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00:14
@E_net4 According to Google Translate it's a GMTC, not spam. Close as unclear I guess.
Can anyone tell me what the current alpha version number of the CV Request Generator is?
00:51
@Makyen This cv-pls generated by Stack Exchange CV Request Generator 1.8.7.0 is odd as the username comes before the question
@StephenKennedy I think that it is because in Arabic script, they read left to right
*Sorry, I meant right to left
Could be
@VFDan It appears the question was last active 5 years ago, or has there been some activity I am not aware of?
01:14
:46213540 I've binned that request for now as there appears to be no recent activity on the question. Please see our FAQ for more information.
@KenWhite There's a pending edit there you might want to review
@StephenKennedy The plain version of the request appears to have the title and username accurately placed in the message. You'll have to copy it into something that either accurately deals with RTL and LTR transitions within a text block, or doesn't handle them at all in order to see where the text actually exists in the message.
I'll try playing around with it a bit, but, currently, the CV Request Generator adds an LTR override at the end of the title and username in order to prevent any titles or usernames containing RTL text or overrides from leaking into the formatting of other portions of the message. The browser should render the title and username in RTL within the message at the point where they exist, but that doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not sure if there's much more that can be done about that.
@Makyen Thanks for the info. I wouldn't worry about it then if I were you - it's an edge case that doesn't matter too much.
@StephenKennedy I tried. :-) The post was deleted during my review - I was fixing the link to inline the image when it disappeared.
01:33
@StephenKennedy np. IIRC, when working on this section of the Request Generator, I played around with several different methods of attempting to get Chrome and Firefox to display such titles/usernames where I wanted them in the text. I didn't find anything that resulted in everything looking great, but the current solution was what resulted in something that could at least be understood, with a bit of effort. Not doing anything resulted in other portions of the message ending up displayed RTL.
"Not doing anything resulted in other portions of the message ending up displayed RTL." That would be fun :)
01:51
Yeah, it made the requests a bit hard to understand. :-)
This is what the request looks like without the LTR overrides.
2
@Makyen Hmm. How about not including the author at all?
02:07
@StephenKennedy That would be possible, and would make it easier to know that the only link is the question. However, it would either need to be something that we do across the board, or we'd have to add code to determine when to have them, or not. Currently, the LTR overrides are just always added, without attempting to detect if there is RTL text or codes to switch to something other than LTR.
02:30
I wonder how often it happens that somebody creates a question meant to be canonical question, and writes a self-answer for it (intended to be the canonical answer), but then somebody else comes along can adds an answer that gets upvoted more stackoverflow.com/questions/11834173/…
…and then somebody else comes along later and creates a new question that gets closed as a dupe of the one that’s meant to be canonical — but the one that got closed as a dupe already quickly has more upvotes than the meant-to-be-canonical question it’s supposedly a dupe of; see stackoverflow.com/questions/56132392/…
03:20
@StephenKennedy I think the easier solution is to have the URRS add some CSS to make them show up in the correct position. Adding .message .content a {display: inline-block;} results in them being displayed in the order we'd expect. So far, it doesn't appear to disrupt anything else. I don't expect that CSS to be disruptive, given the CSS that's used in chat, but I'll keep an eye out while testing.
04:41
@Makyen Yeah, that's a no. I either needed more sleep or more caffeine, because that obviously will have undesirable side effects.
Zoe
Zoe
05:05
@StephenKennedy you use edge?!
05:17
IE6
@Zoe What's wrong with Edge?
You can be too close to it
Zoe
Zoe
05:32
@gparyani what isn't?
 
2 hours later…
07:38
\o
Ciao o/
Would a 20k user consider raising a deletion req for this? 13 DV is rather enough. stackoverflow.com/questions/56138615/…
Zoe
Zoe
It'll roomba though
Righto, thanks Zoe
(If a RO wishes to del my above request, please do)
(It just got another DV!)
07:57
@halfer Also "we want the java program ASAP" but the user hasn't returned to the question or SO in general since it was originally posted 🤔
Can't be that urgent then
08:51
@Adriaan Nah, NPE is the most basic of Java errors. If you're not able to do some prior work to determine if the NPE is within your control, then the dupe almost always applies.
09:19
I see you created a new account to post the same answer as yesterday, which was deleted by a moderator. You should try to understand why it was deleted, instead of attempt to bypass moderation. — tripleee 1 min ago
flagged for moderator attention
10:06
And I fully agree with you, the problem has been already reported to google issue tracker, but their team said that it's not their role and we should contact G-Suite team, people contacted with the team and they got information that is not managed by that team as well. Today I also talked with their support and I was led to "report bug content" button as the best way to contact with the proper team. Here I just wanted to leave information which I previously said to save the time of people who will hit the same problem. — Krzysztof Miskiewicz 12 mins ago
OP is insistent that they should bypass a moderator's removal of their NAA and while I agree that the situation is less than ideal, it seems problematic that Stack Overflow should be on the receiving end of their good intentions
(same as above ^^^^^)
Don't mind me, just plugging this here.
10:25
Who voted to close that? :/
@MichaelDodd It'd have been worse if it was upvoted. There's no harm in voting to close spam.
@E_net4 True, but it's a waste of a close vote that could be better used elsewhere
10:50
^ Uh, does that count as user targeting by Smokey? I deliberately reported that outside of this room.
Either way Mod's acted and called disputed on them.
flags were disputed?
my mod-flag was marked helpful
@double-beep I flagged spam rather than mod-flag
For me that went over the line
no consequence either way though
@MichaelDodd posts meeting some specific criteria for reporting should be okay, if you argue that we can't report a user as a spammer then !!/allspam needs to be disabled or redesigned
@tripleee room FAQ states that !!/allspam isn't allowed in SOCVR, so I suppose he wonders if this is a user targetting
@tripleee It's fine in CHQ else /allspam wouldn't exist in the first place, just unsure if it's an inadvertent violation of SOCVR's user-targeting rule if it ends up being re-reported in batch here
10:56
I guess we could prevent it from reporting here if that is a requirement, but getting this expressed as a Github issue by a room owner would be nice
\o/
~o~
11:07
^#$~!%ό%!~$#^
@double-beep [ SmokeDetector | MS ] Possible luncheon meat detected
@double-beep I did not know that one could do that with his/her arms
@MichaelDodd f
@Lino I won y'all! \ό/
11:34
@MichaelDodd yeah, we debated if our non-targeting users rule would need an exemption for /allspam and then we decided that it was much easier, clearer and better enforceable if we simply banned any user targeting, including the allspam option (/cc @tripleee)
@rene so should we create a PR for Smoke Detector to disable reporting of ... manually reported spam in general, or just !!/allspam, to SOCVR?
@tripleee I haven't seen it go wrong often so there is no need from me personally but if the Charcoal devs are desperate for work, then go ahead.
that's ... not a good characterization of the current mood (-:
If you need a mood I'm often not good company
we don't want to stop receiving manually reported spam nor do we want to disallow !!/report on a single post
(so far as I know/understand it)
@Zoe No, you do
Zoe
Zoe
11:49
@StephenKennedy better end my router then.
@HermanTheGermanHesse seems more like POB?
@HermanTheGermanHesse Primarily Opinion Based
Yes, thought about it but decided for too broad since it isn't asking any specific programming question.
I can be wrong though
12:19
Morning
@rene Yeah, problem here is that I didn't issue the !!/allspam command in here, I did it in CHQ where it's allowed. However SD ended up reporting it back in here, giving the impression of targeting within SOCVR. Probably needs a tweak on SD's end regarding what is reported in this room.
@MichaelDodd doesn't seem entirely trivial so if the requirement is not a common one I'm hesitant to look into it in more detail
@MichaelDodd ah, I see. Not sure what we want here.
@Lino have a @~!#\έ/ύ\ί/ό\ά/ή\ώ#!~@ day!
@double-beep I am still very impressed that you are so flexible with your arms. I can't even straighten them out ~o~
12:32
holy nutballs guys
shog's meta post
just wow
I like waffles.
@IanKemp link?
reprex, pff
@HermanTheGermanHesse the one pinned by Machavity
12:34
@IanKemp it is unclear what you are asking. Can you provide a Minimal, Complete and Verifiable Example Minimal Reproducible example?
Too much onebox
@double-beep you mean a reprex?
@IanKemp please make that so it doesn't onebox
BTW, "No Min-Reprex" in cv-pls would be awful
@rene how?
12:35
I don't really like that name at all
Reprex sounds like an American pharmaceutical product
@IanKemp add . at the end
@IanKemp edit your message to add additional characters
@IanKemp edit it to have something else in addition to just the link in the message
I'm off to the pharmacy... ninjad
12:35
Good job we don't have any ridiculous sounding words like Brexit that
double ninja
A Rep Rex? Totally a rep-accumulating dinosaur.
too late
reprexit
slartibartfast
12:37
i had never read something on meta that was so terribad it made me say "wtf" out loud - until i read shog's post
@IanKemp for later reference, see this guidance: socvr.org/faq#GEfM-not-noisy
@rene ty, i'm guessing there's no room option to disable oneboxing?
@IanKemp you never do code-reviews? I'm on full wtf during those sessions ... yes, out loud.
I love how my comment on Shog's post managed to get 12 upvotes in an hour:
Title suggestion: Min-Reprex: a more awkward name for MCVE
12:39
@IanKemp there is an FR somewhere. It got reprex-ed
@rene this wasn't a code review, this was a meta post... by one of the most respected/well-known members of the community...
i was worried about the direction of stack overflow before. now i'm REALLY worried.
It is just a floating head ...
but yeah the million dollar question is will Shog bend over and accept his defeat by looking at the vote counts. Or will he just shrug his head and say its just grumpy meta at it again.
maybe
if reprex was brilliant
12:41
lol
The idea behind it is not bad. Just the way it is presented. [example] would have been better
hello
What should I talk about?
@mohammad This room is for support and discussion about reviewing and coordination of site-wide cleanup efforts. Read our FAQ at socvr.org.
3
12:43
Thank you
Bring on the memes.
@Lino +1 for Jeremy
I should probably just post that as an answer to the meta post.
Yeah you should
@Lino there will be some folks here to upvote that; ROs will pin that, GO FOR IT! :P
12:53
So I also wonder if this whole thing is really the work of Shog, or that it it this new lady that came from google and thought it would be nice to have a fancy new word as her legacy?
@treyBake Good points - especially wrt Coldplay
and yet "people" liked the Beatles and Dark Side of The Moon. It's confusing.
@StephenKennedy how weird, I'm listening to that album right now. Tis a good album, but not a good Pink Floyd album. Nothing compares to Wish You Were Here.. or Piper.. or Animals..
or Meddle
so many great albums
13:08
I've been enjoying Live at Pompei and Atom Heart Mother (just the suite) recently
@StephenKennedy Atom Heart Mother Suite is a very nice song, I don't even care that it's 24 minutes long
I hate the album though, as a whole, for me, it just sucked
13:30
Question, what does @SmokeDetector f do?
@Lino False positive - tells Smoke Detector that there's nothing wrong with the post it reported
@MichaelDodd oh ok thank you, are there any other arguments? Is there a FAQ for this?
f = false, k = true (ok), n = Not An Answer, v = vandalism
@Lino You need to be verified by the Charcoal team in order to use it. There's more information at charcoal-se.org
2
Basically it's a bot that brings spammy or abusive posts to our attention
@MichaelDodd I understand, I knew what the bot does, but I didn't know if I can interact with it (and how).
13:49
@MichaelDodd @Lino and the SOCVR RO team, to feed back from this room
4
(short circuit would be to ask us; at least that's what I did. I asked Rene and he took care of it for me. Nice flower.)
Zoe
Zoe
(How can you tell if he's a nice flower, if he's blurry?)
@MichaelDodd If you want to save some typing, you can always use !!/info
!!/info
@Machavity I'm SmokeDetector a bot that detects spam and offensive posts on the network and posts alerts to chat. A command list is available here.
2
!!/blame
@Adriaan It's Luuklag's fault.
13:55
:(
!!/tea
@Lino brews a cup of green tea for @Lino
@Zoe Didn't you see my message about how I get invited to all the best parties now I'm an RO?! With all this partying everything is blurry, except Rene who is now pin sharp.
8
Zoe
Zoe
:D
14:15
@StephenKennedy last party at @rene's I had so much whisky I could barely see straight at the end of the night
@Zoe you have GitHub rights at Charcoal?
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy What type?
@Adriaan Is this a true story? (am aware you guys have met, or think I am)
Zoe
Zoe
No?
@Zoe Yes, @StephenKennedy meant the Other Awesome People team on GitHub link
14:19
Yes?
Zoe
Zoe
Status-no-repro
I see a l-... oh
I see
It's limited to users in the organization
@Zoe I thought you are one. Nm.
@Zoe I think you mean "status-no-reprex"...
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy I know. The point is I can see the link because I'm in the organization, but you can't probably because you aren't.
It's a poorly chosen link, and not a dead one
Zoe
Zoe
14:21
@TylerH I say we repress reprex right back where it came from
@StephenKennedy I'll leave the flower to confirm that, or a certain lover of large passenger sailing vessels ;)
@Zoe Would you believe there's at least one SOCVR regular who is so privileged in Charcoal they can see secret links, yet they're not privileged in this room?!
Of course you can't, because that would be stoopid :P
Zoe
Zoe
oh shush xd
I'll dig up a better link and see if I can make a PR or @mention someone
@Zoe don't repre(x)ss poor reprex
When I read the post it took me a while to understand they weren't talking about regex (>.<')
Zoe
Zoe
14:23
Repress reprex with regex.
"reprex".replace("pr", "g")
Zoe
Zoe
sudo "reprex".replace(".*", "MCVE");
Zoe
Zoe
xD
@StephenKennedy you're logged into GH, right?
14:27
@Zoe Yes. Have you made me an admin? How kind!
Zoe
Zoe
I haven't.
Can you open the link in a different container/incognito?
Are you getting a login screen?
Zoe
Zoe
yeah, then I'm probably right.
Zoe
Zoe
I can't find the source, or a decent replacement. I'll @ someone
14:29
Thanks
sudo pkill reprex
So many people want to repress reprex
@StephenKennedy not necessarily repress, killing might also get it done ^^
I don't want to start a (very) big discussion, but I actually don't hate reprex ._.
Zoe
Zoe
14:33
@StephenKennedy Undo pinged.
Soon we'll have peasants yelling "Help! Help! I'm being reprexed!"
12
you sir get a star for that
Zoe
Zoe
yeah, and gathering in large lynch mobs with their rexforks and torxes.
I feed @Machavity a line and he gets stars. I'm used to it by now :D
have another star
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy You've gotta be careful when setting up jokes :P
14:36
@Lino I also don't hate it, but I find it to be change for changes sake. IMHO it doesn't add anything
Even Shog9 has his own pokes at it
Avoid sun exposure while using Reprex™ — Shog9 ♦ 13 hours ago
...side effects may include....
increased unfriendliness
@StephenKennedy You're British. I would have expected you to get that one yourself :P
sudden close votes.
@Nkosi Who asked you?! oh I'm sorry, I took Reprex this morning
14:39
If you have a reprex lasting more than ___ consult a site mod
Like PHP, friends don't let friends use Reprex
and my personal favorite...
Zoe
Zoe
I'd rather use PHP than ever call it reprex aside in meta discussions.
This is your post on Reprex,.....Any questions?
In classic Bush style "Read my lips, No New Reprex"
lol
Reprex can help you with that unwelcome, blurry feeling
@Machavity by causing it?
Don't hate it either (ambivalent/indifferent), but upvoted Machavity's "plain English" suggestion
@Machavity I'm also a peasant so yeah I should have got there first
Zoe
Zoe
14:44
@HermanTheGermanHesse yes, by further confusing non-English users.
@StephenKennedy with 7k you have no right to call yourself peasant, in this room that title pretty much only applies to me.
You may call me your peasantness from now on ^^
@HermanTheGermanHesse I wasn't referring to rep but thanks anyway :) As for you, you've only been a member for... oh, over 3 years :P
cries in n00b
@Machavity I was reading that as ... Hans Passant yelling ...
14:57
@StephenKennedy Not all whiskey he brought with him went back home. Let's say it was processed
3
And that was after we tasted the beer I had on offer
Zoe
Zoe
@VadimKotov How did that get an upvote? xd
16:02
@StephenKennedy Then it should be locked for historical significance
@VFDan It can be closed, just that it's too old to request closure in this room. Did you flag it for closure?
16:17
Once again, SOCVR is way ahead of the competition
3
SOBotics says that's fighting talk
@StephenKennedy finally a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary.
16:32
@double-beep What's wrong with the dupe?
Zoe
Zoe
@StephenKennedy This is why insisted on a wall...
@JohnDvorak this covers that IMO and contains enough info to why the dupe is kinda poor. (OP has admitted that, also)
@Machavity that pin is misleading. It's already done and if they wanted to know what we thought they'd have asked beforehand.
the question consensus is something more than clear
and I believe they should respect that
Why should they?
They never asked.
17:02
folks, I've been pondering how system could better teach new CV reviewers about productivity benefits of filtering, and I thought, what if there was an option to use some "filter of the day" automatically picked by a system? This option would be on by default, in order to make life easier for inexperienced reviewers. What do you think? Maybe something like this was already discussed?
@AndrasDeak well, I think it is a joke. Both the pin and the post. You decide if it is a bad one.
@gnat Hmm, would be a bit like our now gone weekly close vote events: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/251956/578411
We cut down on those events because ... people didn't like the pings in their inbox and chatrooms. And Closey died. Something like that
@rene well sort of, except that filter would work for all reviewers (except for those who picked to turn it off or use their own filter)
More like "suggested filter based on your tag activity"
17:09
and there would be no pings
would your filter only include a type or also a tag?
It wouldn't mean much I'm afraid but it doesn't hurt to have a meta discussion on it
@JohnDvorak I've been thinking about having such filter tag-based too but decided that for a start it would be better to try something simpler and experiment with more sophisticated variations later if it turns out that idea generally works
@gnat this is the query I used back then: data.stackexchange.com/stackoverflow/query/236526/… to select a tag for an event. The added tagnames show tags we processed in one or more events.
If we're daydreaming about things that the company will never implement I wish we'd have a filter on number of close votes. That would make me start reviewing again...
@rene I would prefer to start with simplest possible approach, meaning only type. And even for type I would probably abstain of more complicated ones like duplicates and maybe even off-topic. Just something to make it easy and... "enjoyable" for new reviewers
17:15
@AndrasDeak I believe we have a userscript that adds that for you
Show the vote count yes; but showing me only posts with 4 close votes in the CVQ?
^^^ I am kinda desperately trying to figure how we could soften that terrible drop-off shown after 50 reviews. Anything to keep people reviewing
Is there a badge for 50? Or only for more?
@gnat ... allow them to?
@AndrasDeak no, review badges are awarded at 1, 250 and 1000 tasks. My guess 50 is for the folks who attempt to get to silver badge but drop off after finding that CV review is way too cumbersome for them
17:20
I see. At least it doesn't correlate with review quality then.
@JohnDvorak what do you mean? anyone with 3K+ rep is allowed to review
but only so many reviews per day
Ah, I wouldn't think that's due to the daily limit
if anything, this would just convince Shog that 50 is a natural limit to human capacity ;)
They just try it once, get told to stop, and never resume
@AndrasDeak we tested that already... :)
17:25
I'd be surprised if that was typical
> I would say 60 reviews seems to be really approaching reviewer fatigue. You probably can stretch it a little bit more by "amplifying" current CV prioritisation heuristic (which works already well btw), but only a little bit
I remember...I even started reviewing again during that test :P
as for me it was surprising to find out that 40 reviews a day is a reasonable limit. Prior to testing I thought if I do this in 3-5 minutes with ease, it won't be difficult to do more in yet another 5 minutes but turned out I was wrong about that
17:39
Hai, I don’t have enough rep to roll this one back: stackoverflow.com/questions/56104372
@grooveplex you don't
@grooveplex I've rolled it back
Thanks
@NathanOliver You have enough rep for that?
@grooveplex please raise a mod-flag; let's not continue rollback wars. It has already be done once.
17:41
@StephenKennedy Yeah, by about a factor of 50
adjusts glasses oh, 100K
:)
The curse of overflowing the 5 digit limit :)
poor you :(
@double-beep It's OK when the other party is clearly vandalising - and I think the mods get an autoflag after X rollbacks anyway
@StephenKennedy reference?
@double-beep I read on meta that it isn’t the best course of action.
That’s how I understood it, anyway.
17:45
It's a burden but I manage ;) That said, I was informed swag distobution is being changed so I'll have to wait until they figure that out, plus an extra 6 to 8 weeks before I get my 100K swag :( That means I'll be waiting 6to8weeks^6to8weeks
@JohnDvorak My assistant will help you with that... oh I see they already did :)
@StephenKennedy make sure you don't wear Cody Gray's glasses. I wore them once and saw @rene's profile image blurry :(
@grooveplex a moderator has mentioned that the autoflags that are raised by Community about rollback wars are awful
(@Zoe has added that to her notepad)
Well, not to worry. All I'm saying is give peace a chance don't be afraid to rollback vandalism.
@StephenKennedy Yes, I flagged for closure as off topic
ideas about this? Is it on-topic?
@double-beep It's 5 years old
@TylerH it has recent activity
@TylerH so?
I didn't submit a cv-pls
just asked
nvm, thought you were replying to Machiavity
@double-beep that is an idea
18:55
@double-beep sure, but if we respond and say yes it's off-topic, then what do you expect will happen in this room?
I don't really mind; I will cast my cv and it will be reviewed anyway
@TylerH absolutely nothing of worry?
Why are you asking about a 5 year old question? This is far from the first time you've asked about the topicality of an old question
@TylerH to consider a drive-by vote without a request?
@double-beep Exactly... so why ask here if you're already going to vote and send it to the CV queue? Posting questions here has the express effect (and usually intent) of getting us to look at questions to close them (if appropriate)
Doing so in the form of "Do you think this question is on-topic" instead of a cv-pls looks a lot like intentional skirting of the rules to get the same effect
this isn't my intent, though, honestly
Sure, which is why I haven't outright accused you of circumventing the rules :-)
At any rate, if you're wondering about the topicality of a question for a burnination candidate, you should ask about it in Trogdor or the burn-specific room, not here in SOCVR
@TylerH why?
To be fair, Trogdor or burn room are just as likely to send him here
18:59
@JohnDvorak because of all the things I just said above
@TylerH then you should drop your request
what request?
to not ask here about topicality
That suggestion doesn't make sense
feel free to schedule a meeting topic if you still feel strongly about the issue
19:01
It's within the purview of my role as Room Owner to make sure users aren't circumventing existing rules, intentionally or otherwise. If you think something a RO has asked not to happen should be allowed, you should post a meeting topic, instead.
Is there a way to abuse the ability to ask about the topicality of old questions?
If not, then why do you worry?
That some people will waste a closevote on a question that doesn't matter?
@Machavity thoughts on the question raised above?
(or any other RO)
@JohnDvorak Sure, see, again, the concerns I raised earlier
@JohnDvorak Our general consensus is that as long as there's no deliberate attempts to circumvent the rules, it's fine. That seems to be the case here
2
19:17
@double-beep we do give some leeway with questions related to burninations due to how closely this room is tied to Trogdor; in the future if you have an inquiry about such a question (e.g. something raised from Trogdor or a burn-specific room), please indicate that in your question, if possible. That will put at ease any concerns about rule circumvention :-)
To be clear, I don't think double-beep broke any rules with one request. We just don't want a string of them, and Tyler was concerned that a pattern might be forming (which is also a valid concern)
19:49
@TylerH gotcha
20:07
@gnat and it was a resounding success... and yet the test was ended and... nothing ever changed :-(
also, where'd you get those numbers? unless they're not from the cv queue?
\o night
20:44
0
Q: There are too many [programming-languages]

JL2210 Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? Is it unambiguous? No. If the question is about a specific programming language, then the specific programming language tag can be added. Otherwise, it's too broad to be useful. Is the concept described even on-topic for ...

21:10
@Machavity oh well that might actually be the first argument against reprex that hits home :P
21:43
@TylerH I got these numbers from Shog: meta.stackoverflow.com/a/252600/839601
 
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