) but not good at using answer, that might comment on answers if there is a little typo.

With users with 200+ question, less than 5 edit, less than 5 flag. Sitting with 1k<rep<500 got bump into 3k<rep<1k.
@xdtTransform We ask though, that you do not compromise a room by talking about it here. We are not allowed to target users even for valid reasons.
@xdtTransform What part of do not invoke any more discussion on it was unclear?
11:21
After the SEO consultants we're now in for ASO consultants
@rene What is the difference, if it is not programming related it is off-topic.
this was worth 4k more reputation? :d
all 10 year old off topic questions got 100 % rep bonus
@AnttiHaapala I let out an audiable "wow" on seeing that "d:(9)" annotation
What's the maximum number of delete votes needed on a question? 10?
@MichaelDodd Yup appears to be 10
Does that mean it's a part-responsibility to downvote old questions that no longer match SO requirements? Seems quite unfair that a question that asked "how do I php" that got a 1000 upvotes then vs. new users asking the same questions and getting closed/downvoted
11:32
aaaaaand it's gone. 8610 reputation faded into the ether
I have a feeling we're gonna hear about that one.
@MichaelDodd it didn't faed
because it has been online "for so long" the reputation is kept.
... and I guess it also is so with recalced rep
@AnttiHaapala I'm not convinced that needed to be deleted ... closed yes, but deleted?
offtopic is offtopic
considering it was off-topic when it was asked, the first comment being
> I think you have more luck on superuser.com – Toad Oct 2 '09 at 14:08
Is that even related to any programming language or is just a Linux command?
11:37
unix command.
The 3 most voted questions in are closed. I am not saying that the recalc was not fair, but I see some flaws.
12:01
@Dharman I was more hinting on having that as job title ...
@AnttiHaapala This comment was about the question Kill detached screen session
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null (onebox)
12:22
@Makyen oops did I onebox that errhm :D
12:53
@AnttiHaapala yeah, they are pretty hard to notice ...
@rene they are if you're a good sotizen like me and use all the browser extensions and userscripts :D
:D
Fun fact: "sôt" means dumb in French, so sotizen is very fun to read
@tripleee Just FYI: For a cv-pls like this, it's helpful to include in the request reason something like "see self-answer: used List instead of list". Including such text in the request reason makes it easier/faster for people to evaluate that it's a typo. It also tends to get the question closed faster.
13:10
@Kyll and söt is sweet, cute in Swedish and...
@Kyll not that I'd necessarily disagree with your finding when it comes to my mental abilities ;)
@Kyll In English it simply means Drunkard: en.wiktionary.org/wiki/sot#English
Is this question too broad, and/or a better fit for Photography?
13:30
@Adriaan too broad, I doubt if it will fly on photofraphy.se. I would ask in their chat first
@Dharman Another time, it's helpful to mention something like "see OP's comment agreeing that it's a duplicate" in your cv-pls request reason. Doing so makes it easier to evaluate that it's a duplicate and tends to get the question closed faster.
@Makyen I didn't see that comment :O
@Dharman That would be a good reason not to mention it. :-)
14:37
^^ Clearly the same user
Why post it twice?
yeah, the answer gives it away ..
The questions are also quite similar and the pattern linking two .xls files.
I mod flagged those posts yesterday, let me check on it's status
still pending
@Dharman Oh nice
@AnttiHaapala gimme more =p
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica I flagged as well, pointing out the new answer
14:48
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica: Mod flags require that mods exist to review them :/
I don't know what to do here: 1. Question got answered. 2. Then question got closed. 3. Then question got changed to another one. 4. Then question got reopened. Which leaves an answer to the off-topic version of the question...
You're not allowed to change the Q drastically, rollback
In general, one shouldn't be answering off-topic questions
I would probably rollback changes to original question
But original question was off-topic...
14:52
Rollback and vote for closing :)
rollback and close. They can ask a new one if they need to
On the other hand the question was reopened after edit, so maybe ping the answerer and let them update or delete the answer
@Dharman The answerer didn't visit Stack Overflow for 6 months.
I dunno. I'm kinda inclined to NAA the answer and leave the Q open. He did edit it into shape, which few people ever do
I flagged as NAA
14:54
I would probably go with: 1. Rollback, 2. Vote to close, 3. Provide a comment to OP to open a separate quesiton
That last SD post has now been edited, it appears
true, not sure about python but looks still no MVCE(?)
@CĹ“ur Rollback and close. Questions should not be edited in such a way that they invalidate existing (let alone accepted) answers
@TylerH Oh, good point regarding the "accepted" status.
Or let's see at least what is the outcome of our NAA flags. If the answer is deleted then no need to rollback.
15:02
its about python @treyBake
so close as too broad? ;)
I know it's about Python - I just don't know enough about it to tell if it's no MVCE haha
@treyBake that's what I voted as, personally.
POB would also fit since he's asking for the best way
@robsiemb Voted to reopen. Looks valid now.
@TylerH is this the Python q?
Well now my flag will be declined
15:05
@treyBake er, sorry, assumed you were asking about the one Coeur was asking about
@Dharman You may retract flags
@TylerH ahh noo, was making a bad joke about Python haha
though a declined flag here or there is not a big deal. What's more of an issue is when a mod gets it wrong than your ability to continue flagging
All the pity upvotes after the drive-by flags+downvotes did generate them a large chunk of rep
@treyBake Tanks in advance? Not sure we should be panzering to those sort of questions
15:16
@MichaelDodd :p
@treyBake haha
@MichaelDodd sounds like it could be a good alt-history book where the Allies knew about the Tanks in Advance xD
The community seems so unhappy about the recent changes that they started advancing in the tanks.
12
In such a world, would the Ramones have the song Blitzkrieg Bop?
Still better than tanks in a dance
15:30
I avoid the tank problem entirely. I thinks in advance
@MichaelDodd or suit up in case of toxic waste tanks
16:08
@Makyen binned as tripleee posted the same one just before you (chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/47845120#47845120)
M--
M--
Closed as typo, 4 downvotes, 1 pity upvote, rep = 11 stackoverflow.com/questions/58857807/…
Yeah, let's see how SE responds to these situations
M--
M--
We're already seeing the effect new rep calc system, Thank you Sara, keep up the good work! :|
@SotiriosDelimanolis now that the question is deleted, the user's rep will be recalculated shortly, right? right now it still shows 11
@M-- Deleting the post still keeps the user at 11 reputation. Strange.
@M-- yes
I'm sure it is because they are backed up on all the changes thanks to the rep recalc
16:13
nah, it'll be fixed soon, probably cached
also to compound the issue someone attacked the site last night by abusing the API massively, sending the SQL instances from 10% load to 50-60%, slowing down stuff even more
Nick and Taryn tweeted about being woken up by automated alerts at 4AM in the morning re: it
Migration rejected means it will roomba, right?
@Adriaan I guess so, yes.
@TylerH np. Thanks. If I'd noticed it at the time, I would have deleted or moved it myself. Admittedly, when I see such duplicates from other users, I often get lazy about moving the duplicate request out if I think the request will be complete in a short period of time. If so, I just let the Archiver take care of both of them when they're complete. I don't have strong feelings about it either way. It's mostly just "meh". :-)
If it doesn't look like the request will be complete shortly, then I'll always move the duplicate out.
M--
M--
16:17
@TylerH there we go! you are right, pipe's so clogged, everything's getting backed up! $#!tshow
M--
M--
is it ok to tell a user that we reviewed some other posts from them, and advising them to follow certain rules to keep their questions on topic? (not taking any actions which is obviously targeting them and not OK)... This is an example, I left a comment: stackoverflow.com/questions/58861094/…
That looks like a helpful comment. Good work on not actually targeting them.
@TylerH How could this possibly happen? There are rate limits in place.
I'd assume the limiter can't handle a DDoS attack
@Dharman I dunno off the top of my head, but that's why they call it "abuse" :-)
something about querying all posts ever from SO, 20 times a minute
M--
M--
16:36
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica thx
does powershell have variable variables? o.O Google just takes me to the generic variable info page :/
@JohnDvorak FYI - the question was edited by OP to be in English. Can't speak to whether it's on-topic now or not, though. cc @M-- @SotiriosDelimanolis
I'll vote to reopen
It's still unclear to me
M--
M--
16:58
@TylerH I am not sure if it's on topic (what am I doing wrong??), not campaigning against reopening it, but I won't vote myself.
Can we del it? Yes we can (well - I can't)
5K views in almost 11 years, we don't need it.
Oh yeah! I had the magic touch
I should've voted then instead of hesitating
user10957435
17:36
So I decided to start reading the C++ standard finally. It was cool. I was then able to answer a language lawyer type of question without flopping on my face. It wasn't the best answer there, but at least answered the question. Maybe there is hope for me....
Answering language lawyer questions? Sounds like there is definitely no hope for you, @Chipster.
@treyBake "variable indirection" seems to be the adult term
user10957435
@CodyGray lol. Why no hope?
18:08
Game idea: Phoenix Wright spin-off, with C++ language lawyers instead of actual attorneys
user10957435
Nathan Oliver: Ace (C++) Attorney
user10957435
@JohnDvorak can we write it in C++?
18:28
Waffles
oops that one wasn't meant to go here
M--
M--
Seriously? 2 undelete votes? stackoverflow.com/questions/58857807/…
Must be two of those newly made 10k people, who just received the priv due to recalc.
18:49
If you're having problems using FIRE due to the current SE API issues, you can execute the following command in your browser's JavaScript console for the chat page, which should restore much of the functionality:
$.getScript( 'https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/gh/Charcoal-SE/userscripts/fire/set-minimal-fire-sites-and-fire-user-sites.js' );
If you want, you can verify the source for the script that loads on GitHub.
@Machavity @NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica ^
@Makyen Yep, that fixes FIRE
@Machavity Good. Thanks for confirming it. It should be good for 7 days. If SE is still having problems at that point, then it will need to be run again.
Is this spam?
@Makyen When asking whether something is spam, are we allowed to comment on the poster’s other content, or would that be considered user targeting?
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica It's perfectly acceptable to ask if something is spam, especially if you've found evidence of undisclosed affiliation. If you want to ask about user patterns, please do that in Charcoal, where user patterns are on-topic
19:04
ninja'd. ^ that
Is anyone using this tool? stackoverflow.com/tools?tab=Delete&daterange=last30days I was hoping that we would get a delete queue like we have a close queue.
@Dharman Many users do. I frequently see other 10k users trolling the list and finishing off high delete votes
trolling or strolling?
@SmokeDetector fp-
@HovercraftFullOfEels Once more, can you please review the reopening of this?
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica In general, if the question is about a specific topic and the answer is linking to official documentation for that specific topic (i.e. it's not someone coming in and saying "go use mine, it's better"), then disclosure of affiliation has generally been considered to not be required. An example that's used is that it wouldn't be reasonable to make all Microsoft employees or affiliates declare their affiliation every time they link to official Microsoft documentation.
Obviously, there are a number of situations where that doesn't really apply (e.g. spam seeds and their answers), etc.
But, overall, no, I would not consider that answer to be spam.
@Makyen Another (perhaps simpler) way of thinking about it is, if the answer is not making a recommendation, then disclosure of affiliation is probably not required. There's no recommendation being made when you're linking to official documentation, and there's no recommendation being made in the cited case, because the question has already stated what tool(s) are to be used. (cc @EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica)
@CodyGray That's a reasonable way to look at it. :-)
Are there any rules in SOCVR FAQ about "unnecessary duplicate" del-pls? I was wondering if I should ask for some posts to be deleted, but I don't want to break rules.
user7437719
19:38
@SmokeDetector commands
user7437719
@SmokeDetector help
user7437719
Why this is absolutely DERANGED!
@TomMinor stop
user7437719
Uh oh.. See you later!
@tripleee ow :/ :p
19:42
@treyBake That sounds like an anti-feature. Dynamic declaration and evaluation of variables? Your code smells.
19:53
@Dharman we have no rules against that. Removing duplicates that don't help as a sign post to the find the better canonical are fine here.
@rene Thanks. I have run out of my puny 5 votes today, but I will give an example of a kind of post I meant.
20:11
Looks like SO is offline.
all stackexchange went down
It's the Repocalypse
Too much reputation overflowed the system. Shouldn't have done that recalc...
John Skeet went past infinity, bringing down the servers
2
The revenge of SQL Server...
Seems to be back now.
20:25
@CodyGray Revenge of the Server: The SQL
6
@Machavity of all bad puns ...
Don’t be hatin, @rene. I love bad puns.
I joined this room just to star that pun
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica you read my mind
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica That was some image, and while I was contemplating opening that image the post was nuked.
ugh, bug in the UI. I can't click the text of a flag reason currently for a comment flag in order to select it; I have to click the actual radio button.
@TylerH That's weird, because I can...
@CodyGray seems to be temporal, intermittent
may be related to the API issues
refreshing the page usually fixes it for me
Hard to imagine why server issues would cause a client-side UI bug.
hard also to imagine why API issues would report CORS issues when no CORS issues are present but there you have it...
21:53
I don't even know what CORS is
But Cats On Redundant Scooters sounds like a serious issue
2
@CodyGray praise yourself lucky ...
22:13
@TylerH For the last several months, SE has been using sending responses without a Access-Control-Allow-Origin header as an additional method of rate limiting the SE API. It's been happening without previously seeing a backoff response from the SE API. There's a question on Stack Apps with considerably more detail about at least one symptom. However, I've also seen it under more circumstances than are mentioned in that Q&A.
@Makyen How does that accomplish rate-limiting? Based on what I just read about the Access-Control-Allow-Origin header, it sounds like including it would be a more effective rate-limiter than excluding it.
22:29
@CodyGray Browser security protection measure to prevent malicious JavaScript from different sites affecting the one you're currently on, basically
In unrelated news, I just wrapped up days of frustration in trying to troubleshoot this vendor product. Turns out the reason why testing/previewing touch interactivity on this digital signage software doesn't work is because it literally requires a touch event; click events don't translate even though I'm previewing it in the signage builder app. GF me, running this app on a VM and accessing it via remote desktop...
23:01
@CodyGray Basically, with a browser that's behaving properly, the request won't fully complete when the Access-Control-Allow-Origin header is missing. For things that aren't behaving properly, the request will fully complete. It's possible to have a browser extension that just adds the Access-Control-Allow-Origin to the response header and makes things work.
Which reminds me that I should just go out and get an extension to fix this, or write one that just always adds it for api.stackexchange.com. OK. That's next on the task list.
@Makyen So...it's rate-limiting because it stops working when you do everything right?
Well, I've added a Meta.SE rollup just for good measure
I honestly thought it would be something simple, or prompt a rollback
user10957435
23:17
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica wouldn't "How to resolve a Circular decency?" work here as well? Or does that not cover functions, only classes?
@CodyGray My saying that it's being used as rate limiting is going a bit too far in expressing frustration. It's very likely a bug or misconfiguration, which has the effect of rate limiting. My memory of when this started happening is a bit hazy, but it was at least somewhat close to the time-frame where SE changed how they were handling violations of obeying the backoff rate limiting and imposing IP blocks where such violations occur.
For many days, once you got on the blocked IP list, you were never taken off of it. In fact, they had to manually kick their servers a few/several times to clear that list. The responses given in such instanace are not CORS.
At somewhere around a similar time, I started seeing CORS responses which acted as an effective rate limit. So, I conflated the two, even though it's probably just separate, but somewhat related, issues, rather than directly related.
Nice! I guess I'm reporting things on MSE from now on. :-;
That was... fast
Dang it, and I'd just gotten to where I was ready to test my extension to add the Access-Control-Allow-Origin headers back in. I mean, literally, I was just returning to start testing. lol.
Now there's no need as things appear to be working. :-)
@Chipster Not a fan of using that there since it is more about classes.
user10957435
23:57
@NathanOliver-ReinstateMonica alright. Just checking.

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