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12:01 AM
@Scratte well, it's not a fight. Don't see why you want to turn it into one. But apparently some random user throwing around provocations is enough to end a conversation (I wonder what would happen next if we continued)...Well, there actually aren't any rules against having a simple conversation (if you're not a regular neither am I, but we're known and appreciated in this room, that's what matters.)
 
Can you tell me why it's important to you to have the conversation in here? Why can we not have it somewhere else? I mean we don't even need to have it on the Stack network. It could be on IRC or Discord or whatever else.
 
12:22 AM
@Scratte it's important to me having this conversation here for 6 reasons: 1º The regulars (some folks in here are top-notch, on a human level). 2-6 the RO's, if it ever comes down to it I trust they'll make the right decision - and some have garnered a lot of my respect.
 
But.. I'm not really a regular. And come to think of it, the last time foreign languages were discussed here, messages were sent to the null room.
 
@TylerH It seems to be on-topic at Superuser. Regarding whether it's on-topic here, I don't think so. There doesn't seem to be anything unique to software development about finding the license number of a software product. There are probably several reasons to care about a license.
 
@Scratte and if memory serves me, that incident coincided with you ceasing to participate in this room. If I read things correctly, a direct causality there. But, IMO the most important feat of this room has been to liberally sanction intelligent discussion.
@Scratte in any case, what happened during that incident is a lot more complex than may seem. In fact, foreign languages weren't discussed, just spoken.
 
12:45 AM
@TylerH Oh, never mind. I just realized it was brought up on Meta.
 
@bad_coder Yes, I think you're right that it had a bearing on my activity here. Some may not be fond of that, but I'm sure others are.
 
@Scratte in fact, it would have been a non-issue had the push-back not been so extreme. What is worth rexaminig, is the push-back itself. For a lot of us such language based incident is bizarre and confusing (it was for me).
@Scratte Especially, because like you, I'm European. So some of the reasoning that was thrown at us that day, was completely unprecedented, unheard of....
 
@bad_coder Or maybe the most important part is to decide "Is it worth it?", "Is this worth the time spent on it?"
 
@Scratte I pinged you today, not to address nor answer that. My purpose is much simpler. I want to add 2 more bits of context (and that's it). 2 scientific pieces of context.
 
Right now I'm trying to figure out how to shrink my active volume (disk partitioning). While it may not be very important to most people, trying to do it will give me the pleasure of either finding out how to or knowing that I can't. It's going to be a success of some sort. I like the feeling of having some success, at least some times.
 
12:53 AM
@Scratte A brief "sum up" of what the push-back really was. (It's psycho-sociological) analyses - by the all-powerful APA (American Psychological Association) - read the brief section "Social and Ethnic Identity" in this article
 
@bad_coder Perhaps for you and for Chinese students at Duke's. But not unheard of at Stack. I'm not really bothered by the policy as such. I keep seeing things here that bother me, and every little bit just make me less willing to spend my time on other things than "I wonder if I can shrink my system drive."
I think it's just directing my passion to something I feel is useful.
@bad_coder Of course that will have a bad impact on people. Everyone learns at different rates, some people never really learn something so well, they feel it can be used as a proper tool. But it doesn't change anything. It's like all other things that one can feel is unfair, but is just there.. in the real world.
 
@Scratte well, you argument today "the real world" (that's an old and beat logic) does not dispense the real analyses of how wrong gets done in the world. And that is especially interesting when it's done by our neighbors and acquaintances, and in this case it involved you.
 
@bad_coder What I'm trying to say is that someone will always find a way to oppress others in which ever way is legal at the time. That document is a very good example of that.
Who it involves and if I know them is irrelevant. I don't care less for people I do not know.
 
@Scratte not all as it seems. I have one more for you (contemporary) that gives some context that especially the Europeans will find astonishing "Society for Linguistic Anthropology" - 2nd article Anti Latinu/Anti Spanish Attacks and Anthro-Political Linguistics
 
@bad_coder I have 58 documents that I must read. I am a slow reader.
What you have given me here is going to take me at least 2-3 hours. And that's when I need to make a decision "Is this going to make me happy?", "Is it a good way to spend my time?"
I am already aware that the world is not fair. People in power will abuse people that are not. They will use whatever means looks OK. I cannot change it. I can't even reopen a closed post on Stack Overflow, even if it's a tool primarily used by programmers and it's about a setting in that tool.
@Scratte Just a count of the links to other documents make me see that it will take me a week to get through it all.
 
1:13 AM
@Scratte What that a 10 minutes read (MAX). You haven't read all the other stuff already? I mean...
 
@bad_coder Heh.. maybe for you. Not for me. And no, I haven't read the other one already. This one came before I was done with the other. I'm 15% into the other.
 
1:25 AM
@Scratte ok, read the texts without opening the references. As if you were reading a brief news article. (I pinpointed what applies, it's all there.)
 
@bad_coder Maybe tomorrow. It's 3:29 in the morning, and I'm no closer to shrinking my volume :)
@bad_coder Also note: Some of the sentences are constructed in a way that is not everyday English. Meaning I'll have to read them over several times to understand what they mean. Also, there are words in there I do not understand, so I'll have to find out what they mean. While that seems to be straight forward, some times it's not. Some times a word need to be understood by seeing in in different contexts.
Just reading the title makes my head spin. I do not know "Ethnographer" and I do not know "tenure". Two words out of 7 in a sentence forces me to look them up.
 
1:46 AM
@Scratte You don't know what Ethnography is :O ? Well then it's certainly a good thing we talked today. Ethongraphy - is a branch of anthropology and the systematic study of individual cultures.
 
@bad_coder Pictures of women in scarfs?
I think this went off-track. You're giving me more "homework" to do.
 
@Scratte that's not a scarf... and ethnography is a study of the difference between cultures to put in simple terms.
 
"Ethnography explores cultural phenomena from the point of view of the subject of the study.", "As a form of inquiry, ethnography relies heavily on participant observation—on the researcher participating in the setting or with the people being studied,.."
So.. it's not Ethnography unless the researcher participates?.. and how can one even know if they get it right? "from the point of view of the subject"?
I'm sorry. But this entire subject is a study on it's own. I don't feel that I have time to go into it.
 
@Scratte let me grasp this: you've never heard of ethnography? never visited a museum? never read books about historical culture? never visited a foreign country and were amazed by their habits and customs? And partook in cultural festivals abroad? Never saw "the natives" in their "natural habitat" doing "their thing"?! :O
 
2:02 AM
Ethnography is just the research of a different culture. Nothing more to it really.
 
Is this question on-topic?
 
@bad_coder I never heard of this. I understand the word culture. I very rarely go to museums. I don't take a lot of interest in history, as I doesn't make me happy to know what kinds of abuse happened before the kinds that are happening now. I've been to other countries. Tried the food. I've never been very interested in a particular "culture", as a lot of really horrible stuff gets swept under "Culture". As in "It's our culture to marry girls at the age of 6".
@10Rep I thought that was anthropology.
 
@Scratte the vision you express about culture is entirely negative (the light you paint it is just wrong). You'd have to ask folks what they think about their own culture, the positives, and why they love it. What they learned from other cultures, where they get it right.
 
@bad_coder I am more interested in looking at a squirrel in it's natural habitat. It doesn't seem to create silly rules for it's own existence. Nor complete illogical ceremonies for which if it doesn't do them right, it will be punished.
 
2:19 AM
Read this [journal](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/pdfplus/10.14318/hau7.1.005) to see the difference. To quote, "_Ethnography aims to describe life as it is lived and experienced, by a people, somewhere,
sometime. _". Anthropology is to study with people, and not to make studies of them. (quoted from article).
 
@10Rep Ooops..
 
@Scratte that's a double false argument, "create silly rules for it's own existence" first culture is not a set of rules (much less is it silly). "Nor complete illogical ceremonies" culture isn't just ceremonies (it's much more than that), and many of those rituals are full of logic. Finally who said anything about being punished? If it weren't good folks wouldn't choose it.
 
@10Rep That's not what this says
But.. is it really important?
@bad_coder You're wrong. If it didn't serve someone, if wouldn't be done. There's a difference.
I read about the culture of the natives of Greenland many years ago. What I remember most is how the rights of women were taken away from them with rules and "reasons" for why those rules were in place. I see that same thing everywhere in the world. The rituals they had to perform were founded in those "reasons" and a whole of of superstition had emerged from it.
 
Am I talking to the @Scratte I thought I knew, or was your account taken over by someone else? So you're saying there's no point to culture and it's entirely negative (that's pretty presumptuous)?
@Scratte in what century was that?
@Scratte you're making "a blanket argument" against all culture? Without one single specific circumstance?
 
@bad_coder Don't remember.. a long time ago though. Are you going to tell me the entire world has moved on from such silly things? Because I recently saw a program about how some children are deemed evil by superstition in some areas and are killed for this.
 
2:28 AM
@Scratte well, some specifics then. (How about the contrary, find something cultural that's good instead of issuing blanket condemnations.)
 
Though that wasn't in Greenland, that was in Africa somewhere.
The thing about culture is that it's the ways and customs of a people. Any people. It can be the culture of a company. Such should be subject to change when the reasons are no longer valid. It just often happens very slowly and sometimes not at all.
 
@Scratte "somewhere" isn't a place. I don't know if you've been to Africa or have family there, but I have. And those "blanket condemnations" are a form of bigotry against often subtle extremely hard to describe realities.
 
@bad_coder I do not remember the specific area. I did not say it was the entire continent. It could have been anywhere, where there's people, no? Some small town in Denmark. Does it matter?
 
@Scratte well that just doesn't qualify nor justify a "blanket condemnation" of culture. In fact, the logic you're reproducing is often at the root of other forms of bigotry (passing judgement on folks that live in completely different realities.)
 
2:33 AM
It's still culture.. it's their culture, no?
 
@Scratte alphabetical order, first article on the list is Angola. How many Angolans do you know personally? Because I know upward of a thousand personally...
 
@bad_coder That does not make any sense. If abuse happens in an area of Copenhagen, I can say that I know at least 100 people in Copenhagen, and so what?
 
@Scratte Angolan culture as I know it has nothing to do with superstition. In fact (the sources are 3 articles in English speaking media) Angola is a country struggling with numerous issues, and just emerging from a 27 year long civil war.
@Scratte neither can you say that a number of specific crimes are representative of a culture. My Angolan friends are really friendly dear persons. The one's I'm closest with are highly educated and strive to make a difference, which does not mean -by any means- they don't have their own culture and that it's not beautiful.
 
@bad_coder You asked me how long ago that culture of Greenland was present. Then I explained that it doesn't matter, because it's not like the entire world has moved on to sensible ways. Then I gave an example, and you're taking issue with my example.
The conversation started with issue about forcing a one language only policy, which is just another "silly ways". If it it approved, it will become part of the culture.
 
@Scratte You're European right? In terms of "high culture" we've had numerous examples of repressing language, Catalan, Basque, Occitan, etc...I think we've moved well past that on this continent.
 
2:52 AM
@bad_coder You'd think. But no, we absolutely haven't. Foreigners moving to Denmark are on occasion being told to "speak proper Danish". Which for the most of them is absolutely impossible. They will never be able to pronounce Danish like a Dane. It's just the way of bullies. It mostly happens to people that are not caucasian.
 
@Scratte yes I've heard, it was all over the news recently about Denmark ending the visa's of a certain national group.
 
@bad_coder Funny. I didn't hear about that.. but I'm not surprised.
I think it's very dangerous to think that any people is past being silly or hateful.
 
@Scratte well, just know that your example was dangerously wrong. You'd be surprised, I recently read a long anthropological article of praise for the animist African religions written by a catholic pope. Which addressed the positive aspects of their culture instead of giving a necessarily negative or distorted view of superstition. (Something like that...)
 
@bad_coder I guess it all depends on perspective. And who you are in the mix.
 
@Nick how are we going to close this one? What are the three equals in php? It is certainly unclear but also likely to become a typo question. stackoverflow.com/q/66876783/2943403
 
3:08 AM
@bad_coder You can choose to say that if it's not very common, then all is well. I don't.
 
@mickmackusa no real idea. I didn't have the energy to try and understand their code...
 
@Nick [same]
 
@Scratte you picked 1 example, that of superstition. But superstition has its own analyses, you'll find superstition in the "lucky charm", in gambling, in the newspaper, in individual beliefs, in history, you'll find as many superstitious rituals and incantations in the modern world as you'd find in primitive societies.
@Scratte In fact, up until the early 20th century superstition was commonplace see animal magnetism and was popular even in academic circles. What faded superstition out of fashion was the massified access to the education system.
@Scratte so you see, superstition is an inverse function of social acceptance more than anything. And it does not necessarily correlate to culture.
 
3:39 AM
@KarlKnechtel done
 
3:51 AM
@Scratte I was in a conference with António Guterres last year. Your discourse today was of disillusion, resignation, and almost of indifference - there's no place and no time for that dear Scratte, and it's definitely not you. ;) It was good speaking with you again.
 
4:24 AM
Is this NAA? I can't really see an answer there.
 
5:06 AM
the closures are by people who do not have C badges (well, of course)
 
@AnttiHaapala if it's opinion-based, why should it be reopened?
 
because it is not opinion-based.
@tripleee the text says "Update the question so it can be answered with facts and citations. This will help others answer the question."
well, it can be, but I cannot do that if it is closed.
 
oh, I was just confused by your reopen-pls formatting; I would expect the rationale for reopening to be used when you request reopening, not the reason it was closed before
 
ah :D
 
@AnttiHaapala The edit button seems to work for me, or at least it gives me the edit form; you have more rep than me, so it should work for you.
 
5:11 AM
@AnttiHaapala That question does seem to be opinion based. How seriously warnings should be treated is an opinion after all. Also, it's not important, but I'm not sure what the lack of C gold badges has to do for a question closed as POB.
 
Although I don't really know what sort of edit you have in mind; I can't think of a way to make the question into something objective.
 
@cigien so it seems you do not know C then :P
in C things that are always compiler errors in other languages are signalled as "warnings"
due to unfortunate history
that is why we always tell newbie askers: "did you read the compiler warnings? Your code emits 700, it doesn't work", and they answer with "but it compiled".
then we tell them to use -Werror so that it doesn't compile any more.
 
I don't think an apples-to-apples comparison is really possible there in general. But if the compiler will accept the input and generate an executable, that is not a compile-time error in any ordinary sense. Warnings are useful for detecting logical errors, yes; but impressing the importance of that upon beginners is out of scope. A question like that one belongs on a proper discussion forum.
 
@AnttiHaapala I'm not sure if I want to claim that I know C ;) But I do know a little bit, and it still seems opinion based to me. Yes, there are warnings emitted that other languages might make a hard error, but there are plenty of false positives as well. I'm not sure what kind of answer you're imagining for that. Do you plan on listing all the -Wno* exceptions for warnings that are safe to ignore?
 
@cigien well not quite, but some general guidance about switches. Also a mention about trying to suppress the warning in a wrong way (casts where they shouldn't be used, because of portability from Linux GCC to MinGW GCC to Darwin Clang etc on the same 64-bit Intel processor won't work)
... citing facts from the standard + other questions...
 
5:25 AM
The question might be fine if it were only about that specific warning. All warnings in all C compilers is surely too broad to be answered without general opinion-based advice.
(you could, of course, edit it to focus it on that - I think that'd be fine since it's generally in line with their intent)
 
ok it is opened, I'll try my best
 
 
2 hours later…
 
@bad_coder ok, I will leave mustaches out there :)
 
SO is offline...
 
mck
should be back now
 
Time for coffee then
 
Would have had to be a very quick coffee...
 
8:06 AM
@rene Is there time not for coffee?
Time for another coffee, I guess
 
Coffee!
sdc coffee for the house
 
@rene brews a cup of Americano for @for
 
mck
@VLAZ sorry but your coffee break is over ;)
 
8:32 AM
sdc I am a espresso lover.
 
@EsTeAa No such command 'i'.
 
@SmokeDetector I know, because you can make classic and americano
 
9:24 AM
Looks like all of the Facebook tags now have an unknown icon image attached. (Reported to meta)
 
again?
 
Yups :)
As far as i can tell its just Facebook related tags this time.
 
I don't know how often the ads team "experiments" with their tools on production
 
I dont know they are supposed to have rules about which tags can have icons purchased, and verified.
 
10:02 AM
I just love screenshot of monitor code examples.
 
10:35 AM
@DaImTo How is this not focused? It asks for a very specific thing. Remember that lack of effort is not a close reason... This question can actually be quite useful (if it's not a duplicate)
 
@Tomerikoo To me it seams broad. What they are asking is a huge can of worms, and could result in a lot of different answers. The answer they got already is just a bunch of links. If they edit the question as i asked them to we can reopen it.
 
 
1 hour later…
11:41 AM
@NathanOliver is late with his morning ...
 
Morning hasn't arrived yet.
 
11:58 AM
Morning
 
Thank the gods. And a good morning to you.
 
^^ not spam itself but definitely looks like spam bait
 
@Nick You mean the SD report, don't you? I remember accounts with that or a similar name posting "test" questions.
 
@JeanneDark yes, was trying to indicate that with the two ^s
 
12:04 PM
Just asking because of the request in between
 
... and I have the same recollection
 
2:56 PM
 
this question need to be closed?
 
3:11 PM
@EsTeAa I would just leave it..
 
@EsTeAa Is that programming related?
 
bot development... seems like programming...
 
@PetterFriberg I don't know enough about it i bow to your opinion.
 
Zalgo, is that you?
 
And that's why we don't parse HTML with regex
2
 
3:24 PM
@PetterFriberg @DaImTo but it needs details or clarity or needs debugging details?
 
3:42 PM
@EsTeAa not really it's a "How can I do.." question, it's not asking to debug existing code. As for clarity, it's seems pretty clear, maybe too broad I can't really judge... seeing the answer it seems not too broad... "The answer fits well in answer box"...
 
I guess I shouldn't be, but I'm still surprised when I see an NAA receive an upvote.
 
4:40 PM
@bad_coder The votes got reversed
 
4:56 PM
If the author deletes their NAA and the LQ review's thereby invalidated and then undelete it, does it enter the queue again? (My NAA flag is waiting for review again).
 
@JeanneDark No. That's why we allow [reflag-pls]
 
"Stack Overflow is currently offline for maintenance"
@Machavity Thanks. Now all my outstanding flags have been handled. I was asking because in this case my formerly helpful flag had been waiting for review again.
It just feels strange when the flag is waiting for review again but the post will not enter the review queue again.
 
5:14 PM
Is this on-topic? It's about installing software. Meta seems divided about this.
 
No code, so.... ;)
 
I'd personally say it's on-topic. It's about software tools used by developers. Not "how do I install Discord", for example.
 
More specifically, it's about how to install a library for Python
 
Ok, that makes sense, it's on-topic then. Thanks all.
 
@cigien confusion makes a human perfect? I like to be confused ;)
 
5:35 PM
@Dharman thanks for the "heads up". The result was interesting, out of +20 votes only +12 were reversed. The user also earned a mortarboard badge that was not revoked. But I suppose the serial voters got a nice "voting irregularities" suspension to serve as a warning.
 
Nah
they don't suspend for that
 
@Dharman :O that's a surprise (only for sock puppet voting then...) In any case, I checked the mortarboard awarded list and apparently this tends to happen several times a week. I wonder how many Mortarboard badges are out there that should have gotten revoked...
 
You can't revoke that. I assume a lot of these badges are earned this way. I think this is how I earned mine
 
@EsTeAa "The horse raced past the barn fell."
 
@Dharman I know the badge award system is an automated script. But I've read about at least one case where a badge was manually revoked. Seems like a system exploit to not revoke the badge upon vote reversal. Thanks for telling me, interesting!
 
5:43 PM
nobody cares about badges :D they don't affect the quality of the site
it's too much work to revoke badges
 
@Dharman If you want to hear a joke, I've seen the "too much work", "sorting is hard", etc.. excuses so many times around this site to justify system exploits/bugs that I wonder if I was the only guy getting shouted down in university whenever I didn't ace everything.
@Dharman seems like the sort of excuse one would be taught not to give in programming 101.
 
@bad_coder Depends on where your university was. Some education systems are way less focused on "aceing" stuff.
 
@VLAZ tell me about it...
 
6:21 PM
 
thanks @Machavity
 
np
 
If the comments under a post are moved to chat, but there are more comments added later, can the new comments be moved to chat again?
 
IIRC no, but maybe things have changed since I've learned this.
 
So you need a C-- expert?
 
6:29 PM
NM, already closed... meh
 
So you have a null pointer exception now? :P
 
6:49 PM
Such a well behaved bot it should be deleted. Should i send a delete thing to the channel or just delete myself? and wait.
 
mck
@DaImTo you can just flag as spam
 
7:10 PM
PANIC
 
syncing disks
 
still a reason to panic
there is never a good time not to panic
 
um, during open heart surgery would be a bad time.
 
not if you time it right
 
^ hmm both as the surgeon and as the person being operated on. Double no good panic time.
 
7:13 PM
Hmmmm... well... yeah there are some times when panicking wouldn't be a good idea, or at least not the most effective course of action.
 
if you hyperventilate at the same rhythm as the blade, it all evens out
 
@gunr2171 panic between the beats? Make it a new game, beat-saver ;)
 
more like, Panic at the Doctor
 
@gunr2171 Plot twist, it's the Disco Doctor
 
7:16 PM
this concludes this week's episode of "BS Science". Catch us next time when we discuss the merits of solar energy collection using mirrors pointing at your unsuspecting neighbor's house.
 
That sounds like a pretty bright idea now that I reflect on it
2
 
I award you one (1) high five
 
Thats an ion engine. They totally exist! Apparently we live in the future!
 
Set phasers to fun \o/
 
7:27 PM
what's the bad word segfault or binary?
 
7:45 PM
 
10:10 PM
How would you compel a user to remove their highly upvoted answer which they acknowledge is provably incorrect? stackoverflow.com/a/35619532/2943403
 
10:29 PM
@mickmackusa You can't and nagging them about it could be considered rude and a reason for suspension. Leave it alone. If you want to inform readers about a pitfall, then leave a single comment. Otherwise downvote and move on. The fact that it is highly upvoted means that people found it useful despite the question asking for something else. The answer doesn't contain outdated or dangerous information so there's no reason to worry about it. The accurate answer has more upvotes anyway.
 
10:50 PM
@Dharman Okay, but I find it "rude" (to Stack Overflow) to leave an incorrect answer on a page. My last comment to the poster does say something new -- it explains that I have commented a link to another page which has a related scope.
 
That is just how Stack Overflow operates.
 
@mickmackusa Is the answerer correct that an edit invalidated his answer? (I'm not very familiar with PHP).
 
No, they misread the question
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica The requirement to retain separators has existed from the original posting of the question -- that requirement never changed. They has extended the requirements themselves.
 
10:54 PM
Thanks, as I said I'm not very familiar with PHP
 
If moving the answer to stackoverflow.com/q/6936402/2943403 was possible, I'd be very happy with that -- that would put correct content where it belongs without anyone needing to delete anything. (though, the 30 upvotes would skew the results on the page migrated to)
 
11:05 PM
@mickmackusa Just downvote it.
 
@Braiam already done. I tried to appeal to the OP before using such a useless technique on a highly upvoted post.
To quote @triplee's starred quote in this room: "if we don't repair what we find is broken, it acts as a signal to others that we don't care"
 
@Braiam If you are suggesting that I edit the answer -- that is not an option because then I would just be editing the answer to become a duplicate of another answer.
Furthermore, editing an incorrect answer with high upvotes to become correct is also unfair to other answers as their future rep gain will be stymied due to the page order of the newly-correct answer.
 
11:35 PM
@mickmackusa Again, as you can see, the subpar answer doesn't exist and the superior answer does. The author removed their subpar answer after we made loud and clear that that answer was not up to the standards of the site ;)
 
@Braiam I reckon that is going to take more community support than me "nagging" the poster by myself. Feel free to upvote comments that you agree with under the answer.
 
@mickmackusa Or downvote the answer ;)
It's a wrong answer anyways.
 
@Braiam Of course, but I cannot say such things in this place. SOCVR is not a voting ring.
 
Well... don't know if you have noticed, but we are a voting ring, and a flagging ring ;)
 

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