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9:00 PM
eventual goal is 4 but we don't want to watch it without the prequels
 
@Braiam LoL.
 
so, found quantum moves...
 
@KirkWoll Let's stop it for now guys... Please?
 
and of course, we're all pedants here, and so such disagreements engender lively debates. :)
2
@PraveenKumar, i think we're all having fun at this point. :)
 
@KirkWoll You know that in this room the rule is to agree on disagreeing : )
 
9:01 PM
+1 :)
 
@KirkWoll The OP will be able to see what happened and they will also know what's the answer. :)
 
@KirkWoll --pedant is the default configure option
4
 
@PetterFriberg Ha ha... +1! :)
 
Sam
@Braiam Yep
 
@KirkWoll Definitely... Read the rules. No Fun.*
* When ROs are around.
 
9:02 PM
OK, so what about a "lacks any understanding" flag? stackoverflow.com/questions/37231453/…
 
2 days ago, by rene
Let's not do that here, we have had enough fun
 
@MartinJames that's a terribel question
voted to delete.
 
@MartinJames Gone..
@KirkWoll Wow... Sorry buddy, didn't notice... You really have a great rep... I thought you were a newbie... :D
Welcome to SOCVR.
I am Praveen, the Smokey Stalker... :P
 
finally decided to dip my feet into this chat room ;) (but am a newbie in this room :) )
 
lol:D
 
9:04 PM
Welcome!
 
thanks! :)
 
@KirkWoll Anyone gave you the welcome speech yet?
 
talk about authoratitativity
 
lol, i don't think so
i'm game
 
Well,
 
9:04 PM
Shuddup, noob! Oh, delvotes? Come and have a beer! ;D
 
:)
 
he also have a hammer in C#
 
@Braiam if you haven't seen Primer yet, go ahead and do. 3 times. It's the minimal amount necessary.
 
another beer!
 
@PetterFriberg so he can summon The Skeet at will?
 
9:07 PM
@KirkWoll Plop! Welcome to SOCVR, a sometimes friendly room in which we coordinate moderation efforts and review together, discuss policies, and all try to make SO a better place. There's a FAQ linked on our Team Page giving some data about what's accepted and what's not in here. As you can already see, screwing around is perfectly fine. Also scripts, bots, waffles, Plop, and ROs with letters for avatars.
 
> discuss policies
check
 
rant about SO rules
 
thanks @Kyll, appreciated!
 
> and spearrels
forgot that one ^
 
T'was implied
 
9:10 PM
@Kyll U kick, NO?
 
squeaks and hides
@KirkWoll beware the flower
 
goes back to sleep
 
hmm, enigmatic ;)
 
@rene I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
 
phew, that was close
 
9:11 PM
 
Okay, rene most definitely reviews in his sleep now.
 
(too broad for realz, on that one)
 
@KirkWoll I went custom
 
@KirkWoll I went unclear : )
 
fair enough :)
 
9:13 PM
Off to me bed. Night!
 
Goodnight @Kyll
 
Sam
Cya
 
rene passed a audit!
 
9:25 PM
@KirkWoll can you use the user script or at least use [tag:cv-pls] at the start. That helps our scripts to clean-up messages
the user script is here
 
@rene
oops
but what do you mean? i think i'm unfamiliar with the process
(i want to play ball)
 
And hello o/
 
can you elaborate a bit?
i want to be helpful :)
 
We like to keep track of stuff we close. Once closed it is moved to CV Graveyard where we can quickly find closed question in case we are called out on meta
 
So every request is formatted in a certain way, and there's a userscript that does the formatting for us.
 
9:29 PM
For that to work we want the links to be in a special format
 
but what should i do differently? (like i said, i do want to follow protocol :) )
(i was just copying the links on SO... i guess i need to format it differently?)
 
If you post a link type this [tag:cv-pls] reason http://stackoverflow.com/q/1
 
got it, thanks! will do
 
Or even better use the cv-pls script I linked to earlier
 
Alternatively, you can install this script github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/UserScripts/blob/master/… with GreaseMonkey or TamperMonkey depending on your browser.
 
9:31 PM
^
 
ok, i'll try that out. thanks!
ok, this has been fun. i'll be back. take that as a threat or not! ;)
 
@rene You've reviewed 40 posts today (of which 2 were audits), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 22 minutes and 26 seconds, averaging to a review every 33 seconds.
 
Sam
@KirkWoll Good to see a new face :)
 
@rene Why do we use a simple markdown file as FAQ and not the wiki? Couldn't we organize and structure the FAQ better? Since you will get a content table with the wiki.
 
@Rizier123 because I'm lazy? And because others can PR on those?
 
9:36 PM
@rene Ah I see you have the lazy evaluation gene :P (So there is no real reason behind it)
 
No, but we have some changes cooking so we might evaluate this as well
 
@rene Okay. Also is there any archive of all RO meetings? Or only the current one?
 
before that we never needed room meetings ...
 
The op could be on good faith the link is relative to question
 
The post does seem legit. But... ick.
 
9:49 PM
He is also responding to comments... yeah ick... maybe put link in code block?
 
@rene May I ask who is involved in those changes :P? And what is planed?
 
@Rizier123 some rewrites / reshuffle of stuff, the RO team is working on that with @Mogsdad most active on that
 
@rene Also another question. Why not directly a .io page?
 
We didn't consider it. When we moved from the original meta-post to github we didn't envision things would grow like this.
 
user3956566
> I don't understand what age has to do with it. .../... I really want this room and its members to be mature.
 
9:56 PM
@rene We had a meta post about SOCVR :O?
 
user3956566
@rene you also need to take into account that not all personality types will respond to your style of guidance. There are literal types and some people need hard and fast guidelines, discretion for some does not work.
 
@Yvette Yes, that seems to be true. Not sure if I'm up for that task
@Rizier123 that is at the bottom of our faq
 
Sam
@rene That's why you have an RO team. :)
Anyway, we're supposed to be collectively working together to build a better community/library of Q/As.
 
user3956566
@rene it's a matter of sometimes allowing some people to draw a line. Without going into the ins and outs of it. Sometimes a bit of trust goes a long way. As I don't believe I am given much of that in this room, in terms of credibility.
 
@Yvette I don't think that is true.
 
10:01 PM
@rene wow. Now we even have a reason to create our own meta tag: :P
 
user3956566
I have to sit and wait while dozens of cv requests are pinged to the room, watch two ROs not handle, I finally speak up and the person then understands the reasoning. and then I decide to act upon it with two other members, as I don't see anyone else acting upon it.
 
user3956566
It is true
 
@Yvette Was missing your presence before some time.. A big argument happened, and I seem lost. You would have helped me. :(
 
user3956566
And age does make a difference. The older members here know that. when you're dealing with people who are the same age as your children, there is a difference in how you communicate when you're drawing the line
 
user3956566
@PraveenKumar thanks love
 
10:03 PM
@Yvette Uh, I don't have children. I am a child already. :P
@Yvette :) :)
 
user3956566
@PraveenKumar I know darling! lol My point exactly
 
Ha ha ha...
 
user3956566
:D
 
@Yvette there are no obligations here and as I said before we noticed that the cv-pls were beyond what we could handle. Doing the right thing needs some discussion. It is great that you speak up and we will take your direction into account but please accept things go in my pace.
 
user3956566
@rene yes your pace
 
user3956566
10:05 PM
and there's a "RO team". Really are the rest of us here just to do the bidding of the team?
 
Yes
 
user3956566
We have to run it by a committe
 
No, never
 
user3956566
well the rest of SO doesn't work like that
 
user3956566
we do.
 
10:06 PM
I know
 
user3956566
We have to run it by the ROs
 
Sam
@Yvette FYI, Alex and myself also talked with the user in question before you even entered the room.
 
user3956566
@Sam which one?
 
Sam
16 hours ago, by Alexander O'Mara
Take it easy there.
13 hours ago, by Sam
@AA (cc @Alexander) There isn't a "set in stone" time limit. Just use your own judgement on a per post basis. We do, however, ask that you keep cv-plses for Qs that have been active within the last couple of months or so (again, "couple of months" doesn't literally mean a solid 60 days).
 
user3956566
Oh yes I saw that
 
user3956566
10:07 PM
so did rene
 
user3956566
Yes and when you gave that guidance the user then posted another request, you said slow it down to less than a minute and the user took your advice literally
 
user3956566
I've been with him in Charcoal (he's a very nice person I might add), But also very literal
 
user3956566
and it's important to observe people's personalities and talk to them in a language they understand
 
user3956566
Hence I showed him the room requests and it hit home
 
user3956566
and he understood well a fixed limit e.g. 5 is just a number
 
user3956566
10:09 PM
it could as easily be 10
 
user3956566
And when people are full throttle and don't understand how to define the limits set in the faq it can be helpful to them and to all to give a number out of a hat to slow things down
 
Sam
> Is it okay if I cv-pls once in a while?
 
user3956566
I am not being unkind, but putting in a language those people can understand?
 
Sam
Now, how would you define "once in a while" in that sentence?
 
We agree on some limit, not on a fixed number. I'm more looking for the quality of the cv-pls
 
user3956566
10:10 PM
@Sam what once in a while means to you means something different to another person
 
user3956566
@rene you're missing the point
 
sure
 
user3956566
I am not suggesting a fixed limit across the board
 
I'm out of here, have fun all
 
Sam
@Yvette Exactly, and so it should be. We don't want everyone to become literal robots.
 
user3956566
10:11 PM
@rene fine then
 
Sam
Thou shalt post more then 3.14 cv-plses per day.
People love to pick on numbers.
 
@Mogsdad Are you actively working on the SOCVR wiki?
 
user3956566
the number was to reach the people who didn't understand the subtleties
 
Sam
So we try to stay away from setting hard limits.
 
user3956566
It is clear everything I have just said has been misunderstood
 
10:12 PM
In general I think new user are full with energy trying to do a difference, so its normal for any new user to post 100K requests, but I think we can live with that energy for a day or two, trying to explain why not post to many...
 
user3956566
sigh
 
Regular users learn when to post and not but its a learning process
 
Sam
@Yvette I get what you're saying. I just don't see how we can accommodate everyone by setting hard limits.
 
user3956566
I give up trying to communicate in here, cos obviously I'm talking to a brick wall
 
user3956566
Telling a few prolific posters to limit it to 5 cvs per day is sometimes the only way to get them to slow down
 
user3956566
10:14 PM
or 10 a day
 
user3956566
doesn't matter
 
@Yvette Not true but you need to communicate with us, maybe I'm just a very tolerant parent.
 
Sam
@Yvette That's the problem with people who are too literal.
 
user3956566
what you let your kids run around doing what ever they want and pull them up when they finally break a window?
 
Well if the video game is new I let them play an extra hour..., but maybe thats just me
 
user3956566
10:16 PM
that's out of context
 
All right I caught up the discussion. @Yvette just so the point is clear: you'd like certain users (those that posts too much) to be restricted on the numbers of cv-pls, is that right?
 
user3956566
my kids lose the internet if they're out of control
 
Sam
@Tunaki There's a deeper issue than that.
 
user3956566
it was s simple guidance didn't need to be law and warrant so much discussion, but the users who clearly cannot grasp what everyone else sees as the guidelines. then saying, stick to this <insert hard limit> is helpful. You can't even say about this number, because any leeway is taken as a mile
 
user3956566
@Sam it's not deep, it's simple
 
user3956566
10:18 PM
like when people are chatting too much here and people ask them to quieten down.
 
I get what you're saying. Yeah it's simple really: when a user is caught not following guidance, they need to be put into a restriction box explicitely
is that what you're saying?
 
user3956566
doesn't have to be written in law
 
user3956566
But yes
 
user3956566
I'm not meaning Ashish, he was learning and is ok
 
user3956566
he will find his feet
 
10:19 PM
Yes, this is more of a general discussion.
 
user3956566
I suggested limit it to 5 per day, as way of him self monitoring and he understood that
 
user3956566
He thinks the way I do
 
user3956566
we talk a lot in Charcoal
 
user3956566
but with some people who've been here for months, it's a bit different
 
user3956566
and it's not about shaming people, but reaching an understanding
 
user3956566
10:21 PM
ok I've hogged the chat here too long
 
Yes. The point is to make the members follow the general guidance.
 
user3956566
yep and when they can't understand that, throw an example hard limit, so they actually understand it in how it pans out in reality.
 
user3956566
this is what genuine cv requests as per the guidelines look like approx 5-10 per day, if you're going over that, you're probably be over doing it
 
user3956566
How hard is that
 
I think that's a good idea
 
Sam
10:25 PM
Again, a "genuine cv req" is not universally defined.
 
When I first read the FAQs, it wasn't clear to me when to . The fact that it linked to the FAQ for a Python chat room didn't help.
 
Sam
That'll need further discussion.
 
Thanks @Yvette for bringing this up. I got your point (I think :) ). We'll discuss that between ourselves.
@NobodyNada Yes, that is true, there's a link to the Python chat room
 
The guidelines for the Python room "cv-pls posts that are Python or really bad," and this room isn't tag-specific, so that made it a bit more confusing.
 
ah okay, thanks for raising that
 
Sam
10:31 PM
It would be interesting to see what this room's regulars would come up with if they had to write rules for cv-pleses.
(Not meaning that to sound patronising in anyway.)
 
I think there should be a note in the faq along the lines of the python rules: "cv-pls what is reaaaaally bad"
 
I'm actually for no maximum limit, there is people here all day and some only 30 min, but I think instead user should understand that we have just 40 votes and ask them-self why do we need to vote on this?, why do it need our vote?... and if we do not agree we may just ignore the cv-pls after the 20 request.
 
it just has to be made clear that not anything close-worthy should be cv-pls'ed, only close-worthy bad bad posts
 
@AndrasDeak reaaaally bad is not correct to me (it will probably be roomba), its more cv request if we need to close it fast (spam, fgitw), or low-traffic tag ecc..
 
that should be a filter by itself, and it would stifle the many over-cv-pls attempts stemming from mere enthusiasm
@PetterFriberg spam -> no cv-pls, but report & flag
fgitw -> if you mean really basic stupid question, then it's "reaaaally bad"
 
10:42 PM
@AndrasDeak Sorry was intending question that ask for spam answers
 
low-traffic tag: I'm not sure that merits a cv-pls, any low-traffic tag could saturate the voting capabilities of SOCVR quickly
@PetterFriberg blatant link recs are also "reaaaally bad"
but there's a lot of grey posts, such as "I'm thinking about doing this like that, are there other ways?" which many would close as tool rec, yet shouldn't merit a cv-pls
similarly "meh, I'm not sure what OP means" doesn't merit a cv-pls, even if one would vote on it
and the real problem is with these
if somebody posts 5 cv-pls'es fairly quickly, but all of them are blatantly poo questions, it's much less of a problem
 
Anyone worked with Jekyll before? Is it good?
 
in my opinion, the problem is when eager users find the cv-pls script and cv-pls everything they find closeable
 
Hmm, people that monitors low-traffic tags really needs help, its impossibile to close question otherwise and trust me I do not post stuff that will be roomba or can live around with no problem.. cimmon left for this reason
 
that doesn't imply that all the poo should be channeled here in the form of cv-pls requests, does it?
 
10:46 PM
@Rizier123 Nope only Hyde ;)
 
No you post because you need it closed for some reason that review que is not good, this is why really baaaad is not a good definition (the review que will handle these), while according to me (FGITW can merit, low-traffic tag specific questions can merit, spam target question can merit, difficult case question can merit)
 
@NathanOliver No idea what that is.
 
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
 
@Rizier123 joke ^
 
subcategory of fun
 
10:52 PM
but since fun isn't allowed.
Nathan's RO mandate should be put down effective immediatly.
 
11:19 PM
GitHub and Git are just so complicated for me. I don't know what it is, but I always spend more time with GitHub and Git than actually doing work
 
Yeah that's the feature of Git.
Making you lose a lot of time.
 
Am I alone with this? :-(
 
sorry for the onebox
 
it's okay :)
 
11:22 PM
@rene are you here?
*I think he is sleeping, so you are okay with it @NobodyNada*
 
Everytime I want to make something that ought to be simple, I spend the whole night on it.
 
@Tunaki 01:22 almost night :P
 
git hell every where, moving back to svn
 
When I start to pull and there's a conflict, I just delete everything and start over.
 
That sounds like a horrible approach...
How hard is it to resolve a merge conflict?
 
11:26 PM
I still have to find the right and correct sequence of steps to follow everytime it happens. I'm not using the CLI by the way but integration in IDE.
 
All you're supposed to do with a merge conflict is search for <<<<<<<, =======, and >>>>>>>, and then choose what bits you want to keep (< to = is ours, = to > is theirs).
 
Error messages aren't really helping either. Maybe you can tell me. I try to push, I get "error: non fast forward". What does that even mean?!
 
yeah but since I'm the only one on the project, I don't see how that could have happened :).
 
origin is probably still ahead of local. For instance, if you edited from the web or pushed from a different branch...
 
11:31 PM
I need a good book on Git. Any recommendations?
 
@Tunaki I assume Pro Git is too obvious? I bought the paper copy and have used it as a reference for years.
 
@Tunaki "git commit suicide --force" Would be a good title for it
 
Never had to look anywhere else so I don't know if there is a better book out there.
 
@RichardSlater I tried to read it. but coming from SVN world, Idk, it's unreadable.
Meh, i'll need to try again
@Rizier123 :D
 
@Tunaki I came from SVN too, but when I joined a new team I had to learn git, now it seems second nature -- keep persisting it gets easier.
 
11:38 PM
It already took me a long time to grasp that "commit" didn't mean "sending it to remote".
 
@Tunaki have you found this yet: Git for Subversion Users
 
ah no, thanks!
 
@RichardSlater The thing is if you don't need to use it all the time and just once in a while you never get around to get it fully into your mind
Rizier123.takeBreak("5minutes");
If(Still_does_not_work())
nuke();
 
Yeah but the thing I don't like with those cheatsheets is when things starts to go wrong.
 
@Rizier123 it's very true, personally I use it for all of my open source so even if I am stuck with a TFS client for 12 months I keep my git sharp.
 
11:42 PM
the happy path is quite straight-forward
 
Plop!
@Tunaki Ah sorry, I was sick :(
 
git add git commit git push
@KevinGuan oh are you better now?
 
Yep
 
and then, when you git push and it fails, all the cheatsheets fall apart :D
All hell breaks loose
 
@KevinGuan 漢字 (Plop! in chinese; Just kidding some random characters from wikipedia :P)
 
11:46 PM
You actually called him a waffle.
@KevinGuan Awesome :)
 
@Rizier123 Hmm...actually it just means "Chinese".
@Tunaki Thanks =D
 
Yeah, or "Chinese characters".
 
I'm not sure if that means it's not a valid sentence and those are just Chinese characters, or if that literally means "Chinese characters."
 
@KevinGuan Is there an actual translation to "Plop!" in Chinese? So we could confuse Plop master Kyll? :D
 
11:50 PM
@Tunaki I've noticed you've started reviewing! I'll update your session record.
 
@NobodyNada Well, that just means "Chinese characters". For example, "这些是漢字" (means: These are Chinese characters.).
 
oh, you're from China
 
@Rizier123 Sure not, see what NobodyNada gives =p
@NobodyNada Yep =D
 
sorry; I didn't know that
 
11:52 PM
@KevinGuan So 白楊 really means Plop? So we can all write that when the squirrel wakes up?
 
And by the way, "撲通!" means "fall or cause to fall with a plop."
@Rizier123 Well, it's a type of trees.
 
Tunaki passed a audit!
 
@KevinGuan That will do. The squirrel will like trees. So we will all write "白楊" when the squirrel comes, right?!
 
Maybe, but how about "松树" then? =p
And actually, I don't know how to say "Plop" in Chinese. I don't speak Kyllish really.
@NobodyNada Oh, however you know that now :)
 
@Tunaki You've reviewed 40 posts today (of which 1 was an audit), thanks! The time between your first and last review today was 7 minutes and 3 seconds, averaging to a review every 10 seconds.
 

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