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12:00 AM
@RyanM IIRC, for a while there was a bug where is was both refunded to the person who offered it and kept by the person to whom it was awarded.
That's since been fixed.
 
@RyanM Well, that one I flagged, which you recently handled still shows a bounty having been awarded, even though it's a deleted post.
 
I also recently deleted an answer with a bounty that definitely took the rep from away from the answer author poster. It doesn't appear to have been refunded to the asker who bountied the question.
(referring to the same one as Adrian here)
 
Concurrency is a weird thing in chat. :)
... presumably, the System now assumes that the bounty just expired?
I mean, if the (now deleted) answer had never been posted, then the bounty maker would still have lost their rep, is not?
 
@RyanM Would you mind chiming in on this Meta question as you rejected the edit?
Never mind, you just did
 
Yeah, you were too fast ^^;
I wanted to get the rejection in quickly before someone decided to do a rollback
And then started writing the reasoning after.
We can only override suggested edit reviews if the post hasn't been edited since.
 
12:11 AM
@RyanM All good, thanks! I just wasn't sure if you were aware of the Meta post, even though you saw the edit. Even though you can't override it, what would be wrong with a rollback? Aren't they intended for getting rid of harmful edits...?
 
Rollback prevents us from changing the actual review result, so the editor keeps the rep and thinks their edit was good.
 
@RyanM Oh ok, that makes sense
 
When possible, we like to reverse that. Otherwise, a rollback is fine.
 
????
 
privileges are per-room
You are welcome to request them here, if you'd like - if so, the ROs will confer and decide whether to add you
(I'm a little unclear on how the conferring bit goes, since no one has yet asked since I became an RO)
@RyanM a self-nitpick: this is mostly true. some rooms inherit privileged user lists from other rooms.
 
12:19 AM
@RyanM Oh, oops. As I don't have 1k rep on SO, I don't think I'm eligible here. IDK if that is 1k SE total rep, or on SO. I don't mind not having access here, it just surprised me a bit as I don't really run into that (I almost always monitor SD from Charcoal HQ, though)
 
user17242583
@cocomac It's really is annoying when you've SD permisions in one room and the same you can't interface with the same SD in a different room... :|
2
 
1:03 AM
FIRE, thankfully, doesn't care which room you're in. You can't leave comments and feedback at the same time, though, or try to watch something, even if you're a blacklist manager.
I just do all commands in CHQ. I don't think it's worth the trouble to become privileged here. I would just end up adding noise to the transcript :)
 
Yeah, I do have privileges here, and I virtually never use them.
 
1:39 AM
I have privileges everywhere, and I never use them :D
!//amiprivileged
See, I don't even remember the command :D
 
fwiw, I find sdc a lot easier to remember and type than !!/
 
!!/amiprivileged
 
@Braiam ✓ You are a privileged user.
@Braiam ✓ You are a privileged user.
 
I'm double privileged D:
 
user17242583
2:08 AM
@cigien Completely agree with that; I was contemplating the same this very morning
 
sdc amiprivledged
 
@cocomac No such command 'amiprivledged'.
 
!!/amiprivileged
 
@cocomac ╳ You are not a privileged user. Please see the privileges wiki page for information on what privileges are and what is expected of privileged users.
 
user17242583
2:23 AM
Plowing through the field of trash
 
3:17 AM
2
Q: Let's get to the [bottom] of this tag

cocomacSo... we have a bottom tag on SO. I propose we get rid of it. Criteria for burnination: Does it describe the contents of the questions to which it is applied? And is it unambiguous? No, certainly not. There are tons of possible uses for "bottom". I guess it means the bottom of something, but tha...

 
user17242583
4:22 AM
@Burnination-Feed No oneboxing.
 
@Nick can you explain this convoluted answer to me? stackoverflow.com/a/72052506/2943403 Did I misunderstand something or overlook a requirement? Is it a bad mcve?
 
@mickmackusa in what way?
 
@Nick see how I was able to produce the expected result from the sample input with no iterated function calls? Is this a bad mcve?
 
@mickmackusa I was just having fun. I didn't expect OP to accept...
 
okay... weird, but okay.
 
4:32 AM
@mickmackusa if OP accepts your answer, let me know and I'll delete it.
 
righto
 
I learned on Meta recently that I'm supposed to flag comments instructing users to accept answers. =P
 
4:55 AM
@richardec To clarify, because I was unaware of this... You received this message as a notification in your inbox (the same place you see comment notifications) when Ryan locked your post?
 
@SurajRao What is a magic file?
 
@richardec Yeah, none of the current Stack Overflow moderators are strongly opinionated people. :-)
 
OK, it's /etc/magic and used for determining file content.
 
4:58 AM
@SurajRao Seems like general computing to me
 
Sounds like Unix.SE question, not a programming one
 
If it is about unix/linux.. I got confused with the git tag...
 
@SurajRao ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ OP also seems confused
 
Resisting the urge to try and close the dup target as general computing. I guess it does talk about some programming type uses.
 
You are right, though - we seem to have a dupe in comments.
Ideally, the dupe would also be migrated but it's too old
 
5:01 AM
That question about "magic" files, and many others like it, are almost certainly off-topic for Stack Overflow, but, all things considered, I'd rather close questions as duplicates than off-topic.
 
are identical duplicates good signposts? like this one stackoverflow.com/questions/48582860/…
 
That's not identical. Identical would mean same exact content.
If you mean "same question", that's what a duplicate is.
 
ok, let me rephrase: "is this a good signpost?" :)
 
I would say definitely yes. It's about Swift, whereas the main question is about Objective-C. Without knowledge of both, how would you know that it is the same answer?
Fishy smells should be reported to moderators.
 
5:09 AM
Will do
 
(I didn't look at it at all, so actually provide justification, don't just say "Cody agreed y'all should look at this".)
 
Just flag and say "Cody said moderators are interested in fish"
 
With all the dogs and cats on the mod team, I think it's a safe bet there's a lot of interest in fish.
 
Also good source of Omega-3 for everybody.
 
@TylerH Not sure what the context was in this particular discussion, but since I was brought up as the justification, I'll explain... Gibberish can be flagged with the R/A flag, per the official policy (see, specifically, the first few paragraphs under the "What makes something rude or abusive and when should I flag it?" section). That's why I told @richardec that this was R/A-flaggable.
@richardec Even the original revision was spam, which is almost certainly why the mod validated the flag.
 
5:21 AM
@IanCampbell I think I was being paranoid after all. Can a RO please send this to /dev/null so no dog wastes its time?
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null upon request, to stave off paranoia
 
Many thanks
 
You're welcome, dawg
@IanCampbell I'm glad someone was paying attention ;-)
 
I was paying attention. Unfortunately, it didn't trigger me to change my behavior (in this case at least).
Something about -200 score?
 
So we needed to get more sockpuppets to upvote it in order to ensure compliance?
 
5:30 AM
I'd say if you go to that much trouble and risk the ensuing scandal if discovered, you'd deserve my acquiescence at that point.
codygray23845@gmail.com... codygray23846@gmail.com.... codygray23847@gmail.com... hmm never realized how popular a name Cody was.
 
It is very popular. All of my sockpuppets have that same name. What are the odds of such a coincidence?
 
5:52 AM
@Cristik I'm not going to claim that this one in particular is a good signpost, but there's no need to worry, the shelf life of regex questions is around 3 days anyway
 
6:08 AM
And of course the link is dead.
 
@Juraj Isn’t there some other more-appropriate SE site for that one? electronics.stackexchange.com maybe? It’s not a programming question, right?
or maybe more-specifically arduino.stackexchange.com
 
6:23 AM
Is the ESP8266 considered an Arduino? I don't think so.
 
6:42 AM
@TylerH just thought it might be benificial to add something like this (mildly worded) to the FAQ to make it more visible than a chat message from a moderator that is already buried under the flow of requests and discussions. IMO, making a when not out of votes is quite strange, although I do agree that it's not like there is an active problem. Not having any issues with not codifying it, of course, if you feel like it shouldn't, though, obviously.
 
7:10 AM
@sideshowbarker the questions is incomplete. code is missing. Arduino SE or EE SE will require it too so the question will be closed and it returns to SO
 
7:35 AM
@CodyGray Ask Ubuntu moderator andrew.46 told me in chat that he will accept this question which you closed 5 minutes ago if it is migrated from SO to Ask Ubuntu.
 
@karel He asked me that in the moderator chat; that's how I found the question. As I told him there, I cannot migrate it because it is more than 60 days old. Since it's still off-topic, I went ahead and closed it.
 
-1
Q: Do we need [effective-c++]?

Dalija PrasnikarThere is effective-c++ tag. Currently it has 80 questions. Its tag info states: Tag for implementing and understanding guidelines and recommendations in any of the books "Effective C++: 50 Specific Ways to Improve Your Programs and Designs", "More Effective C++: 35 New Ways to Improve Your Progr...

 
8:21 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I don't know about your answer but... An OP ranting about "noobs" who made 150 reviews in 5 years isn't exactly "a curator" in my book. I mean, it takes a minimum to join the club of folks who contributed, it takes nothing to post yet another "bash the noob" thread.
 
It's possible to have and uphold quality standards without having done a large number of reviews.
7
 
@bad_coder they seem to be an active editor, though, judging from their activity tab. In any case, I did not mean my answer as a therapy session for the OP but rather as a general statement :)
 
@bad_coder the reviews you see in the "Review" tab in their profile counts only "edit reviews", it doesn't count for votes and other actions that are made organically
 
@CodyGray Meh. But there aren't badges awarded for not reviewing. :)
 
8:35 AM
@AdrianMole Copy Editor :-)
 
8:54 AM
@blackgreen like, I guess I have a 1:100 ratio if half those posts hadn't been deleted.
@AdrianMole I also say: Meh... Lots of folks ranting and little else. (These days 500 edits doesn't impress me much anymore).
 
@bad_coder huh, why was I thinking that the tab included only edit reviews
 
I actually think there's a correlation that can be verified, the more folks curate the less they rant. I usually see the worst rants coming from users who don't actually do anything!!
 
@Burnination-Feed what else do we have? ?
 
@rene is that a for ? ;-)
 
8:59 AM
@RyanM sure, you push buttons, I monitor meta ...
teamwork
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine I'd support a rule where in order to post a "lets bash the noobs" thread a user needs to have 10 steward badges for each such post. Otherwise they're contributing nothing tangible and only add, well rants, more noise...
I have 14 steward badges so I'd get to post 1.4 such posts :)
 
How about we don't have "let's bash the noobs" threads?
3
 
@bad_coder honestly, I didn't exactly read the post as "bashing the noobs" but rather as "I reached the tipping point where I no longer want to contribute directly but rather curate", so I dropped the part about "criticise people for asking dumb questions". It's against the CoC anyway - and I am pretty tired of reiterating to users that asking a "dumb" question is not a close or deletion reason, and especially is not a reason for commenting... What I do agree is that all rants are noise :)
 
"You must have more rep than Jon Skeet to post unconstructive rants on Meta."
5
(I'd preface that with "New policy announcement:", but maybe it's too soon. ;-))
 
9:16 AM
@CodyGray Or at least be a robo reviewer
 
@CodyGray Hey, let's be reasonable: you must have at least as much rep as Jon Skeet to post unconstructive rants on Meta. I'd read an unconstructive rant from Jon Skeet.
 
@JeanneDark I think we even have a tag for those called
 
@RyanM Damn moderators are always overreaching with their policy proposals, amirite?
 
make the rep threshold 1 million, at least we get unconstructive rants from 3 users
 
 
1 hour later…
10:42 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine "I reached the tipping point where I no longer want to contribute directly but rather curate" I mean, if users participating -in said thread- had some serious stats of contributing moderation actions I might take them seriously, and even then with a grain of salt since "lets bash the noobs" is nothing but a rant, anyway.
I'll make an educated guess: we'll se less than 1 curation action/day from most of the participants (the usual in such threads).
Let us, at least, not be played for fools, into upvoting such pointless meta crap :D
 
10:58 AM
 
I do think that meta post strikes a nerve for many of us from time to time, though I also imagine the same ground has been covered several times before
 
11:13 AM
I also appreciate that support from the moderator team is evident, via Undo's answer
 
What would moderators know about curation, toxicity, and frustration, anyway?
 
@bad_coder hmm, I think the participants there all have quite significant curation stats, though. Undo does not need an introduction, Makoto either, Friedman regularly edits and reviews, so does Peter, Karl, Matt, and BSMP. Not sure who's unworthy then..? The educated guess seems to not match the reality, I regret to say. I do see the thread as rather pointless, but, well... many of Meta Q&As share such a trait if you ask me :) [hides in the corner]
 
11:44 AM
@bad_coder Where is this quotation from? I can't find it anywhere on that Meta question or its answers.
 
@CodyGray that one's from my reply above trying to outline what I read from the post
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine arhg, lets see: I have a good impression (nay very good!) of Karl, Matt, and if my memory isn't failing me about BSMP (the impression being they are fair, friendly and helpful). The others I don't know.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Oh, I see. The syntax of the message confused me.
@bad_coder You don't know Makoto or Undo?
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine but look not further: 2 steward badges - 10 years ago, 0 steward badges - all time
 
Yeah... a lot of people who do a lot of content curation don't bother with review queues. I'm not sure where you developed the impression that the /review path is the end-all, be-all of content curation on Stack Overflow, but it definitely isn't. I hardly ever used it before becoming a moderator because it's, quite frankly, terrible, especially back then.
4
 
11:49 AM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine My critique isn't at anyone in particular, but the "bash the noob" threads generally don't have any heavy duty curator participating (this one is actually better than most, usually if all participants have 0 steward badges between them I'm not surprised.)
 
I tend to trust the viewpoints of curators more if they haven't earned a bunch of badges for furiously clicking through reviews as fast as they can go.
 
@CodyGray does Makoto actually curate anything? In their profile it calls for an all-out-strike on curating.
 
Yes, there were some events that transpired some time ago that changed his level and form of participation.
I haven't monitored his recent activity to see to what extent he's been keeping his "promise", so to speak, but I would say he's earned the right to have an opinion given his level of engagement prior to deciding to stop.
2
 
@CodyGray so, not really someone who's curated a lot?!
 
You think things have changed so much over the past couple of years that his experience using the site has become stale and irrelevant?
 
11:53 AM
@CodyGray I don't have to think anything, he speaks for himself.
 
I find this to be worthy of respect.
I, also, prefer evaluating the content of what people say, rather than the person who says it.
Although I will admit to having a lot of respect for Makoto based on his contributions over the years, which I've observed first-hand, and I will say without shame that that does, to some extent, give me a tendency to trust his point of view. (Though certainly not blindly or without the possibility of critique; we've disagreed on multiple occasions.)
2
 
Hah, the daily sign that I'm up far past my bedtime. :-)
 
@CodyGray Cody, you've never told us exactly to what extends you would go to win an argument?
@CodyGray I consider the review queues are in pretty good shape after the last overhaul. Very functional atm.
 
Um, I guess it depends on what incentive I get out of winning the argument. If it's arguing for argument's sake or some kind of competition or something, I would probably go much further than if the purpose of the argument was figuring out which position was "right" (i.e., made the most sense in light of the circumstances and available facts).
Since this isn't an arguing competition or debate forum, but rather a place where we're all trying to do our best to make the site the best, I would stop at being right.
 
12:05 PM
@bad_coder you don't know one of the key people for Charcoal, Undo?
 
they too have been rather quiet since Monicagate
 
many became rather quite since Monica debacle, yeah. IIRC, Art moved to Codidact?
 
Undo's still alive and well. Mods tend to do most of their kicking and screaming complaining behind semi-closed doors.
 
@bad_coder frankly, I do not find steward badges to be very informative about the user's curation levels. There are also edits, flags, and votes (closures, reopens, and deletions, as well as downvotes) that are just (if not more) helpful as reviews. What I am also not sure about is whether anyone should be shamed as "not a curator" unless they spend a huge amount of time on the site - to me, anyone periodically reviewing, editing, or voting is a curator - everyone contributes as much as they can.
9
@bad_coder that I probably can't properly respond to without further research. Honestly, I didn't get a feeling there are that many "bash the noob" rants over on MSO for the time I've been active on Meta. There are, however, weekly posts on "let's bash curators" :)
 
12:20 PM
Multiple times a day, I see posts about on Stack Overflow. Why can't everyone just get along?!
 
, @CodyGray, it's always about them. Or
 
12:47 PM
@CodyGray We also have lots of here
 
@SurajRao Looks like the worse solution they provide is the same as in this answer, but custom flag may be in order
 
@JeanneDark from the text they are saying that code is inconvenient and thanking this answer...
atleast thats what it looks like to me
 
@SurajRao Yes, that inconvient code is also taken from another answer to that question
 
ah so emojis are back in fashion
 
1:10 PM
They are asking for a VBA script to automate reading .csv as utf-8 and convert it to .xlsx
I don't know VBA but I assume it counts as programming.
 
I'd say custom flag to explain it's a "Thank you" answer and also link to that other answer (with the inconvient code) to show it contains nothing new
NAA flag may get declined because the "inconvient code" may look like an alternative solution.
 
Yeah mod flagged
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine ""criticise people for asking dumb questions". It's against the CoC anyway" " Where? I can criticize the asker if it didn't do due research and as result asked a dumb question.
 
I think we both know I did not refer to constructive criticism that is neutrally and professionally worded, @Braiam.
 
1:31 PM
@OlegValteriswithUkraine except, that any criticism, no matter how carefully worded will feel like put down.
 
@Braiam there are ways to word something that is a breach of CoC and there are ways to do exactly the opposite. Feelings have nothing to with it.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine Isn't the whole point of the CoC that feelings are the utmost important thing? I'm sure that many people complained about that when it was introduced and implemented.
 
Criticism without a "put down" is the art of being constructive in criticism. Not attacking the person, but saying how the content can be improved.
 
1:48 PM
@StephenOstermiller People can't differentiate their opinions from themselves. When you find fault on the content you are finding faults on them. There's no way around it, as we humans identify ourselves with what we think.
 
@Braiam I get thanked for constructive criticism far more than I get angry responses. Maybe people are just masking their true feelings?
 
@VadimKotov if you find yourself coming across spam frequently, we should probably arrange to enable you to report them directly to Smoke Detector
 
@tripleee does smoke detector find spam on network sites too?
 
@StephenOstermiller Yes, but doesn't report them in this room
If you visit the charcoal room or Tavern on the Meta you will see network-wide reports shared there
 
2:41 PM
 
@StephenOstermiller Well, for some reason many people stopped commenting at all. Maybe you were lucky.
 
People are a lot less hostile about criticism when you haven't downvoted their post
 
@KevinB ... yet
 
user17242583
3:45 PM
@CodyGray The burnination proposal is getting a bit of heat...maybe you should intervene.
 
meh
 
user17242583
Weird - that Q has a lot of self-deleted answers by Shog.
 
user17242583
That only tag on that question is !
 
user17242583
I love deleting these questions, but sadly, I only have 8 del votes a day, so that's my last for today. In case anyone's interested, I'm using this search to find these questions: is:q closed:yes best score:.10 answers:10
 
4:24 PM
but the historical significance
 
@tripleee how to open a file with VBA is a programming question
@TylerH @tripleee you may re-request for another reason if you feel one applies
 
user17242583
sorry, there was just one more from my filter
 
@CodyGray I should not be surprised to open that link and find I have downvoted it at some point in the past :-)
@OlegValteriswithUkraine indeed; I often tell this to people IRL when they talk about running with me and say "oh but I'm not really a runner, like you"; I tell them "have you ever gone for a run? If yes then you are a runner. You need not make a professional career of it to call yourself one
The occasional curator is still a curator
I think steward badges are useful as a metric / data point, certainly (moreso if someone has more than one in a single queue), but I agree there are lots of other useful curation metrics that are just as important if not more (which is why I agree with many of the ideas for revising the moderator candidate score to include things like reviews, edits, flags, etc)
 
user17242583
It seem like lot of people here have plenty of delete votes to spare - would it be fine for me to submit del-pls requests though I can't vote myself?
 
4:42 PM
@richardec I do that all the time ;)
 
user17242583
@JeanneDark Ok...yeah I forgot about that!
 
@richardec yes that's fine, just remember that it shouldn't be a habit, but just for posts that truly need it
It goes for everyone of course but just as a reminder, SOCVR is not anyone's personal deletion (or closure) service :-)
 
🚽
 
Unless you're Kevin B, then we flush everything he shares here down a toilet...
 
user17242583
@TylerH So it's fine to continue posting del-pls for these ancient recommendation/opinion questions?
 
user17242583
4:48 PM
They often contain completely non-anwers, such as this one: stackoverflow.com/a/1335574/17242583
 
user17242583
@miken32 Looks like this one was just a "service is down"-type temporary error, so probably not too valueable to keep around.
 
@TylerH yeah - what I definitely agree with is sharing a passion / interest is what makes one a "curator", "runner", and heck, even "programmer". It does not have to be the sole goal in life or a full time job for someone to be worthy of being called one. It's great if someone has the time and the passion to do a lot, but agreed that it should not exclude even occasional participants. Can't agree more - an occasional curator is still one.
 
@richardec agreed; timeline shows no votes in months so it was almost certainly a temporary situation.
 
5:58 PM
Could this be considered programming related? stackoverflow.com/q/69310833/5468463
 
6:09 PM
There was a recent guidance change about not commenting to users to accept answers. Would comments telling them to accept instead of editing "Solved" fall under that guidance?
 
@richardec sure
@jmoerdyk that probably falls under the blanket ban the moderators wanted to start enforcing but I thought they rolled back their plan to enforce after basically all of Meta took up arms against the solution
@Vega no, server fault question
 
Ok, thank you!
 
6:31 PM
@RyanM ah, that sure is a bummer
 
7:13 PM
 
user17242583
7:44 PM
@jmoerdyk I wouldn't think so...the users obviously don't know about the acceptance feature in those cases, and it's not for your own benefit in the least...
 
@jmoerdyk I'd say linking to stackoverflow.com/help/someone-answers or some meta question about editing [solved] is fine there
under the blanket ban, probably not, but we're not doing that. I'd say likely that would be permitted under whatever we end up doing in the long run, but my crystal ball is less than perfect
Either way we're not going to be penalizing people for good-faith stuff in the past with no warnings, because that would be unfair
especially in cases where a question you haven't answered - there was wider agreement that it's less problematic without conflict of interest
 
I'm honestly interested to see how the community would (will?) take your personal proposal. Did they only upvote it because it was a more palatable alternative to the proposal or did they actually like it?
 
Me too. I was honestly surprised it got as good a reception as it did.
It was also pretty strict, but it tried to focus on what I felt was the main case where these comments have a very compelling user-education purpose.
 
I'll be looking forward to all the rules lawyering on Meta
 
It was also based on having seen the conversations with some of the better contributors who'd been penalized for this - these were the comments they'd been leaving, at least after the initial warning.
The main thing no one wants are the people who treat Stack Overflow as a ticketing system with follow-ups when people don't accept an answer.
There's a certain large company that has a bunch of contractors answering questions who like to do that sort of thing.
 
7:59 PM
Yes, it takes a lot of restraint not to set off the vote targeting scripts when one runs across that behavior. =P
 
user17242583
Can this be deleted? It's locked, but it's so out of date. stackoverflow.com/questions/34570/…
 
In my opinion, that has no business being historically locked. You could custom flag to see if you can find a sympathetic mod.
 
That was locked by former staff maybe?
@IanCampbell No flags on historically locked posts
 
@HenryEcker ...wait, seriously?
that's silly.
 
Yes
 
8:02 PM
OK, so flag another post by the question author and direct the moderator to the correct post.
 
Anyway, yeah, that's super outdated. Top answer is a 404 link.
Deleted it.
@IanCampbell (or one of your own posts, or...really any post, we can click links :-p)
 
user17242583
@RyanM Thank you! Lovely.
 
I try not to flag my own posts. I know Cody is always looking for an excuse to "misclick" the destroy user button.
(And yes, I know you can't do that for high rep users, it's a joke)
 
so a historical lock with its but has historical significance is actually worth nothing? @RyanM
 
Fortunately, you can get a user's rep down to 1 by suspending them first :-)
 
8:03 PM
@RyanM This is the MSE post which outlines the reasoning
 
I'm glad we've got such robust mod tools.
 
@HenryEcker ah...yeah, that's fair.
@Vickel Personally, I'm evaluating whether it does have historical significance, and especially with the link rot, I just can't agree that it still does. The historical lock there was applied in 2011, and at that point, it may have still had significant utility. But at this point, the links have rotted and the world has moved on enough that it no longer has that utility.
I am, of course, as with any action I take, open to feedback about why I might be wrong.
 
@RyanM nonsense, that's no way to behave
 
user17242583
@Vickel Are you refering to the Python question?
 
you're a moderator now, you just kick folks out of the room and move along :-)
 
8:09 PM
@RyanM what does the [solved] shortcut expand to in text? I don' see it on the comment shorthand list at stackoverflow.com/editing-help#comment-formatting
 
@jmoerdyk it's not a shortcut, "[solved]" is just what many people edit into their titles or questions when they get an answer
 
@TylerH its IMO a quite complicated question when to decide, if a has historical significance has ended or not, I mean do we then need to define historical with month/years, decades passed?
 
(including the brackets)
 
I think being willing to respond to questions about your moderation activities is very noble. But I don't see how you can do it at the scale you've been moderating. I mean, you've handled 10k flags in a month?
 
@Vickel "has historical significance" does not have an end/expiration date
@IanCampbell The trick is to get 99.99% or more of your actions right ;-) That way you have fewer things to respond to
 
8:10 PM
so why did it end today for stackoverflow.com/questions/34570/…
 
Even when you're right people still complain.
 
I'm not arguing if this is useful or not, it is about the historical lock
 
@Vickel You'd have to ask Ryan M that, since they are the one that deleted that question.
Note that moderators have the ability to delete locked posts (and unilaterally so)
 
oh sorry, pinged you by mistake
 
8:12 PM
No worries :-) Some months ago, for what it's worth, people asked about what 'historical significance' means here in SOCVR, and it was at that time that it was explained that once a post is 'historically' significant, that it is so in perpetuity, since history typically does not change.
 
user17242583
@Vickel Do you see any value in that post, full of 404s? I wouldn't advocate to delete every historically-locked question, e.g., this one
 
that was my arguing
 
In my opinion, this question was rightly deleted. It's had 87k views, and now when people view it, they are actively getting incorrect advice, because it can't be edited to be in line with current practice.
 
@HenryEcker I propose an automatic 1 year ban on anyone who edits "[solved]" into a question title...
 
And that is why lists of books are totally inappropriate for the Q&A format.
Put them in the Tag Wiki if you have to. At least people can edit that.
 
8:14 PM
@Vickel while I agree that a post locked for historical significance doesn't ever lose that historical significance, I think sometimes they can reach a point where, despite said significance, they are not worth keeping around anymore.
Especially given that the point is to preserve useful/interesting content, in a situation where all the content is dead links, there's not much being preserved
 
Right, and you can't even edit in the fix for the links.
 
(NB - I have not examined the answers in depth on that question to see exactly how many are, in fact, dead... just taking others above at their word when they say all the links are dead)
 
@IanCampbell Well, at least 99% don't actually give me feedback. If any significant percentage did, it could be a problem.
 
@IanCampbell there is always a wayback machine, for historical searches
 
Haha, I will admit to being in the same boat as TylerH, I took Ryan at his word that at least one was dead.
 
8:17 PM
diveintopython.net/toc/index.html is dead, linked from several answers. Others link an old version of an O'Reilly book - live link, but new copies not being sold, though a current version exists if you click enough links.
 
@IanCampbell what a game of telephone we have begun playing, eh? :-D
 
I mean, I have to trust that Ryan isn't going to take the email address and IP address out of my profile and email my boss that I'm goofing off in this chat room.
So, I can probably trust him to check a link.
 
@IanCampbell good news: no moderator has ever accessed this from your profile. Of course, you're trusting that I have accurately reported the history... :-)
 
Really? I'm shocked Dharman hasn't checked if that long suspicion they've had about me being a sock puppet isn't true.
 
Congratulations on not being suspicious enough for any moderator to ever investigate you for sockpuppetry :-p
 
8:21 PM
i only have one extra acct
 
My wife has an account. For the longest time she wouldn't tell me the user name because she was embarrassed the questions were so bad.
(I haven't actually read them, that way I can't get in trouble for having an opinion)
 
I have one sockpuppet account. It has an absolutely terrible history of interactions with moderators, on account of me using it as a test subject for various mod tools :-p
(the moderators in question are all me)
 
Dear Ryan's Sock, We really want you to have a good experience here.
 
@IanCampbell That's so much nicer than the actual message :-)
 
Haha
 
8:34 PM
@IanCampbell smart man
 
@Vickel To respond, I agree with Tyler here - the historical significance is outweighed by the fact that the question would need some serious cleanup to remain useful as a historical artifact (much as a museum maintains their collection) - in particular, it would need the links fixed, which no non-moderator can do with a lock on. I judged that the effort required to do so was greater than the value of the question.
I also think it was a pretty borderline case for a lock in the first place, and that perhaps our understanding of what would retain historical significance has advanced somewhat since 2011.
It would also have been a different story if the link to Dive Into Python had remained online, which there was no way to predict back then.
 
@RyanM I agree that the Q lost a lot due to the dead links, and I'm not crying for not seeing it anymore until I've got my 10k. I was primarily interested in how we deal with historical locks and what it takes to end the lock and its historical significance
 
@Vickel ahhh. That's something that would be great to flesh out, but right now, it's really just a judgement call from a moderator, potentially informed by community opinion.
Ideally a moderator engaging in the sort of thinking that I described
 
8:53 PM
I don't think my feedback on the answer worked ^
 
Well, it's not really answering the primary question, and the part he answered is a dup.
 
It's certainly an improvement on what was there originally.
 
I'll give you that.
 
user17242583
Is there a way to speed up or bump SOCVR requests? Not blaming anyone, but sometimes it seems like the requests get lost when new conversations come in.
 
9:05 PM
😬
 
@richardec No
 
@richardec See FAQ 16
 
remember they are *-pls, not *-or-i-stab-you; users are in no obligation to act on or even view your requests.
 
There are scripts (like URRS) that make it easier to see the requests still in need of evaluation. It's also pretty easy to find them in the transcript. People definitely do do both of these things. Overall, it's not a major issue. This room is the escalation destination, though; there's not going to be a place or way to escalate escalated things. (Aside from, perhaps, mod flags.)
 
Regarding your recent requests, keep in mind that delete-pls requests for highly-voted content will take longer than normal to fulfill anyway because more than 3 users are often needed to delete vote the content, on top of the fact that only 10k+ rep users can even act on it, vs the 3k rep needed for cv-pls or reopen-pls requests, or 2k for review-pls
 
user17242583
9:07 PM
@TylerH Of course...I was thinking that users couldn't see them in the waves of messages. But I see in the link Ian sent that most users run URRS anyway, so I just need to be patient :)
 
URRS is no magic bullet. People have to actually click those search buttons. Which I don't. =P
 
Magic bullets don't kill questions, people do.
 
I guess I set myself up for that one.
 
The current state of US political discourse set you up for that one. When you find where to file the complaint, please let me know.
 
Don't worry, I got the current event angle.
Well, I can track down the email address for your senator, but I don't think it'd help much.
 
9:18 PM
Yeah, don't forget what state I currently live in.
 
florida?
 
It doesn't really matter what state you live in, your elected leaders don't seem particularly likely to change their position one way or the other, no matter what their constituents think.
 
9:42 PM
 
10:15 PM
Does anybody have a canned comment for a solution edited into a question?
 
"rollback"
You don't need to post it as a comment, it's already an option.
 
"I rolled your last edit back because..."
 
and a flag if the user rolls back the rollback
 
> I rolled back your last edit because the answer doesn't belong in the question. Here on Stack Overflow, [we maintain a strict separation between questions and answers](https://stackoverflow.com/tour). If you've found the solution to your own problem, that's great! You are encouraged to [answer your question](https://stackoverflow.com/help/self-answer).
 
10:19 PM
Disclaimer: I didn't get that out of a can. I typed it.
 
pretty good
:)
 
knew that ARC is just a botched anagram for Cody :)
 
They might as well look/sound good, if I'm going to have to re-visit and delete them some day...
 
lol, a moderator's work is never done.
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine It's one of the many reasons why moderators need to be "reigned in" and "indicted". They've become sentient userscripts!
 
10:22 PM
My specialty: making a moderator create more work for themselves.
 
You don't have the exclusive on that. It's a proper system feature now. We call it "Meta".
 
@CodyGray ya'll are just Borg - can't do anything without userscripts (assimilation also seems to apply :))
 
We don't even have our own Collective!
 
@OlegValteriswithUkraine also explains why moderators write in the first-person plural.
 
@RyanM also explains why resistance is futile, but that does not seem to stop anyone from attempting :)
 
10:35 PM
@CodyGray I made some minor edits to make it usable on network sites, added an instruction to the end, and put it in my canned comment file
 
I mean, there is sort of a collective. You've got Teams, and the diamond menu is sort of like the new "Bulletins"... You know, informational content that you have no interest in reading.
 
@StephenOstermiller You omitted a comma.
 
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