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00:00
Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Does it qualify for any sort of flag? (Kinda not sure NAA really fits it)
I VLQ'd it
Do you use VLQ as a catch-all for answers that are worthy of queue deletion (i.e. not worth moderator attention) but don't fit NAA?
@AndrewMyers it is "really bad" and should be deleted -> VLQ.
so....yes
in a lot of ways, VLQ and NAA overlap, but there are a few differences.
But they both send things to the same queue
Of course, I don't go into the LQ queue anymore because sometimes I get confused as to what they want us to do
all the reasons for voting to delete something as VLQ are with NAA reasons
finding image
here we go, +/- the posts around it
00:10
I really wish all the flags and queues were documented with flowcharts and screenshots in the help somewhere
finding that as well
Sam
Sam
With red freehand circles.
Are you looking for the Meta.SE one? That was just questions
ok, I know the flowchart at the top of this post is not the original location, but I can't find that
so you get that version
@AndrewMyers You looking for ^ that one? (nija'd again :-) )
00:15
oh wait, yeah, that's the questions only one
doesn't cover answers
user9107868
00:41
@gunr2171 Why? I mean, I am sorry I forgot to notify the room owner.
01:22
@gunr2171 All this talk of bots had me thinking about something. wasn't there a bot that used to move the close requests to the graveyard, or am I mis-remembering?
Sam
Sam
@Nkosi We had a bot that watched requests that were moved to the graveyard. It didn't move them there though.
oh ok. Do you believe that a bot can do the moving for the ROs. basically automating what you all do manually now?
Sam
Sam
@Nkosi It can definitely be done, it's just a matter of whether the other ROs will accept having a bot with RO permissions.
Which is why we've never had any bots in this room perform any RO actions.
@Sam ok did not realize that. makes sense. was just a thought, but I see the concern.
Sam
Sam
If/when we have a more stable chat API, we may eventually have a bot to automate the repetitive tasks. :)
01:52
@StephenKennedy I think your edit might've attracted some unwanted attention to that question. Somebody just upvoted it.
@MikeM. Which one?
@MikeM. Ah yes :), and sorry I could have seen which post you were replying to because of the small link arrow. Very hard to miss!
I mean very easy to miss :/ Clearly I should go to bed. Gn.
@StephenKennedy I knew what you meant. :-)
@Nkosi A bot, or at least considerable automation, is quite possible. However, IMO there's benefit to having ROs do moving. At least for me, each time I move posts I'll review requests which are being moved due to expiring (at least: yeah I remember looking at that Q). I also look for FireAlarm messages (& SD reports) which have not been handled. For the FireAlarm messages to unclosed questions, if I haven't already, I'll go to the question, evaluate, VtC (or not) & post a cv-pls (or not).
 
2 hours later…
04:26
Does anyone see any redeeming grace in the tag
@TylerH We're in a room right now, aren't we? ;)
@TylerH In all seriousness, though, no, I don't.
I think we should give a special thanks to @Mogsdad for spearheading the cleanup - there are currently 2,153 closed questions in the tag.
5
05:20
hmm 3 more mods stackoverflow.com/election/10 .. is it only about review queues or is anyone stepping down or something?
05:40
@SotiriosDelimanolis I havent used Java for a couple of years.. but can you even name an object same as the class?
or rather a reference
 
2 hours later…
Hi
why this question was closed
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33041733/microservices-vs-monolithic-architecture
@Bugfixer read the very big banner.
It's a plea for an opinion based article listing advantages and disadvantages for a subject, which is very broad, as there are many (dis-)advantages to using that service
@Bugfixer it is overly broad and opinion based, and by today's scope it might be more geared to a Software Engineering topic (whiteboard) then a practical programming problerm. Interesting, yes, on-topic today, no.
@rene - Yeah you are right.
sounds like a new SO election is due on March 11
07:57
^ thats one way of nominating oneself
I wish stuff like this actually costs rep.
There should be a Q ban on meta if you post 10 negative scoring questions in two months...
08:14
@Adriaan downvotes on meta have different semantics, heavily downvoted question doesn't necessarily translate to "user is a kook"
five in a week would be closer to a sensible threshold if you really want to do that
and the general idea of "let's introduce diversity by changing how we recruit" isn't a bad one
Ron
Ron
o/
08:47
@tripleee this particular idea is the worst I've heard all year so far, though
the entire community moderation system functions only on the assumption that our moderators are very capable and trustworthy and have sufficient restraint
Ron
Ron
09:11
A rather interesting question on meta regarding mod election. How do you deal with the clash of practices / generations here on SO?
I guess the numbers will have the last saying.
 
2 hours later…
11:03
@Shadow there was code hidden by the markdown. Is it still no MCVE?
 
2 hours later…
user9107868
12:49
@gunr2171 Tell me one thing that Raphiel did detrimental to this room or a person in this room.
@TheOneWhoMade You engaged in an activity that violated the room policy/rules?
user9107868
No.
@TheOneWhoMade no, the room policy has something against your bot, hence you violated the room policy...
@TheOneWhoMade So, how do you argue your way round 'All bots that post in the room have to be cleared by the Room Owner team. Without their prior approval bots will be kicked as soon as they appear.'?
user9107868
Sorry wrong room now worries
user9107868
13:00
Wait this is the right room.
user9107868
I never ran a bot in this room.
user9107868
But I got a post telling me to never run a bot in this room again.... chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/41500687#41500687
user9107868
intresting
user9107868
Tells ya never to try chatting in 2 rooms at once
user9107868
13:02
Who is the room owner?
I am
user9107868
well hi
@TheOneWhoMade there's a link in the upper right corner with more information about the room
user9107868
I was running a bot here yesterday, for the purpose of learning some grammar. @rene sorry for not telling you bout it
Please keep your bots out of this room.
user9107868
13:04
k that is fine with me @rene
Even after telling me
user9107868
I got that part. @rene
Just to be clear. @gunr2171 did the right thing. Don't go around blaming him.
user9107868
@rene he was never even chatting, just learning. But I understand.
Awesome
13:39
^^^ the first one is a repost of the second
13:53
How has this Meta answer survived so long?
@JoshCaswell weird from OP's SO posts doesnt look like a troll account..
@SurajRao Yeah, just making trouble I guess.
deleted as spam.. does spam in meta give 100 rep penalty as well?
Not sure.
14:22
Also, I put some more questions in the queue
@JoshCaswell It could easily be interpreted as an actual death threat. Joking, street-talk or whatever, such users need to be deleted.
@Machavity lol, just asking foir '42'
14:41
@Machavity "It's the place to ask stupid questions."
@SurajRao Sorry, I logged off before your message. Yes, you can name a variable the same as a type. There are rules for which (variable, class, package name) is chosen depending on the context, it's called obscuring.
No, no, it seems they like to upvote these useless questions..
@SotiriosDelimanolis thanks thats enlightening
15:03
@Adriaan yes, still a no mcve, since there is no error description, no question, just a dump of requirements and code
15:13
@JoshCaswell We don't moderate Meta. We only moderate Stack Overflow Main. If you find something that you feel is spam/rude on Meta (or anywhere on SE), you can bring it to Charcoal HQ.
why is everyone telling him to convert to a string?! 4x4 bytes in a single packet. bang.
@StephenKennedy How do you know it is 4 bytes per int?
@Olaf Actually I don't. I was thinking of C# int32
15:29
@StephenKennedy The question is about Java and C. While Java int has indeed 32 bits in 4 bytes of 8 bits each, C doesnt guarantee any of this.
@Olaf "The actual size of the integer types varies by implementation". Well, I learnt something interesting today. Ty Olaf.
TFW you have a randomly generated password and you memorize it
and then it expires =w=
@Makyen Got it; I was unaware. Sorry about that.
@StephenKennedy If you cite the answer: that is far from complete and recommends a wrong approach for serialisation. There are very well platform-independent binary formats and they are strongly recommended.
@Olaf I was citing "C data types" from Wikipedia
15:49
@StephenKennedy Ah, ok, I check the standard, but the information is more spread over multiple sections there.
Rant incoming. :). OP has twp previous question on hold for being opinion based or too broad. OP asks a new question. You answer said question. Op responds in comments that answer is correct. Op then proceeds to ask in comments the same question that was closed. Hold the answer ransom till you answer totally different question. SIGH. Lesson learned. Stop answering questions from help-vamps.
help vampire 101
yep live and learn
I hate teh vamps. It's always night time somewhere so we get no rest from them:(
16:05
@Nkosi Well, let's see how he reacts to my comment.
@StephenKennedy ' 4x4 bytes in a single packet' - TCP cannot transfer packets larger than one byte in one call.
@MartinJames We should equip all lamps with UV LEDs. I'm confident the EU could make that mandatory.
@Olaf Just saw what you did. I was tempted to just delete my answer and move on. Last time I did something like that OP did not take it too likely and and ended up with serial down votes. :P
@MartinJames If you say so :)
I guess we shall wait and see. on to the next Q then
16:08
@StephenKennedy The 4-int 'packets' will get sliced and diced. At least with ASCII decimal/hex, you can use a NUL or CR as a message terminator.
@Nkosi Nevermind, you can still delete it later. That way it is not you to get the heat and maybe a third person pointing at the rules might help to keep things from overheating. Problem with deleting is OP already got his answer and HVs don't care if others profit from an answer.
@Olaf This got me thinking. You know what would be cool. A user script with a black list of known Help vampires that warns you when hover over the Post your answer button if you are sure you want to deal with this HV. lol
@MartinJames What?? How come I can send a memory block in one rush? If both ends are in-sync, ther is no ned for framing. Not that it would not be reasonable he said scratching his head wondering if the multiple negations are correct
@Olaf You cannot with TCP. Not reliably. You need a protocol on top.
@Nkosi It would, but it would also not help much due to the omnipresent cucumbers. And without them, it would cut down the user-base by 50% or more. (plus these folks don't care about registring a new account for every question)
16:12
@MartinJames A promise that every 16 bytes is a message IS a protocol
lol yeah for sure
@Olaf quality over quantity. :P
QOTD: fo sho
@StephenKennedy Indeed it is. OP said 'four ints'.
@MartinJames TCP guarantees all data to be transfered in the correct order and unchanged. So if you agree on both sides about the message-length, it is bascially fine. (Although I agree I also prefer some frame-delimiter or at least a length-field).
@Machavity I must know, how should I pronounce Machavity
16:15
@MartinJames Oh you're late to the party then :) Olaf already corrected me about C integer lengths
@Nkosi That instantly goes south when a site tries to earn money (for whatever reason).
@TylerH I just liked the name from the poem. I pretend the h is silent
@Olaf ..and message content. If it's four 4-byte ints, the bytes better be the right way round:)
@Machavity So Mock-uh-vittie
or Ma-cavity
@TylerH I tend to ah over uh, butt yeah
@TylerH That
16:17
@MartinJames Oh, that is guaranteed. (it also applies if you have some framing). Btw: there is a reason in networking the term "octet" is used, not "byte".
The power of suggestion: I want Mocha now.
@TylerH That's what I said when I went to the dentist
like a country bumpkin saying "aw, ma cavity!" and rubbing his tooth
2
@MartinJames I'm drinking a white chocolate mocha right now
^^ lol
^this. country bumpkin here, confirms.
16:18
@StephenKennedy That can't be repeated too often ;-)
@TylerH The TS Elliot poem (yes, it's also a song in Cats)
Are there any esoteric programming language for/by cats?
#CATS :p
@kayess Only the LOL kind. Maybe @Compass should write one
lol @Mac
16:21
Ah no :( Misremembered. It's LOLCODE. "LOLCODE is an esoteric programming language inspired by lolspeak, the language expressed in examples of the lolcat Internet meme."
That new programming language should use scratch operators only
_\|/_ <- die() for ex.
Any cat code should just randomly stop and start working on an entirely different thread. just because
Yeah only Jon Skeet could run it properly
@kayess `98ß 09870 t8760tfr2fh 0pf k´
Cat walking over keyboard.
I never found out what that means.
@Olaf did you use the purring hash algo?
16:29
@kayess No, it was copied out of memory, because I don't have a cat, but saw this at a friend, so it might have some syntax errors.
@SardarUsama That's a bit old for a cv-pls. Please don't forget to mention recent activity (like the edit) for older posts.
Hmm, our new "Digital State secretary" wants mandatory "porgramming class" at elementary schools (ca. age 6-9 resp. 11). I wonder how that works with kids in some Bundesländern here learn normal reading/writing by "write as it sounds". A compiler is not that forgiving like humans. So next is compilers have to use AI algorithms to parse the syntax of their code? I should learn LOLCODE, looks like that's the future …
Anyway, afk for 1 hour or so - crying
16:48
@Machavity every time I switch back to this tab and see this I do a double take
@StephenKennedy The Smokey replies?
@Machavity Yes. It's my initials!
Mr Software D. Kit
@Olaf All C, C++ etc. compilers will be found politically incorrect because three pages of error-messages are disrespectful and demeaning. Only languages with dire syntax, loose typing and hopelessly ineffective error-catching will be allowed, so as to 'level the playing field'.
@MartinJames Yes. And the rresulting programs work perfectly or not or do something completely unintended, but don't generate any output not to offend the programmers. Why do the large public IT projects from the last 20 years pop up in my mind now?
17:04
@Olaf Sad, but true. I hate these school 'programming initiatives'. They are not there to teach students, just to give the impression that something is being done. The kids who have no aptitude for software will have their time wasted, and kids who are interested and show promise/skill will just get bored with the obviously near-useless gruel they are force-fed.
@MartinJames "I hate these school 'programming initiatives'" - Guess what I think about them ;-\ The forum on the IT-site I read them (heise.de, afaik the largest German IT-related site) also found pretty clear words about such initiatives. Problem is this is not some rear-bank politician, but the (designated) coordinator for "digital" themes in the Bundeskanzleramt, i.e. she has almost the level of a minister. She also talked about other things which let's reasonable people shiver.
The problem is the kids need to understand how science, research and engineering works. Not singular island skills (preferably with MS-branded sh** of course - where's the briefcase?).
What do you mean MS-branded shenanigans? Do you not program in Word?
@Olaf There is such a massive gulf between politics and programming. A modern CPU performs hundreds of millions of operations per second, executes every one perfectly, and, if some thing does go wrong, it's almost impossible to cover it up. A politician, however, well, I mean, they cannot perform any one operation without numbers from a poll and, if something goes wrong, they can cover it up until the next patsy gets into office and can take the blame:(
17:22
"executes every one perfectly" - did you ever read the erratas even of small MCUs, not to mention Spectre or Meltdown? The first Pentium also comes into mind … Worst thing is: some of the bugs are not even deterministic. Add the new tensor-cores in some recent and future chips (GPUs, SoCs), et voila: digital meets politics. How much for a small private island?
@RiggsFolly Bleh. Should have hammered it. 3 answers now
Ron
Ron
o/
Ron
Ron
Is it me or is there a large influx of nonsense questions?
Probably me.
Seriously, who wants to wager a guess on what percentage of these are duplicates... stackoverflow.com/…
@StephenKennedy a poignant guess
@TylerH thirty thousand questions? o.0 Even the titles of the top few reek of duplicates
17:42
@Machavity You try to be nice and then that happens
@RiggsFolly You really think OP can write such an application? I don't.
18:09
Someone asked about a cat-based esolang?
The language is programmed using the 9 cat emoji: ( 😸 😹 😺 😻 😼 😽 😾 😿 🙀 ) All other characters are ignored.
@kayess @Machavity
@Compass Nice
18:36
Does this C++ question strike anyone else as No MCVE/Too Broad homework?
There's a Meta for it so be careful CVing at present
@MartinJames int.to_s(2).chars.map(&{'0' => "OFF", '1' => "ON"}).join(" ")
@JohnDvorak lol, please post that as an answer, I've not downvoted an answer for ages:)
@TylerH that link is bookmark material
@Machavity not only C++, also MATLAB (which I do happen to speak). I'd say it's too broad, but in general I think it lacks the , in which this kind of broad questions are apparently allowed
@MartinJames he wants C :-(
18:39
@Adriaan Well, a mod edited it at one point so I guess it's ok
@JohnDvorak Yeah, lol
@Machavity this might be one of those posts which just go too high too fast for the official rules to apply to it
@Machavity It's obviously flatpack assembly. OP lost the instructions from its Ikea box.
2
18:58
Here's the Meta if you want to chime in. Quite lively since Servy asserted the audit answer does answer the question
What concerns me most here is that the question (and audited answer) are not very good, yet they are being utterly well received.
€ácccccccáééáé    I can't find c-cedilla either:(
@MartinJames There you go. ç
@E_net4 WHERE IS IT? I'm getting annoyed now! :)
@MartinJames if you're on a US-international keyboard: ' and c
19:02
Also, my screeen has gone sideways, an IE window has popped up with some spam and my SOCVR font has gone stupid small.
@Machavity I almost agree with him. Almost.
I guess that randomly pushing keys is not a good way to find a specific character/accent.
My PC is all f'ed up., Gotta reboot now.
@MartinJames Sorry to spoil you, but the Portuguese keyboard layout makes it too easy. :>
I still wouldn't flag, though
19:22
@NathanOliver You running for mod again?
@Machavity Yeah. Did they announce they will hold another election?
@NathanOliver 12 March iirc
Nah it's just over everyone's head :-)
We should all know what those symbols mean in every context
19:35
@Adriaan yep I'm sure half the ones on the first page are duplicates
find me someone with a gold badge in jquery and we can change that :-P
@TylerH Or add the JS tag to all of them and have Paul Roub have at it ;)
lol
most of those have it already cc @PaulRoub ...
I'm at loss with questions like this one -- it's not for SuperUser (web platform), not for Unix, and hardly for a ServerFault (managing in business environment). Does it really belong to SO? Or how should it be closed?
@techraf Customer Support. They need to ask Google, not come here and get a link
@Machavity I envisioned that answer... I should have given a better example.
I wanted to ask about questions that ask about CLI for GCloud... like stackoverflow.com/q/49127515
19:48
@techraf "professional server administration". Flush and wave goodbye.
20:21
Hi all! o/
Hi all. Send in the duplicates to close so I can make use of my new gold badge :) (sorry I meant )
I C
>1 Mjolnir / year, not bad.
thanks :) been working my a** off for that one :)
Things will go downhill from this point...
1.4k and still cannot ask a good question...
Time to become an expert in , whatever that means. =D
@Jean-FrançoisFabre You've asked two already! stackoverflow.com/help/badges/21/good-question?userid=6451573
20:31
@BaummitAugen playing with words :) I meant "an OK question". 25 votes for a question now on the main site is really rare.
yeah, I crave for the gold badge. I only have bronze.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre No you don't. lol stackoverflow.com/help/badges/209/list?userid=6451573
Do I know your profile better than you? ;P
I'm beginning to wonder !
more seriously, now I'll be hunting the gold, because it's sometimes handy when OP posts an obvious dupe but doesn't tag .
or too
Plus it's shiny.
oooh silver badge? WTF!!!
Rofl. =D
20:35
You could get c gold as well. Edit out all the std::cout from a C++ strtok question you answered to, change C++ tag to C, voilà :)
repeat as many times as needed, without abusing...
@Jean-FrançoisFabre It does not work if you edit the tags yourself afaik.
@Olaf oh yes it does.
@Olaf I think that applies only to hammers.
You guys don't read my meta posts? I'm disappointed :): meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/364099/abusing-tag-edits
@Jean-FrançoisFabre That would be 165 questions to retag, though, that might be a bit much. XD
20:37
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Heck, so if I had left the C tag at the mis-tagged C++ questions I answered, I already had a C gold badge? Damit.
@Olaf probably.
Ok, I'm n/a. Retagging all questions I answered with the C tag, helpful or not …
@BaummitAugen Ah, that was it, yeah, thanks.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Real engineers don't read manuals!
@Olaf if they're tagged and only contains C code, you should do that. And if you don't feel like it, gimme the links.
@Olaf and real websites don't need any documentation.
@BaummitAugen and I fear that it would be seen as abusing the system, even if it's legit.
(personally I never did this, even if I was tempted to)
Me neither, not really worth it anyways.
Once I remove the C++ tag, the question is out of sight and thus out of mind. :)
@BaummitAugen worth it when a super-obvious dupe gets 53 dumb answers in 2 minutes.
@BaummitAugen yeah c++ is way better than c. Way more complex & evolving a lot as well. I could have competed for C++ gold if SO was up around 2005, but now all I could answer would be obvious dupes.
If tagged C++, they'll get a C++ dupe if there's any way to justify it. Otherwise, I won't even see it.
With C, you're safe about too much evolutions :)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Try , awesome average score. :)
I removed the c++ tag from my filter.
@BaummitAugen I'm not skilled for this tag. I'm more an empiric kind of guy. Almost never quoted the C norm either in 400+ C answers
20:47
@Jean-FrançoisFabre If I removed the C tag, they are about C++, not C. Of course I was just kidding about retagging. If it really bothered me cruising slightly below the gold badge, I already had cucumbered some answers for C and got the badge.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Engineers don't do websites either :-)
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Ah ok. I used to be in awe when I saw those standard quotes in answers as a low rep pleb, until I learned that's super easy to learn and extremely lucrative rep wise. =D
@BaummitAugen Funny, it#s similar for me and C++. Just the other way 'round.
@Olaf, yes, but it's not as easy to cucumber answers for C. The question must not be an obvious dupe, and not too bad. I had a hard time getting 1000 votes because of that.
@Olaf Not too surprising, given our respective focus on this site.
@BaummitAugen I know a guy (BS are his initials, no kidding) who always decorates his answers with a lot of links, including the link to the C norm) and sometimes gets a lot of votes (sometimes a lot of downvotes as well because he's annoying :))
20:50
@Jean-FrançoisFabre "Way more complex" == better? you have strange measures. There is a proverb: there are two kinds of idi**s: One who says "this is old, this is good" and the other saying "this is new, it is better".
his answers look like a Xmas tree, even when answering linked lists questions :)
Eh, links I don't do much, and I try to avoid useless standard quotes.
@Olaf more complex but also more powerful... just replace your char * stuff by std::string and malloc by std::vector and you never get UB again.
Usually, OP can just take my word for it.
But when it's useful, it's usually a decent question which then yields decent reward.
@BaummitAugen But it is interesting how different focus still can give similar impressions. Or don't you think the overall quality of questions has decreased over the years?
20:51
I like linking on an SO post when I suggest an improvement I lifted from a google search that led me to this post
(specially when I copy the code from the post)
(without it being a duplicate !!)
@Olaf Dunno actually, I've seen a lot of garbage since I started.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Thy this on a bare-metal embedded system or any other hard real-time application and I show you a point of failure. The proverb has much more implications than the instantly visible.
yes C++ has more overhead. I've coded real-time apps with C++, but was always using address of vectors for the inner loops for speed.
@BaummitAugen Well, I followed SO some years before I registered. At least for stable languages like C (and partially C++), it is clear it becomes harder to post a "new" question, expecially for beginners.
(because inlining doesn't work :))
20:55
Maybe there is more mud in between the pearls now, that's probably true.
well , was nice talking to you guys. Time to hit the old piano :)
@Olaf Compared to the very early days, that's certainly true. But the really low hanging fruit were long gone when I joined.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre "real-time apps" are most likely not the same as a car braking system of a medical infusion system where violation of real-time constraints can kill people. Although some kids get close to a heart attack if their youtube stream stutters on their phone for a second, this has a much smaller impact than a train not braking in time or a some kW motor breaking due to a timing failure in commutation.
So now, most posts are either OT or a dupe, but that does not feel new.
@Jean-FrançoisFabre Cya.
@BaummitAugen Of course they were. And I'm well aware I'd not post some of my early answers with my experience from today. There is a reason I hadn't answered a single question since months.
50 close-votes a day keep cucumbers away
21:02
@Olaf I actually got lucky and came across three nice ones last month, which I don't think are dupes.
@EJoshuaS Let's get rid of the question, too.
@BaummitAugen Hmm, If I just had the 10 hours time to verify that assertion … :-)
(and if I just cared)
@Olaf I did not spend 10h I admit. But I did search.
@BaummitAugen That about trees haveing all the time in the world.
@Olaf Ah, I wish.
21:15
@Olaf Yes, I agree - it should go - it's OT and also asks multiple questions at once. I'm out of close votes, though :(
21:33
@EJoshuaS Well, let's hope others here have a vote or two left:-)
Just to formalize the request
22:12
@TylerH See, this is why we need to gain reputation for closing-as-duplicate.
22:28
^ smokey's last
22:47
@EJoshuaS They're trolling. Just let them be.

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