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12:11 AM
Before I go bothering Meta about it, I wanted to get opinions about this question: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/72165827/

This is a somewhat common problem, where OP types code at the interpreter prompt, and some of it is treated as input rather than code. There is a reproducible problem, but it's to do with *where* the code is typed - there is no typo or other error in *what* is typed.

Does that still qualify as "not reproducible or caused by a typo"? I kinda would rather have a canonical duplicate, but I don't know how much it would help - someone with this problem won't know wha
I found meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/343659 already on meta, but I'm not sure (how/that) it applies here.
 
If it's a mistake that other users are likely to make, then it's a useful Q&A and doesn't need to be closed.
Finding a duplicate seems like a good plan. If one doesn't exist, then that could be turned into a canonical.
(Why does it have a C# tag?)
 
(When I click to edit the tags, the c# tag disappears from the list. I don't remember seeing it there before, either. Some site glitch, I guess.)
The problem with finding a duplicate is that every time this question is asked, it will be with a similarly unhelpful title and near-zero score. I'm sure many duplicates exist (in fact, I'm sure I've previously interacted with functionally-duplicate questions before), and equally sure I won't be able to find them.
it isn't so common that I can just pull stuff out of my browser history, though.
 
@KarlKnechtel Interesting! It's not there in the inline tag editor, but it is there in the tag editor in the full edit view.
 
12:33 AM
Can anyone see what was done during this latest revision? stackoverflow.com/posts/35585468/revisions
It looks like an edit was made and then reverted during the grace period just to bump the post
 
funny thing - the edit body attempted to load for me (could see the diff), then choked, and now it (by-design?) is displayed as empty
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I wonder if it might contain some difficult (possibly malicious, but the user seems well respected) Unicode data (such as a BIDI mark bomb).
 
@KarlKnechtel the revision when fetched from the API seems fine at a cursory glance
 
if you were able to fetch it, perhaps you can use another diff tool to figure out what was actually edited?
 
12:49 AM
@KarlKnechtel yup, I suppose so, a sec
 
are those dots the added text perhaps? or are they part of the UI
 
hmm, it is identical - the body and last_body fields are the same
@KarlKnechtel part of the UI, actually, the div is empty
the timeline for the revision is broken too
that does look like a removed revision, but...
 
user17242583
@TylerH Usually in that case no changes are shown, even in side-by-side markdown view, and the edit comment is [edit removed during grace period], but I agree that this is odd...
 
yeah, seemes a little odd
 
1:05 AM
(what is the goal of that kind of spam? Do they actually hope people will call the phone number? Why would their targets be looking at the question, in that case?)
 
The leading theory is that spam is actually part of the DDOS attack against the site.
The phone numbers don't actually work
 
@cigien Why did I get this message when I voted to delete this question? I don't think I've seen it before, and the phrasing suggests the system thinks I'm the author. The OP's profile is no longer around, so that may be related.
 
IT happens sometimes
it is a bug
 
user17242583
@cigien Strange. I didn't get that.
 
I have seen it rarely as well
 
1:10 AM
Ah, ok. Thanks. I was confused for a moment.
 
The system is fishing for reasons to block you from asking.
 
The second paragraph startled me for a moment. I went "whoah, I've deleted quite a few answered questions." :p Then I saw the "my question" in the first paragraph :)
 
@richardec I added what is supposedly the third delete vote, but it doesn't seem to have triggered a deletion. :/
 
@KarlKnechtel Higher-voted questions require more delete votes, up to a maximum of 10
It's 1 extra delete vote required for every 5 (or 10, can't remember) score on the question
 
looks like that user is serially self-vandalizing
oh, it's both of only two questions, so.
 
user17242583
1:19 AM
@KarlKnechtel mod flag
 
user17242583
@KarlKnechtel Yeah, that question needs 4 votes.
 
What's the correct close reason for "how do I <do something which makes no sense to attempt>?"?
 
IMO It would depend on the question. Some of those types of questions can be really helpful especially if they attract a high quality answer saying "You shouldn't do that do this instead and here is why"
 
@KarlKnechtel Unless they have a good reason, unclear and comment "why would you want to do this?"
 
@KarlKnechtel Thee rules for number of required votes to delete a post are listed here.
You can also hover over the delete button the tooltip lists the number of remaining votes needed.
 
2:14 AM
@StephenOstermiller Do you mean something like:
//Permit other user scripts to request that a cv-pls be posted for the next close vote.
//  If it is desired, they can send a custom event with the questionId for which they want
//  a cv-pls posted upon the next page $.ajax call which sends a close vote.
window.addEventListener('cvrg-requestPostRequestForNextVote', function(e) {
 
 
1 hour later…
3:42 AM
 
user17242583
4:08 AM
@TylerH Maybe that post deserves a historical lock? It's not a good question but it's been very helpful... 0.5 million views, 780-score...
 
user17242583
Is POB "purely opinion-based"?
 
4:19 AM
@richardec primarily
 
"Primarily opinion-based", not "primarily 'purely opinion-based'" :-)
@TylerH Disagree; that's not primarily opinion-based. Language features aren't added for no reason, as the answer well illustrates.
 
@CodyGray Well sure, if you change the question being asked... :-)
 
Well... I don't think that was actually changing the question that was asked, and certainly not the question that was answered. Honestly, I thought it was such a superficial change that it wouldn't even convince you to change your mind.
 
I'm not sure the "which would you use and why" was initially opinion based.
 
The only thing even remotely problematic about the original phrasing was "you". And... yeah, that just feels excessively nitpicky, even for a grammar snob aficionado like myself.
 
4:30 AM
@HenryEcker the question was "Python lets us use both. Which would you use" which is a primarily opinion-based question, at least to me.
I don't know Python, so I wouldn't have known to make the edit Cody made (let alone felt confident making it)
 
Good thing I'm such a Python wizard.
 
I agree that "what are the differences/advantages of X method of Y method in different scenarios" is a substantively different question
although personally I am not convinced that question isn't too broad...
 
@richardec Thanks, I've seen it getting that at least twice now. :-) Seriously, while I don't mind the ping, as I suppose the delayed nature of this response should suggest even more powerfully than my words, I am not good at seeing or getting around to pings (in fact, I have... 420 messages in my site inbox now), so this is not a good way to notify me of things that need action, and, even worse, I sometimes sleep (not today!), so raising a mod flag is the best thing to do in situations like that
@TylerH Do tell: you prefer to see more gibberish?
 
@CodyGray that seems like a non sequitur
 
Well, handling it with R/A flags helps to ensure that more of it doesn't get posted. But, yes, it was quite a stretch.
 
4:35 AM
I don't recall exactly why I downvoted the post (or even when) but probably it had to do with the very narrow definition of spam
if I had to guess
 
@jmoerdyk That is not something which even the most blanketed of blanket bans would have attempted to prohibit. (Although, as Ryan said, we did/are not implementing the blanket ban, due to substantial community disagreement. However, we will likely still message users who post hundreds+ comments asking users to accept answers in situations where they have a personal stake.)
@TylerH Ah, and it may surprise you that I also disagree with that extremely narrow definition of spam
 
perhaps a little
Like many on the internet, I strongly believe spam also includes the popular backronym, short pointless annoying messages
 
I have never heard that before
 
that is surprising
it was everywhere in the aughts
 
Yes, such messages were everywhere in the aughts. :-) But I never saw them referred to that way.
 
4:38 AM
I mean the backronym and its application were everywhere, of course
aside from the spam, which was also everywhere
as I recall though, the answer in context here said something like 'for api the contact to me I can knowing it' or something to that extent... which basically to me read like someone trying to say "contact me [at the email address in my other answer] for help with using an API for this". NAA for sure, and VLQ, too. Rude/Abusive? Eh... I find that to be a stretch, assuming this was the first time the user posted such an answer/answers.
but that's just me. As I said earlier, I wouldn't harp on anyone else for flagging that as R/A, but I wouldn't recommend they do it, either
 
Yeah, like I said, I didn't know the actual answer you were judging/referring to, as that had already been moved into the Graveyard.
 
If I were a mod I'd probably decline such a flag, frankly
 
Although I'm surprised you wouldn't consider that example message spam
 
The email one I would
the other one I wouldn't
the user posted them as separate answers, for some reason (well, probably the same reason they were posting an answer in the first place, rather than commenting -- they don't understand the SO system)
 
5:10 AM
Should these potential signposts have their close reason changed to Duplicate, or should these pages just be deleted because I found dozens of signposts anyhow? stackoverflow.com/q/17426187/2943403 and stackoverflow.com/q/19664584/2943403. Considering meta.stackoverflow.com/q/418239/2943403
 
6:23 AM
@mickmackusa they're both eligible for del-pls, perhaps that's a simpler solution
 
@mickmackusa I changed the close reason; I'll leave it to y'all to decide whether to also delete them.
 
6:56 AM
@RyanM The new closure puts a 2 day hold on any community deletion actions. (since neither have score <= -3)
 
What a lovely feature!
 
7:16 AM
@HenryEcker errrr...right. Whoops.
 
8:16 AM
@Makyen do you have an example of how that is used?
 
8:29 AM
@tink which flag should be used for Custom details? like the last
 
@SecretKeeper sorry, I don't follow - what do you mean?
 
8:52 AM
What should be the next technique/error to pool together? @Nick
 
@mickmackusa there must be a common find string in array/substring in string problem?
 
I'm going to be offline for a while, but if we can define a good narrow requirement to clean up, I'll start pooling pages
 
 
1 hour later…
10:11 AM
 
10:43 AM
 
11:31 AM
What do you think about this question: stackoverflow.com/q/72415126/5468463
 
general computing?
 
12:09 PM
@JeanneDark It looked like, but something was off there too? @CodyGray found. Thank you both :)
 
@cigien Once I had that message, too. I am unable to remember if the poster account was also deleted, but remember about "complaining" here
 
 
2 hours later…
 
 
1 hour later…
3:13 PM
 
@Vega Thanks for the tip, I found the message. No, the asker's account isn't deleted in that case. I can't seem to find a bug report for this on MSO/MSE either, so I might post one.
 
3:35 PM
@KarlKnechtel my opinion is details and clarity close reason if google or search don't give a vaguely usable duplicate.
 
user17242583
Why do I have a +1 Voting correct entry in my rep history today?
 
@richardec Did you serially downvote somebody's answers?
 
@KarlKnechtel Those questions are hard to curate (everything using input always is a noob question) because chances are the OP knows next to nothing. So best course of action is any close reason (if a dup can't be found) and offer a pinpoint explanation in the comments with a link to somewhere (in pedagogic terms it's the best you can do).
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole Not to my knowledge, and if so certainly not intentionally.
 
3:37 PM
Maybe that script you were running that was auto-downvoting posts reported to Natty?
The only -1 rep that I can think of that could be reversed is one of your own downvotes on an answer.
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole Maybe? The thing is, those posts I auto-voted on were soon after deleted because they were NAAs...
 
Maybe one wasn't? Maybe a VLQ that was later edited.
 
user17242583
Do mods have more information than I do about? Can a mod tell me?
 
... Staff may have been snooping in here or other rooms where that script was mentioned.
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole That's possible, but it would seem odd for mods to route that out...
 
3:40 PM
@KarlKnechtel I must have voted to close hundreds of such questions watching the PyCharm tag (input Qs show there daily), the conclusion I arrived at is the OP just needs a brief explanation in the comments and any close reason will do.
 
Mods can't reverse votes (I think). That needs higher beings.
 
user17242583
 
@AdrianMole Correct, mods can't reverse votes. We don't even have access to the votes page on your profile, so we have no clue what you've voted on.
 
Well, I suppose mods can indirectly reverse some votes ... by deleting the voter's account. ;)
 
@richardec You probably don't want to continue engaging any further in the rollback war. Just mod flag
 
3:44 PM
@AdrianMole true that.
@richardec mod flag and move on.
 
user17242583
@HenryEcker Okay, I was just about to ask. This guy is adamant.
 
user17242583
(Why does he have to use my name as his vandalism text!?)
 
@richardec A tribute?
 
user17242583
hah
 
Just move on, shall we. Let's not drag this on.
 
3:54 PM
@richardec You probably, quickly downvoted more than one answer by the same user which the system identified as serial voting. This can happen when someone writes lots of VLQ answers in a short span of time and you don't notice it's always the same user. I guess the downvote was therefore invalidated and you got your rep back, but the answer was still deleted because VLQ or worse.
 
user17242583
@JeanneDark Ah, that makes sense. In the last few days I DV'd a few answers by the same user on a few different occasions, so that's probably what happened. Anyway, not a significant number of votes were undone.
 
Why reflag? Was your flag invalidated?
 
user17242583
@JeanneDark That was the only option in the cv-pls dialog that contained "naa"...
 
user17242583
@JeanneDark I guess reflag is only for when it deserves to be flagged again but you've already casted a flag?
 
@richardec Because initial flag requests aren't permitted here. The only flag requests for VLQ or NAA that are permitted are if something happens to invalidate the flag. (Like someone editing a NAA out of LQA incorrectly, for example)
 
4:00 PM
@richardec question totally lacks focus (doesn't include a link to the package to begin with).
 
user17242583
@HenryEcker Ah okay, that makes sense.
 
user17242583
@richardec RO please bin
 
user17242583
actually
 
@richardec A reflag-pls request is only necessary when your previous flag was invalidated. This can happen when you flag as NAA and someone edits the post out of the LQP queue without actually improving the post
 
user17242583
4:02 PM
@JeanneDark yep, gotcha.
 
@richardec When you want an RO to bin your request, ping the last active one. In this case @rene
 
Thanks
 
user17242583
@JeanneDark Okay, I'll remember that.
 
To clarify, you should ping an active room owner. Pinging an inactive one isn't likely to have much of an effect. List of active and inactive ROs.
 
4:24 PM
 
@richardec We have both more and less information than you. I'm not going to discuss the "more" information part. The information we don't have is we don't see some of the events which you see in your reputation history. Some events, specifically those involving your own votes (i.e. question downvotes), are private to you only. I'm unsure if CMs see those, but moderators don't.
We do see some information which isn't shown to the public, but we also see information which is public information, but which isn't displayed to the public on that page, or for which bugs result in erroneous displays.
A non-logged in user sees a "reversal; +1; Voting corrected" entry for you today. Why they see that number, I'm not sure. I'd assume the number is the result of one of the various rep calculation bugs which exist in the "new" profile reputation pages (generally already reported months ago, but SE seems to not be interested in fixing them).
I suspect that the "+1" number may be some combination of downvote returns due to answers you've downvoted being deleted and the actual vote reversals which were made to your account today, but that's just an educated guess.
Moderators don't see line items for the the reputation changes from you downvoting answers or the return of that reputation from the posts being deleted. However, that such entries do exist, and in notable quantity, can be inferred from your actual reputation and the "fake-ish" reputation changes shown to the public on your reputation page (i.e. the numbers don't match, and the reasons they don't match are the things which SE doesn't show the public, and the various bugs).
OTOH, mods do see the public information that you had +8 rep today from "vote fraud reversal" at approximately 03:00UTC today, which was 8 separate +1 reversals. So, the public information is that 8 of your downvotes on answers were reversed. What can be inferred by the fact that it happened at approximately 03:00 UTC is that it was almost certainly: done by the auto-serial voting reversal script and that the reversed votes were made by you sometime in the 24 hours prior to 03:00UTC today.
 
user17242583
@Makyen Wow, thank you. That's very informative.
 
user17242583
You say "+8", but I only see +1, logged-in and not. ?
 
user17242583
Anyway, don't worry about it - I don't care very much.
 
@richardec Yes, as I said, there are bugs in the "new" profile reputation pages.
np
 
user17242583
4:39 PM
Mods have infinite close votes, right?
 
Unlimited would be a more precise term than infinite.
 
4:59 PM
@AdrianMole Rate limiting API + lifespan?
 
user17242583
@AdrianMole I was actually thinking of using that term, but... ;)
 
@richardec I've seen weirdness in profile rep associated with reversed answer downvoting... in both + and - directions based on timing that I haven't bothered to narrow down. My rep total seems sane and consistent.
 
not naming any users, but is a display name which consists of zalgo text mod-flaggable?
 
5:11 PM
thanks, I flagged with a mention of Jeanne's link
 
user17242583
 
This question prompted a LQA review. I'm leaning toward the Q&A being "OK" but think it could be opinion-based but benefit from a lock. Any other opinions from the peanut gallery?
 
@DanielWiddis FWIW, I don't think that answer is LQ. I got "Looks OK" in First Answers and "Recommed deletion" in Late Answers.
 
user17242583
@DanielWiddis Maybe the question needs a historical lock.
 
@AdrianMole Nor did I. Although I skipped rather than OK'd because of the 'opinion'-ness of the whole thing, although the top-voted answer's "the war is over" section seems an authoritative non-opinion answer.
 
5:25 PM
 
 
2 hours later…
7:28 PM
 
8:05 PM
@EJoshuaS-StandwithUkraine Unless you really want the response from SD, please add a - to the end of the type of feedback you're giving in order to suppress the default response from SD to each feedback.
 
9:12 PM
@richardec wow, that's a lot of upvotes
 
user17242583
@Dharman I thought the very same thing when I saw that 40-upvote answer.
 
user17242583
9:57 PM
@cigien Wow, I guess not many people are active in SOCVR on the weekends.
 
That's mostly true. In addition, this is Memorial Day weekend, which will likely result in a bigger dip in participation than average.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:04 PM
 
@richardec As far as I can tell, you had a series of downvotes (8) reversed. I have no idea why it's showing as +1 and not +8, possibly you hit the rep cap somewhere? The new reputation page is really unreadable, and the numbers do not remotely add up to anything reasonable much of the time.
 
^^ Ninja'd by Makyen on that one
 
11:19 PM
Drat, so I was.
I like how we both noted that the reputation page is awful.
 
user17242583
 
Yeah, I'm one of the upvoters on that answer.
 

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