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Uh, when did I request something here ... I got an invite too oO
Ah, sd reply.
01:18
@BhargavRao Yeah, unfortunately, the system issues an "invite" when a message written by the user is moved. For normal users who can't talk in the Graveyard room, that invite only happens once, even if additional messages are subsequently moved. For ROs, that invite happens every time a message of theirs is moved if the RO doesn't have the destination room open. Hmm... it might be only once until you enter the room. I haven't tested that. For moderators, I assume it would be similar to ROs.
Other than not move messages, there's nothing we know of that will prevent the system from sending the invites.
01:30
Hmm, I wonder if I'll not get an invite if I ignore the invitation.
@BhargavRao That was what I was just thinking. Do you want to test it?
If so, I can move a test message of yours.
01:59
@BhargavRao I just leave 'em. It blocks new ones
@Makyen I wanted to ... but looks like Mach has already tried it, so we good
:-)
 
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2 hours later…
06:06
Morning all \o
Morgen
 
3 hours later…
09:40
Guys
What to do if a user with low rep answered a question 3x because the OP is +1 all answers? xD
if same answer mod-flag, if different answers you can just vote by yourself.
Okay thanks ^^
if the question is bad, cv it and we can delete it all later :)
@IslamElshobokshy I found your case4, since a continue of answer, you can edit it in to one, then flag leave a comment under and flag NAA or custom mod flag the answer that are not relevant anymore.
yeah okay I'll do that ^^
thanks!
Yeah OP is making a major mess :D
@IslamElshobokshy the more I look at it, the more it seems like he is copying stuff from other answers... seems like a custom mod flag is what it needs.
09:54
I already flagged it and said he's posting multiple answers, feel free to flag it and say he's copying stuff from other answers :P
lets see first what mods do...
 
1 hour later…
11:09
Morning o/
\o
11:57
\o
12:31
Hey guys, do you think this is a LOA?
@iBug Yes IMO
I'm going to flag for mod attention to convert to comment - hope it's a good flag.
How kind of you :P, I went straight to NAA
@HovercraftFullOfEels you're welcome :)
( example of unexpected response from API)
14:16
@treyBake: whoa. Small text please
sorry xD will edit
cannae edit it?
@treyBake ask a RO for moving both messages.
> Cannae (now Canne della Battaglia) is an ancient village of the Apulia region of south east Italy. It is a frazione (civil parish) of the comune (municipality) of Barletta, a former bishopric and presently a Latin Catholic titular see.
cannae
Scottish in origin, means cannot.
I cannae believe it mate! ;)
@JohnDvorak: isn't that where Hannibal did famous pincer move on the Romans, annihilating their army?
14:18
erm how does one do that officially? @double-beep
Yup, it's that one
What's with the oneboxes today.
@treyBake just ping @Machavity who is here to move it.
14:19
@double-beep ty :)
@Machavity please remove my big-box link, hit enter to early ^^ :)
thank you ^.^
@Machavity and the other one since it is a without a link.
14:35
@treyBake General computing?
@gparyani yee sorry xD
14:52
123123
can An RO remove this? OP added the code from links
cc @NathanOliver ^
@NathanOliver how about this? It is invalid; added onebox by wrong and moved.
 
1 hour later…
17:17
Morning all /o
Wow! Mod-flag handled in 45 secs.
which is why
The average flag handling time in the past few weeks ... is less than 30mins
2
And somedays it is less than 1 minute
And we're speaking of around 30~40 thousand flags ...
Brad Larson mentioned somewhere that all mod-flags are flagged within 3 hours. He is probably outdated.
18:43
Nah, I think Brad Larson stays up with the times ;)
That Brad quote is from a few years back ...
Brad's one of the mods who's always upto date :)
Unless I missed one, all of your non-close-vote flags (those that are reviewed by moderators) cast within the last week were handled within three hours. Brad Larson Dec 8 '18. Cast within 3 hours?
He's saying that all of there flags were handled in at least 3 hours after being cast.
@NathanOliver And the average is 30 mins? It seems strange to me.
Why is that strange?
18:48
@BhargavRao And here I thought that it was some new SO initiative. "Your flag will be dealt with in 30 mins or it's free"
Someone would expect at least 1-2 hours, don't you agree?
There are 3 flags ... one handled within 10sec, one within 20 sec, and one within 55minutes ...
the average is still less than 30 mins. ;p
@double-beep Comment flags get handled really fast, that is going to keep the average low
NAAs, VLQs, as well ...
@Machavity Pretty sure there's a "your money back guarantee" already.
18:52
@BhargavRao those have a minimum wait though before you see them don't they?
If the queue is empty, then they don't.
"First eat your meals, and then grab the dessert from your sister's plate"
4
@double-beep Depends a lot on the time of year
19:04
@BhargavRao Hope you don't mind my minor edit to your timestamp in your meta answer. It just seemed a little odd/non-standard to me
Hah, I don't mind people editing my posts ...
Their efforts, and I get to keep the benefits wink wink
@BhargavRao PS, found another answer that is an exact dupe of one from months earlier... stackoverflow.com/a/31264477/2756409
Flag em. But link to the other answer in the flag text.
Gotcha
... also yay, done with mod stuff for the day. I can focus on real life.
19:10
\o/
like unicorns and ice cream?
\o\
nah, ponies and ice cream
unicorns on SO and unicorns in real life will make it boring.
@AdrianHHH SSIS is definitely not "general computing"
that ^ and it is on-topic. Writing SSIS packages is a programming task and SSIS is the tool you use for doing that programming. Nothing general computing about it
A lot of people don't realize that questions about programming tools are on-topic.
Hover and Sotirios are in sync today :)
Can we vote twice?
Tempted to send cv-pls for that question
20:18
@BhargavRao I remember you saying that ponies were soooo 2000. Changing your mind now?
Ponies are so 2014 actually
But real life lags behind
yes that's the year you said, sorry.
hehe, np..
My memory ain't that great ... I end up blaming Chrome for most of the time
20:33
@rene In this case do you want to bin the req?
Let's not bin requests without the requester replying back to explain their stance
rene ain't a dictator
Well no, but he is a RO... ROs can and do bin bad requests. In the case of a request that is clearly 'bad' in the sense of applying a reason that is wrong, I think it's fair for a RO to bin it as all ROs can un-bin one, too, if need be.
Especially if mulltiple people agree that it is bad (further combating the 'dictator' notion)
The danger of leaving it is that users (especially those using user scripts) might go through the transcript looking for unfilled requests and might take the requestor at their word for the accuracy of a request (I know, users should only vote where they can reasonably determine for themselves the request is appropriate, but that doesn't always happen) and mob-close (as we are a mob) an on-topic question.
I agree that multiple people mentioning about it would certainly make it fair to bin a request, however, waiting till the person replies back is probably a better idea.
Also it's been 2 hours and the requestor has not responded... how long is a reasonable time to wait? As long as some people wait before casting CVs on a question for OP to respond/edit their Q? :-P (AKA sometimes 5 seconds... sometimes a day)
20:41
The mob-close is a good thing actually ... we'll know who all do that, and can ask them not to do so. ;)
For reference, the requestor was online for an hour after my comment saying it was not General Computing and didn't respond during that time
@BhargavRao Eh, I prefer not to let bad stuff happen before we do anything about it... not a fan of ex post facto enforcement
We can reopen it..
@PetterFriberg We should rather just not close it
I am not sure of this particular case, but was mentioning in general.. Also don't check that online time, that's somewhat misleading...
And it's as simple as binning the request...
20:44
@TylerH true, I wasn't serious there.
@BhargavRao True, OP could have signed off and then back on again an hour later, but still, they've been "on" since I pinged them about it and haven't said anything
@TylerH people vote as they wish.. I'm on the fence it feels that any request is valid even if wrong.
@PetterFriberg that seems illogical
@TylerH not to me, since it's not clear who decide that it's valid
20:47
Perhaps the binning stuff can be a room meeting topic this time..
People should not robo review, if that is a problem, that should be addressed, not what I, you an Rene consider on-topic
"If multiple people mention that a requested post is not to be closed/deleted, should it be binned?"
@PetterFriberg the community determines what is valid on a grand scale; we cannot possibly hope to have an exhaustive list of what topics are valid as SO is too big
@BhargavRao That's a poor phrasing of it, IMO. I would rather address Petter's concern first, which is 'what counts as a valid request'
@TylerH so any request is valid.. let the community determine?
@PetterFriberg I mean Meta/the community at large
20:49
Yeah, Petter also has brought up a good point.
The site writ large has determined that questions about tools commonly used by programmers are on-topic
SSIS is also inarguably a tool used by programmers, not a 'general use' program
@TylerH Well I'm part of that :)
Where would you draw the line on allowing people to make cv-pls requests for on-topic posts using (for lack of a better word) blatantly wrong reasons?
My take on it. [cv-pls] requests as such are valid unless someone is abusing it. An invalid request would probably be something which is not made in good faith (say, I hate Petter and therefore I am cv-ing his questions). The decision to close or not to close a post lies with the users closing it.
If sufficiently people feel that a post should not be closed, then the requester should explain their stance. After a small discussion, that request would be binned, if needed.
your example is user-targetting
20:53
Personally I would not draw a line, I expect users like you to comment back (as you did) and community users (users in chat) to review correctly. If something bad happens according to someone that user can try to fix it (reopen)
@BhargavRao Sure, I'm not accusing anyone (including Adriaan) of abuse by any means. I am simply stating the request is invalid. The cv-pls'd question got a 2nd close vote after both I and a RO countered that the question was not only not 'general computing' but also otherwise on-topic. You might be able to tell if that 2nd cv came from someone here or someone in the review queue, but we can't...
so my concern is that people are seeing the request here but not the followup lines, trusting the requestor's judgment, and voting
That shouldn't really be a reason to trash the request
@BhargavRao I'm kinda late to this party so... was there a req binned that shouldn't have been, or was it merely proposed? Or is this all hypothetical?
It's an undue burden, IMO, to expect us to monitor every question we have a 'wrongful cv-pls' concern about and re-raise it for reopening here, when we can just bin the request because it's using incorrect reasoning
hey the meeting is taking place now
20:55
@Jean-FrançoisFabre no one tell gunr or he might drop by :-)
@TylerH Ah, ok. I thought that's what it was related to but I wasn't sure. He made that initial statement after I ran cleanup so I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something
Aside: I like the SOCVR to be like this, debating issues, rather than a page full of [cv-pls] requests
3
who's the chairperson?
@TylerH yeah, that'd be a real issue, which we should address, if it exists.
@BhargavRao same, it is nice to have conversations/discussions about the process
20:57
Generally speaking, my understanding is we don't bin requests without it being a rule violation or requested by the requester
I'm concerned about the use of the word "invalid request".
The underlying, broad question at hand is 'how wrong does a request have to be to qualify for binning?'
how can you all type so fast?
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I average ~120 - 130 WPM in online tests
(in a meeting you need someone to troll around: that's me)
20:57
@TylerH To be transparent: I am the second close-voter. I voted as lacking a MCVE. The question is a debugging question that contains no code. Thus, there did not appear to be enough information in the question to be able to duplicate the issue. The answer explicitly states that they are just taking a stab in the dark.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre I can't I'm on mobile
@Makyen thanks
I can type python faster than that :)
Consider this scenario:

Question is asked that has an MCVE
Person posts a cv-pls here with the reason "No MCVE"
Multiple people step in and say "that has an MCVE, actually"

Is this an invalid (or problematic or wrong) request? Or is it perfectly fine?
@TylerH: just impressive
20:59
(assuming the cv-pls requestor is not a serial abuser)
The request is fine. The poster was not aware that the provided code was an MCVE.
@BhargavRao So we leave the request and let people potentially vote to close it anyway?
That seems wrong
After a discussion, we either bin the request, or the poster convinces us to VTC.
We clean out this rooms transcript so that only actionable *-pls requests remain... so shouldn't we want to remove this scenaro's cv-pls request?
Similar to NAA and wrong-answer.
21:01
@TylerH probably BR is right as usual this is a room meeting question, personally (not considering abuse) all cv-pls are valid.. Some are just wrong
It is a wrong request. Not an invalid one.
Sure, but let's not get hung up on the semantics; the request is valid in that it is not malformed, not user targeting, etc.
Here I am using invalid and wrong and problematic interchangeably
aka "should not have been posted" (at least not in its current state. Makyen has argued it's lacking an MCVE, which could be a valid close reason)
in the meanwhile, friday night turd questions are accumulating without anyone noticing
"should not have been posted" is on the fence ... more like "should not be acted upon by others"
@BhargavRao So we should go around posting wrong cv-pls requests? I have it from the moderator's mouth :-P
21:03
Too me it feels like you are afraid of robot reviweing... that's your problem
(I know, I'm going to give you gray here...)
@PetterFriberg well, yes
it's a thing, even in this room
Oh, going around posting wrong cv-pls request goes under the "not good faith" rule.
That would make the requests invalid. I agree with that for sure.
come on, contains "pls". You don't have to do it.
It's just that folks here do it much less often and much less egregiously than the typical user.
If someone posts a CV and people dispute it, it should fall to the person who posted it to request a bin. As long as it doesn't violate the rules, and is made in good faith, it should remain. Eventually it does fall out of the list if not acted upon
21:05
@Machavity can you clarify what you mean by 'the list'?
It leaves this room?
or are you referring to a custom list from some user script? (e.g. the URRS or CV Request Generator)
@TylerH yes, after 4 days
@TylerH By list, I mean the open CVs in the room (i.e. the CV search button if you have that userscript)
Also, @tyler, I'm posting as a room regular not a moderator. :-)
The cleanup script eventually bins old requests
@Machavity Thanks; the RO cleanup script, gotcha
21:06
I'm still a SOCVRer ... like I was before a mod.
@Machavity This is exactly what I am also advocating..
@BhargavRao true, but as long as you have blue by your name...
He's not Super Rao, he's Bhargav Kent, a mild-mannered closer of questions
5
I was not aware the RO cleanup script binned requests older than 4 days. That assuages some concern, though I still feel it's the wrong principle to do nothing for a request that is inherently wrong
I think @Machavity perfectly explained my stance on the issue while I was away
@TylerH writes US to make name black in chat :p
21:07
of course I'm only one person
It is not that we're doing nothing, we're putting the onus on the poster.
@BhargavRao that's doing nothing, frankly
The poster has a moral responsibility when they request a cv-pls.
the poster can simply not say anything
Now if you said "the poster has to respond within 24 hours or the request will be binned" then that'd be some teeth to the legislation
If they don't say anything, their request expires in a couple of days, and they will probably earn a bad reputation.
21:09
I don't think people keep track that much
That's unfortunate..
by the time someone has racked up enough 'bad reputation' for us to keep track they're probably well over the line of 'bad faith' or 'abuse'
@TylerH as a formal reply, to confirm I've seen your question and the discussion following it: No, I will not bin the request.
I understand your concern, but I guess I just trust users to be more morally responsible.
And I also don't really foresee this being an issue with any one person in particular; it can happen to anyone. It shouldn't be punitive, but educational
e.g. "hey, that cv-pls reason is inaccurate, the request will be binned and now you know"
21:11
We can probably get to that point sometime, but I don't think we're that bad yet.
@TylerH anyway I like your idea that x number of users can request that a request is binned incorrect request. Sign it for next room meeting
@PetterFriberg I will post it
oh god github has a new front page
it's different and therefore scary
Is it called MSDN?
can go to have food now ... was starving from that time. ;p
No. Order a pizza on-line
21:14
@TylerH We could vote with stars :)
I cook my meals. Wanna have a healthy life style
Also to be transparent: I have, on a very small number of occasions (I'm thinking ~3 total), moved a request out which was factually incorrect. The most recent example is this one, for this reopen-pls request, which had been demonstrated to be factually wrong. In all cases I waited a considerable time to see if removal would be requested by the OP.
Pizza is healthy. Pizza is life
@PetterFriberg Agree with that, it needs to be debated more. A policy would be good. (But I hope we don't go to that... I'd rather have more morally responsible people, than a bunch of users who stick to rules)
@rene lol, no it is at least not as bad as MSDN can be sometimes ("oh, sorry, we have totally deleted this entire documentation website, don't worry we moved everything to docs.microsoft.com where you can find about 30% of the content that used to be here")
@BhargavRao Well yeah, it'd be nice if everyone was so great that we didn't have to have rules for anything, but... this ain't Canada
21:16
(sorry to ruin your debates with a cv request)
Pizza is healthy if you make it yourself ...
Now go eat healthy food!
@TylerH well, I guess that is a win then
bbiab.
One friend of mine is making his own pizzas, and that's true. Less salt, less fat, delicious
21:17
Note: Currently, and for all the time that I'm aware of, the Archiver will move incomplete cv-pls/reopen-pls requests after 3 days, not 4. It will move incomplete del-pls/undel-pls requests after 7 days.
Blame my bad memory, better make then 6 to 8 days
@Makyen Even (slightly) better
review-pls (what once were approve-pls/reject-pls) requests are moved after 2 hours. The Archiver currently has no method of determining that they are complete, so just moves them after that elapsed time.
@rene np. 6–8 :-)
Also, @TylerH, prior to going to the question and evaluating it, I strongly considered explicitly asking @AdrianHHH if it was OK to remove their request. However, after going to the question, my evaluation was that the question was off-topic due to lacking a MCVE. If the original request did not exist, I would have posted a cv-pls request as "no MCVE". In general, we have not removed and reposted cv-pls requests just to change the reason for the request, unless the OP really wants to do so.
Thus, I did not pursue getting input from @AdrianHHH as to the acceptability of removing their request.
Ron
Ron
21:31
o/
\o
Ron
Ron
Long time no see. How is everyone doing?
21:35
@Makyen I was away from the computer. SWMBO had made my evening meal (and it was very nice).
@TylerH and @rene: Re my CV about the SSIS question. I saw a long and rambling question about converting a package. It was not obviously about programming or programming tools. It did not provide any code to examine. The final sentence appears to hold the actual question where it asks "Is it due to any configuration missing on SSIS / SQL level or any other issue?" which appears to be grasping at straws and might suggest a POB close reason.
I notice that the first sentence of its only answer says that without the code they can only make suggestions. It is good question that should be retained? Or, did I just choose the wrong close reason?
@AdrianHHH np. At least most of us are not chained to our keyboards/input devices and forceably required to stare at the screen 24/7. :-)
@Makyen That's fair reasoning
@PetterFriberg @BhargavRao and all - room topic posted github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/room-meeting-topics/issues/…
@AdrianHHH Thanks for responding; in this case it seems the question is close-worthy for lack of an MCVE per Makyen's explanation above (of course OP may always edit their question to include the SSIS package instructions and code to meet the MCVE requirements)
In my recent chat starting "I notice ..." please read the second sentence as "Is it a good question...". Chat will not let me edit it now.
@AdrianHHH SSIS is '"configurable" with a "graphical" IDE. At best you can get screenshots of what the package looks like and screenshots of dialogs. The question isn't great but I don't see a reason to close vote it. It is on topic, not POB or Too broad
What does remain 'incorrect', though, is the reasoning given for the original request (general computing)... the problem (as you just highlighted) with that is chat of course prevents non-mods from editing after a measly 2 minutes...
I think the clear solution for this is for Bhargav to make us all moderators, of course...
21:46
Different people see different close reasons. I am happy learn from you experts.
@rene Is there enough information in the question to duplicate the problem and/or identify an actual cause? I'm not intending to say that it needs actual code, but for answers to be more than SWAGs, there needs to be enough information in the question to be able to verify the problem/solution.
@rene I'm happy to retract my close-vote if there is, but it appeared that even the person answering, who has a gold-tag-badge in , felt that the question was missing information, based on the answer's first sentence/paragraph: "Without seeing the code for both the script task and the stored procedure, it's rather difficult to diagnose specifically what is wrong but I'll take some cracks as it."
@TylerH awesome. I'll look at it once I'm back on laptop.
@Makyen Another case of an 'expert' user answering where perhaps they should have CV'd instead strikes again...
@Makyen I can understand an unclear cv. I wouldn't vote myself.
22:12
@rene OK, thanks. I just didn't want to be close-voting something that was actually clear to someone with more experience in the technologies involved.
22:33
22000+ questions containing "enter image description here"
"A goldmine of crap" sounds like an oxymoron.
^ That appears to be some sort of cut and paste spam
22:51
@Jean-FrançoisFabre eh, that could just mean they don't have image embed privileges (a majority of users on SO don't have them), and also didn't bother to change the description/link text that is auto generated
I would hesitate to blanket label them all as crap
(though I'm also sure that a great many of them are)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre if you order this by relevance its even worse: stackoverflow.com/…
@Vickel FWIW Relevance is the default ordering state for question lists
@TylerH: must have clicked on newest 1st, but thanks for pointing it out
23:20
later all! Probably be back on Monday...
Narrowing that down, we get this
3
@BhargavRao so what to do now? one by one cvp's?
Nah. That'd be breaking atleast 3 rules
ok?
@BhargavRao I'm lost
23:35
"Do nothing" is probably the best answer here.
@Vickel singular nuke. Best way to go.
@Vickel We have some rules to follow. Like not CVing old stuff
@Vickel Breaks no rules so go for it
23:37
Wait, there was a way to close questions using keyboard shortcuts, right?
@BhargavRao rm - f
@BhargavRao Yes. There are probably a few scripts, but there's Close Vote Review Shortcuts in the SOCVR repository. It "adds keyboard shortcuts in the close-vote review-queue and close dialog, so your hands never have to leave the keyboard".
Nopes, without userscripts.
Hmm, yeah. Probably need userscripts

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