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12:04 AM
@NathanOliver really hoping we don't have to add "don't rob banks" to the SOCVR rules...
 
if you do does the federal reserve count as a bank?
 
 
4 hours later…
5:43 AM
this was discussed here a couple of days ago, it is now ripe for del-pls if we agree that it should be deleted, but I'm divided - thoughts? stackoverflow.com/questions/75191306/…
@tripleee OP put in significant effort but still failed to ask a specific question, even so far as to specify a desired programming language for the solution
 
6:34 AM
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine RO probably remove this; the question was reopened, answered, and reclosed as a duplicate
 
7:17 AM
@TylerH that didn't last long; they've rolled back already. ah, it's already closed. Yea, let's leave it at that
 
@user56700 oof, the proposed canonical there is quite annoyingly poor.
not so much that it doesn't match this question, but that it, too, was a random debugging request that just happened to get elevated
one of the answers at the "canonical" happens to cover this person's issue indirectly, but not by actually directly engaging with... anything.
I see it got duped anyway. That's just as well; when there's a better canonical, both can be rerouted
 
7:34 AM
found another one with basically the same title, but it's not stellar either
 
@KarlKnechtel I'm sorry I don't think I understand all that you wrote, was I wrong in flagging it as a typo?
 
@user56700 I think your choice was fine, but it's better where possible to link things to a duplicate that explains the same typo - in cases where a lot of people "make the same typo", that implies that there is an actual underlying question (i.e. "why isn't this the correct thing to write?").
when I got to the question, I saw that someone else had separately proposed a duplicate, so I was just stream-of-thought commenting on that proposal.
@tripleee please put the link in PCD and we can talk about it later
 
7:49 AM
@KarlKnechtel Thanks for clarifying, I'm sorry I didn't see the duplicate vote before I voted it as a typo. My comments were not updated, at the time.
 
@mickmackusa In general, we don't talk about users. But when a user links their own answer in order to complain about something, that's a conflict of interest. I disagree that there is "no excuse". Mainly because I disagree that you are in an adequate position to judge whether your own answer is "correct, explained, and demo'd" in a way that "adds new insight to the page". I mean, every answer I write, I think is helpful. Otherwise I wouldn't waste my time. But it doesn't follow that I succeed in every attempt, nor that I am the best judge of my own labors. It isn't an accident that we don't let users upvote their own posts.
 
that's fine; these things happen all the time, and policy isn't that clear-cut either
 
@mickmackusa Personally, I find it off-putting, if not downright offensive, that you dismiss someone's vote as "shameful" and/or "purposeless" without any basis for doing so. As you yourself said, their reasons for voting the way that they did are opaque to you. That's fine, even understandable, but it doesn't prove that their vote was invalid or purposeless. It only means you don't understand it. Dismissing someone's vote as invalid without understanding it undermines the whole intent and function of our voting system.
2
 
KGG
8:09 AM
Yesterday when I was randomly checking the close tags here, I saw that the v: was at around 30k? or 3k, but today its at only 6 :O Does it mean that there was a user in the chat with 30k close votes available to them :O
 
What's a "v:"? What are you referring to?
@tripleee I still don't understand why someone doesn't just edit the question to clarify that they're asking for a solution in Python. To me, it seems like that would solve all of the problems.
 
KGG
Hmm can't find the right wording for it, once someone reports a question here, it will show the amount of people voted to close it as "c: (2)" if you hover over it, it will show the amount of "v:(7)"
 
@CodyGray We will have to agree to disagree. There is no benefit to readers when answers that provide clear insights have a negative score. If the answer isn't "helpful" to you, you can shrug and move on; there is no merit to downvoting good content. If there is something downvotable about the answer, a good curator will express that point so that neutralizers don't undo the meaningful action.
 
@KGG I don't see that; you probably have some userscript which does that?
@CodyGray perhaps, but that would be putting words in the OP's mouth which probably did not belong there originally; isn't that a problem, too?
 
The other answer never instantiates the result string before concatenating more text onto it -- so my opinion is that an answer that generates warnings should never have a higher score than a clean snippet that works and doesn't generate warnings. I can only presume malign voting reasons because the worse answer received no downvotes. The answer scores are definitely misleading readers. Stack Overflow has failed thanks to inappropriate voting.
 
KGG
8:18 AM
@tripleee You are correct, it was github.com/SO-Close-Vote-Reviewers/UserScripts doing it, I will go read more to see what it means :D
 
@mickmackusa No, you're just too impatient. If question and (your) answer are good, it will eventually attract upvotes.
 
@KGG which one? the page has many and I have a few of them installed too
 
KGG
@tripleee Unclosed Request Review Script :)
 
@mickmackusa I agree there is no merit in downvoting good content. However, the definition of "good content" is not universally held. There's no central arbiter for what is good content, and that arbiter is certainly not you when it comes to your own posts.
 
oh, I have that, and I see what you mean now; it adds a summary on the right of each request and hovering over that displays more details about the post's status (which I had not discovered before)
 
8:26 AM
@tripleee No, because they agreed/admitted in a comment that they were happy with a solution in Python, and they accepted an answer providing a solution in Python, so I don't think that such an edit would misrepresent their intent.
 
okay, I'll go ahead and make that change - thanks for reviewing
 
@JeanneDark The problem with the "wait and see" philosophy is that readers that should trust the advice in the post, but don't know the difference between good/bad content, will need to ignore the advice until the community informs them that it is good/trustworthy content. It could be years before that happens. All that time is wasted time.
 
KGG
@tripleee Haha silly me... the v:($) stands for views on that question
 
@MrUpsidown Misuse of the API is not non-reproducible.
 
8:37 AM
I have very recently been this reader (in another language). I didn't allow myself to trust the content that looked good to me, simply because of the negative score. I was not informed enough to neutralize the post. So that answer missed its chance on me and remained in negative territory.
 
There are other ways to verify the content of a post, other than just mindlessly looking at its score. At least, there is on a technical site like Stack Overflow.
 
@CodyGray The novice cannot be sure/confident. A negative score erodes reader confidence in a post. An informative comment would clarify what is downvote worthy of the post. Sometimes what is blindingly obvious to an SME is completely missed by a novice. No-comment downvotes do not make effort to be constructive on a site that intends to inform and educate.
 
@mickmackusa An informative comment can lead to revenge downvotes and so cause the problem you complain about, not solve it.
 
@JeanneDark That can be addressed by moderators if done in sufficient measure by the abuser. The opposite allows abusers to stealthily go one abusing. A sensible and constructive comment should not trigger revenge votes.
 
No, it can't.
 
8:47 AM
@mickmackusa Because mods have nothing better to do than monitor voting on every single post on SO?
 
Encouraging comments with downvotes will improve the feedback loop on improving content. No-comment downvoting turns off users and can lead to users abandoning the community.
I doubt that the downvoters of the post were thinking about future researchers when they downvoted.
 
Why do you doubt that?
You have created so much mythology in your mind about downvotes that you do not seem to be able to approach it rationally or with any evidence.
I downvote tons of posts. I almost never leave a comment. If I do, it never connects in any way to a vote. I never downvote without thinking of future researchers. That's the primary reason I downvote, in fact.
 
@mickmackusa People should write fewer, not more comments. Instead of downvoting and commenting why not downvote and write a better answer instead? SO is a Q&A site, after all. It also makes you no longer target of revenge downvotes because of the comments you leave.
 
Being a beginner in Python programming myself, It does feel like some people down vote just because they can and I mostly delete my answer in order to keep my reputation. :)
 
9:02 AM
Sigh. It really makes me feel like there's no hope when the very people you'd expect to have moved past inappropriate reactions to downvotes are behaving in precisely the ways we're trying to persuade new users to avoid.
 
@CodyGray there can be no concrete evidence because all votes have the pleasure of anonymity -- as you have enjoyed stating many times. It is a self-insulating luxury. We can prove how bad it is because no one can track it.
 
@mickmackusa Yes. So, really, you're upset that people have opinions that you disagree with on the Internet. Now you see how silly this is?
 
@CodyGray then I can safely assume that you did not downvote the post because that would needlessly damage the researcher experience.
 
@CodyGray sorry I thought I would share my opinion, you can delete it if it's not wanted :)
 
@mickmackusa No, this is completely and utterly unreasonable! Maybe there's a flaw with the answer that you are unaware of. Maybe I think the answer is not clear. Maybe I think it's poorly presented. There are dozens of reasons that I might downvote an answer to, in my opinion, improve the experience for future viewers. You start with the assumption that the answer is the bee's knees, and you aren't able to see past that.
 
9:05 AM
@JeanneDark people can stealthily revenge downvote for any reason they dream up -- that is also part of the problem.
@JeanneDark people can stealthily revenge downvote for any reason they dream up -- that is also part of the problem. I could have downvoted the self-answer and left a comment, but I answered instead -- see how that panned out?
 
@tacoshy knowing that this is called "masonry layout" seems useful in itself
 
@user56700 Do note that you can get upvotes in the future. I have multiple answers where I really got any traction on a year or more after they were posted.
 
KGG
@user56700 Python, C++, C, communities are full of really advanced, established developers. I'm glad I don't have this problem in my tags, since everyone is a beginner :D
 
@CodyGray If you disagree with something, clarify why you disagree. Otherwise the action isn't constructive; it is destructive.
 
@mickmackusa It seems you're arguing Jeanne's point. Instead of contributing the noise by posting a comment, you posted an answer. This is what we want to have happen. I still don't see the problem, aside from you being irritated that your answer, which you naturally think is great, getting a downvote from someone who obviously doesn't.
 
9:08 AM
@mickmackusa The cure would be worse than the disease it seems to me. I don't see how it would be beneficial if people were forced to leave a comment when downvoting an answer like "Bro, did you found solution?".
 
@mickmackusa You're confusing mechanisms that have nothing to do with one another. The "I want to clarify why I feel a certain way" button is the one that adds a comment. The "I want to give my opinion about this post" buttons are the one shaped like triangles. It's the difference between campaigning for a political leader vs. voting for them.
 
@KGG haha <3
 
@user56700 I NEVER delete my answers after receiving no-comment downvotes. They are petty activities that should not be rewarded by me deleting my generosity. I know what bullies are and I will not bend to their will.
 
@VLAZ Yes this is true also :)
 
@CodyGray I answered because I wanted to share multiple insights and offer deeper explanations. Commenting wouldn't have sufficed in that case.
 
9:11 AM
@mickmackusa If I had 40K reps I wouldn't care either.
But I guess I will also have to look at myself and try to see what I did wrong to deserve the downvotes, there's a high probability of making mistakes as a beginner. :)
 
@JeanneDark as I have explained in comments from days ago, when that type of comment is deleted as NLN, the cost would be applied.
 
@user56700 "Being a beginner in Python programming myself" is maybe the reason why some of your answers are downvote-worthy. Or do you think that, since you are a beginner, your answers must be so great that a downvoter's only reason can be that they downvote "because they can"?
 
I will reiterate my feeling of having the hope zapped out of me when people who care about curating the site don't even understand the purpose of downvotes, have inappropriate feelings about them, and even respond harmfully to their existence.
 
@CodyGray thank you for clarifying how unhelpful no-comment votes are. I have no chance to know how to improve the post. An unworthy victim where my intent was solely to help others. See how contributors would be irritated by that?
 
@JeanneDark No, you are correct. But I try to test my code before answering and I do think (myself) that it would work, but then I feel like some might downvote because my way of solving it, is the wrong way.
 
9:15 AM
@mickmackusa How much more and extra work should people have to invest into curating the site? Are you aware of how much terrible content is posted on SO everyday? But now every non- answer should be graced with a nice comment explaining why they are downvoted?
 
All of this invariably goes back to arrogance. Instead of taking it under advisement that someone thought your answer was not sufficiently clear or helpful, and then trying to figure out how to improve it, you just decide that anyone who downvotes it must be either an idiot or behaving randomly because that allows you to continue to believe that your answer is great and wonderful, without that pesky cognitive dissonance effect.
@mickmackusa No, because you've exaggerated with words like "victim".
 
@CodyGray if a post is so bad that it merits a downvote, surely it is reasonable to clarify to the poster and future readers what us so bad.
 
Cody reputation has always had this problem it's pro and cons.. not until you stop caring (because you have enough anyway, or you don't care because actually only internet points) people will be up set with dv.. my self flagging NAA avoids dv since I know it may upset some user (it will be delete anyway) and want to avoid additional comments that then also need to be cleaned.
 
@mickmackusa No, it's not. Not in any way, shape, or form.
 
@user56700 golly, wouldn't the task of improving your contribution be easier if there was a clearer signal???
 
9:18 AM
Please read the tooltip on the downvote to understand why someone might downvote a post.
 
@mickmackusa yes, I would love to hear what my errors were or why it was downvoted, of course
In that way I could improve of my skills
 
If you believe that one or more downvotes have been cast on your post(s) maliciously, then raise a mod-flag. But be sure to have some good evidence for that. Note that "being an idiot" is not (of itself) abuse of the system. Mods see little more than other users, when it comes to downvotes, and even CMs and Devs will not be able (generally) to determine exactly why a downvote was cast, if there's no comment.
 
@CodyGray I am in favor of the feature of downvotes. I wish other platforms had them. It is only that they are uninformative/vague that is the problem.
 
@user56700 It seems to me that the last answer of yours that received a downvote, also received a helpful comment.
 
So then you are not in favor of the feature of downvotes. You are in favor of the feature of comments. The entire feature of downvotes is a friction-free way to indicate that you do not like a post.
 
9:21 AM
@JeanneDark I don't think that the clarity that I am asking for is monumental or overtaxing of curators.
 
But the whole subject of requiring comments on downvotes has been discussed (frequently, and at length) on Meta. And in here, by you. I think we're well past the point of the epiphany, "This ain't gonna change."
 
Let's all leave comment when we upvote "Great thanks!"
 
@CodyGray the tooltip is not anymore helpful because it is vague. If the post that I linked had anything about it that was bad, I would be more than happy to address it.
 
@JeanneDark True and for that I was happy. I even gave the person an upvote. :)
 
@mickmackusa That it's vague is the whole point. That's what a downvote means. I've seen exactly what you would do if you got feedback: you'd dispute (i.e., argue with) the feedback. It turns into an argument. The vote system is designed to avoid the arguments and just give the feedback.
 
9:26 AM
@mickmackusa maybe someone was upset because they taught you dv their answer.. who knows and who cares, if your answer is good overtime it will get upvotes.. trying to solve this by forcing to leave a comment would only increase the problem.
 
@mickmackusa Maybe it's not entirely clear to you what you are asking for. Fewer comments lead to an improvement, not more. What matters on SO are the questions and answers.
 
@PetterFriberg obviously, that isn't constructive or insightful either.
@CodyGray the downvotes are used for answer sorting. Good stuff sure bubble upward and bad stuff should sink downward. I see proof that the post ranking is inappropriate. If there is evidence otherwise, it should be clarified.
 
My god @mickmackusa can you pleas just write another feature request that downvotes should force you to comment on and get it closed? This horse is beaten to death over and over and over and over and over and over again...
 
a couple of dv or up means nothing.. you need to trust the overal internet to sort the answers (and even this does not really work)
 
@CodyGray I would either defend my prigramming decision or change my code depending on the circumstance. I have done both in the past.
 
9:30 AM
another blotch of red on the pavement where the dead horse was once flogged: meta.stackexchange.com/questions/66020/…
 
@PetterFriberg The "over time" strategy means that the scoring totals tell an inaccurate story until the future year when it is corrected. At worst, the post should have a zero score or have a legitimate reason for being negative.
 
@mickmackusa Being unhelpful to a single viewer (the downvoter) is a legitimate reason.
 
@cafce25 100%. I love to post on Meta and get downvoted to oblivion by people who LOVE the luxury of downvoting for any reason that they can imagine -- legitimate or not.
 
I don't judge answer on votes when I search for solution.. I know in my tag, the most viewed question, has as the most upvoted answer a wrong answer...
 
@mickmackusa Let's assume you are correct and the downvote you received was a revenge downvote. Don't you think that comments you leave caused it? So maybe commenting less is the solution? Btw., I've seen comments by you in the past.
 
9:35 AM
m2 even flagged some :D
 
@cafce25 It is unconstructive. There is no way to correct the post. With an informative comment, I might be able to explain and rectify their misunderstanding/implementation.
 
@mickmackusa There also need to be legitimate reasons for a positive score. Undeserved upvotes are at least as bad as undeserved downvotes. Even more so as people gain privileges through them.
 
@mickmackusa how can a 41k+ misunderstand downvotes so badly smh
 
@mickmackusa "There is no way to correct the post." That's simply wrong.
 
@PetterFriberg sounds like a horrible experience for readers.
 
9:38 AM
As a note: I've received a revenge downvote with a comment. The comment was exactly as unhelpful as I expect all mandatory comments on downvotes to be. It was a weak complaint about the answer being "too complex" or something along those lines. It tried to echo what I had written in a comment on an answer where the answer was downvoted.
 
@mickmackusa why? as a reader you need also to use your own brain..
 
@JeanneDark I disagree. They can be bad/misleading, but not nearly as damaging as no-comment downvotes. Contributors will not abandon a community because of no-comment upvotes. I regularly leave insightful comments on bad upvoted content to be helpful.
 
have you not seen that code only answer tends to move to top.. (the voting of the copy/paste public) and answer explaining the right way to do it and why (longer answer) are down...
aah even in latest news letter the html answer was like this...
 
@mickmackusa If someone receives undeserved (and unexplained) upvotes, for sure they won't abandon SO. But why is that good? Do we need people who write answers like "@randomuser Thanks for your answer! It helped me so much!!!!" and are rewarded for it?
 
this was in the news letter.. stackoverflow.com/questions/5411538/redirect-from-an-html-page typical SO.. I would suggest user to scroll down and understand better... but well...
 
9:44 AM
@mickmackusa this is going around in circles; please stop
 
@JeanneDark I have no way of knowing what to correct. There is no meaningful feedback. Until I am informed, I am left believing that it is the best contribution that I am capable of.
 
Thing is, if we required comments for downvotes, we would also need way for others to express their disagreement with that comment/downvote. So, we would need to have downvotes on comments. And those downvotes would require comments.
 
@mickmackusa Downvotes (and upvotes) are not feedback to the author, but to readers.
 
@JeanneDark don't say that now they're gonna circle back to "but it's bad feedback"
 
@VLAZ At least with that feedback you can consider trying to simplify. If it is as simple as it gets, then challenge them to show a simpler way.
@PetterFriberg in my experience, this is a problem with voters rewarding FGITW posters. Explained answers take longer than the uovote pixies have patience for.
 
9:49 AM
@mickmackusa It was a revenge downvote. Challenging them wouldn't end up anywhere. They'd likely just ignore any changes. Like they ignored the actual answer, TBH. And how they jumped to a revenge downvote after getting a comment and a downvote and deciding both came from the same source with no factual support for that conclusion.
 
@tripleee got off the train. Almost home. Don't worry.
@AdrianMole comment threads are eventually filtered down by NLN flags. Anything insightful should stay. Relevant insights can be edited into the post then those comments deleted.
@JeanneDark they are a vague signal to both.
 
Basically, curators should do nothing all day but write and flag comments.
 
I upvote comments a lot. But that's probably suspicious, in your book.
 
KGG
10:07 AM
Microsoft 365 went down for 30 minutes and the entire world acting like its the apocalypse
 
true
 
@KGG "Oh no, the emails!"
 
it was just over an hour here
 
KGG
Honestly its just so funny reading the attack messages on Microsoft, R.I.P employees that caused it xD
 
10:21 AM
What to do with this? (Found in LQA review.) Can/should it be edited? Flagged (rude? mod-flag?). Or just plain delete it and be done?
 
@tripleee There were a bunch of comments on that, which I've now deleted, complaining about how the person did not do enough research. I fail to see anything there that merits closing. It seems to be a straightforward case of "I have the following two tables, and I want to get the following third table as a result". As was noted incidentally in a now-deleted comment (because it otherwise contained inappropriate content), this is a fairly straightforward operation called pivoting, so I don't understand how/why that could be too broad to be answered in our Q&A format.
 
@AdrianMole "_id is not appearing due to the $group stage." ?
 
@JeanneDark Which is why I skipped it in review and asked in here. :)
... much of the rest of the post seems like drivel/fluff/useless.
 
@VLAZ furthermore, when someone offers a weak justification for downvoting or finding the post bad, then this allows: 1. Other users to neutralize the downvote with confidence and 2. Opens up the potential to educate the downvoter. Most of us in this room have seen downvotes with comments that say: you shouldn't answer questions that are very old. This is a great chance to tell them that they are incorrect and that necroposting with unique insights is welcome.
@JeanneDark of course, that is ridiculous. No one is suggesting that.
 
@AdrianMole I edited. If OP doesn't agree, they'll roll back, after which we can decide another course of action.
 
10:30 AM
@mickmackusa For sure, no one would ever abuse the right to neutralize someone else's downvote
 
Downvotes can only be 'neutralized' in blocks of 5.
I've previously thought about the concept of an "un-downvote" that could be cast from certain review queues. Like when voting to reopen a question that has been suitably edited; the chances of the original downvoters following and coming back to retract their downvote are small.
For a code-as-image question that has been properly edited, the chances that the downvote(s) was/were cast because of that are quite high. But I may not want to cast a full upvote, even though I'm voting to reopen.
 
@AdrianMole Just because a question can be re-opened doesn't mean it has become useful.
 
See my following comment.
 
I saw it. Doesn't change anything.
 
Hmm. Maybe we could have auto-notification when a post that we've downvoted gets edited. /facetiousness>
 
10:36 AM
So much thought goes into invalidating and eradicating other users' opinions, just because you disagree with them.
5
 
@AdrianMole I've started following every post I downvote for that reason.
 
It's quicker to eradicate the users rather than their opinions.
 
@StephenOstermiller Same. Well, at least posts that could be improved. For example, some questions are a lost cause because the only way to make them acceptable is to completely change them to something radically different to what they are. And I can't be bothered to respond to that, were it to ever happen.
@AdrianMole Did you know, that the original name of Skynet was "The Dedownvotinator"?
 
> Voting to close this question because birds aren't real.
^ ???
 
What?
 
10:46 AM
I saw that comment but the author didn't actually cast a CV.
 
Maybe it was an attempt at a joke?
 
@AdrianMole Is this meant as a joke, whose meaning eluded me, or was this a serious comment? If the latter, I'm 99.9% sure it's incorrect, with a 0.1% chance I misunderstood it.
 
Or (small chance) their CV expired.
 
10:47 AM
@CodyGray Yes, the chance that birds don't exist is around 0.1%
 
You know, chat has this great feature where you can see what message another message is replying to...
 
I live in a valley now, and today I wasn't expecting to see here, yet again, the hill not worth dying on.
 
@VLAZ No chance. Question was posted yesterday.
 
@CodyGray If you take away my bad jokes based on taking comments out of context, then what do I have to live for?
 
10:51 AM
@VLAZ Arguments in SOCVR?
 
As for the bird comment - yes, seems like a joke.
 
@VLAZ They didn't actually cast a close vote, so, yes, I'm guessing it was a poor attempt at a joke. (When originally posted, it contained the same "joke", but it didn't say anything about voting to close.) I've gone ahead and deleted it.
I vaguely remember some kind of meme about birds not existing.
 
@CodyGray It's a conspiracy theory that "pidgeons" are actually drones by the government spying on people.
Might also extend to other birds.
And yes, it did become a meme as it's one of the dumber conspiracy theories.
 
@CodyGray In terms of neutralizing reputation gains/losses, 1 upvote = 5 downvotes.
 
10:59 AM
@AdrianMole Oh, I see. Wow, yeah, I really just don't pay enough attention to reputation, do I? I would have never realized that connection.
 
With enough reputation, score becomes more important than reputation.
To anyone.
 
@VLAZ nytimes.com/2021/12/09/technology/… Geez. I call this "making the problem worse".
 
Seems I've reached the limit of my free articles.
 
@VLAZ I guess you have to peel back another layer of the onion? :-)
 
KGG
Okay so the right flag was details or clarity not debugging details, noted :D
 
11:06 AM
@CodyGray Not sure. I just disabled JS for the page and suddenly I could read the article. For free. I posit that there was a bug in their JS code that caused it to show me the message for no more free articles initially.
(that last sentence was a joke)
 
Definitely a joke. I mean, a bug in JS code? No way.
I might be biased, but personally I prefer Andreas Rejbrand's fluent task dialog interface: specials.rejbrand.se/dev/classes/TDMessageBox/TDMessageBox.h‌​tmlAndreas Rejbrand 2 hours ago
 
At least it's not UB.
 
But I wasn't aware it got really THAT bad. I was vaguely aware of the "surveillance birds" thing. I'm pretty sure when I first encountered it, it was pitched as "pigeons" not all birds. And most definitely not all pigeons.
 
@CodyGray Haha, that is a dubious lack of disclaimer of affiliation.
 
@CodyGray It says "I might be biased".
 
11:09 AM
It's certainly a level above "my answers are great and all downvotes are unwarranted". But still a bit dicey. Though commendable for the sense of humour.
 
@SurajRao interesting; since the holidays I've seen an increase of questions in either German (as here) or French. Before, it was usually the typical locale-mistakes (PT/ES/RU), with a smattering of Chinese.
 
yeah I noticed I hadnt seen german questions much.. I chalked it up to timezone
clearly not the case
 
Germany is barely a time zone away from Russia. Well, or more, depending on which part of Russia. It's two hours away from Moscow at times. We do get a lot more Russian content with no German content lagging 2 hours behind.
 
KGG
I think the devs can implement a feature to auto detect a question language, while they are being written if its in english or not and inform the user "This question doesn't seem to be in english, are you sure you want to continue?"
 
@KGG They can, yes. Might not be 100% correct but it will have more true positives than false ones.
They just haven't.
 
11:20 AM
@CodyGray lol, I certainly missed that Andreas posted that link. Still, he did wrote the "biased" part
 
@VLAZ the RU/PT/ES content is probably due to people living through an automatically translated browser and not knowing what a URL is. Apparently a lot of people just put "stack overflow" into their URL bar, rather than the actual URL. Then, es.so or SO itself show up roughly equal in the search results and in appearance.
 
Auto-detection of language is harder than one would naively think.
 
DharmanBot does it. I'm aware it's not necessarily easy but it's also not impossible.
 
I'd suggest that we could have a system that has at least 80% true positive rate on catching the most typical of foreign language posts we get on SO. It doesn't have to catch everything, just aid in detecting things.
 
11:32 AM
@VLAZ DharmanBot doesn't do it interactively (i.e. in real time, while the user is typing their content).
 
If only there was a way for a post to be checked after it was finished but before it is posted. Like, maybe if we had a "review" button which fired checks against the new post.
 
It's in the pipeline. It's called the Staging Ground.
 
I was referring to the button we already have.
And also to the wizard which also is supposed to be for reviewing a question before it is posted.
 
Which, I think, is broken by the SG.
 
Wizard or review button is broken?
 
11:35 AM
Review button. At least, that was the feedback I received from one question I reviewed in the SG beta. OP had left out a whole chunk of code. I asked for that; they gave it; then they asked, "But what happened to the Review your Post thingamajig?"
Maybe that will be fixed in the Beta-2™ version.
 
I don't keep up with the latest developments on "What's broken on the Ask page". Thanks for the catch-up.
 
The answer doesn't change much with time: "Pretty much everything!"
 
12:06 PM
@KGG In the future, that sort of thing can (and should) be flagged as "not an answer" (NAA).
@VLAZ That actually creates a very confusing UI, in my experience. I recently posted a thing to Meta (maybe you've seen it), and after clicking the button to submit (just kidding; it only looks like a button to submit), it reloaded the page in a way that looked identical. The trick was, I had to scroll all the way up to the top in order to see a message in the sidebar saying that it was ready to be submitted.
Since I already knew what this was, from reading about it, it didn't really throw me for a loop, just made me chuckle at the terribleness of the design. But if I didn't already know about it, I would have either been very confused or thought that the website just stuttered.
 
@CodyGray I don't disagree that SE's implementation is bad. It doesn't seem to do anything. I've never seen it say I had to do anything with my post. And a couple of times I've tried just mashing random keys on the keyboard to see what "review" would do. Still, we do have that facility. It may catch something, I don't know. Adrian says it was also recently broken to which I am only dubious on the "recently" part. Would be great if it was made to work better. Or, maybe even simply work.
Although, I know I'm just saying crazy stuff there. We have the Wizard! It solves so many problems. And we'll have SG. Which will also magically solve problems without introducing brand new ones. Well, that's what I get from SE talking about all of this.
 
What are your opinions on ?
 
12:22 PM
@Dharman It's a system that allows (or denies) logins.
 
But, more coherently: Not sure that it adds anything helpful or significant to the questions it is used on. One could conceivably create similar tags for any number of "systems".
 
Say.
 
1:07 PM
Again, I would ask: "Why is that misleading?"
 
because .android and .com are very different tlds and sd just doesn't know better I'd guess
 
The given link is developer.android.com
 
@AdrianMole Let's not be crazy. How can you possibly know the user didn't intend to be misleading and wished readers would think they go to a domain with an .android TLD but actually it cunningly sends them to the proper documentation page?
/s
 
OK. Let's just let Smokey be crazy, then. :-)
 
1:14 PM
I think the link text isn't very descriptive, and the person who edited it should have been clearer
 
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ links that go [<main documentation source](<specific topic>) are common. I agree they could be more descriptive. But I also won't really go out of my way to update them.
 
Is dropping the .com when quoting links a significant potential abuse vector?
 
@AdrianMole I would say yes. There are many, or at least to be many scam site that used a different TLD
 
Hmm. But if the link itself has the .com and just the caption text doesn't, then it's likely not a scam.
And some sites auto redirect from their .com versions to other, locale-specific ones; like .co.uk.
 
@AdrianMole Ah, that I wouldn't worry about
 
1:22 PM
I think the issue is that the preceived url and actual url are different and there just isn't a special case for partly matching urls
 
I think you're underestimating Smokey's sophistication. Such a "no match" clause could be added, I'm sure.
 
Well yea it could be added.
 
... just that I don't know how to do it. :) My sophistication is rarely underestimated.
 
@AdrianMole Just add another RegEx .....
 
Ugh! You said the "r" word.
 
1:29 PM
@AdrianMole No, for "more descriptive" I mean something like [<topic> on <main documentation source>](<link to topic>) It's not that the other is "misleading" but the link can be more informative.
 
I recall that someone, probably Oleg Valter, had created a userscript to nicely format duplicate link diffs in the post timeline
can't find it right now, if someone has a handy link that'd be great
 
@blackgreen Yes, it was Oleg. Here is the script
> It is a booming sector where you can make your carrier.
Like, of an infection?
A disease?
 
1:46 PM
@VLAZ thanks!
 
Is this question a duplicate? Judging by the speed of the answers, I perceive the task to be quite basic.
 
Not sure if there is a dupe for that but it could be considered opinion based as we don't have a solid definition for a batter way to write the code
 
@VLAZ You could make a career being a curry courier, carrying careering curries.
 
@AdrianMole Correct but currently I would carry on my course
 
2:37 PM
@KGG The v: count is the number of views
 
Is this answer suspiciously contentious and wordy for a new contributor? stackoverflow.com/a/75234116/2943403 What symptoms of ChatGPT are we sniffing for? Or is that a secret?
 
If something is showing a lesser number of views then it means you're looking at a different post. There's no way for a question to have its view count lowered. Even deletion doesn't affect that
 
@mickmackusa That looks suspiciously like a ChatGPT answer
 
@user56700 actually, I just checked the user's profile. They have been around for 2 years, but only posted one answer prior to this one. The other one is far less generous and uses poor grammar. I reckon the new one is AI generated.
 
@mickmackusa I just tried to copy/paste OP's question into ChatGPT and it almost generated the same output....
 
2:45 PM
Good on ya. Thanks. I have custom flagged for diamond attention.
 
@KarlKnechtel ugh, the css masonry layout question... dare I visit it again? I'm sure I'll find lots of posts to flag
 
3:08 PM
@mickmackusa It's still kind of amazing to me how easy it apparently is for AI to write grammatically correct English, despite how awful English is as a language.
oh, sorry, those don't qualify I guess. just instinct
(I thought of some searches, prompted by the recent Meta question, to sniff out questions in German)
 
@TylerH @KarlKnechtel Indeed--binning these as they have no recent activity aside from your edits
 
since these questions have answers, they won't be roomba'd as long as they're open, yes?
 
@KarlKnechtel Won't Roomba (the first one even has an accepted answer so never Roomba)
 
@KarlKnechtel agreed
 
3:26 PM
@KarlKnechtel But it's the formulaic way in which the AIs construct those sentences that allows detectors to detect them, using detective skills.
 
stackoverflow.com/a/75236018/4826457 is there anyway to cleanup this link other than to remove the :~: section?
 
@SurajRao I think we can just replace the link with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-width_space
 
@SurajRao Not in markdown, but you can do an html style link with text lookup <a href=""></a> if you really wanted to preserve that feature.
 
What's the goal of the URI fragment there?
If the author is wanting that phrase to be highlighted or something in the browser when the user loads the page, it won't do that
 
chrome highlights it
ff doesnt support highlighting
 
3:34 PM
Oh I see, that is a weird and excessive amount of content to highlight though
 
@HenryEcker anchor tag works thanks
 
And given that the content is literally the first part of the page being loaded, I don't think there's any point in trying to highlight it anyway
 
@SurajRao ugh... a bounty on a question that's showing an error message with an image needlessly....
not only that, but it's a bounty being placed on an older question by a random passerby with the message: "Please solve this error I am stuck in hackathon."
not that common to place a 100 rep bounty almost immediately after reaching 100 rep I suppose....
 
4:02 PM
0
Q: Do we need the [commercial-application] tag?

EJoshuaS - Stand with UkraineThe commercial-application tag has 32 questions, no usage guidance, and is mostly off-topic questions. The tag itself is ambiguous. Almost everything that professional developers work on are technically commercial applications. It's hard to say whether the tag is definitively on-topic or not beca...

 
4:18 PM
^ Is closing as a typo appropriate for such issues? I remember a discussion on Meta, vaguely, about someone who had all their semicolons replaced with Greek question marks (which look almost the same as semicolons).
 
4:43 PM
Chat is always so dull when the emoji spammers are away. It's just nice to have the colour back /s
3
 
🥦
If one thinks a given answer is of lower quality than another, why would they not downvote it?
 
🍌
ugh, so hard to find the emojis
Too lazy
 
4:59 PM
@KevinB I didn't know you had a green toilet. Oh, wait...
 
5:45 PM
I'm blind. Can someone tell me what the actual solution here was? PHP Account Activation Issues
I can't see what they changed or why
 
ugh... non parameterized queries
 
they are using the old extension which didn't support that, so that's not it
From one of the comments it seems like the problem wasn't with this code but with something completely unrelated
 
@Dharman Looks like a typo. The difference is at the veeeery end. You have to pass the connector as your second argument in the old mysql_query. That's why all the syntatic sugar mysqli functions pass it as an argument first
 
but that is an optional argument
I don't see what that would change
It has 5 upvotes! What's so good about this question.
 
@Dharman Maybe. Old school PHP was sometimes wonky there. In theory it would use any open connection. In practice, that wasn't always true
Hence why that whole system had to die. With fire
 
5:53 PM
@KGG Yes, that's from the URRS.
@tripleee \o/ Success!! I've released a UI that's as cryptic/undiscoverable as SE's prior efforts. Unfortunately, SE subsequently raised the bar on unusable U a lot higher, which I'd really have to put a lot of effort into matching.
@KGG To decode that: It's score -1, 0 upvotes, 1 downvote, 1 close vote, and 17 views.
 
6:05 PM
@Makyen Given that my sarcasm is being misunderstood in other places today (not by you @tripleee): The message this one is replying to is sarcasm mixed with a dose of "hmmm... maybe I could make that better", combined with heavy sarcasm covering my negative opinion of many of SE's UI changes in the last couple of years (lots of which is about the profile pages).
 
6:25 PM
@Makyen Just going to put it out there... Brits are #1 for sarcasm... everyone else has a very long way to go :p
 
@JonClements :)
It's good to see you. I hope things are going well! Anything interesting?
 
Can't complain... I guess... :p Might pop by for scooby snacks now and then :p
 
6:44 PM
 
@JonClements Oh, yes, I quite forgot: tosses some scooby snacks :)
 
woof woof!
 
:)
 
@JonClements Look, we know the leg thing is just a flesh wound :P
 
@Machavity lmao
 
7:25 PM
@mickmackusa Isn't this not even a duplicate? OP here is asking for the index, not the key.
In the target, the asker wants the key
 
Anyone have a dupe for stackoverflow.com/questions/75238701? It can't possibly be that hard to explain #if, and it can't realistically be that nobody has ever had to ask what #if is called
 
@KarlKnechtel The question's already closed, though?
Or are you just asking so you can point OP to a resource via a comment?
 
I didn't refresh, but mostly the latter
and also so that I can have it for the future
the question is poorly phrased, but it wouldn't be that hard to edit into shape, except for the part where come on, you guys must get the equivalent of these quite frequently
 
Gotcha. Unfortunately that may require someone who knows C++, which I do not :-)
 
(it's about the preprocessor, which is common with C)
 
7:47 PM
 
7:59 PM
@KarlKnechtel Late reply but you might be able to find something by searching conditional compilation.
 
you would not believe how many variants on that I tried already.
well, you probably would believe, but I wish for you to empathize. It really turns up a veritable sea of things that are Not That
 
@KarlKnechtel I do empathize, that's why I said you could do the searching ;)
 
just will the result into being
 
you mean write an answer?
 
exactly
The one thing that will fix being unable to find a good canonical is adding another good canonical
 
8:08 PM
true. If I don't find a dupe after about 5 minutes I just wind up answering if someone else already hasn't
 
Is this answer spam? (SD report)
 
seems likely, but haven't followed the link
 
@KevinB the link is some artical that was published the 20th
and the author is knowledgeassam
 
hes teh CEO
 
Got it. Thanks
 
8:20 PM
though, i use that term loosely
:shrug:
 
I went to the about page the names matched
 
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