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12:06 AM
@bad_coder Hmm.. Socrates was executed, no? :) Partially due to the fact that he failed to convince others that he shouldn't be executed :D
@bad_coder See, that is a good Question. It seems that the "inventor" of the rule says that it's not a rule, but merely guidance to the askers. Though I'm not entirely sure if it contradicts "give close voters some context about how to handle such questions". So I'm still thinking about it.
 
@Scratte if the post isn't well received that doesn't reflect on you. What are we talking about -10 votes? What is meta?
 
12:37 AM
@bad_coder I feel that it's important, so I'd rather not mess it up :)
 
@Scratte think about it, write it, and post it. You are one of the few persons in the community that has enough support to do it.
 
@bad_coder Thanks, but are you sure I'm not just known only in this room? :)
 
@Scratte yes I'm sure.
 
12:52 AM
@cigien Why did you reopen this? The OP's complaint about the dupe was unjustified. I addressed the exact problem when hammering that question.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ It seemed like the target didn't address the OP's question directly. The target seems reasonable actually. Sorry, I must have missed your comments when I reopened.
Wait, the question is specifically about printing the values.
 
@cigien np, the comment was written right now. You couldn't have seen it.
 
Oh, ok. But also, I think the target is not really correct. There must be an appropriate target for this though.
 
@bad_coder Since you like music so much, maybe you'll enjoy Evolution of Music - Pentatonix :)
 
1:08 AM
 
@Scratte mmm didn't really like it that much, they misrepresent several musics I like. (And in general I like everything). The bass is also out of harmony with the rest of the voices. But the latter part of the video had funny passages I liked.
 
@bad_coder Oh. I'm sorry to hear that. I'm not one of the artists though. Even if I wish I was :D
 
2:04 AM
@cigien I made the bold assumption that there is an implicit [undel-pls] in that [reopen-pls] request. Otherwise, it would be silly.
 
@Makyen Was there a problem with that [reopen-pls] from cigien?
 
@AdrianMole I assume that you mean the one to which you just replied. The question was deleted, so the reopen-pls was invalid. It was automatically picked up by the Archiver and moved. If they want to post an undel-pls, that would be reasonable. I did not specifically select the request to be moved, nor did I notice it in the Archiver's popup of those messages automatically detected in order to manually exclude it from being moved.
 
@AdrianMole Sorry, it wasn't deleted when I made the request. Thanks.
 
Now it's not - you can do it again, or I can.
 
Got it, thanks again.
Ah, the userscript made that much more efficient. Yay :)
 
2:39 AM
... another one of those cases where I really don't get why it was deleted (other than "because we can"). There have been a few too many, for my liking, of late ... maybe a Meta post coming on.
 
I'm not seeing a del-pls for it in the graveyard.
 
... also interesting that the OP had the chance to undelete vote. Does that come at 125 rep. for one's own posts?
@cigien I think it was deleted 'organically'.
 
Yeah, that post needn't have been deleted so soon. The OP was very clearly responsive.
No idea when users get the privilege to undelete vote their own post I'm afraid.
Huh, it already has another delete vote? :(
 
Pretty sure it's 125 (or thereabouts) for a reopen vote. OP in that case doesn't have much more.
@cigien Quite worrying. But, IIRC, delete votes can be recast by the same users as originally (not like close votes).
 
I really don't get what's so terrible about that post that it needs deletion.
 
2:45 AM
@cigien There's nothing terrible about this post that merits its deletion at all.
 
@AdrianMole Oh yeah, delete votes can be cast again, that's for sure.
 
... but so can undelete votes, of course! ;)
 
True :)
 
... and, if that keeps happening, then a mod-flag would have to be raised, I guess.
 
To me it seems somewhat spiteful.
Maybe it's the username..
 
2:48 AM
I can understand users playing fast and loose with up/down-votes, but do they not realize their close/delete votes are publicly visible if the action is completed?
 
The 20K vote-to-delete option is now (temporarily) disabled, as it's less than 24 hours old and has a score > -3.
 
@Scratte I didn't want to mention it, but yeah, that username is not going to bring out the best in people :(
 
@cigien I expect they assume it will not be un-deleted and that no one will check who deleted it.
 
@Scratte Well, they're in for a surprise if a meta ends up being written.
 
@cigien But, that's judging a post, not by it's content, but by the name of the user. Not at all in Dr King's Dream.
 
2:51 AM
No, but are you saying that you think that's unlikely to be a factor? I can't be sure but I feel I've seen users get triggered by less.
 
Usernames can change though. I generally don't pay much attention to them. Only this one is really long :D
 
Could be worse: JavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJavaJava ?!?
 
Try it with Haskell or JavaScript :D
 
hehe
 
Maybe I'm mistaken, but I thought cpp was a compiler.
 
2:54 AM
I would be careful with those jokes. Adrian has a cpp hammer now ;)
Your message will get summarily closed.
 
Wait.. the p means + ? I'm not joking though. I thought the language was c++ but the name of a compiler was cpp.
 
Oh, sorry :p Yeah, the p is just +. I don't think there's a compiler named cpp.
 
How does one compile a c++ program on the command line?
 
c+p = cpp = cp+ = c++ = cpp ... != ++c.
 
Is it then the + that's overloaded or the p?
 
2:57 AM
@Scratte g++ myprog.cpp xD
 
With whatever alias you're using, it's typically g++.
 
@AdrianMole I see.. the .cpp is the surname of the file :) I guess they didn't want to call them .c++
 
I don't think the + was allowed in filenames back in the days when C++ was invented.
 
The last time I compiled anything c or c++ was before I started drinking coffee in the morning. I think I can't remember that far back.
But I do recall creating a processor simulator in.. I think it was c++. As a school project. We didn't have Stack Overflow back then, so I had to it myself :D (..which isn't entirely true, as we were a team and some of the code was already written, so we just had to work out how it worked and fill in the missing bits..)
@AdrianMole I think you're going to have to Answer a few more Questions though. You're looking awfully close to getting back to silver if for some reason a user is removed.
 
@Scratte Life's more fun on the edges.
2
 
3:11 AM
@AdrianMole Heh.. I was at 101 when I got a "user was removed" :) I didn't much bother me. I wasn't using it :D
 
 
2 hours later…
4:43 AM
What's the appropriate way to deal with this? stackoverflow.com/q/65453682/9473764
 
@Nick - Probably best to just flag it. (meta.stackexchange.com/questions/113404/…)
 
@slackwing thanks for the link I think I'll just edit it out, comment and vtc as too broad
 
@Nick - Good call, finding the other valid reasons to VTC.
 
@Nick Flag as spam
 
@EJoshuaS-ReinstateMonica isn't it better to try and make it into an answerable question?
 
4:58 AM
I think either is fine. If you choose to edit it, then you should leave a comment, as you did. If the OP rolls back, then raise a spam flag.
 
I've edited it into something that I think an SME might be able to answer. Unfortunately I'm not one...
 
 
1 hour later…
@Nick I would not flag
 
@Vega Is it not just links? take away the links and there really isn't any information - what issue was raised? how was it resolved?
 
@Nick I concur, and have flagged as NAA
 
@tripleee having written the reply to Vega I convinced myself as well! :)
 
6:46 AM
 
@Nick The main info is that there was an issue and you need to update the version
@cigien I would prefer see that as a comment
 
@Vega Yeah, me too. Thanks.
 
^ So would I. Flagged already
 
Yeah, I would upvote that if it were a comment :)
 
I just saw a profile of a user being temporarily suspended for 28.5 years :o
 
7:40 AM
@Vega Fair enough. I don't think that's well explained in the answer. Anyway, the flag may get declined, it doesn't really matter. At least 3 more people will have taken a look at it.
 
 
 
1 hour later…
Zoe
9:33 AM
@Vega There's one suspended for 136 years too IIRC
 
 
1 hour later…
10:42 AM
@Zoe That is a quite longtime to reflect about all the incorrect actions :D
But if they are like Koschei, then it is temporarily :)
 
11:08 AM
@Georgy If this is a common misconception I don't think this should be deleted
 
11:41 AM
@oguzismail We already have a more general duplicate for that: How do I use a Boolean in Python?. But, since there are more problems with that question (no MCVE, side issues with regex, unsearchable title), I don't see the point in keeping/polishing it.
 
12:17 PM
@Nick Please, please try not to use the mysql_* duplicate target for questions using mysqli. e.g. stackoverflow.com/questions/65453730/… We have canonical questions for all 3 of them separately.
 
12:49 PM
@Georgy It has a MCVE, side issues with regex is not a reason for deletion, and I don't think that title is unsearchable.
 
1:40 PM
o/
 
I recently asked here, whether questions solely on the subject docker, minikube, minishift,... are off-topic and got no answers. I would like to ask this question again. As an example: I feel that this question should be migrated to SuperUser (not serverfault, since it is not a production-related question).
 
@Turing85 Maybe better as a question on Meta? Much wider audience, there.
 
@AdrianMole Heh.. but then it'll get closed & deleted... an maybe no Answers will come :)
 
Isn't that the point of Meta? (Well, other than extended arguments in comments with former moderators.)
 
I think Machavity had an opinion on docker some time ago, but I may have been mistaken.
 
1:55 PM
@Turing85 I'm not aware of many docker experts being on SOCVR. That type of question is best asked on meta so the wider community can take a look at it.
 
@AdrianMole What?.. That never happens :P
 
@Scratte But you have a nice reply from CPPCPPCPPCPP...
 
@bad_coder tbh, I am not willing to put time & effort into that. As was pointed out, chances are it just gets downvoted, closed or duped with an inappropriate dupe.
 
@AdrianMole Don't know that user. I know of another one that's a little similar though :P
 
@πάνταῥεῖ But the code snippet was so nice. xD
 
2:19 PM
okay, let me broaden the scope on this one, maybe I am then able to get some feedback here. I feel that questions for any kind of configuration of container-, cloud-, CICD-techonologies are off-topic for SO. To name a few scenarios: "My gitlab-pipeline isn't working", "How can I auto-create tables in my postgresql-container?", "My aws-cloudformation template is not starting"

While all of those are problems encountered by a DevOps engineer, I feel that they are not strictly programming- or programminig-tool-related.
 
And we have a resurrection.
 
@bad_coder context/relevance? Also, I am not sure about the room rules, but I think we should stick to english. If you wanna chat in german, just invite me in a room =)
 
Hi, silly question. Do we actually bother to report people with 2 accounts? People that are not using them for anything obviously bad, but still they do have 2 accounts.
 
Zoe
It's allowed to have more than 2 accounts as long as they're not involved in anything bad. If you're suspicious there's something weird going on, report it. Otherwise, don't
 
2:28 PM
Ok I will adopt the "season of good will" approach and ignore it :) Thanks
OP is just terrible at asking questions and I guess gets banned quite often so needs another account to have another try :)
 
@RiggsFolly feel free to report me.
 
@rene There's a queue.
 
@rene Luckily I dont know how :)
 
@RiggsFolly Quality filters don't work only on accounts.
 
@RiggsFolly Pick any post, mod flag and work on your declined flag rate ...
 
2:48 PM
I am curious, while this queston is actually quite popular, is it on topic here? Seems as well as general computing, just a term definition rather than programming problem.
 
> Asked 9 years, 7 months ago
With enough time, anything gets either deleted or upvoted
 
of course, and attracts low quality answers like a magnet
 
@Braiam or both
 
@Turing85 Are you aware how difficult is to delete something with score >10?
 
@Braiam nope =) Hadn't hat the pleasure
 
2:55 PM
@Scratte what made you take issue with the "homework" affair?
@Ruli I think FAQ #11 applies, should possibly be removed.
 
it was active recently
or you mean I abuse the cv-pls?
 
@Ruli what was the recent activity (I failed to see it)?
 
Asked 9 years, 7 months ago
Active 21 days ago
but yes I see that the answer or whatever activity was most likely removed, as I cant see it there, you are correct in that
 
@AdrianMole That was shortly lived, huh?
 
@Ruli there was a minor grammar correction to 1 answer in a total of 24 answers, perhaps an RO ruling would be necessary on this (I'm honestly confused about the rules now.)
 
3:03 PM
@Scratte 8 minutes.
 
@bad_coder Even that moves the question to active.
 
@Turing85 I'm not sure about that. I think the border is if they are resource requests, so "Can someone find me a .yaml that will give me this image?" is not OK. But "This docker image is not doing what I need it to, how to I do it?" is OK.
 
@Braiam @rene can you please explain if any minor activity like an edit qualifies under FAQ #11 ?
 
@bad_coder I don't like injustice? :)
 
@Scratte why do you deem it to be injustice?
 
3:07 PM
@bad_coder was going to ask haha, well I did not check what activity was there, just seen this post and it seems as off-topic and activity is there, rules say active within 6 months, I think this rule would be weird if it applies on only a part of activities, rather confusing to newcomers, wouldn't it?
 
@Ruli I'm honestly amazed, I just found out that if you click the "activity" link on top of the post it takes you to wherever the last activity was (really nice functionality).
 
@bad_coder active is active. As long as it doesn't break other rules I'm ok with it
 
@bad_coder I made an example of the differences between "I'm doing a project for school on git. I'd like to know the difference between git fetch and git pull" versus "What's the difference between git fetch and git pull?". To me, it's an injustice to everyone to kill the first post. The second got to stay and is one of the most viewed and highly upvoted posts.
 
@bad_coder good one, didn't notice this either :)
 
Hi
Is there an easy way to find a chatroom associated with a specific SE site?
 
3:10 PM
@rene thanks for explaining that I was honestly confused.
 
@bad_coder But to be fair. The project isn't my baby at all. I'm just along for the ride.
 
@Scratte aahhh, "project", "along for ride"? Help me here by keeping it simple, "injustice" <- in 1 word, that was the reason?
 
@bad_coder Now I'm confused about what you're confused about :)
 
@Scratte this sentence here.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ On the chat.stackexchange server?
@bad_coder It started a while ago, and long before I even joined. Users have expressed discontent with bullet point nr 3 in the help center guideline before. It's been discussed here as well, and I was only part of the conversation.
 
3:16 PM
@Scratte Ty. Found what I've been looking for there.
 
@Scratte the general word is injustice (we would have to define the meaning of the word in terms of ethics.) <- Vast majority of people aren't able to (and I'll rather not define it today).
@Scratte but the particular word, that applies, is: discrimination. (and you could easily add bigotry).
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Aww.. I just prepared a nice image with red arrows and everything :D
 
@πάνταῥεῖ you could find the site here https://api.stackexchange.com/docs/sites#pagesize=500&filter=!*L6Sij6nwnd5cVTe&run=true and then look for the related_sites where the relation = "chat"
 
@bad_coder That was just my choice of word. If I picked a bad one, then I'd be happy to pick another one.
 
@Scratte Sry to disappoint you. The server URL was already enough starting point for me. But ty for your efforts anyways.
 
3:22 PM
So, if a user edits a question after answers have been posted, and that edit invalidates those answers, a rollback is in order, right? But what if the OP then undoes that rollback, even after comments asking them not to? Is that flaggable?
 
@rene Found it.
 
@AdrianMole You could keep rolling back until an auto-flag is raised ;)
 
@AdrianMole Does it make the question better?
 
@Scratte the problem is, calling things for what they are...(but look at the dictionary, it's clear cut.)
 
@Braiam It makes it a fundamentally different question.
 
3:23 PM
@AdrianMole But it was closed?
 
@rene That seems a bit technical.. there's a user interface way too..
 
@rene Most probably a Meta-SE dupe anyways. Excuse my laziness pls.
 
@Braiam No. Two correct answers (one mine, so I don't want to link) to the original. Anyway, OP has now changed again, to leave the original intact and added an 'addendum'.
 
@Scratte the requirement was underspecified ... not my fault ...
 
@AdrianMole I'm very apologetic for answeres, I really am, but if the answer applies to either version of the question... does it matter?
 
3:32 PM
@Braiam Seems to be resolved now, by appropriate edits to the question and answers. However, the original edit changed the question so much (even though it was only 3 character changes) that it required a very different answer. In fact, a comment was made pointing out that one answer (not mine) was actually wrong - that comment has now also been removed.
 
@AdrianMole I bet it was a "not" :D
 
@Braiam Nope! Changing [10] to [7]. :-)
 
That's not three character change! D:!
 
Tis - two deleted, one added.
 
Not sure if this is the appropriate place to ask, but why is the "Help and Improvement" queue always empty? I've been actively reviewing/moderating the past month and I've never seen that queue above 0
 
3:38 PM
One modified, one deleted :/
 
It's a matter of perspective.
 
@pretzelhammer Because SE fixed Triage
 
Oh, the "needs community edit" and "needs author edit" things are new... okay thanks, that explains it
 
 
5:56 PM
Another MS Q&A spam audit on meta. Can a moderator invalidate the audit please?
 
@RiggsFolly Evading system or moderator imposed bans or limits is one class of things which isn't a permitted use of multiple accounts. I thought that was clearly stated in most, if not all, of the Meta questions about sockpuppet accounts (e.g. "How should sockpuppets be handled on Stack Exchange?"). I'm unsure where you'd get the impression that their doing that is acceptable.
If you think that someone is evading a ban or suspension with the use of multiple accounts, then flag a post and explain, preferably with links to the accounts and/or posts.
@AdrianMole Yes.
 
@Makyen Thanks. However, the case in point has been resolved more amicably. :-)
 
6:21 PM
@cigien Why are we invalidting them? They are pretty obvious spam
I guess that you have to know that, but nonetheless it is spam
 
@Dharman I don't have an opinion on whether we should invalidate them. Well, I do but that's besides the point. These posts being used as audits has proven to be controversial, and all the previous posts that have been brought up, either here or on meta, have been invalidated as audits by moderators. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that's precedent for invalidating all audits using posts from that spam series.
@Dharman That's interesting. So if you have to already know that it's spam that doesn't change whether it's spam, but that makes it a bad audit, right?
 
I am a little on the fence about using these posts as audits. On one hand they are very good spam examples. When looking at that you should have a red light go off in your head. On the other hand plagiarised answers used as spam can be misleading in audits... but isn't that the whole point? You have to be very diligent as a reviewer. If something looks fishy, investigate more. Once you start digging you quickly realize that this is an audit.
 
Is there some link for the precedent? I've been away the last few days.
 
@BaummitAugen No moderator used the term "precedence". However, I can find the links to the specific questions about the audits in the transcript. In all cases that I remember, shortly after that a moderator undeleted/downvoted/deleted the post (I presumed that's how audits are invalidated). Would you like those links? It'll just take me a few minutes to find them.
 
6:35 PM
Looking for some links ... But, you know spam-audits don't grow on trees! :-)
 
@cigien Yeah, gimme one of those, then I'll invalidate that audit too.
 
@BaummitAugen Here's one. It wasn't the first, or the last, but I responded to it, so it was easier to find :p
I can look for the others as well, there's at least one or two more, I think.
 
Nah, good enough. Thanks.
 
np
fwiw, I don't really disagree with your comments on that meta. This spam series might be a reasonable point to use to discuss how spam audits work in LPQ. I don't really know much about it.
 
The audit system is not particularly sophisticated. In this context, everything that has valid spam flags and no R/A flags can become a "known bad" audit.
Pretty sure there was plenty of discussion on that on Meta, I can have a look if you want.
 
6:49 PM
not particularly sophisticated ... that's something of an understatement.
 
But the wheels turn slowly, so nothing ever got changed or close to implemented so far.
 
@BaummitAugen Don't bother on my account, at least. I won't turn down a curated list of links if you share it, of course :) Yeah, I don't have much of an opinion about the matter, except that I think a lot of changes could be made for the better. At least, there seem to be a lot of complaints about how several aspects of it work.
 
The best suggestion I heard so far (in here) was to have high-rep users (or mods) select audits. Then those selections could be reviewed, so there would be an Audit Review Queue and (of course) Audit Review Queue Audits ... and so forth. xD
5
 
I like the idea, but I think restricting it to just mods would be an easier first step. Letting users review them would lead to, as you point out, a need for reviewing the reviewers, ... etc. Coming up with a system for that, even if possible, would be somewhat challenging. At least moderators don't need to be reviewed. And I'm sure they all have plenty of time to spare to spend on this ;)
 
Bah, the first step should getting rid of spam audits in the low quality review queue. You aren't supposed to recommend deletion of spam, but to flag them.
6
The FP and LA queue's should be capable of dealing with spam.
 
7:15 PM
@cigien At least moderators don't need to be reviewed. Hmmmmm... no comment. ;-P
 
Yeah, that didn't come out right. I should have said "can't be" instead of "don't need to be" :p
 
How should this be handled? C++23 is not even a thing yet, right?
 
@oguzismail Up to you (I skipped that review, or a related one). But proposed standards are valid topics for discussion. In fact, long before C++20 was formally accepted, there were many posts on SO using it's proposals.
 
@oguzismail No, it's not, c++2b would be the appropriate tag. At the moment, there's only two questions with that tag, so don't worry about it, just skip the review. C++ SMEs will handle it soon enough.
 
Well I'm skipping too then, thanks
 
7:21 PM
@AdrianMole Before my time of course, so were they tagged with c++20 or c++2a?
 
@cigien C++20. That user (I've now improved/accepted their tag) has also been editing C++20-related tags to reflect the fact that it is now published.
 
@AdrianMole Oh, in that case the tag is fine. Besides, if it does get pushed to C++24 or whatever, it should be fairly trivial to just change the name of the tag. Thanks for reviewing the edit.
 
@cigien Maybe you'd care to check the 'improved' version. I'm not 100% happy with it, as it happens.
 
@AdrianMole it still has the tag wiki excerpt with an pending edit too...
if you feel like having a look...
 
@AdrianMole It seems ok. Why did you take out the wg21 link?
 
7:26 PM
@cigien I didn't (that I remember).
@Vickel I've already reviewed/approved that.
 
@AdrianMole I was referencing the "excerpt" here stackoverflow.com/review/suggested-edits/27935367
I don't touch it, not a SME
 
@AdrianMole No, you didn't. See the second para. It looks like they wanted a link, but didn't do it right in the first place.
 
@cigien Seems that the link was malformed (I didn't touch it - honest). I can't seem to make another edit to the tag wiki while there's a pending one on the excerpt.
@Vickel yes - And that linked page shows me that I have already reviewed/approved that wiki excerpt edit.
 
@AdrianMole looks like I'm loosing my "Sherlock Holmes" hat today :)
 
@Vickel If someone (not being a pipe) would add their approval to that, then you'll see both reviewers' names.
 
7:32 PM
^done, seems it was a pipe
 
@cigien ... and done (their URL was incomplete, so the markdown didn't parse it). check
 
@AdrianMole I think someone else should check since I fixed the link ;)
 
And it's nice to see that the new Draft Standard still has Cody's favourite line at the bottom of the first page: Note: this is an early draft. It’s known to be incomplet and incorrekt, and it has lots of bad
formatting.
 
Oops, I overwrote your edit with a bum link :p I rolled back to your revision. Thanks for fixing the link.
 
Careful ...
 
7:39 PM
Uh oh, am I going to get in trouble for stomping on your edits?
 
Nah - not yet.
 
I'll watch my step most carefully then ;)
Woah, why is the rep needed to edit tag wikis unilaterally so high?
 
@cigien How high?
 
Not sure, at least 10k apparently.
 
20K = "Trusted User"
 
7:45 PM
Huh. That seems rather high.
 
Maybe there were issues with copied content?
... but 'only' 5k to review tag edits.
 
No clue. I'll dig on meta, and see what pops up.
 
@cigien I'd rather pledge for: Create a separate review queue for tag wiki edits meta.stackexchange.com/questions/165254/…, the edit permission threshold seems very fine to me
 
I remember, just after I reached 5k, I was asked to review a suggested edit by a user with more rep than me. I found it so confusing that I took it to Meta.
 
@Vickel Thanks for the link :) I'll read that link as well as related ones before responding. I don't know much about it. That c++23 tag wiki was one of the few I've ever edited.
 
7:52 PM
@cigien it's just my opinion, since the tag wiki (plus excerpts) are very important information to Q/A, I feel we (reviewers) should have at least a filter option for both in that edit queue.
 
Incidentally, @cigien, did you notice the answer to that lamdba question that we undeleted and reopened? Looked good, to me (and I recognized the poster).
 
@AdrianMole I'd seen that it was reopened, but hadn't read the answer. Yeah, it's pretty good.
 
8:07 PM
@Makyen Obviously a better man than I, so maybe you should make the decision Second question stackoverflow.com/questions/65457243 comment 1 links to other account
 
@RiggsFolly Please don't make requests to investigate users in this room. If a moderator asks you to do that, that's fine, but your asking a moderator (and of course, any other user) to do that is not allowed I think.
@AdrianMole I also see that Scratte's gamely efforts on that post have been in vain so far.
 
8:28 PM
@cigien Maybe follow the conversation.
 
@RiggsFolly I read the message that you responded to, as well as the following one, where you're told quite clearly that you should raise a flag, and explain, if you suspect a user of sockpuppetry. I'm not sure what part of that message suggests that you should paste a link to one of the user's accounts/questions in chat. Of course, I could be misunderstanding your question, or the entire conversation, in which case I'd be happy to ask an RO for a ruling.
 
@cigien I can't force them though. I can only say that ThisIsTheLongestUserNameICouldThinkOfSoThatsWhatImGoingWithAndYouCantStopMe is not a really great idea even if it makes one feel good :)
^ Only I think it gets capped at 30 characters, so that's not going to work :D
 
@Scratte No, of course not. I quite like the way you put it to the user. I would disagree that their username has the same tone as the one you just used. It's not snarky in any way, or confrontational at all. I suspect if they had 20-30k in rep, no one would have a problem with their username :(
 
@cigien That is true. It's not in the same tone, but I think to some it comes off as the same tone, which is why I went with this one here :)
 
8:44 PM
@Scratte Yes, I can understand it conveying that tone to some people. That's really the issue with judging a question on anything but the technical aspects: whether the username looks snarky, or whether it looks like they're trying to avoid doing homework themselves. It can be difficult not to project motives/intentions on to the OP.
 
@cigien I admit.. I have been guilty of doing that once I think. It was the second "Donald Trump" spam post on the same day, and I decided to both spam flag and downvote it.
Knowing how it makes some moderators chuckle, I may start upvoting while spam flagging :)
 
@Scratte That's understandable. We're all human, well most of us at least ;) and it's hard to avoid reacting like that. I just wish more users would, like you just did, admit that they sometimes take actions that are based on gut feelings, even if it may not be "by the book". Instead, in most cases they'll point to some rule, and use some convoluted logic to justify their actions based on it.
 
@Zoe I think it should be asked at salesforce.stackexchange.com
 
@cigien I feel, that's the worst. As it's trying to remove any accountability.
I just wish there was a way to un-trust a trusted user without suspending them.
 
@Scratte Accountability is nice, but there's a deeper issue here. If people don't admit to the underlying reasons, it becomes much harder to actually address the root cause of the problem in any substantial way.
 
8:53 PM
Artificial intelligence: offloading gut feeling decisions to computers since ... well, not yet really
 
From very early on I spoke of having the option to opt-out of privileges. But was told that it's easier to not implement that, but make it the same for all. But I'm not understanding how it's difficult to implements an opt-out. I'd expect that the logic looks at one's reputation level, and could just as well look at at role instead. If that was implemented, then users could easily opt out and be opted out by someone more powerful.
 
@Scratte Ah, now that's a completely non-controversial meta that should take you less than 10 mins to write ;)
 
@Scratte too many lookups? UI challenges?
 
@Scratte Minor point: I don't think "being opted-out" is the best use of the term. Like "being volunteered" for something :)
 
@JohnDvorak How is that too many lookups? It's to a role table instead of a reputation table.
And it's not like it's not already implemented. moderators and community managers have a separate role.
@cigien I'm not sure called it something else helps though :) You've no longer been volunteered to close vote. It'll last for 6 months. Kindly take the time to think about your close voting patterns and when the 6 month is up and you've been volunteered again, please close vote with a new and enlightened pattern.. ?!?
 
8:59 PM
@Scratte No, I meant "opting" and "volunteering" both have the same problem in this case. It's not really something that others can do to you, you need to do it yourself :)
 
@cigien That is also true. The problem is that Stack is not a place to get life counseling. So if someone doesn't know themselves or hides their inner thoughts about their own motivations, they're still going to have to learn that somewhere else.
 
@dbc Are you searching for title:best or something like that? :p
 
@cigien I had imagined that at each privilege level one would have a new checkbox in one's profile for the new privilege. Then one could just check it off if not interested. So if someone doesn't want close votes but only flag, they could mark close/reopen voting off, or if one doesn't want to create new tags.. or not see deleted posts.
 
dbc
@cigien That's exactly right. Works like a charm.
 
@dbc Ah, cool :) Could you limit it to 5 requests here though? There's no rule about it, it's just a number that I've come up with for searches that yield a lot of closable posts.
 
dbc
9:06 PM
@cigien No problem. That's more than the upper limit of the number of off-topic posts I would find with that query in any given day.
 
Can moderators delete chat rooms? Or can they only "delete" them by merging rooms or does that leave a stub?
 
@dbc Perfect. So the number is not a terrible guess either. Thank you.
@Dharman OP translated. No idea if it's on-topic. Can you check please?
Now title:free I see :D
 
@cigien It might be on-topic if it were a real question. It's mistagged and doesn't contain any MCVE.
 
@Dharman Ok, could you leave that comment on the post?
 
dbc
There are lots of legitimate questions about freeing things so most of the questions turned up by that search are OK.
 
9:17 PM
Yeah I would think so. Those searches are fun for sure. I still do them, but I don't mention the results really, it didn't go very well the first couple of times :p
 
I find linkedin to be a little strange sometimes. It's sent me an email with a link to youtube with a music track that I've never heard before. And.. it's only had 77 views. Does that make mine nr. 78? :D
 
@Dharman Thanks for leaving a comment.
 
@Dharman sorry, they are impossible to find at best - someone changed the title of the one I was looking for so I can't find it any more.
 
Yeah, I know.
I have no idea what would be a better title
Stack Overflow is mostly to blame for not suggesting the right duplicates
 
I've bookmarked it so I don't lose it again.
 
9:48 PM
^ worth flagging as R/A or just vtc then vtd?
 
@Nick needs del votes now
 
@Nick The flag would probably be accepted, but it just looks terribly misguided, and not abusive really.
 
10:04 PM
@cigien Yeah, I thought better to give the benefit of the doubt
 
10:40 PM
@Braiam The other alternative is to enable flagging as a valid review response. IMO, doing that would be better than removing spam from being an audit. Removing spam as audits in the LQP queue has the implication that the queue will never see spam. While it's not common, there's nothing that guarantees that spam will not be in the LQP queue. Thus, the queue should be adapted to handle that possibility, rather than just continue the assumption that something that is possible won't happen.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Prefer closing those with a canonical if possible. At least saves the hassle of needing a request :p
 
@cigien Will do next time. I put that to my bookmarks list.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ Thanks. Also, if you feel a post must be a dupe, but you can't find a target, feel free to ping me. If I'm around, I'll take a look, I love dupe finding :)
 
@cigien Most of the time I use google to find one. Was just too lazy this time ;)
I'll get back on you if I need. Ty for the offer.
 
@πάνταῥεῖ You're welcome.
 
11:06 PM
@cigien I think Stack is considering giving reputation for finding duplicates.
 
@Scratte This has certainly been suggested before. Is there some new meta about this?
 
@cigien No.. it's from 2020, but if I remember correctly it got a status-reviews on it.
 
@Scratte It would be preferred that you don't do that. Upvotes give the user reputation points. If they get enough reputation points, then they are able to perform additional actions, which have a greater potential for causing harm. In addition, a considerable number of the detections which are used for spam are disabled at various higher reputation levels. So, overall, upvoting spam just for fun is harmful.
 
@Scratte I'm not finding anything from this year. Could you share the link if you find it?
 
@RiggsFolly Thank you for the information. As others have mentioned, this is something that's better communicated through flags. As a flag, it also allows any moderator to investigate it, rather than a single moderator.
 
11:14 PM
@cigien It's time to reward the duplicate finders.. and Argh! It got a status-deferred on August 5th.
Apparently a score of 684 just isn't enough..
 
@Scratte That's considerably more complex than just a lookup to see if the user has reputation over X. While it does introduce some additional options fro user action, it is largely similar to the user just choosing not to use the capability (not exactly the same, but largely similar).
 
@Makyen Not sure if I understand. The reputation will be gone when the post is deleted, no?
@Makyen It would give the option to remove commenting or close voting or delete voting without having to suspend the user completely.
 
@Scratte Yes. Moderators can delete chat rooms. There is no merge capability. Messages can be moved from one room into another, but that leaves indicators on the messages and separate move messages in both the source and destination rooms. A single move of messages can have at most 2048 chat messages. I have not checked to see if that 2048 message restriction exists for moderators.
@Scratte Yes, probably, but it's not guaranteed that the message will be deleted, or that they won't use the additional privileges while they have them. I'd note that spammers/trolls do sometimes get upvotes and they do use the additional privileges they have gained.
 
11:30 PM
@Makyen I see. At 11 reputation points (which I suspect they will not retain for long) they can "Post more links, answer protected questions and create community wiki posts" from 5-9 they can create spam posts on meta.
 
{biscuits}
 
@Makyen So would a moderator prefer a custom flag to effectively "merge" meaning move all messages to one room and then delete the empty rooms, or would they prefer to just delete the empty rooms?
@AdrianMole Yes.. you need a little more beer or fizz at this point, I think :D
 
@Scratte I know you're trying to think up various scenarios where having a bit of a laugh by upvoting a spam post would be OK, but it's not. I'm not going to give specific examples. I can say that this has definitely happened on multiple accounts in the last 24 hours.
 
@Scratte oops. I knew that one, but totally missed that it's as recent as this year :p
 
@AdrianMole But at 15 they can flag their own post saying "Dear moderator. I know I've been bad, but this is clear and focused spam. It's the best spam, I've ever done! :) And as per this message is really deserves all the upvotes it gets :)"
@Makyen I can then tell you that it was definitely not me :)
 
11:39 PM
@Scratte I think Makyen can probably figure that out if they want ;)
 
@cigien They cannot. I do not think developers would tell moderators who voted on which posts. They can see my vote if I also flagged the post though, but they do not have access to my votes. So if I didn't flag it, they need to ask a developer, if I understand it correctly.
 
@Scratte You're absolutely right. Moderators have access to so many things, that I completely forgot this is one of the few things they can't see. Looks like you're going to get away with it this time ;)
btw, I've been assuming you've been joking about this all along, but on the remote chance that you're not: please don't upvote spam, it's not helpful at all.
 
This is what I like?!? about hypotheticals. In two weeks, I'll be known as Scratte, the spam upvoter. Even if no one knows if I've ever actually done it, except Cody that once said they don't recall me ever having done it :)
 
@Scratte You either die a hero, or you live long enough to become the vilain.
 
@Scratte People will believe what they want to believe. Can't be helped much, so don't stress out about it.
 
This is exactly that kind of empathy we need to curate the site for content quality :-P
 
@Scratte confirmation bias? I then destroy the user ...
 
@Turing85 Yeah.. I don't do that. I don't have that button :(
I was actually searching for another message when I just came upon that one by chance. I assume BhargavRao told the truth to the same extend as I do when I mention upvoting spam :)
 

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