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12:09 AM
@CodyGray While I tend to spend substantially more time per day on SO/SE than I probably should (and average way more than is mentioned). The change I noticed the most was the increase in the expected time from 30 minutes/day in prior years to 60 minutes/day this year. I'm just wondering if that's a level of effort we really should be asking of people.
That's a lot of time over a year. It's an equivalent amount of time to a 44 minute commute each work-day (each direction), and works out to 2.2 work-months every year. That's ... a lot to be asking from someone who is a volunteer. Is that really the level of effort at which we (SO) should be staffing moderator positions?
 
Yeah, agreed. I think that's a bit much to ask, too.
If everyone truly put in 30 minutes per day, 20 moderators would be sufficient. I think Sam is setting his sights a bit too high, in an attempt to drive home the larger point that it's a significant committment.
 
It is a significant commitment. People nominating themselves need to know that. My primary concern is that the number implies that's the level at which the mod-team/SO the company is targeting their staffing levels for moderators.
 
I presume you've seen this? That was the most recent discussion we had on the matter, and it's hardly "settled". There hasn't been any more recent discussion about the time commitment expectations, and increasing it to 1 hr/day certainly hasn't come from the company (as I suppose Catija already told you).
My opinion on it is that you probably shouldn't nominate yourself unless you are willing to give freely of your time because you love the site and are going to be here anyway. You should know that it's a major commitment, and there are a lot of flags, a lot of things to keep up with, a lot of things to do, and (potentially) a lot of stress.
But it shouldn't be a burden. There shouldn't be an official "standard". Just a work ethic. It's a volunteer position, after all, and as long as you are helping out, then we welcome the help.
 
@CodyGray I believe I've previously seen that Meta, but not for quite some time. I'll re-read it to refresh my memory. Yes, Catija mentioned the time wasn't coming as a requirement from the company, but it wasn't clear where it was coming from. The tasks, obviously, need to be done. My concern is overloading the people who volunteer/have already volunteered (i.e. already elected).
 
The tasks needing to be done is kind of an abstract problem. They do need to be done, but if they don't get done today, they can still get done tomorrow.
And you definitely don't want to overload the people who volunteer, because then they'll burn out more quickly. And even if they don't, their quality of flag handling will almost certainly suffer, which is really worse in the long run than having some degree of latency in flag-handling.
 
12:21 AM
@CodyGray Yes, exactly.
@CodyGray I fully agree with this and the next message.
 
Philosophically, I take issue with the idea that it should be any kind of "nose to the grindstone" kind of position.
Sometimes you're just in the mood to put your nose to that grindstone, and...it's kind of expected that you will be. But not because you have to; rather, because you love the site and have intrinsic motivation to do so.
@Makyen Problem is, how do you convey this in the nomination solicitation? :-) Again, my take on it is that you don't really have to. People shouldn't be nominating themselves unless they already know this stuff from having been active in non-diamond moderation for a while.
 
@CodyGray Yes, that's ideally the type of people we get.
 
And it's the type of people we want to avoid scaring away by setting any kind of inflated "minimum standard" or "requirement".
The kind of rational, level-headed, dedicated people who make good moderators also tend to make good other things, and therefore have other commitments in their life. And because they're reliable, they won't just let those other commitments fall to keep up some arbitrary standard of duty.
 
Since we already have the topic, I think moderators have to be in a rotation duty. People are very unlikely to self-evaluate when they are burning out. And moderation duties in any platform can be very demanding. You will see the darkest side of humans and humanity.
tl;dr: more moderators; less time
 
@CodyGray That's very true, and definitely how I see it. OTOH, agreeing to be a moderator is also a commitment and shouldn't be entered into unless the person feels they will be able to meet the commitment. Of course, life changes, and there will be times when priorities need to be reevaluated, but the team being able to handle that is largely a matter of maintaining communication.
 
12:28 AM
@Braiam It's a good thought, but there are some practical problems with that. For example, consistency of moderator actions will suffer with vastly more moderators. More concerning to me is that a lot of moderator actions are informed by what you see and know. If you have a rotating group of moderators, the new incoming ones won't have seen what the last group saw, and thus won't properly deal with escalating situations, recurring problems, etc.
 
tl;dr more moderators
 
@CodyGray Eh, we already deal with inconsistency in handling flags with less moderators and mods vs queue, what's a little more for a good cause.
 
I've no opposition to more moderators, though. I just think they need to be overlapping and in communication with each other, rather than being cycled in and out.
 
Of course it would be overlapping.
 
And... we have to add them slowly, not stick in 20 more mods at once.
 
12:31 AM
@CodyGray Yes, all of the above.
 
I mean, don't we have already those "issues" only by the wonderfulness of time zones :D
BTW, the sky was kinda weird recently... instead of blue or grey it was something like dirty brown.... something about sahara dust.
 
Dust is blowing over from the Sahara
 
It was cool for all the wrong reasons.
 
Timezones should follow the Fibonacci sequence. At least we could apply all these programming exercises in real life
 
Fun Fact: Did you know that the country that has the most number of different time zones is ... France?
 
12:35 AM
@AdrianMole Only if you count its overseas territories, which seems like cheating.
 
It's cheating.
The UK was in a similar situation... in 15something
 
But the point is that those French 'overseas territories' (like Reunion, Guadeloupe, etc.) are actually departments of France. UK Overseas territories are treated as separate countries.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:37 AM
Are questions like this that describe a problem and then dump 600 lines of code to debug legitimate questions? If not, how should they be handled?
 
@RyanM I think it's missing "the shortest code necessary to reproduce the problem"
 
2:12 AM
@RyanM They should be closed for "No MRE" because it's not "minimal". They're also unclear.
 
@Nick Actually I think someone may have psychically debugged it...
Seeing the answer, I suspect they might be correct, but I'm no SME
Thoughts?
 
@RyanM that is probably the answer. But it's also possible OP has put event handlers on both parent and child elements. Without code it's impossible to tell.
 
Unrelated: My favorite phrase in questions is things like "I did all the basic steps for X which all succeeded, but when I try to use my app to do X, it doesn't work" well then clearly you either missed one or one didn't succeed. Want to elaborate a bit?
 
2:33 AM
@Nick It is a possible solution, but it's likely not the most appropriate solution. At best, it's a patch on top of a bug to hide the real issue. Admittedly, there are designs where it's the right choice, but it's unlikely the right choice for someone asking that question.
 
@Makyen I totally agree with what you say. And "possible" is a better word than probable in this case.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:43 AM
@RyanM Thank you, I cannot delete vote, they have positif score. I will leave it as is
@Braiam I agree
@AdrianMole Right, good finding, thank you!
 
4:26 AM
@Nick Please don't use comment flags for that. Comment flags mean one thing only: "this comment needs to be deleted". The custom comment flag is intended to give you the ability to specify a non-obvious reason why the comment needs to be deleted, not to request an investigation into suspicious behavior. Raise a custom flag on the post instead.
 
@CodyGray apologies. I didn't realise that was inappropriate. If it comes up again I'll be sure to flag the post.
 
@Nick Yeah, don't re-flag now. I already did that one. :-)
It's a common point of confusion, that's why I bring it up.
The reason it matters is because (A) workflow... but more importantly, (B) comment flags can be easily dismissed by deletion of the comment or deletion of the whole post, which would mean that a moderator misses the problem entirely.
 
@CodyGray thanks. mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
@CodyGray That makes sense. Duly noted.
 
The flag UI is another place I'd change around the text to make it more obvious if I could. But... I don't have the ability to change the text, and I'm not sure it would make much difference even if I could.
 
 
1 hour later…
5:47 AM
@CodyGray maybe the spam bot they have is now throwing this error.
 
Who builds spam bots in C++ targeting ARM64 and running Yocto?
(More importantly: are they hiring? Spam seems like it would be pretty profitable, and that tech stack is right up my alley.)
 
@CodyGray I mean *gestures around* look at us. I wrote a userscript that replaces "folks" with "people" on all SE sites mostly for the hell of it.
Oh gods, I also just remembered that I made a system for filtering console.log messages based on criteria also for the hell of it.
 
6:03 AM
I thought of you and Scratte earlier, when I wrote an answer containing "folks" in the second paragraph. I left it in anyway.
 
 
 
1 hour later…
7:17 AM
@Adriaan man, +60 and accept for just copy-pasting a flowchart from Google. The world has gone mad.
 
@Adriaan Everybody likes a flowchart :)
 
@Scratte well, sure, but just copy-pasting it for that much rep, without even adding your own summary/interpretation makes me sad.
 
It's not at that link now. Did you confirm with the Wayback Machine that it was actually taken straight from a Google page?
 
@CodyGray no; I trusted the user on their blue eyes. I was actually just waiting for it to be closed, and have it bookmarked for deletion in a few days
 
I'm disinclined to delete the whole Q&A...
 
7:28 AM
35k views. Seems like many search results land there. I guess it provides value.
 
Copied far and wide. See, e.g., this Medium post (which may be a duplicate of the Q&A we're discussing).
 
Although it's 35k over 4 years, so it's not super popular but seems like people do find it.
 
Sure, but if the accepted + 2nd highest (by a single vote) answer is nothing but a copy-pasted flowchart with broken attribution...
 
5 mins ago, by Scratte
@Adriaan Everybody likes a flowchart :)
The attribution can be fixed, and/or the answer can be deleted. I'm wondering which makes more sense.
 
@CodyGray How do you quote a specific message in chat?
 
7:32 AM
@VLAZ Paste in a permalink to it. Just like any other oneboxing.
 
@VLAZ hover over -> click the arrow which pops up on the left -> click permalink
 
OK, thanks. I didn't realise it's oneboxing doing this.
 
Yup. Step 2 is wait for a room owner to come spank your hand.
 
It also here: medium.com/google-cloud/a-gcp-flowchart-a-day-2d57cc109401 seems like google can't get rid of their own chart :D
 
Another good option, BTW, is to add that type of information to the tag wiki.
 
7:38 AM
@Scratte The chart is in the cloud already :P
 
7:50 AM
I was under the impression that it doesn't matter much if a link is broken, because we do not have link-only Answers, and everything needed in the Answer is present in the Answer. I'm not sure how to fix the link if Google chose to remove the chart. Wouldn't it be sketchy to link to a different source that also just links to Google's original via the broken link?
 
@Scratte You can link to the web archive. It's probably the best option. Might be worth a note on the answer, as well: "Note: archived link. The flow chart has been removed by Google".
 
8:12 AM
@VLAZ Strangely, I'm getting this a lot which seems to indicate that the wayback machine is broken too..
 
@Scratte this version seems to be correct.
 
@Scratte 301 is "moved permanently" which means that it was a redirect at the time you're looking at, and you need to go back further. Nothing wrong with the Wayback Machine, though.
 
@VLAZ I found one for Apr. 12th 2019 :)
 
I went for the last version that is before the post. Since the post is from Feb 2018, the most recent version before it was July 2017
 
I've put a comment on the post. At least if it all goes pink, the comment will go pink with it
 
8:17 AM
I guess, they all show the same diagram, though, so it doesn't matter that much.
 
@VLAZ That makes more sense than going though the dates like I did :)
 
Yes, it seems that May 2019 is the last time that page was live, according to the archive. In June, it starts returning a 301. It moved from /storage-options to /products/storage
 
 
9:56 AM
@Adriaan corn beef!? :p
 
@JonClements mhm, I even like spam better than corn beef
 
oh come on... corn beef hash is lovely :)
 
10:23 AM
@JonClements dog food
 
like I said... lovely :)
 
Seeing the yellow dog next to the pink elephant makes me wonder if the yellow dog is giant or the pink elephant is tiny.
 
@Scratte Pride hurt
 
@Adriaan I so insensitive! I even started to imagine the yellow dog in the size of the Marshmallow man from Ghost Busters.
 
On the bright side @Adriaan - the Steam Summer Sale is on :)
 
10:49 AM
@Scratte It also looks like an elephant is about to land on the dog! :=)
 
@JonClements I like to compare against gog and see if they put up some deals.
 
@Braiam I've got into the habit of just purchasing whatever comes up as free on epic games even if it's not something I'm likely to play...
 
@JonClements I can relate :D
But as I'm on Linux, sometimes is not even if I would play it, but if my system can run it.
 
Talking of which there's two there - will grab those... that AER looks like it might be worth a go
Yeah... I've had some luck with Wine/lutris for stuff but the occasional game is the only reason Windows stlll exists on the PC (albeit it with a tiny partition)
 
11:12 AM
@JonClements I barely play video games any more. I spent my free time hiking/cycling around or watching snooker in the pub
 
And the snooker gets better after a few Whiskeys? Even when you're just watching ...
 
@rene Everything gets better with a good whisky! :=]
 
true that
 
11:38 AM
Much to the chagrin of my europeans acquaintances I don't enjoy alcohol.
 
No problem, we still <3 U ...
 
@halfer I think maybe that already happened. It would explain the small body and the large head ;)
 
12:39 PM
Morning
 
user12867493
My autoreview comments disappeared from the userscript... How can I get them back?
 
user12867493
I tried importing from here: comments.socvr.org But it's not importing
 
user12867493
It imported some of it, not the NAA ones
 
1:07 PM
@Daniil Do you know how they just disappeared?
 
@Scratte They went POOF.
 
@Braiam Good one :) I was trying to find out if it was caused by some user-action :)
 
1:27 PM
@Daniil You do know that the list of comments offered is context sensitive, I guess? That is, you won't see the NAA comments when you're on a Question. (Just checking - not wishing to assume anything.)
 
user12867493
@AdrianMole Huh, didn't think of that
 
user12867493
Sometimes you miss the most obvious things :P
 
Posting comments when you downvote is a terrible idea
Posting comments is a terrible experience on its own
 
@Dharman Are you OK?
 
Yeah, just annoyed that people expect feedback but when you explain why you disagree with an answer they start arguing with you.
 
Never disagree with anyone. It wastes so much time.
 
It's the only way to make things change and not just let bad things happen
 
1:59 PM
I disagree!
 
lol!.. I have tears rolling down my face now :D
 
@Dharman Abolish anyone who can comment.
Problem solved
 
@Dharman It's still unclear and now it is no reproducible
 
^ And to think it received 2 upvotes.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:06 PM
@Dharman Yesterday after explaining my downvote, the poster called me a futhermucker before deleting the answer. I mean, people can't have it both ways. I always think it is more mature to comment with a DV. Personally, I'd rather someone downvote AND leave a comment that I disagree with rather than nothing at all. In fact, years ago, John Dvorak downvoted one of my necroposts and explained why he didn't like my post. We talked it out and he kindly retracted it.
Many times people have flamed at me for downvoting after I left a comment explaining why. When it gets ugly, I tell them that I am not being rude. I am actually showing how much I care. If I wanted to be rude, I would call them names or not comment at all.
 
@mickmackusa It's a no-win game. I suspect that those who constantly 'demand' on Meta that downvoters should leave comments are also the ones who react so distastefully when you do. I generally prefer that folks leave a comment - if there is something particular in my post that could be improved.
 
I used to have a philosophy whereby I would only leave a comment if I was willing to retract my downvote. However, my current philosophy is to always explain myself. This does multiple things. It gives clarity to the OP, it shows other volunteers why they might also downvote, it shows the Upvote Pixies that they shouldn't blindly neutralize the vote out of sympathy
, but most importantly my comments intend to groom users so that they don't make the same mistake when I am offline / not babysitting their posts.
 
But your last part, if expressed in a comment, could be taken as a bit holier-than-thou.
 
3:23 PM
You are right, @AdrianMole Overall, I am not well-loved in the php tag pool -- I think it is because people find me righteous. However, in my wake, there is better curated content. I am not here to make friends (I don't do Social Networks), I am here to help make something amazing.
 
@mickmackusa Well, in the words of one of the Great Tsars: "Who cares if they love me? So long as they fear me!"
 
I don't want to be feared either.
I just want everyone to care more.
 
@mickmackusa Absolutely! And a free blueberry muffin with every 10th upvote. ;-P
 
3:30 PM
It is not a given that by default users assume the collective invested effort/value is more important then their own invested effort/value.
 
@rene I think I should flag this as voting irregularity.
 
please do.
 
3:49 PM
@Dharman Sorry about that, won't do it again ;=)
 
4:10 PM
@rene Man, rose tinted glasses are thick out there :D
Sadly, society teach people to be more individualist rather than collaborative and cynics rather than compassionate.
 
question I'm having trouble finding the answer to: Do I flag answers along the lines of "i had the same problem and tried doing X and it fixed it for me" as Not-An-Answer or not?
 
@pretzelhammer it's an answer. Maybe not a great one but it addresses the issue.
Although when google searches have led me to such answers, I've found many of them solve something unrelated.
 
@Braiam yeah, it hasn't become easier the last 6 to 8 years nor is there a hopeful trend.
 
so total "shot in the dark" answers like "idk try restarting MySQL it worked for me lol" are valid and should not be flagged, but perhaps just downvoted?
 
yes, if you think that is not a useful answer
 
4:21 PM
@pretzelhammer feel free to downvote them if you think they are bad. In some cases I don't know so I don't vote either way. Sometimes "turn it off and on again" is indeed the answer.
 
@pretzelhammer Edit it so you remove the extra fluff
That's how one can identify naa's
If even editing it, doesn't look like one, then you know what to do.
 
@pretzelhammer on that specific example I would risk a VLQ flag but combined with a down vote and a proper explanation why that is just a guess and not likely to solve the root cause.
 
4:40 PM
I am also "so close" imgur.com/a/aENmL9d
 
@mickmackusa I think they call that cheating :D
 
no, no, no, that's totally legit.
 
Mine seems to be at 355. At least it's a nice number..
 
6:04 PM
I found a post which I flagged, but it hasn't been deleted.
Why hasn't it been roomba'd?
 
@10Rep It needs to be reviewed first
 
@AlonEitan Okay, I have looked and it just got accepted
thanks
 
you're welcome
 
@10Rep There are specific Roomba tasks. The one which this question is most likely to qualify for is the one which deletes questions 9 days after being closed.
 
@Makyen And there's your Roomba Forcaster app :)
 
@AlonEitan Yep, I probably should have mentioned that. :)
 
I think I will stop helping new users and I will stop posting comments under answers. stackoverflow.com/questions/62586043/…
 
@Dharman What a user! I used to think like that...
 
What changed?
 
6:28 PM
@Dharman I used to answer bad questions.
 
@10Rep On unrelated note I would recommend you to remove your age from your bio.
 
@Dharman Why?
 
You are in the clear but the internet is full of bad people. It's not necessarily a bad thing to tell people your age, but personal information can be used against you. It's my personal advice, but you don't have to listen to me.
 
@Dharman Yep, I removed it.
 
6:49 PM
@CodyGray HI Cody, Thank you for the message. Can you please check the downvoting yesterday stackoverflow.com/users/3732271/akrun?tab=reputation
@Dharman I meant 6 downvotes and this could be a reaction because I reported here
e.g. here the OP mentioned it works stackoverflow.com/questions/62585728/… but still got a downvote
I find a pattern when the same guy closes a question as dupe tag and getting a downvote
 
I am too tired. I can't deal with this today. How is there an answer on this one? stackoverflow.com/questions/62600737/…
 
@akrun I don't know why you ping me, but yes you got 4 serial downvotes. If they are not reversed after 48 hours you can raise a flag.
 
@Dharman Because you responded to me last time
@Dharman My flags are getting rejected, so not sure if I would be able to do that
 
@akrun What did you say in the flag?
 
6:56 PM
I said unnecessarily downvoting
 
@akrun I am not sure if this one was downvoted as part of the serial voting or just a normal downvote.
@akrun That is not a reason to flag. If I were a mod, I would immediately decline this. What do you want mods to with such flag?
 
I don't think it is a normal downvote bcz if that is the case it would have at least some reason. In some posts, it is only downvoting my post
 
A flag needs to be very clear. Mods are not clairvoyant
3
 
how do you categorize a normal downvote
 
A normal downvote is a downvote that is not part of a serial revenge voting
 
6:59 PM
6 or 7 downvotes looks revenge to me. It is only that some of their were done not consecutively
 
If you get 3 or more downvotes in a period of few minutes, these votes are not legitimate and they will be reversed. Every other vote is fine
 
So you are saying that if I do a downvote to another person every 15 minute unnecessarily that won't be revenge?
 
@akrun The system should reverse most of them tomorrow. If not you can raise a mod flag to mods saying: "I have been a victim of revenge downvoting. I waited 48 hours, but the votes were not reversed. Could you escalate this to the Community Managers so that they can look into this and reverse manually, please? Thank you!"
 
Please note that these are downvoted just to get a reaction from me in comments and they can flag it to suspend me
ok thanks
 
@akrun Don't react in comments. You are overreacting even now. Look at the scale. Why are you bothered by few downvotes when you are getting so many upvotes every day. Do you really think that these downvotes hurt Stack Overflow so bad that you need to escalate this issue?"
I get it. It never feels to be a victim, but sometimes you can just ignore it instead of letting it ruin your day.
 
7:02 PM
because I see a pattern
 
@akrun Please don't ping moderators for things which can/should be handled via flags. We have a specific rule against doing so in here. It's fine for you to ask us for advice on how to better communicate the issue with moderators (e.g. as has already been/is being discussed), but we don't want moderators to feel that their being here in SOCVR is an invitation for them to be asked to do even more moderation tasks.
 
Waffles
 
And... ninja'd... again. :;
 
@akrun Just because you see a pattern, does not mean there is one. The user might really have valid reasons to downvote some of your answers. Maybe it is not them and you are just targeting them. I had a similar case in the past, where I was targetted by a user and I was pretty sure I knew who it was. I raised a flag, but the pattern was not enough to do anything about it. The user got bored in the end and stopped.
 
@Dharman I am using R for more than 15 years. Please don't say that I don't know the reason why a better answer is downvoted
 
7:06 PM
If you are upset by this then you are only giving them what they want. If they want to annoy then they are succeeding.
 
@akrun If you see a pattern, then you need to clearly communicate the pattern that you see to moderators in the flag you raise. Moderators are not going to do anything about a single downvote. There's really nothing they can do about that. However, a pattern is something they can see, but seeing it may require you to clearly point it out. If there is a pattern, then they can escalate the issue to CMs who can actually see who voted and can investigate further and act.
 
@akrun in particular, in addition to what @Dharman said, you should note that you received a series of 3 downvotes within 1 minute. That is the only suspicious pattern I can see on your profile right now
 
Morning all - happy Saturday.
 
@RyanM My point is that a person can avoid the system to detect if they wanted
serial voting every 10 minutes or so wouldn't raise an alarm as far as based on the discussion from here
 
@tink Don't be happy; worry.
 
7:08 PM
you should also note exactly when you received those downvotes, since the queue for investigating suspicious downvotes is a bit long at the moment and it'll help the mods know where exactly to look
 
If you want to accuse someone of evil-doing then you really need to have a solid proof. Moderators will not act on a flag that says "unnecessarily downvoting"
 
@akrun your answer may have been downvoted because Tim Post lost his keys
 
@akrun You can raise a flag for something that a system missed. Wait to see if the system picks it up first. If not then raise a flag as I said above, but clearly state what the problem is and what you want moderators to do.
 
@tink man, time flies. I'm hoping I'll reach the end of Friday alive ...
 
@tink Evening. It's still Friday.
 
7:11 PM
@tink Good morning (I guess technically afternoon now) from Friday
 
@akrun The specifics of what the serial voting reversal script detects are not public. I can say from personal experience that it does catch a large number of votes spread out across the day. However, a small number are, at times, not caught.
 
Heh ... sorry guys ;) ... can't help myself =}
Need more coffee, too =}
 
@Makyen It would if there is a bunch of votes within a minute. Sometime back I got 7 or 8 upvotes within a minute and it was reversed
 
!!/coffee tink
 
@rene brews a cup of Ristretto for @tink
 
7:13 PM
@akrun When your votes are being investigated, will you be ok if they find some irregular upvotes as well?
 
@akrun at risk of speaking for Makyen, 7 or 8 is "a large number." 1-3 is a small number.
 
@tink If something bad happens in the future you can warn us ahead of time.
 
LOL
 
Poor tink, bombarded with envious greetings from the past ;-P
 
Thanks @rene
 
7:14 PM
@RyanM my point is exactly that. It may not be even the same guy who downvoted. Because, I know that from their chat forum, it is a group voting
 
@akrun Gather all the evidence and once you have enough to actually convict a user then raise a flag.
 
@akrun if you can point to a specific forum where this is being coordinated, with evidence, you should absolutely include that in your flag. They would take that very seriously if given concrete evidence. I've personally seen mods nuke voting rings.
 
@akrun Then also, in your flag, point the moderator at where the voting was coordinated.
 
We can't help you more than that in this room. We do not moderate users.
 
@Makyen I don't visit their site often e.g GMTs. But, in the past, I had seen people urging to downvote
 
7:20 PM
This is something the devs can look into. The mods as well have a broad overview and can see voting patterns if there is one. If you suspect you are being targeted a mod flag or using the contact us is your way forward.
 
@NathanOliver Let me say a scenario. If an user or group wants to downvote and they knows the rules of getting it caught. So, they do one downvote every 3 hour or may be irregularly. Does that get caught if they continue for many days?
 
@akrun That wont be caught by the script. You'd need the devs to find out something like that.
 
@akrun Moderators want to uphold the standards of the site. If something is happening that's against the rules, then they are going to want to correct it and prevent it from happening again. However, they are not omniscient. If there is a case for something wrong going on, but it's not obvious, then you need to explain it to them with as much supporting information as you can get, particularly when the issue is hard to see.
If it requires more space to lay out the case and supporting evidence, then create a page somewhere where you can do so (e.g. a GitHub Gist). Large amounts of explanation are not needed for the things that are easy to see, but things which are difficult to see, really need as much supporting evidence as you can gather.
 
Also, I don't think there is any provocation from my end to any users to have this kind of downvotes. Only reason is that they wanted me to get suspended and it was there in their chat group discussion years back. They do know that when somebody is repeatedly downvoted, one may react and they flag it. I was suspended exactly for that reason.
 
7:34 PM
Also, just another downvote stackoverflow.com/questions/62601427/…
 
@akrun Well, the key to that is to not react in ways which are against the rules or violate the Code of Conduct. There are ways to react which are effective, as we've been discussing above. While we're not privy to what caused your suspension, it's usually something beyond a declined flag or two. What it was is really between yourself and the moderators. As to the flag(s) being declined, we've offered some advice as to what can be effective in communicating with the moderators.
The general thing for the flags, and most communication, is to try to put yourself in the moderator's position. Think about what information they need to be directed to in order to see the same patterns which you are seeing. Accept that what you've done in the past hasn't been effective in communicating to them the issue you are having, or, if they've said so, that some of the assumptions you've used about what is going on are inaccurate (which is always a possibility; we're all fallible).
 
It is just like somebody wants to downvote me even though the other solution is not answering the question
@Makyen You can check stackoverflow.com/questions/62601427/… just now a downvote. The other solution is not even answering the question, but it was downvoting my correct answer. How is it fair
It is not even a duplicate, so I reopened it
 
@akrun In this case, I suspect you were downvoted for answering (what they at least thought was) a duplicate question. Many people don't like these answers because they make duplicates harder to delete, and so they downvote them. I don't personally do this, but it's not an uncommon practice. It's also not a flaggable offense to do so.
@akrun Worth noting: the person who asked the question thought it was a duplicate
 
@RyanM Sorry, it is not a duplicate per se. Dupe tags are not meant to target somebody. It is related, but not duplicate
 
@akrun The other answer doesn't have a single downvote. It looks like no R expert thought that the answer is wrong.
 
7:39 PM
@akrun I've looked. Yours looks like a good answer, but I don't know R, so I'm not able to evaluate either answer, or if the question is, or is not, a duplicate.
 
@Makyen It is related, but not a dupe, but the link was about finding local maxima and minima and not about subsetting the first max
 
There are 350k questions in R tag. I would expect that there are duplicate targets available already for such easy questions. Maybe the question was not easy, so correct me if I am wrong
 
@Dharman Sure, almost 90% of the questions asked are dupes, but they are not tagged, only when I answer, it gets tagged and downvoted
 
@akrun You have the gold-badge, why don't you close them yourself instead of answering?
 
@akrun While I'm familiar with data manipulation and the terms, I'm not familiar with R, or the functions/features available. Thus, I'm not able to say with enough precision to really form an opinion about it being a duplicate, or not.
 
7:43 PM
These are common questions asked everyday stackoverflow.com/questions/62588876/…, but not tagged because they don't want it
@Dharman I do close some of them, but i don't get time to do this often
Or a very common question like this stackoverflow.com/questions/62588559/…
 
@akrun If it is a duplicate of another question, instead of or in addition to the question it was closed as a duplicate of, then, as a gold tag badge holder, you can edit the list of duplicate questions to include up to five questions, if needed.
 
@akrun Many people would argue that getting the local maxima is the difficult part, and thus close enough to be closed as a duplicate (but not merged). Again, the original poster even thought so - note that the question was closed by Community. This means that the person who posted the question thought it was a duplicate.
 
@Makyen Yes, I do that, but my point is that the person who answers know exactly that it is a dupe, because he himself does dupe tag similar questions while others answer
@RyanM I don't think so because the specific question he asked was different
 
Just close as many as you can and then delete the unnecessary duplicates. You can ask for help with deleting here from time to time
 
Or this one stackoverflow.com/questions/62588462/… It was asked daily and even one of my posts got dupe tagged. but not this
 
7:47 PM
@akrun Why don't you close it?
 
@Dharman As soon as I close it, they will have a discussion on GMTs and I get downvotes
that is what is happening now. I ddid close some of these posts as dupes
 
You've now linked three posts by the same user (whose posts you linked last time as well) - please be mindful of user targeting in this room (though note that I am not a room owner and thus my advice is non-binding)
what is GMTs?
 
That should not happen. No one should downvote you for closing questions. Especially if they are not the user who asked it. It makes no sense to downvote you for trying to keep the site clean.
 
but yes, if you can get a link to or a screenshot of these discussions to coordinate revenge downvotes, you should absolutely include that in a mod flag, and don't engage with the users in the comments. Scolding them is not going to help, and will only result in more flags against you for perceived unkindness. Calmly lay out your case (specifically, coordination of "revenge" downvotes, not merely "unnecessary" downvotes) with evidence in a mod flag, and the mods will investigate it for you.
 
@RyanM Sorry, I was just showing some links that should be dupes, it happened that all of them had the same user answered it
 
7:57 PM
@akrun If this is what happens, then you should do it more. Then the pattern will become much more clear.
 
@akrun You really need to start closing more and if people disagree with you just walk away. Cut your loses. Don't start meaningless wars. Don't engage with users in comments or in the chat. Just relax and move on. If a question gets reopened then go find another question to close. Stop looking at other people's profiles unnecessarly, it seems to cause you more harm than good.
 
@Scratte I don't want to create a very unhealthy env by closing as dupe. In the past, when I dupe tagged, somebody flagged it as revenge dupes
and I got some moderator warning for that
 
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