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12:20 AM
This stackoverflow.com/questions/30778219 is general computing, right?
 
@cigien Technically, it's something that breaks the contract between the user agent and the user that it will warn it in case someone tries to share the screen.
I don't see why it should be here however.
 
Yeah, it doesn't seem like a programming question to me, at least.
 
12:50 AM
@cigien While I agree this isn't clear, it doesn't appear to be general computing to me. It appears that the user is creating a Chrome extension and the dialog is one which is displayed when using some of the Chrome extension APIs to share the screen. They are wondering if there is a way to prevent showing that dialog when using those APIs. The question does not, however, do a sufficient job of explaining that that's what's happening and what they want.
 
@Makyen Ah, I see. It didn't really look like a programming question to me, but I wasn't sure. Thanks for the clarification.
 
1:37 AM
 
2:12 AM
Isn't this "General hardware" question (from above SD report)?
 
I don't think so - it seems to be asking how the web developer would suppress that alert
 
2:37 AM
@RyanM Thanks. Reading the comments under the answer makes me think it is not programming related
 
 
1 hour later…
4:10 AM
If you knew your answer was incorrect/misleading, would you defend the post by saying 1. that the answer was old or 2. that the answer is for a framework that no one should use? stackoverflow.com/questions/14606040/… Would you waste time writing a comment when someone blew their whistle or would you just edit your answer?
 
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
7:38 AM
 
8:19 AM
so, "don't you have research in Pakistan" in a comment is R/A, or simply U/U? stackoverflow.com/questions/69549841/…
^^ correction, "don't you have websearch in Pakistan"
 
That's borderline between the two, IMHO. I went U/U. It's more condescending than an open attack, although the fact that they felt the need to mention the country is really toeing the line. IIRC either flag is counted against the account for autoflagging to mods, so U/U is probably the "safer" option.
 
@RyanM thanks, I tend to agree
 
(also now gone)
 
@RyanM & @Zoe Good luck with your nominations!, taking this last chance to ping you since after election the room does not allow me anymore :)
 
@PetterFriberg Why that?
 
8:26 AM
@PetterFriberg Haha... only for things that could be handled with a flag. Please do not send custom congratulation flags unless you want to provide practice with the decline function ;-)
 
rene and his darn rulezz :D (see FAQ point 18)
 
I guess you could, like, add it to the end of an otherwise valid flag...
But seriously: thanks!
 
yw, I think I can handle a couple of declined flags, so your idea is great!
 
@RyanM Flag declined because not handled by one of the new mods ;)
^ unregistered user (can't delete their own posts)
 
hey everyone. sorry, I'm new here but I just want to help. I read the room description but wanted to confirm, anyone (like me) can send/report a question/answer here?
 
8:41 AM
@juanfontes hi and welcome. As long as you stick to the rules, yes
 
got it, thank you! :)
 
@juanfontes Hi! Unless you are involved (Rule #15), and not too many requests (Rule #12).
 
I certainly hope @RyanM wins. I've already raised all of my "congratulations" flags for him to handle!
I'll look awful silly otherwise.
Can't have me looking silly!
 
@CodyGray there must be some natural law that prohibits this, I'm sure :D
 
@JeanneDark that's good to know! since the stack sites have different rules, I'll have a look into it, thank you.
 
8:44 AM
I think so, too, but I can't rely on it. The risk is too great.
 
@CodyGray Right now you look very spooky and not at all silly.
 
@juanfontes You did gather from the FAQ that the purpose of this room is to help clean-up the site by closing inappropriate/off-topic questions, right? So, those are the types of things you would post here: questions that you come across that you would like others to review for expedited closure.
@RyanM Excellent!
There's nothing silly about a nearsighted Jack o'Lantern.
 
@CodyGray You are definitely the least silly looking jack o'lantern!
 
9:06 AM
@CodyGray Talking about looking silly ... one of your posts last night in the election room seems to have resurrected a trend.
 
Mmmm, I only posted about it after seeing the answer, though, so I cannot be blamed.
 
Nothing is scarier than gaining even more nearsightedness.
 
Oh. Did I miss part of that earlier conversation? Or were you time travelling? (Answer I linked was posted only 2 hours ago.)
 
@AdrianMole Weirdly, this seems better than screenshots of code. I'd still prefer the actual code as text, though.
 
As it happens, the code isn't bad at all.
 
9:12 AM
@VLAZ It's really not better. It's even less accessible, because it's harder to OCR.
 
@AdrianMole Oh, I think you must have been referring to a different post. I talked a lot. I was thinking of this one.
@RyanM The obligatory lens flare doesn't cause any issues with OCR in your experience?
 
Yeah - you were uncharacteristically forthcoming with your chat comments. ;-P
 
@AdrianMole Thank your lucky stars!
 
@CodyGray I see you are operating with a very ...generous... definition of "screenshot" here.
Although now I'm tempted to add lens flare to my actual screenshots.
 
I'm a very generous person, as everyone knows.
 
9:14 AM
@RyanM I don't mean "more readable", just better in terms of the user putting more genuine effort into it. They wrote down the code outside a computer. And it's mostly readable, too. Way better than my handwriting. On the other hand, it's still a picture of code. I just think that somebody who wrote the code in a text editor and took a screenshot is way more lazy.
 
Oh, fair. I guess that's more effort. Both are likely less effort than just typing it in the first place and copy-pasting the text, but... At least they're well-scanned. Whatever imaging equipment was used was used well.
 
I'm not sure it's better when what you put more effort into is actually worse than the lazier approach.
 
@JeanneDark Let's be clear: being better than very lazy is a very low bar. Not necessarily meaning it's "good".
 
I don't think it's actually more effort. Sounds like he wrote the code a long time ago, then just photographed it out of a journal or something.
But it does go to show how much more elegant code tends to be when you write it by hand, instead of in an editor.
@JeanneDark Are you kidding? It is an art form!
 
@CodyGray I'm also impressed that they used two different colours for code. Likely a pen and pencil from the looks of it but still.
 
9:22 AM
You should see my college notes. Minimum 2 colors, usually 4 or 5 different colors.
I was so cool.
 
Did you have one of those ball-point pens with lots of different ink colours/cartridges/sticks in it?
 
No, I'm way too much of a pen snob for that low-quality mess of a writing instrument. They were all separate pens, usually gel pens, carried around in a nice carrying case, with super-fine points for neat, clean lines.
 
I agree, separate pens are much superior.
@desertnaut @TylerH @bad_coder Closed question brought up on MSO (the one I asked about yesterday).
 
@JeanneDark Oh, it's your fault!
 
9:32 AM
Yes, entirely my fault. That's why a pumpkin was summoned to punish me ;)
When you come across an NAA that was pushed out of the LQP queue because one reviewer chose "Edit" and you flag it as NAA again, does it re-enter the LQP queue?
 
Probably?
Does common sense still govern the review queues, or was that feature removed?
 
I don't know. Never had access to that queue.
 
The common sense queue? Yeah, me neither.
 
If we had access to it it wouldn't be the common sense queue anylonger ;)
 
@CodyGray I believe it was removed, based on what the new audit selection criteria appear to be...
 
9:41 AM
@RyanM Nothing "new" about that. Bad audits have been a thing since forever.
 
Audits with downvotes, though?
 
I... wow.
 
@CodyGray Common sense has been declared an endangered species.
 
Is it still common sense when it's not common?
 
That's uncommon sense
 
9:43 AM
@RyanM (also, to be clear, I'm referring to the "common sense governing the queues" feature being removed, not the "posts re-entering the queue after being re-flagged" feature)
 
We need bad audits in the review queues. Otherwise: (1) How would we recognize the good ones? (2) How else are folks like me supposed to get reputation on Meta.SO?
 
@RyanM To be completely fair, it looks like that first question had only 1 downvote for the entire time that it was used as an audit. It was extremely top-heavy with upvotes. Although I do remember something about a single downvote being sufficient to disqualify something as an audit under the Old Regime.
 
Yeah, I mostly worry about not having a good way to kick bad audits out. Normally I'd just toss a downvote on it, especially if it was borderline and had helpful answers and seemed to have been adopted as the canonical. But apparently that's not enough for FQ.
 
You will worry even more about that when you win the moderator election.
You will feel small and powerless.
 
10:20 AM
@desertnaut Why not flag as NAA?
 
@Dharman did that, too; thought there is no harm in posting a request here as well
 
Yeah, no harm, but some users avoid voting to delete NAAs to save their delete votes for something more interesting. If I have some left at the end of the day I don't mind voting to delete it.
 
@SurajRao how did I missed that?? :)
 
10:45 AM
@mickmackusa The author edited it now to work as intended. I see no further reason to delete
 
11:13 AM
 
@Dharman I agree. RO, please remove my delpls request at chat.stackoverflow.com/transcript/message/53225279#53225279
 
Should the bounty be rolled back? stackoverflow.com/questions/49207485/…
 
@JeanneDark thanks for the heads up.
 
@SurajRao I think it definitely is not an answer, but since it contains code the flag may or may not be accepted.
 
yes
I agree, some users think this should not be deleted via flags
so you can ask for del-pls here
 
already gone
 
yeah! :)
 
11:55 AM
Morning
 
12:08 PM
@juanfontes Have a look at the FAQ pages on how to format requests. Also better add an actual close reason.
 
@juanfontes we usually use "off-topic" or "not about programming" in similar cases. Also, as @JeanneDark says about formatting
 
oh, sorry for that @JeanneDark @desertnaut, I’ll be more careful next time! Thank you
Thanks for sharing the FAQ, I'll have a look into it. :)
 
Should this sort of editing, when repeated, and after a moderator comment, be flagged as abusive behaviour?
... that's the third time I've had to review it in the Reopen queue!
 
Definitely. The post should be rolled back and locked
 
The review is in the link I edited in to my second comment. Feel free to review as you see fit.
... and another one that gives me déjà vu. Not sure what Cody was up to, there, though. Can't really mod-flag his behaviour.
 
12:24 PM
How to remove this answer? stackoverflow.com/a/371782/1839439
 
OK. I think I see what Cody was up to: The reopen/close cycle presumably clears any existing reopen votes. However, it doesn't remove the post from the review queue.
Three reviews consecutively with that same reopen/close cycle...
 
12:42 PM
How to handle this repeat answer by OP? stackoverflow.com/a/69554568/5779732
 
1:35 PM
Should this be spam flagged? Or (more likely) just edit out the advertisement paragraph?
 
1 message moved to SOCVR /dev/null, by request
 
@AdrianMole I guess spam flag may be declined considering their other contributions. Maybe a custom flag.
 
@JeanneDark The other answers may just be decoys or 'loss-leaders'. Content like PS: Don't forget to upvote and mark my answer as correct if this solved your problem. doesn't bode well.
 
@AdrianMole You can put that into the custom flag text and then mod can still decide whether to apply the spam penalty or not.
 
Hmm. I don't want to challenge rene's "declined flag" stats. ;)
 
1:41 PM
So you fear the custom flag might be declined but not a spam flag?
 
@Dharman what is the issue with it?
@AdrianMole I don't see an advertisement paragraph in that answer?
 
@TylerH This bit: If you can outsource, we can take care of your total saas product development end to end.
 
And also their username and avatar
 
@AdrianMole Ah I missed that line
@JeanneDark Yeah I saw the account didn't see their product explicitly advertised in the post anywhere
I think that line can just be edited out
 
Edited out the whole postscript.
 
1:47 PM
I think it is useful in answering the question
Eg. here's a recommendation of how you would do what you're doing (because it's what we do)
I won't argue if someone else removes it, though. The whole question is off-topic and should be closed
 
Maybe.
 
> PS: Don't forget to upvote and mark my answer as correct if this solved your problem.
And commend and subscribe, too
 
@VLAZ hit that like button, click that little bell to be notified
 
the follow button
 
Bug: The "follow" link is not a bell.
 
1:57 PM
In other news, heyyy I just earned a great answer badge. \o/
@VLAZ Feature request, let us upload videos to SO and post them with answers
 
That is great!
 
literally
@JeanneDark thanks for the heads up -- looking now
 
@TylerH congrats. That's a tough one to get
 
@TylerH Hasn't there been a FR like that already? I remember somebody posted an FR for uploading audio content. Because it's more convenient to answer with audio only instead of having to type.
 
We could post code as audio recordings...
 
2:00 PM
@Dharman OP confirmed the edit was correct, everyone's happy \o/
 
... then we get all the stuff about "How to pronounce SQL?"
 
@VLAZ Oh, possibly? I have not seen one
@AdrianMole It irks me when people argue it should be "Squirrel"
 
@AdrianMole Sung by Tamás.
 
@TylerH That is nuts.
I'll show myself out.
 
2:21 PM
 
2:47 PM
In spanish we say Ese-cu-ele.
 
@Braiam Same in French
 
Most people in English seem to either say "Es, cue, el" (spelling out the letters) or pronounce it like "sequel". They all seem to be able to understand each other. And some even use one or the other at different times. Like me.
 
3:28 PM
@AmitJoshi It's not directly copied from the answer you linked (or the other answer on that post), so I'd say it's fine.
 
3:47 PM
 
4:05 PM
 
4:25 PM
 
5:01 PM
 
@TylerH The author themselves point to the correct solution. The comment that this was copied from has been removed from php.net so now this is some really wrong answer with dead links and just pointing to the correct answer on the same thread.
 
5:18 PM
It's amazing what people upvoted back in the dark ages.
 
The dark ages are over? ;)
 
@IanCampbell I thought the dark ages started when the dark theme was introduced.
 
@Dharman In that case I would mod flag and explain it's an incorrect link-only answer (which links to another answer on the same question, presumably) that you can't delete-vote due to the positive score
 
6:26 PM
0
Q: Rename [airbnb] to [airbnb-js-styleguide]

TylerHThe airbnb tag is specifically about their JS style guide, based on the tag wiki excerpt: For questions about complying with one of Airbnb's JavaScript style guides (located on GitHub). [...] However, because the name is just the name of the company, people use it for all kinds of things, even ...

 
Who's that guy
 
I hear they wrote great answers :P
 
a few times, anyway
 
that's just rumours.
 
hmm
 
7:07 PM
 
7:33 PM
Does this post qualify for VLQ? It is not a question more like a blog entry.
 
@tacoshy If you have the CV privilege, you should use that instead of a flag, assuming the question should be closed. I used a custom reason there, but "needs details or clarity" would have been fine as well.
 
8:10 PM
I go on vacation and come back to an all-SOCVR election
2
 
@Machavity Oh... were Nathan, rene and I supposed to nominate too?
:-P
 
@TylerH And you. Did you not get the memo? :P
 
Sorry, been busy writing Stack Exchange answers for once
wrote two on DIY yesterday
 
Most impressive
 
8:25 PM
Gone now
 
Looks like the latter to me, but I don't fully understand the subject matter.
 
8:41 PM
 
8:56 PM
@Machavity It's no wonder to me. SOCVR is the ideal grooming system for those interested in becoming a moderator. Users learn the importance and ideals of curating here. There is an open line of communication with mods, past mods, and people who behave like caring mods. There are insightful discussions about spam and questionably flaggable content too. Perhaps it should be mandatory that all mod candidates spend at least a year in SOCVR before self-nominating! :)
6
 
Ah yes, the breeding ground
 
I won't be self-nominating until I: 1. have more free time 2. am further groomed by SOCVR 3. have more candidate points than deceze. I would expect to get roasted like Zoe if I raised my hand.
 
what if the candidate score is abolished
 
that last one seems oddly specific
personally I am waiting til #1 for myself (if such a day ever comes, and everything else remains equal). I briefly considered posting a nomination just to push the election forward, but luckily Dharman threw his hat into the ring :-)
 
It's hard for me to get the Sportsman badge because I only post a new answer on a page if I believe I have a superior answer to offer.
 
9:01 PM
it's hard to upvote competing answers when they're all bad
 
@mickmackusa Would you not upvote an answer that is still right but "less good" than your own?
 
and yet i somehow have that badge
O.o
 
@TylerH Ohh no. Am I too blame for your lack of nomination?
 
@KevinB well when you have six thousand answers...
 
@TylerH Nope. That would directly conflict with what I am trying to do -- help researchers find the best answer.
 
9:02 PM
@mickmackusa So you have no faith in researchers to determine the best answer for themselves and think they need a score to tell them? :-P
@Dharman no, no, was just hoping someone else would nominate :-)
 
2.3k
there are people with 6k
or... 30k...
 
You'll probably be one of my votes, unless two other people unexpectedly jump in who I think would be even better candidates
@KevinB and a couple with as many questions... shudders
 
@TylerH Allegedly, you can vote for as many candidates as you want now. Though I haven't personally confirmed this, since the only election I've voted in with the new system had <= 3 candidates.
 
If an answer is less good yet still correct, I do not vote on it.
 
oh yeah that's right, ranked voting
well, read "one of my votes" as "my top vote"
 
9:04 PM
way back in 2012
 
I so wish the US election was run like SO's election. Open nominations, no parties, (well, this year all of the candidates are from the SOCVR party), and preferential voting!
 
isn't there a state that does preferential voting
 
@mickmackusa some may consider that unfortunate, and that good answers deserve upvotes regardless of any other answers that might be better. Upvotes aren't exclusive, after all.
 
@mickmackusa For what it's worth, despite a similar philosophy, I've gotten up to 31/100 (so far) on that badge by going back through old posts and upvoting cases where someone had since posted a better answer than mine.
 
@KevinB Yeah one of the New England ones
I think NYC just adopted it too
 
9:06 PM
@KevinB I think I did read that. Was it a New England state?
 
no idea
 
ranked choice voting would be great for US elections
 
ah the ears of the United States
 
or where another answer maybe wasn't as good, but added some useful piece of additional information
 
9:08 PM
I should probably do that again soon
 
Part of me shares the concerns of the founding fathers about "direct democracy". Sometimes we can't be trusted to vote against our personal interests when they may be better for the nation as a whole.
 
If i did that i'd find a lot of questions that i'd want to close
hmm..
 
@TylerH If a correct and explained answer has a negative tally and no comment that expresses the reason for the downvote, I will upvote it because of a rule of mine called the "Saint Mary MacKillop Principle".
 
On the other hand, the founding fathers owned other human beings, so, not very good role models.
 
and i have teh gold badge to do it
 
9:11 PM
@RyanM I suppose I could find pages where I posted a "curve ball" / "outside the box" answer to a giant canonical and just "Santa Clause" all of the fair answers. But I am also not inclined to game the badge system.
 
@IanCampbell True, but luckily we can look at things in context and acknowledge both the good and the bad in historical peoples' lives
 
not having it is more of a statement than having it
your answers were so great that there were no other answers present that you felt were worth upvoting
 
@mickmackusa I should note that if I did want to game it, I could easily have the badge :-) Makyen posted an excellent defense of the badge when I'd previously complained about it.
 
@IanCampbell ...yeah I wonder who would be the greater powers who "remove candidacies put forth in bad faith" in a US election. Supreme court judges who have life terms?!?
 
The number of people that 1) know the Sportsman (can we rename it to Sportsperson?) badge exists, 2) knows how to check if another user has it, and 3) cares is pretty small.
 
9:12 PM
there's literally 78 answers on one of the questions i answered, that's the badge in almost one question
 
@IanCampbell But it affects candidate score for elections, which we know (or strongly suspect) that people do look at heavily.
 
(granted, about 75 of those answers are duplicates)
 
@KevinB Oh I thought it limited it to 1 per question
 
@RyanM Ah, that's a good point
 
nope
 
9:14 PM
@TylerH Nope, definitely not. I have it on MSE and and I don't even have 100 answers there.
 
Confusing description then.
 
@RyanM ah lame
 
Now see, this is the kind of content I can get excited about deleting.
 
Deleting? I heard someone say that word. What are we deleting?
2
 
@IanCampbell "Up vote 100 answers on questions where an answer of yours has a positive score." seems fairly clear to me
 
9:16 PM
it's just easy to assume it means one per question
(given that i have, and several others have)
 
I'd consider the three of us somewhat avid users and we were all confused.
 
the chances are high that i went around and just upvoted a bunch of stuff for that badge
 
I didn't even realize I had the badge until the discussion about it being hard to get as part of the candidate score.
 
i earned it in 2012... Oh, i can just look at my voting history to see
wow. that was a mistake
i upvoted so much crap
more importantly though i didn't seem to be doing it for the badge
 
Maybe you just had a different understanding of what was "crap" at the time?
 
9:25 PM
yes
 
Seriously, I don't understand why people upvote stuff like this
 
Can we make it so that you can't upvote without a comment?
 
The difference is more that, the questions i was fielding at the time was for a new library
a new very popular library, called jQuery
 
@Dharman we could list all users who upvote something, like some help sites :-P
 
9:28 PM
@Dharman Problematic since comments require 50 rep and upvotes only 15.
 
questions that today would be poorly researched
duplicates
 
@Dharman Obvious plot to get more helpful NLN flags ;-)
 
I'm curious about the "poorly researched" bit. I understand this is a bit of a complex issue and duplicates are definitely something we want to avoid - or at least we want to avoid needing to answer them repeatedly... but if the content isn't on SO at all - even if it's relatively easy to find in documentation - doesn't not hosting it on SO mean that SO won't actually have all of the information? How does that not defeat the goals of SO?
 
the example i was looking at at the time was... how do you reverse an array?
well, you, err, call .reverse on it
 
I understand that there are some things that just maybe are too easy to find on other resources - the example I point at all the time is on M&TV where asking "who starred in [movie]" is off topic because it's better addressed by just looking at IMDb or Wikipedia... but... like... Escaping Vim is surely findable elsewhere but it's also still really valuable here.
 
9:32 PM
It's a tricky bit of cognitive dissonance in terms of SO's model
We want all questions about programming. But we also downvote for lack of effort/research
 
To me, at least, poorly researched means "poorly researched on Stack Overflow." If the answer's easy to find elsewhere, but not here, it's fair game.
 
it's a tough topic, for sure
(i also found a typo question that i answered, and upvoted all other answers that pointed out the same typo)
 
Yes, Ryan's definition is the one I use on SO. Although other network sites feel very differently.
 
@RyanM That (in my mind) is what's likely intended... yes. I feel like we haven't been clear about it, though, so people are closing stuff or downvoting it merely because it's in documentation when, instead, it seems like we should have one excellent version of that question that all of the others can be closed as duplicates of.
 
Someone asks "how do I change the width of an element in CSS"... OK it may not be a duplicate (dear god I hope it is), but it sure as heck is a low effort situation. 5 seconds of googling should give that answer.

The other thing is a lot of (the old guard) kind of don't want SO to be a repository for *all* programming questions, just the ones that are tricky or interesting.
 
9:34 PM
The way i recall it being described to me, is if the documentation is unclear or hard to find/understand/interpret, it's 100% fair game
 
But that isn't even what SO was intended to be - it was (in my understanding) supposed to be for all of those questions, not only the "interesting" ones.
 
The way I see it, there are two kinds of questions on SO. 1. A plea for help and 2. A canonical seed. When a #1 question doesn't show research evidence (the OP clearly didn't search using the keywords that they typed into their question), then this is bad content. If #2, then the standard is lower, but that question better be truly canonical like stackoverflow.com/q/2348205/2943403
 
Yes, the boring documented ones are kinda boring to answer but that doesn't mean we should have gaps in our content library.
 
@Catija I'm not disagreeing, just pointing out what some folks want / perceive it to be
 
well, yes, but at the same time, should we promote someone going through the documentation and asking questions for every bit of it?
 
9:35 PM
@TylerH Oh, I follow you there, don't worry. :)
 
because, that's how we get there,
 
@KevinB No. Not really - I don't think that's necessary. But I also don't think we should close those questions when they come up on the site (save duplicates). We have been struggling for a while with people closing questions in some tags for this very reason - "it's not an interesting question, so I'm closing it"... or "It's in documentation so this doesn't belong on SO"...
and that's causing problems because it means that people who are asking are doing so thinking that even "easy" questions are in-scope, but the curators for those tags are just closing them all.
 
That said, even if I am posting a #2 (canonical / self-answer), I make sure I bake plenty of proof of research and effort into my question to prevent downvotes stackoverflow.com/q/61882916/2943403 ... :)
 
To be clear - I'm not saying that closing is always wrong! I absolutely love curation and think that it's absolutely necessary - but I do think that there are a few places where we need to... refresh how we think about questions and what belongs here so that people are asking and curating under the same (or more similar) expectations.
 
what close reason fits that? isn't that just a downvote reason?
i have seen the typo reason used for a lot of... not typo things recently
 
9:40 PM
@mickmackusa And, to be clear, I think that that's really valuable - when people see questions that are well-asked and researched, and it becomes a question that everyone sees regularly, it shows off how to ask properly in a way that isn't easy to explain. When canonical questions are poorly asked but allowed to continue to exist due to their canonical state - we're actually seeding people with the idea that low-effort "easy" questions are OK/
@KevinB Good question - I'm not actually sure which close reason they're using in this case.
 
@KevinB I've seen a number of close reasons used for that. "Needs details or clarity [about why you're asking the question instead of looking at the docs, I guess]" is the most common. Sometimes "Needs more focus," which I don't understand at all. Or "needs debugging details" because it's a how-to question with no code.Sometimes custom close reasons also. I disapprove of such closures, and generally vote to reopen when I see them.
 
I think the "needs more focus" change was kinda harmful, to be honest. I'm not actually sure how "needs more focus" is a translation of "answering this would require an entire book"... I mean, I can if I squint just right but... it's a bit of a leap.
 
@Catija I 100% agree with you. Historical low-effort posts with upvotes perpetuate the notion that low-effort posts are completely acceptable (and earn unicorn points)
 
yeah i understand why the reasons have been shifted over time, but i don't generally agree with the current state of close reasons/messaging, or how it's presented
 
I think that's something Cesar is looking into but I'm not totally certain.
 
9:47 PM
I like the new-look reopen review queue. Especially when I see some of the 'old' close reasons, and I can vote: "Original close reason has not been resolved."
 
the typo one is the one i'd most like to see clarified. effectively, there's a class of questions where the problem is effectively, the user used the wrong method, or referenced a property incorrectly, etc, but cases that aren't typos in the sense of their finger strayed to the side, it was more a... mental lapse. They fit the "this question was solved in a way unlikely to help future visitors" bit, and the close reason isn't exactly clear that it covers that
 
.. I doubt that it has any long-term effect, but it makes me feel kinda 'part of the Old School'.
 
@AdrianMole I really like it too. I also like that I can vote to not reopen because it's a duplicate.
 
The community-specific ones we can fix.
 
9:48 PM
and by wrong method, i mean a case of they used addClass rather than removeClass
blatantly wrong cases where if you lead the user to focus on it, they'd see it and go "Doh!"
 
@IanCampbell Lots of thing I like about the new-look reopen queue. (Even though it adds a distinct element of "friction".)
 
@Catija I think a large part of the problem is that people get bad advice from looking at the comments on other questions, and start providing such advice to others. "Stack Overflow is not a free code-writing service" is a particular pet peeve of mine. When I asked a simple self-answered question to make a canonical, it was mere moments before I was told (10k/mod link) that my question wasn't needed because "Stackoverflow is not a replacement for documentation and tutorials."
 
I've already written up an in-depth guide to changing the close reasons that are per site. meta.stackexchange.com/questions/362581/…
 
Fortunately, a friendly moderator was around to set everyone straight in that case. But that's not always the case.
 
Yeah, it was nice that he could help.
Transcript links for chat rooms are awesome, by the way. :P
 
9:52 PM
"Friendly moderator" ... is that an oxymoron? xD
 
P.S. Us mere mortal 10kers can't see that chat room
 
@AdrianMole Is "Friendly CM", too?
 
Not going there!
 
@IanCampbell Oh, really? I thought 10kers could see deleted rooms, given a link.
 
i wish there were an easy way to "show posts" in chat when the user you have ignored isn't in the chat
 
9:53 PM
@IanCampbell It seems to work. I'm in there right now.
 
Fascinating. This is what I see: i.stack.imgur.com/ks4Ob.png
 
@IanCampbell Click "First day"
 
Ah, yes. Just click on "join room"
 
@RyanM I definitely think that this is something we need to address - and I don't quite know how to do it. It feels like it will require a bit of a slog to help people understand that this is harmful to the platform to respond this way and that these sorts of questions - particularly when asked well are a boon to the site. I know I use the Vim example all the time but I do so for a reason.
 
Ah, yes, thanks. Sorry for the confusion.
 
9:55 PM
Also, blame Sam's script that you're using that drops you into the transcript rather than the room itself ;-)
 
Wait, Sam has a script to take you to transcripts instead of rooms?
 
well, it's... there's certainly a category of questions that are quite bad that fall under the "code writing service" category
 
... I don't know why that surprises me, honestly.
 
but not all questions that are asking how to do something fit that category, most don't.
 
Sam's scripts have saved me a lot of hassle over the months. I'll blame myself.
 
9:56 PM
 
I guess I (as a non-programmer) see "code writing service" as similar to "homework problem" both are easily misunderstood and seem (to me) like the same thing - If you drop a homework problem in a question without any effort or showing your progress or what you've tried, yeah, that's a bad question - but it's not bad because you're working on homework. It's because you're asking someone to give you the answer.
The image viewer script is life-changing for me.
 
Those that do can be saved by severe editing, but at a certain point it feels... almost like supporting an abusive practice to edit a post from someone who just dumped an exam question into the question box
 
@Catija That is, indeed, a very hard call. I do lots of reviews. In Close and Reopen, I see many questions closed or close-voted that are, quite frankly, appalling. But they don't actually fall into any of the 'official' CV categories. The new First Questions queue gives me (at least, the way I interpret it) a way to give feedback to new users that their question needs improvement but without actually casting a close vote. But even that's a hard call, sometimes.
 
even if it could be painted over into a highly useful question
 
@Catija "It's because you're asking someone to give you the answer." This phrasing is a bit dangerous, because ...well, "asking someone to give you the answer" is how questions work.
 
9:58 PM
@RyanM Asking someone to provide you an answer and do all the legwork for you, from start to finish*
Better? :-)
 
I know what you mean, but it's that mindset among some reviewers that leads to even focused homework-like questions being closed as needing more focus.
 
I think the thing that makes me grumpy is when a perfectly reasonable question is asked but it receives close votes because it was asked within a homework or work task frame, which triggers some users.
 
I have to run to the store but I appreciate this - if y'all keep talking, I'll catch up later!
 
@IanCampbell I refer the honourable member to my previous comment.
 
i'd rather people stop misusing close votes and use the downvote button when they see it as not useful or poorly researched.
 
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