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12:01 AM
Can we get a "+0" bubble for upvotes on Meta? (I could make a feature-request.)
 
I downvote all feature requests for more notifications
3
I get too darn many as it is
 
@CodyGray I'll bet
hehe
 
Fun fact: there's a moderator inbox (shaped like a diamond in the top bar) that shows all moderator messages sent and replies. Yay, more notifications!
Further fun fact: on all sites except Stack Overflow, this moderator inbox notifies moderators of all new posts on their site's Meta. Obviously, this does not work on Stack Overflow...
 
D:
 
@AdrianMole Oohh! I got a +10. It's the same green as it always was.
Hardcoded in the CSS as #5eba7d
 
12:14 AM
Wasn't me!
... pizza vote time.
 
Probably wasn't anyone here... It was an upvote for an answer on Retrocomputing
 
@CodyGray How can you call a function in assembly when your compiler has PIE on by default without disabling PIE?
as in relocation R_X86_64_PC32 against symbol 'puts@@GLIBC_2.2.5' can not be used when making a shared object; recompile with -fPIC
 
I think Peter answered that here: stackoverflow.com/a/46493456 and/or stackoverflow.com/a/52131094/366904
The linker should be able to sort it out, assuming you're linking the assembly code at the same time as the C code.
 
12:31 AM
@CodyGray (going back to posting an x86 assembly answer on Meta) Why was my question deleted? --> Run this to find out: .globl main; main: mov $0x00216B6375732055, %rdi; push %rdi; lea (%rsp), %rdi; call puts@plt; pop %rdi; ret (of course, you wouldn't say this; only for humor purposes)
 
@S.S.Anne Contradiction: everything I say is "only for humor purposes"
 
If you actually ran it you'd know why I added a note there.
 
@S.S.Anne Heh. I wouldn't run code that some rando typed on the Internet. Fortunately, I can actually read x86 asm and execute it in my head, so it's pretty clear what it does. All I needed was a hex -> ASCII converter (because I'm not doing that in my head).
 
I'm not some rando... and for fear of painful death I wouldn't share any malicious code with anyone, let alone you.
So anyway, what does it say?
 
The string is U suck!\0, so passing that to puts is going to make you into a putz.
 
12:47 AM
Nice. It's actually just U suck! (because the null terminator is required to make it into a string). I'm surprised that you didn't get caught up on endianness and having to read it backwards.
 
Yeah, the string you encoded is NUL-terminated. I realize that's required for the C string API, and that it's not going to get printed that way.
It's x86. x86 is always little-endian.
 
the only sane endianness
 
Terrible for writing portable code because you can convert pointers to ints into pointers to shorts or chars and have it "just work".
 
This is why reinterpret_cast is UB
Also alignment.
 
 
1 hour later…
2:19 AM
I think that the close reason should be renamed "overly broad, underly focused"
 
3:01 AM
As I go thru the reopen queue, I see a recurring behaviour that most of the new users take "needs more focus" as "it is too long, make it briefer" and end up with an even more "blurry" post :(
 
Yeah, I don't think that the new phrasing makes much sense.
 
3:38 AM
@Vega Unfortunately, the new phasing sacrificed a considerable amount of clarity on the alter of being welcoming.
 
@Shree this answer you flagged is an answer stackoverflow.com/a/60106766
 
@Makyen s/phasing/phrasing/
 
@SamuelLiew Thanks for feed back. Miss read the context.
 
@Makyen I should say, please don't take that the wrong way. I believe we should be welcoming and improving that is important. However, the way SE has implemented things leaves a large amount to be desired.
 
 
3 hours later…
6:46 AM
 
7:12 AM
@Makyen s/alter/altar/
 
7:29 AM
@tripleee Yep. sigh :-;
So... it looks like I need to proofread my messages more thoroughly.
 
8:26 AM
I've seen this on one badge "Ask a well-received question on 100 separate days, and maintain a positive question record". Can those days be spread out, or do they need to be consecutive?
 
@Scratte They can be spread or continuous...
 
@AmitJoshi Thanks. I expected that if they can be split out, they can also be continuous :) I just thought continuous was sort of un-achievable. If someone tries for it and don't get on upvote on the 99th, they would have to start over.
 
8:41 AM
@Scratte In opposition, the fanatic badge is earned for 100 consecutive days. Miss a day after the 99th, and you have to restart ;)
 
9:01 AM
@Vega Unless someone is doing active waiting. Bummer if the internet connection is off on the last day :D
@Vega update the message by mistake. It was meant to start with: At least it doesn't require any work.
 
@Scratte Almost true (/my) story ;)
 
jps
9:42 AM
Hi, did anyone delete the "does this answer your question" auto-comment on my last close-vote(duplicate)? The comment was there, and when I came back a minute late it disappeared
 
only you or a mod could have deleted it.
 
jps
@double-beep sure, but I already had my second coffee and would have noticed the "really delete this comment" message. Probably a glitch in the matrix moment.
 
!!/coffee jps
 
@double-beep brews a cup of Espresso for @jsp
@double-beep brews a cup of Americano for @jps
 
@jps two is not enough, have one more ^
 
9:55 AM
On the other hand I don't see why a moderator would delete that comment as there is ongoing cv on it
 
Can "normal" users auto-delete another users comment? By using a flag?
 
jps
ok, will drink more coffe ;-) @Vega,yep, no rational explanation for that, maybe really a glitch
 
@Scratte yeah, for example thank you comments, or 'this should be the accepted answer', etc.
but of course not such comments
@jps post on meta?
 
@double-beep. So there's a robot evaluation the content of the comment prior to an auto-delete?
 
yes, I think so
 
jps
10:02 AM
@Scratte if you flag a "Thank you" comment, it gets deleted within a second, when you flag other comments, they are usually pending for quite a while until a mod looks into it.
 
@jps: The flag being "No Longer Needed", I expect?
 
jps
yes, that one
 
@jps That could get complicated if the message starts with "Thank you for your answer, however I think you might have misunderstood my problem.. blah blah.."
 
@Scratte not all 'thank you' comments get deleted when you flag them - there's a length limit
 
what happens if a OP declines the duplicate flag? (or did I completely misunderstand the workings of such flagging?)
 
10:12 AM
@Scratte they can't "decline" it, if they accept it the post will be marked as a duplicate immediately, if they don't the notice will just stay there until the question is closed or the close vote(s) expire
so OP accepting is a way to close it immediately, but otherwise it will just sit in the duplicate queue and hopefully attract the required additional close votes
.... hmm, I guess if they click no then the offer to accept will no longer be displayed so in that sense there is a "decline" option
but it just removes the offer
 
@tripleee Thanks. I was wondering why all my pending duplicate flags were just sitting there.
 
@Scratte my impression is that they do get reviewed now, it used to be the queue was full but after the threshold was reduced to three close votes I see a lot fewer nominations
 
@tripleee I had one that just aged away. Two almost identical questions by the same user. One with more information, one with less. Maybe it's just a one off.
 
jps
10:28 AM
@double-beep: wow, good find. Thank you:) That seems to be exactly the problem. And CodeCaster really knows the problems, e.g.: "A question asker generally doesn't recognize that a duplicate actually answers their question" a new feature that was well meant...
 
10:47 AM
What counts as serial voting? I just got 2 downvotes on not so great questions of mine. Obviously I was targeted, because they are seconds apart, but I can't say I disagree with the votes.
 
11:20 AM
@Dharman 2 does not
 
^ sdk
 
 
2 hours later…
1:11 PM
Morning
 
Morning
 
o/
 
1:51 PM
Morning
 
2:44 PM
@Das_Geek see my comment reply on that last SD report on the MS page btw; not sure if it notifies you in anyway when you get @-ed there
 
@TylerH It doesn't, and I wasn't referring to repl.it but the last link in their post
 
@Das_Geek fp is right either way. Their website is weird, but I think it was only linked to show how it looks live.
 
@Dharman Agreed on the fp. I just wanted to note that I thought the inclusion was weird.
 
@Das_Geek I edited it out.
 
@Das_Geek @Dharman you misunderstand; the last link is still repl.it; it is just the "live output" view of repl.it
under repl.co
 
2:56 PM
@TylerH I know. The idea is that they are meant to demonstrate the piece of code from the answer, not give link to their little project where they used this approach.
@TylerH I am not claiming it is their personal site, rather that the link to their project is not suitable for the answer.
 
Question about above question: Would this warrant a VLQ flag?
 
eh, I think it's a valid thing to want to show. We often show how something would look in HTML/CSS questions. Though thank you for clarifying re: their personal site; I was thrown by "their website is weird" which indicated to me you did think it was theirs.
 
I need to chose better wording next time. :D
 
I also have only been out of bed for like one hour
 
@AdrianMole VLQ on question is the same as close flag.
 
3:03 PM
@Dharman OK - didn't realize that (the only place I see it for Qs is in the H&I reviews).
but that question is about as poor as I've seen for a very long time!
 
There are schizophrenic people and drunk people, they post questions here too. I would suggest to post cv-pls and del-pls here to get it off the site quickly. It probably doesn't deserve mods attention.
 
Hey - what's wrong with (a) schizophrenic and (b) drunk people? (So long as they provide good posts, that is!)
 
@AdrianMole They talk to themselves.
 
hehe
 
@Dharman all the best people do :-)
also, relevant
 
3:18 PM
Does anyone have a medium account to report it to them?
 
Sorry, I only have a lite account
 
@Dharman lol
 
 
1 hour later…
4:22 PM
@Lankymart what off-site resource is being requested here? I only see a request to validate OP's elucidated understanding of the code presented
it's atomic and objectively answerable, from what I can tell
 
4:41 PM
not sure if that should technically be fp or tp
it does list @gmail.com in the post but literally only that.
 
fp I believe but, low quali fo' sho'
 
@treyBake It's too old to flag as VLQ
 
@TylerH damn, I guess just DV
 
Do we want to vote to delete?
 
I'm not sure (but I'm not 20k anyway)
@kvantour it's now open. Gonna post a FORTRAN answer in 2020? :-D
 
4:44 PM
@NathanOliver I would say.. pos yes? Last updated 2 months under a year with no OP feedback, or anyone else's feedback, OP hasn't been active since July last year either with that post being their only one
 
@treyBake the deciding factor should not be OP's activity, but the quality/worth of the answer
 
Yeah, remove the user from the equation
 
ah ok, with that aside.. I'd say yes, no real evidence of it working or no real explanation why
 
5:02 PM
 
6:15 PM
@S.S.Anne This is getting reopened FYI
 
6:36 PM
Can someone /dev/null this?
 
@S.S.Anne this == NULL
2
 
*gasp*
 
we also shouldn't forget the => operator! if (blurry => NULL) {print "User is rene\n"; DONE!}
 
It's >=.
 
@S.S.Anne yeah, I know, => doesn't actually exist ;)
 
6:53 PM
@S.S.Anne That last Smokey report, though undisclosed affiliation, is properly answering the question. The OP was asking about a project the user had authored. I left a comment asking them to make the affiliation explicit in their post
I would suggest retracting your flag and changing your feedback to tp instead of tpu
 
7:06 PM
 
@jps It's a few "feature". Now, when the asker disagrees that their question is a duplicate, your auto-comment gets deleted. The close vote is not retracted; just the comment is removed by Community (the same way these comments have always been auto-deleted when the question was closed). So, no, you aren't imagining things.
@Scratte Yes. When comments are flagged by a user, they are immediately compared against a regex. If there are any matches, the flagged comment will be instantly removed, without ever being seen/reviewed by a moderator. The regex matches things like expletives, very short comments saying "thanks/thank you", and so on.
If the regex doesn't match, your comment flag gets put into the moderator queue, where one of us will (eventually) review it, and decide either to delete the comment (helpful flag) or not delete the comment (declined flag).
@Scratte Duplicate flags are just "recommend closure" flags, and all such flags go into the Close Vote Review Queue, which all users with close vote privileges have access to (>= 3k reputation). This is a normal user review queue, distinct from the moderator flag dashboard. Moderators don't generally look at these flags, and there are so many of them that they don't always get reviewed by the community.
As I believe Makyen told you, after a certain period of time, your recommend closure flags do age away.
@Dharman You cannot draw that "obviously I was targeted, because they are seconds apart" conclusion. There are lots of users on SO; it's entirely possible that two different people looked at your posts and decided to downvote them. And yeah, like Andras said, 2 votes doesn't establish a pattern as far as either the system or moderators are concerned.
There's a script that automatically reverses targeted voting at, uh, 3:00 UTC (something like that) each day. Otherwise, you can raise a moderator flag to have us investigate. I don't recommend doing this for 2 votes, since, as I stated, that's not sufficient to establish a pattern.
@Dharman No it isn't.... They're separate flags. VLQ flags on questions are seen by moderators. Don't use them as "needs to be closed" flags. They mean "needs to be instantly deleted".
 
@CodyGray Thank you. Yes, Makyen did tell me that. There was no deletion of the comment on the post either. So I'm not confused about that :) Do you read everything written here? :)
 
@CodyGray why is it then that only <3k users can raise these flags?
 
@Scratte I just went back and read the transcript, yes. I don't always.
 
Or can I raise them too, but I just don't know how.
Besides that broken queue.
 
7:16 PM
@Dharman Are you sure they can? I don't think that's true. There are limits on when you can raise VLQ flags. I think the question has to be less than a certain age, and it cannot be positively-scored.
Yeah, they're not. Go look at a brand-new question. Click flag, and you'll see an option to flag as "very low quality". I have that option, too.
 
Just asked, -3, not closed and I don't have this option
 
If you like long, rambling posts with some snark, you can read mine here about VLQ on questions that need to be closed.
 
"we now only allow VLQ on posts with a score of zero or lower for the first seven days" accoding to meta.stackexchange.com/questions/93595/…
 
@Dharman ??? !!!
 
@Dharman you can only raise them on posts that don't have any upvotes
it's not about the total score but whether anyone has upvoted it
 
7:19 PM
Link? Maybe it's already been flagged as VLQ. Maybe there can only be one in flight at a time.
 
@CodyGray Quick question. Is asking or notifying a mod in chat of some action, say for instance that I recently mod-flagged a post that still had an inline dupe notice (not true in this case, just an example), so that they can take action directly rather than let the mod-flag process happen "naturally", considered abuse of the system? I would lean on the side of "yes it is", but I figured I'd ask anyway
 
@Das_Geek Abuse is far too strong of a word for that...
 
@Dharman it's already being reviewed for closure
VLQ flags aren't available for questions that are already in the review queue
 
@TylerH point in case.
 
7:21 PM
(it's case in point)
 
So, it's not a case, as in like a bag?
 
@CodyGray Sure, and I'm not trying to justify an accusation with this line of questioning. I was just making sure it wasn't thin ice I was treading on before I did something myself
 
@Dharman But >3k users can still cast VLQ flags instead of a close vote: i.stack.imgur.com/VFINz.png
 
@Das_Geek On balance, I think it's OK. Use your best judgment. For example, don't pester mods with nonsense; ask judiciously and sparingly. It should probably be a mod that you're already talking to and/or have talked to before (I hesitate to say "have a relationship with", but yeah).
Also...probably err on not escalating stuff that you get a direct personal advantage out of, like "can you remove my bounty?" or "can you check serial downvotes against my account" or whatever. Things that improve the site for everyone are, in my mind, much fairer game.
 
@TylerH once the question gets closed, the flag is marked as helpful
 
7:24 PM
See meta.stackoverflow.com/a/286972/2756409 from Shog for more info on the VLQ flag not appearing
 
I miss being able to pester that guy (Shog9) to get things changed that I want to see changed. (This also speaks to Das_Geek's question.)
 
@CodyGray Okay, good to know. That being said, can you hop into Charcoal HQ for a sec?
 
@Das_Geek I can't seem to find a way to change it from tpu to tp. The spam flag has been marked helpful so evidently a moderator looked through.
 
@Dharman So, I'm still a bit confused on this VLQ for questions, after all the discussion (and even having read the long, rambling, snarky answer by @Cody). I hit the "Question is very low quality" link in the H & I queue a few times a while ago, and got 'hit' with a batch of declined flags. Would an in-built "close" link in H & I be better? (I have it via SOUP but using that means I still have to Skip.)
 
@AdrianMole yeah me too
 
7:33 PM
And I'm still unaware of a method to get posts like the schizo/drunk one I linked earlier fast-track deleted (as that one should), rather than having to go through the Close-then-wait-then-Delete (7 day) process.
 
@AdrianMole it's not 7 days
 
How long is it?
 
You can ask for immediate deletion by 20kers
 
OK, I'll bear that in mind.
 
@AdrianMole roomba: stackoverflow.com/help/roomba ? (and my much MSO post to make that findable: meta.stackoverflow.com/questions/376734/…
 
7:36 PM
@AdrianMole If a VLQ flag is available, then raise one. If not, downvoting and closure should be sufficient in the general case. If you strongly feel that the question is causing active harm, then you can also raise a custom moderator flag, but I would advise doing that very sparingly and to explain very clearly what harm you think the post is causing and why it needs to be immediately mod-deleted.
Um, you also can, of course, post something in this little room...
 
@rene Sure, but that's the automagic deletion. I was sort of hoping that a VLQ flag could be used to request a fast-track deletion squad (20Ks + Mods).
 
that always works
 
... as now just pointed out, one can just visit this bunch of vigilantes. :)
 
@AdrianMole Note that 20k close voters can vote to delete a question immediately after it's closed only if the question also is at a score of -2 or lower
if you use the Unclosed Request Review Script it will indicate when 20k requests have been posted that are invalid, and why (among many other things)
 
Which brings us back to something Shog was always pointing out: downvotes are your most effective weapons.
 
7:47 PM
if you aren't already using it
 
8:45 PM
What do y'all figure for this question; "Needs detail" okay, or would "off-topic" be better?
 
@Das_Geek OT SU for me
 
Same
 
@NathanOliver for you? close votes Nathan
 
crushes votes with C++ Mjölnir
 
@Das_Geek looks similar to this stackoverflow.com/questions/49420385/…
 
8:51 PM
@NathanOliver knocks C++ out of alignment with CSS Mjolnir
 
delete votes CSS
 
Styles. Such cascade. Much sheets.
 
Nathan is clearly three stylesheets to the wind right now
 
Thanks for the advice. I had thought OT SU at first, but didn't think it would have been a good question there either. Too much missing from the question
 
@Das_Geek Notice I used OT, not migrate. This way they will at least learn about SU, and can try asking there.
Oh, wait, OT close posts don't do that anymore, do they?
 
9:01 PM
@NathanOliver Of that I was aware. I had thought similar rules were generally imposed for site-recommending OT flags, though not as strictly as migration ones. IIRC, the poster gets the site link, just not others
 
@NathanOliver Nope. The message that tells you that is in the CV window, but not the resulting message. They won't even link to the help center
 
9:14 PM
 
jps
9:39 PM
@CodyGray thanks for your response, just learned today about this new "feature", double-beep gave me a link to a meta thread about that. And CodeCasters main concern in this thread A question asker generally doesn't recognize that a duplicate actually answers their question is so true, exactly what I experienced today and why I was wondering about this strange new feature. A well meant but not really well considered feature.
 
10:02 PM
@jps I only learned about this "feature" 2-3 days ago myself. I share your concerns.
 
Same here. Can't tell you how many times an OP says there Q isn't a dupe, just because they want an answer that uses their code that they can copy-pasta, and not have to try and understand the dupe.
 
10:20 PM
I may or may not have had a CM try to tell me that, in their judgment, if the OP doesn't understand the answers to the duplicate, it isn't a duplicate.
To be fair, one of their points, and one which I agree with, is that you should be allowed to ask a follow-up question about something you don't understand. But that needs to be called out explicitly in order for it not to be a duplicate. There is also the concern about closing things as duplicates of, essentially, "RTFM". I agree that is a cause for concern. You don't want a situation where you're closing it as a duplicate because there's one sentence in one of the answers that is relevant
 
@CodyGray we're going to close it anyway, so what's the difference?
If they leave the comments be, then at least next person can suggest a different duplicate instead of the same one.
If we are not allowed to close posts as duplicate just because OP doesn't understand the answer, then we would be closing only 10% of what we close now.
 
10:47 PM
@CodyGray Asking a follow-up question along the lines you describe has always been fine and not a duplicate of the original (unless it actually is, but such questions are generally given wide leeway). It might be a duplicate of yet a different question also asking for clarification.
Part of the solution to the new question (or substantially edited question) might be that one or more answers on the original dup-target are updated to include more explanation. At that point, the follow-up might, then, be a dup of the original, but that also implies that it might have been more appropriate to add a comment on one of the answers asking for clarification, which may, or may not, have been possible for the OP to do.
As far as I know, you've always been permitted, even encouraged, to ask follow-up questions. However, that doesn't mean the original, at least as originally asked, isn't a duplicate and should have the possible-dup comment removed.
Frankly, I don't really see what the argument about follow-up questions being permitted has to do with the original question being a duplicate, and/or about removing the dup-comment based on the OP rejecting the duplicate. Questions usually are fairly clearly either a follow-up, or not, based on how they are worded and what they are asking. I understand it's not your argument, but I'm just not seeing why the issue of follow-up questions would be relevant to removing the possible-dup comment.
Sure, there are times when someone is actually asking a follow-up where a user votes to close as a dup of the main dup-target, but I'd be surprised if that's not quite rare compared to the number of times an OP marks their question as not a duplicate. IMO, it certainly doesn't make sense to have the default system action assume that's what's happening.
Not that making the above arguments to you is all that beneficial, given that you aren't the one that made the choice to have the possible-dup comment automatically removed when the OP rejects the dup. :-;
 
That last thing. I argued about this for quite some time.
Another argument that was made to me was that, often times, the answers to other questions use language that is too complex for the asker of the purported duplicate to understand.
 
@CodyGray Yeah, that was mostly expressing frustration with someone thinking it was a valid argument. sigh
 
Fundamentally, I do not understand nor do I agree with the view that the asker's motivation, confusion, inadequacies, or anything else should have any effect on whether or not a question is a duplicate. That should be assessed strictly by looking at the questions and the answers.
Unless, of course, like you and I both have said, they knowingly cite the other question and say what they don't understand about it.
It seems to be one of those situations where: programming is hard, asking for help is hard, understanding the answers is hard, tutorials are too hard (to find, to read, to understand, etc.).... just help me!
The discussion got interrupted by an extremely rude moderator message and also having to go deal with a (different user) chronically rude commenter.
When I write the script of the future, I don't want it to include helpless people.
 
I agree. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to request clarification. Doing so is one of the purposes of asking a new question. OTOH, a reasonable amount of clarification can often be obtained by placing a comment on the answer(s) of the original dup-question.
Yeah, the "just help me" attitude is symptomatic of a large number of people that feel entitled to be spoon fed, or at least who have never been taught, or learned, how to learn. It's unfortunate that the education system primarily focuses on teaching specific things, rather than teaching the process of learning new information for yourself.
 
11:07 PM
@CodyGray that's when the autocommenter could self-delete their autocomment manually...
 

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