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8:00 PM
Oh, that's not programming, that's scripting. Eye roll.
 
I love how other languages adopted "make" for their own language. F# is "fake", c# is "cake". Then Cake has add-ons called Frosting and Bakery.
 
Ah, see, now we have proof it's not programming: it baking.
 
@CodyGray She's one of those Debian people, isn't she? squints out of corners of eyes
 
There's also BitBake.
@Machavity That's me, actually. :-)
 
@CodyGray this I specifically disagree with, but I still think these are programming problems.
Ultimately, the reasons builds fail at install time are problems that programmers need to solve: they're programming problems. If we relegated the make questions that happen during install to Super User, every one of those questions would have to be answered twice: once on SO for the software author, and once on SU for the person installing it. The answer is the same either way, so it should be on SO.
 
8:01 PM
Uh, you're talking about automated builds during installation?
 
@RyanM No, they have to be answered exactly once, not on SO.
 
The user is not explicitly running make in that case, so that doesn't really count as using the software tool in my book.
 
Using make and various configure scripts is a common system administration task on Unix based systems. It is commonly used in an exclusively system admin role. OTOH, it is commonly used by programmers, and creating Makefiles is programming.
 
I remember installing ...what Makyen said.
I used those tools all the time before I knew how to code
 
I still think that counts as programming, as long as you're doing it in a programming context.
If you're doing it in a system administrator context, then ask somewhere else.
 
8:03 PM
Makefiles are programmed in the c++ language, how is that not programming?
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated Makefiles aren't C++.
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated What?
Makefiles are more scripting/recipies than code meant to be compiled.
 
@gunr2171 also rake for Ruby.
 
They are their own scripting language, basically, meant to be parsed by the program make.
 
@CodyGray I think that distinction is what most of us (who were disagreeing) were trying to get to (i.e. that it's not always programming).
 
8:04 PM
Then I guess I was misinformed.
 
Make itself is written in C.
 
But just because you run make, doesn't make your question a programming one.
 
This is that same silly debate: if you're writing a novel in Visual Studio, is it a programming question?
No if you're asking about the novel; yes if you're asking about using Visual Studio.
 
Except no one writes novels in Visual Studio. Sysadmins compile software outside of programming contexts all the time.
 
@CodyGray If you aren't developing software in it, no.
The task makes the scope, not the tool.
Tools are the tags, topics is the scope.
 
8:06 PM
Meh.
 
To quote Cody again, "intent doesn't matter. What matters is whether the question is framed as a practical programming problem."
 
I could force myself to write sql in word, but not because of that I can say that all word questions are on topic. Like, changing fonts, or where the heck they moved the table builder
 
if the question is about the tool, then the task is irrelevant and the question is on-topic if the tool is for programming. Taking that example, if my question was specifically about visual studio, then the question is on-topic, regardless of what I am doing in visual studio.
 
@RyanM You may think again after you see some of my code comments...
 
:-)
 
8:08 PM
Nuts have kernels.
 
@TylerH Haha, same.
 
Looking at this comment, should this question be deleted?
 
Someone help me add a link? :(
 
[]()
the link is in the ()
 
8:09 PM
Thanks!
 
Those are great comments, actually.
 
Seems OP deleted it already :(
 
@10Repsaysgetvaccinated Description goes in the toilet tank; link goes in the toilet bowl.
3
 
MY LIFE WILL NEVER BE THE SAME
I CAN"T UNSEE THAT
 
I recall hearing this before.
I've never unseen it from then on :D
 
8:10 PM
@CodyGray I think this will help him in future.
 
@gunr2171 I bet a meeting can fix that :P
 
joke's on you - my meetings for today are over : )
(though my grammar for the day is still waking up)
 
That has to be a lie, you live in a perpetually meeting universe, you have meetings in your dreams!
 
dn't wory, my gramar is wors than youre's
 
@gunr2171 Aren't you a programmar?
7
 
8:14 PM
@NathanOliver this makes me irrationally angry
congrats
 
@gunr2171 Whereas Nathan is angrily irrational?
 
he's an irrational number
 
@gunr2171 Technically the truth.
 
Oh come on, get real!
 
8:16 PM
@AdrianMole Why am I angry? I know I'm complex, but I didn't think it bordered on angry
 
Man, you're unreal!
 
your anger is imaginary
math puns, we've hit a new low
 
@gunr2171 go low enough and you'll eventually flip back over to being very high
 
@TylerH So, we are back to programming jokes?
 
Is this a Whose Line skit where we can only respond with questions?
 
8:17 PM
Programming is a joke?
 
php?
 
@AdrianMole Only if you are a programmar?
 
I'm quite anti-grandma.
 
What did she ever do to you?
 
@TylerH wow... haven't watched that in ages... Ryan and Colin were amazing at that sketch (and everything else...) :p
 
8:23 PM
Did you ever meet my grandma? Either of them? (Unlike many Welsh folks, I had two.)
 
This is weird... for Welsh folks
 
@AdrianMole At least you aren't your own grandpa
 
Do you know that, for sure?
 
Ryan was awful at the Hoe Downs (and make no effort to hide the fact he didn't like 'em) but that still ended up quite amusing
@TylerH wibbly wobbly timey wimey and all that...
 
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like bananas.
 
8:26 PM
> //It was at this point I realized I can't set a calendar date-picker to "read-only", and I probably need to do something there.
Ah yes, comments from my past...
 
WinForms?
 
close, WebForms
 
WinForms has an Enabled property for that control. Dunno if WebForms does.
 
@TylerH A read only date picker is just a calendar!
 
Yeah. Not a lot of picking to be done on a read-only control.
 
8:31 PM
You can pick which part you read :p
 
8:46 PM
@code11 yes, the calendar is just a nice representation of the date that someone starts working for the company (in this example, that is); the value is pulled from ADP, our HRIS system.
It could have just been shown as a line of text, but I think my manager at the time wanted a calendar/datepicker look because it 'looked slick'
 
Date-slicker?
 
I can't remember if we ultimately wanted it to be user-changeable or not
 
People being capable of modifying their own records on HR seems like something that HR is allergic to.
 
@Braiam Well it's not modifying the record in ADP, it is modifying the record that is sent to IT who then provisions the employee with access. Sometimes the stuff in ADP can be wrong, too.
IIRC the only thing that really relied on the start date was when our support desk received the email (it's supposed to happen immediately or once the start date is only 1 week away, whichever is first). So it would just result in a manager getting someone provisioned a bit early or shooting themselves in the foot when their employee shows up on Monday but they had changed it to Tuesday and they're not fully provisioned w/ access yet.
 
dbc
Is an answer like this stackoverflow.com/a/65899132/3744182 to What is the difference between “document.write(‘hello world\n’);” and “document.writeln(‘hello world’);”? bad enough that it's appropriate to delete it in review? stackoverflow.com/review/low-quality-posts/28170492 It's borderline gibberish but might be trying to answer the question, sort of.
 
9:02 PM
@dbc IMHO, yes. It's incomprehensible. I can't even begin to guess what they mean about loops, and the only remotely comprehensible part is "if you want to break a line by line then we have to use writeln()." - which I only understand because I already know the answer.
It's a textbook "very low quality" answer, I think.
 
dbc
OK. ... I just re-read You're doing it wrong: A plea for sanity in the Low Quality Posts queue. That's definitely a case of Only if you can't plausibly imagine anyone putting in the work to fix the post should you opt to delete these kinds of answers.
 
Maybe we should have a "Needs Editing" button in the LQP queue? ;-P
 
Maybe we should require 20k reputation to use the LQP queue...
so people who recommend deletion actually delete things
 
9:17 PM
I would also support raising the rep. threshold - maybe not to 20K, though.
 
+1 for raising the threshold, but maybe not to 20k. It's kind of bizarre that 2k users can vote to delete answers if they're just flagged first (which happens incorrectly allll the time), but that that privilege is otherwise restricted to 20k
 
@RyanM the system doesn't allow you to review a post you flagged.
So, you actually need 5 users to agree with deletion and the post being score 0 or less.
 
I know, hence my point about "happens incorrectly alll the time"
 
It's very hard.
 
once we could figure what was in review but Shog9 close that down :)
 
9:23 PM
@RyanM [citation needed]
 
Would it be overly snarky to link to the low-quality-posts queue as my citation?
There's constantly stuff in there that shouldn't have been flagged
 
I've found that most of the things there are questionable content at best.
 
just link the previous meta by Undo ;)
 
Undo's post is about deleting wrong answers. I'm about answers that aren't even wrong
 
@RyanM Why would that be snarky?
 
9:26 PM
@AdrianMole It wouldn't really be a direct citation :-) but spending time in there definitely supports it
 
One of the problems with the Low Quality Posts queue is its name.
 
@AdrianMole Nope, the name is perfect, the players on the other hand...
A site that aims to be high quality content library, can't allow low quality content to remain.
 
There are often times when I see a poor post that is an answer but I just can't allow myself to click "Looks OK."
 
The queue is a reflection of that axiom.
 
@AdrianMole I'm staring at one right now...it's an answer, but it's wrong
and I know it's wrong
 
9:28 PM
@AdrianMole Edit it to be ok, or delete it because it's not high quality ;)
 
Need a "meh" button
 
If we're restricting delete votes on answers to those with 20K+, why are we allowing 2K folks to have a "semi-delete-vote"?
 
If I edited it to be correct, it would be a duplicate answer :-)
 
Then delete it. :D
 
I would have to flag myself for a review vacation if I did :-)
 
9:29 PM
You are a user that has domain knowledge about it. Use said knowledge to improve the quality of the site by removing stuff that isn't high quality.
 
Open in a new tab, skip the review, downvote the answer.
Posts get sent to the LQP queue when a user flags as NAA or VLQ. That queue should be used as a way to either support or reject that flag. Reviewers are like moderators without binding votes.
If you think a moderator should decline such an NAA/VLQ flag, then so should you.
 
@AdrianMole They also get send there by the system ;)
 
Well, yeah, that can happen. Not sure how often it actually does, though.
 
Sadly the year in moderation don't discriminate between -1 and general users, but it's a lot meta.stackoverflow.com/q/404558/792066
~350k answers flagged on the last year alone
But it's less than 2019
 
Community♦ has only just over 200K helpful flags in total (12 years). So, of the 345K last year, it's unlikely that more than around 5% were from the Bot.
 
9:39 PM
@AdrianMole I bet that those are user flags that were assigned to community.
I doubt the auto flags are included in any stat.
 
But I thought that the "system" sends posts to LQP by way of Community♦. Maybe I'm confoozed?
 
Apparently there aren't stats anywhere, not even moderators. meta.stackexchange.com/q/195867/213575
 
> Unfortunately, I can't find Community's flagging record anywhere. Community's flag summary lists only the flags that Community adopted from deleted users
^ from the post above, by a moderator.
 
10:29 PM
I'm just clicking buttons ...
 
@rene trying to get your own meta post? :)
 
I'm "famous" enough on Meta already
2
 
10:48 PM
The new Stacks post editor is available as an opt-in on MSO/MSE. Details and feedback on MSE
8
 
Do we consider training an OCR engine programming, or is that general compute?
 
@oguzismail Thank you for your help with the edits. Let's move on from speaking of other users' behavior or motivations. I've removed the comments, because I don't think they are serving any useful purpose. If someone is still unhappy with the outcome, either ping me with an actionable solution, or post a question on Meta. (cc @fedorqui'SOstopharming')
 
Reopen votes expire right? How can I make sure that the post will not get accidently reopened after I voted to reopen it?
 
@Dharman I'm not sure what you mean. Yes, reopen votes expire. Why would you be worried about a post getting "accidentally reopened" if you voted to reopen?
 
jps
so you voted to reopen but it was a mistake, you don't want it to be reopened?
 
correct
 
jps
can a reopen vote be revoked like a close vote?
 
Yeah, just retract. I believe that's possible.
 
How can I do that? I don't have any button to retract
 
11:06 PM
Oh, apparently it's not possible.
Today I learned. :-)
@Dharman Are you wanting to ultimately have it closed as no repro?
 
Yeah, I believe it was just a typo, since they had two loops but only needed one.
 
OK, I'll fix.
 
I can't see how this will be useful to anyone else
 
jps
so we can retract close votes, but not reopen votes -:(
 
Thanks, but please don't crash Stack Overflow again
 
11:08 PM
Heh. No promises!
@jps Apparently, yes. Upvote the feature request that I linked a few messages back.
 
jps
done! So 6 to 8 weeks after it reached 1000 upvotes we'll have it?
 
@Dharman He's going to use a long pole to carefully click the mouse so that doesn't happen
 
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