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02:00 - 20:0020:00 - 00:00

20:06
Cody is snipping all NAA as usual.. nothing to flag so probably bedtime cya
20:27
@Machavity I disagree - that's spam.
20:40
It appears to be relevant to the question that was asked, and it has the required disclosure of affiliation. I wouldn't call it spam, @EJoshuaS.
It's pure self-promotion, though.
Um, yeah. So is every answer I post. It's promoting myself and my genius programming ability.
As I said, the issues are, (A) is it relevant (i.e., not unsolicited), and (B) does it disclose affiliation? It seems to check those two boxes.
It's not a good answer by any stretch, but I wouldn't call it spam.
The reason I'm arguing this is, imagine that I was the author of a relevant library that did solve your problem. Could I not ever post that as an answer? That seems like a policy that is shooting ourselves in the foot.
Tiw
Tiw
@CodyGray Thanks for the ban. My minor ocd often push me checking it again and again, it's great to have several days holiday :)
@Tiw What ban?
Tiw
Tiw
review ban, 3 hours ago I think
20:53
Was that me? Why assume that was me?
Because it's always me? :-)
Tiw
Tiw
Dunno. But it's you deleted that post, so I guess it's you.
This one. I upvoted the comment, didn't raise flag. Anyway, it's great to have several days' ban :-)
Thanks whomever banned me.
Shouldn't it say on /review which one you should take a look at? Or is that the post you linked to?
Tiw
Tiw
Yep. That's the one.
And you reviewed looks ok?
Tiw
Tiw
When I saw the message There are no review queues available to you, somehow felt relieved.
It's an edge case, but I admit I didn't review properly.
So it's a good ban, no pun intended :)
21:01
Oh
Yeah, that was another Cody special on reviewers who failed to flag as NAA
@Tiw hmm, yeah. Upvoting the comment is maybe not the most clear this no good answer I guess
Tiw
Tiw
Come back in 5 days to continue reviewing. However I'm curious about this duration. Why it's not 2^n?
I'm trying to stamp that out one ban at a time.
Don't assume other people have done the reviewing you are being asked to do.
@Tiw Because I typed "5" into the textbox. :-)
with cat on keyboard it could have been 579
I don't have a cat
Tiw
Tiw
21:03
:D
You have a keyboard?
With Fetty Wap, it could have been 679
Tiw
Tiw
Thanks anyway :)
I do indeed. Touch screens are the devil.
Tiw
Tiw
Why? I like touch screen. However I'm using a type cover now.
21:06
For so many reasons... The biggest one is, there's no tactile feedback, so it massively slows me down. I can normally type 160 WPM. With a touch screen, I become a normal human. Also, I have a work laptop now with a touch screen, and I am constantly trying to wipe dust from it and wreaking havoc.
yes, that
If there was a hardware switch or something to turn on the touch screen, that might be useful.
But I'm not even convinced of that. The notebook is one of those 2-in-1s, and I just don't see the point. I've never used the 1. Always the 2.
Tiw
Tiw
Yeah, agree.
when wiping the dusts, but don't want to close it.
Don't touch the screen, it is a touchscreen is just weird.
the only use I've found for a touch screen on a laptop is to be able to say to ppl "hey look, I've got a touchscreen!"
PITA otherwise because of the aforementioned dust and dirt problem
21:09
I bought a laptop with a touchscreen once....
@StephenKennedy Has that feature ever been useful to you?
Tiw
Tiw
Well, I use it combine with type cover. When surfing on some long pages, or do some simple clicking, it's conveninent.
A "type cover" is another name for "keyboard"?
Tiw
Tiw
Yep
@CodyGray Maybe once when touchscreens were still a novelty
21:10
Besides the wipe dust issue you also have the "oh, look at all these smudges and fingerprints all over my screen while I'm trying to watch a dark scene in a video" moments
I just don't see how tablets make any sense. It's next to impossible to hold them without also touching the screen and making bad stuff happen.
Tiw
Tiw
The kind of keyboard can also works as a cover for the laptop, when closed.
Not to mention, my fingers are the worst input device ever created.
Tiw
Tiw
Yeah, that true. I dreamed about the day when I can just use my eyeball to input.
@CodyGray I thought Surface Pros and some others at least detect when you have a keyboard attached and can disable touchscreen input when that's the case
21:12
I wouldn't know. I spent all my money on a MacBook like 6 years ago.
Tiw
Tiw
@TylerH Surface can't, or maybe it's me not found the way yet.
MacBook Pro, actually. So there's that.
I think Windows 10 will automatically disable the touch screen when you're in "laptop" mode, and enable it in "tablet" mode. But I don't know if that works well. I do know that my 2-in-1 is constantly asking me if I want to switch to "featureless" (err, I mean, "tablet" mode) when I wake it up from sleep.
I tried it once when watching a movie, but it was just pointless. The laptop form factor actually holds the screen up at a better angle for viewing, even when you're not using the keyboard.
Tiw
Tiw
I am always on "laptop" mode recently.
Disabled automatic switch.
21:35
\o
22:15
This dupe was a mistake in the reverse direction. What I meant was dupe Python: How to define string indices as variables is the duplicate of Understanding slice notation
@karel You can ask a roomowner to remove incorrect requests.
I asked the roomowner to delete it, but my delete request was declined.
Rob
Rob
Nope.. you raised a moderator flag
@karel Are you no longer wanting this request to be active?
I want the first comment to be deleted by a roomowner.
22:21
Yeah, that's not what flags for moderator attention do...
No harm done, but now you know for the next time. :)
@karel Which comment? where? Please link to it. Alternately, is the message I replied to the one you want removed? You can hover your mouse over my comment to see what I replied to colored grey. Alternately, click the left-arrow at the start of my earlier message to be taken to the comment I'm replying to and have it highlighted in yellow (or just highlighted in yellow, if there are not enough messages to allow it to move to the top of the screen).
@karel Based on you later messages, I'm going to assume that this message is the one you want removed. If it's not, then I'll move it back to the room when you tell me.
@Makyen That's the incorrect comment that I wanted to delete. Thanks for deleting it.
@karel incorrect or correct?
@Makyen Correct
OK. Thanks.
@karel Another time, if you no longer want a request to be acted upon, please ping an active RO with a link to the request you want removed. Including a link is so we can easily and immediately identify which request you are asking about. You can see a list of the ROs on the left of the room information page, which is linked as "info" just below the tags for the room in the right-sidebar, or the "info" link in the hamburger menu on mobile.
That list is most recently active RO on the top. Pinging the most recently active, or two, ROs is usually best. Pinging is so your request doesn't get lost in the transcript. Given that it's something an RO can do for you, asking for it to be moved is not something you should flag for moderator attention (as has already been mentioned). Note that ROs can't actually delete, so we move such messages to our SOCVR /dev/null room.
22:44
@Vega both answers there look potentially spammy - the first one links to a gambling site
ty whoever dealt with that
@StephenKennedy Ah, I didn't have the "courage" to click on the links. Thank you!
@Vega Don't worry, I'm here if you need anything stupid courageous done
Waffles.
@BaummitAugen Ah thanks mate, so close but so far :)
@StephenKennedy Hahaha, thank you again :)
22:52
I don't really moderate chat, so can someone give me a quick summary of why moderator flags are a bad way to get things deleted?
If I'd have seen a flag like that, I would have been tempted to delete as requested... What would that break?
probably best for @makyen to answer that, although I can have a stab at it if nobody else does
Is it just one of those "we don't want to bother moderators with that" kind of objections?
pretty much
Because I think that's kinda silly.
but there may be transcript considerations too, hence my pinging the boss :)
22:55
If there's a feature of the site that you want to use, but you do not have the privileges to use it, then a moderator flag is a reasonable (nay, the only) way for you to request that such action be taken. In this case, the feature is "delete this message".
If the desire is to actually delete, then yes, that needs a moderator. Given that what's usually desired is for a request to no longer be active, then all that is needed is for it to no longer be in this room. Thus, ROs can take care of it and just move it to /dev/null, which is for that purpose. It also allows anyone to reconstruct what happened in the room, which provides more transparency to Meta, if anyone is interested.
So, it provides both of the benefits which have already been identified: not use moderator time for something that can be accomplished by users, and maintain transparency for Meta.
If it's truly something that needs to be no longer visible, as the personal attacks in some SD reports were, then there is a moderator-restricted room to which we can move such. However, that is a very rare occurrence.
The only thing there that I really find persuasive is "It also allows anyone to reconstruct what happened in the room, which provides more transparency to Meta, if anyone is interested."
Otherwise, it's just an argument for why it can be done by either moderators or ROs.
Given how well organized this room is, I'm quite happy with leaving the handling of requests to the ROs.
They certainly know their rules better than I do.
Sure, and when a RO is around, that's great. I'm not saying they shouldn't be able to do things.
I guess my question is, what happens when a RO isn't around, but a moderator is.
@CodyGray I agree it can be done by moderators. However, the general policy on SO, as far as I know, it that we're really not supposed to be flagging for moderator attention for things that can be handled by users. This is a bit of a grey area, as the user flagging can't actually handle it themselves and does need assistance from someone.
Our policy is intended to not impact moderators for what is actually a relatively common request in how things are handled in the room. In addition, some moderators have requested that they not be flagged for such things, so we recommend against doing so.
23:05
And I'm sure the answer everyone is dying to give is, "Chat moderation is broken; nothing new under the sun". And...I accept that.
Moderators are, of course, welcome to handle the issue, if they desire. However, we generally prefer not to impose upon them for things that can be otherwise handled, and which are not time-sensitive. I also hesitate to suggest to users that they flag when a common response from moderators is to decline the flag. If moderators, as a group, want to mark such flags as helpful, and act upon them, then I have no problem with moderators doing so.
@CodyGray We've had a mod 'complain' about such a flag here before, whereas on the other extreme Bhargav has talked about becoming an RO...
the latter would work well for any mod who actually intends to spend time hanging round here and being involved, as pinging a mod to perform an RO action would be a bit of a grey area atm (is that right @makyen?)
@StephenKennedy I'd expect the rate of flag-declines for be fairly high for flagging for a moderator to perform something an RO commonly does. As to pinging them for something like that, yes, it would be a bit of a grey area and would depend on what's going on. The point of the no-mod-ping rule is that we don't want moderators inundated by more requests to moderate just by the fact that they are here in the room, as that tends to be an overall negative experience.
@Makyen Thanks for confirming
23:23
Hmm. Another one of those, "the moderators are not bots who present a consistent interpretation of the rules" problems.
I, too, would prefer not to be pinged here about moderation issues, but that's because a flag is a better all-around choice. It allows anyone to handle it.
Yes indeed. As you probably know, SOBotics has several ROs who are also mods; and whilst it's fine to ping them about room issues, pinging about flaggable issues isn't allowed there either.
I didn't really know that. Or, I didn't really think about it.
Yes, a lack of consistent interpretation of the rules is a considerable portion of the issue. For things that need to be handled by moderators in general, flags are much better than pinging a specific moderator.
I've never really understood the importance of a distinction between ROs and mods.
Or, in other words, I see mods as owners of all chat rooms on the network.
While I agree with the interpretation that moderators are owners of all chat rooms, it's also desirable to not burden moderators with tasks that can be performed by others. At the current time, moderators don't have a huge flag queue to wade through. Thus, they have more time to spend on other things, which is great. However, it's commonly been the case in the past that available moderator time was significantly below the existing demands.
That made such time something that really shouldn't be consumed for requests that can be handled by others.
23:36
@CodyGray Bhargav would be a good person to talk to about that, as it was only very recently that he expressed an interest in becoming an RO here (and is one of the ROs of SOBotics). I take from that the implication that he sees a distinction. I wouldn't like to comment as I'm neither RO nor mod and agree that in terms of authority, absolutely, if your name is in blue you're in charge :)
Yes, I do recall Flag Overflow.
It's been positively bizarre coming back to the flag queue being frequently empty.
I...don't know what to do with myself, so I end up lost in places like this one. :-)
hehe... it's good to have you here
We like seeing you here. That moderators have time to do other things is a really good thing for the site.
Or a sign that you guys aren't flagging enough.
I've got more helpful flags than rep, although tbf that's not hard at my rep level :)
...and I remember a time when custom flags could take weeks to clear, so today's situation is way better afaic
23:45
Not flagging enough is the other side of the issue. I'm sure that even with the cleanup that's been done in the last year with "The Welcoming", there are plenty of things which we could find to flag in older questions/answers/comments. However, that's such a large pile of dusty bits :-) that most people really haven't wanted to wade into it.
@Makyen If Zoe were online I imagine you'd be invited to hold her beer right now :)
:-)
Hold her beer?
And...if you want to see your declined flags number go up, just to balance the numbers out, definitely go find a bunch of old comments and flag as "not welcoming".
@CodyGray "Hold my beer" when said in response to some unpleasant or challenging task means something like "I'll take care of that and it won't take me long"
(I'm not mocking btw; quite the opposite)
Though in the original meme, the guy saying that is about to mess up badly, due to beer induced over-confidence.
23:50
Oh, as in, she'd be willing to dive into that dusty pile of bits.
Eh...I'm not sure that's all that helpful.
I have very mixed feelings about raising NAA/VLQ flags on very old posts.
@CodyGray If it needed to be done and would help the site, yes
Well, sure, we all would.
That's why we're here. Here not just as "this room", but here as in "on Stack Overflow".
@BaummitAugen Lol, I'd overlooked that. It's kinda like when a young guy in a fast car says "watch this!" :)
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