« first day (1219 days earlier)      last day (2615 days later) » 

5:08 PM
@Olaf That's a good point, and a logical consequence of not exercising the mental capabilities we have, assuming the person does not use the capabilities in some other manner (not thinking things through is, unfortunately, quite common).
 
user1593881
Not to mention the chronic fatigue.
 
user1593881
But a little stress and a little chron fat can be revealing.
 
@Makyen There is a new study about using navigation systems vs. navigating without: a complete area of the brain was unused using the navi-system. And I notice from ppl who frequently use them to be lost when navigating through a city with only a look at the map before they start. Personally, I use a navi mostly to show the map/current position or if I'm in a hurry.
Even some decades ago, people could cite epic poems, ballads, etc. out of their memory. Today most people (and the younger the more) are lost without Internet/Wikipedia and - of course - google.
 
@JanDvorak Worse actually: The IQ has dropped permanently by 30 (or never risen by those 30 pts), but the internet/WP compensates for this drop. Imagine what if we had these 30% plus WP?
 
5:21 PM
Well, at least it lets me keep my own rating unusually high
 
@Olaf Yes, the reality is that if you don't use skills, be they physical or mental, they will atrophy, or never develop, particularly during your developmental years. Life adapts. There is no biological reason to develop, or keep in top condition, unused capabilities which are, presumably, not required for survival.
 
And things will become worse with Siri, etc. Give some decades and no one will be able to develop such systems or repair them when damaged.
 
Plot hook
 
@Makyen Problem is intelligence (not the NSA kind!) and abstractions are our only advantage over animals. So either we extinct them before our intelligence drops too low or we will be extinct.
 
Our biggest advantage is the tech we developed
 
5:24 PM
Film-Tip: Idiocracy (2006)
@JanDvorak And we were able to because of the two factors. If they diminish, we will not have tech.
 
unless we develop self-developing machines first
we're not that far
 
@JanDvorak That would make us slaves of the machines. Sure you can call it "live streaming viewer", but that's what it boils down to.
 
@Olaf I'd be fine with being a pet
 
@Olaf Some few will. There will continue to be those few individuals who are just wired such that they enjoy figuring out how things work, in detail. Even for those few, the actual investigation skills to determine new knowledge will be harder to acquire. For the general population those skills will atrophy, significantly. You are correct that this will decrease the number of people that even begin the process of learning for themselves.
 
@JanDvorak So being told when to eat, when to sleep, when to sh*? No thanks!
 
5:28 PM
@JanDvorak :-)
 
@Olaf aren't we already?
By computers, even. I doubt managers pin name cards to grid cells on a cork board anymore.
 
@Makyen Yes, that is a problem. As it seems now, learning the foundations of computer technique (digital electronics, basic operation of a CPU,e tc.) are already harder to learn by oneself than in the 70/80ies when there were magazines teaching these basics (US-"Byte" or German mc, Funkschau or Elrad/c't come into mind). Today they show how to fiddle with Windows or setup the Arduino IDE.
@JanDvorak Not necessarily. But it is getting harder to resist. I was never one to go the easy way.
 
@JanDvorak Unclear. Microsoft does have a C++ compiler.
 
@Olaf Learning electronics has (almost) always been harder than learning to operate, or program, computers. Learning electronics rapidly runs into physically investigating what you're working on. This requires much more special-purpose infrastructure than operating a computer or programming, which significantly increases the barrier to entry. For operating/programming a computer, the physical requirement is just having a computer, which is, usually, already a requirement for other things.
 
5:44 PM
Any Python folks here atm?
 
@BaummitAugen Nope
 
@Makyen The foundations include programming. Those magazines also included programming courses whioch concentrated on the basics, not how to operate the IDE. But knowing how a CPU works (i.e. down to the gate-level) very much helps understand how programming works, too. Many C questions here would be answerable with this information (just see the bitop questions).
 
I can hiss at you if you wish
 
@BhargavRao :(
@BhargavRao You already saw my implicit question in sobotics I guess. :)
 
@Olaf do you know how a CPU works? I know how parts of early CPUs worked, but the full architecture is probably a trade secret
I'd be really surprised to find a ripple adder in a modern CPU
 
5:47 PM
@BaummitAugen I'll check in a bit.
 
Building electronics today indeed requires more knowledge. Back in the 70ies/80ies or even early 90ies, you could solder a homecomputer like VIC64, even Atari-ST or Amiga at home with a wireboard from off-the-shelf parts.
 
@BhargavRao Thanks.
 
@JanDvorak Yes! I e.g. interfaced own FPGA logic with PCIe to a PC, I know quite exactly how PCIe works. Of course I cannot tell all features an - say - Ryken has (because AMD would not tell), but I could say how a specific feature could be implemented and how that works together.
 
Nice. What prediction algorithm would you use in a general purpose CPU of your design?
 
@JanDvorak What do you mean? Branch-prediction? Read-prediction? Code-fetch prediction? Register utilisation prediction? Weather forecast prediction?
 
5:51 PM
@Olaf You still can, for the same level of functionality. In fact, doing so is easier, as much of the functionality is integrated into fewer chips. However, the amount of functionality that is considered the baseline for a "homecomputer" has increased dramatically, along with the complexity needed to achieve it. The amount of engineering effort that is needed for the entire design has grown by orders of magnitude.
 
Branch prediction, sorry
is register utilisation prediction something CPUs do (internally)?
 
@Makyen No,. you cannot! Ever tried to solder a BGA with a soldering iron? Or a 0.3mm pitch IC, a QFN? 10005 chip-resistors? Impedance matching on a wireboard?
Point is, the old Homecomputers could work things with their highly optimised (from a today viewpoint) software werewell usable. Today, if you don't have a some GHz CPU, some GiB RAM, large HDD, the system will not even boot. So, the basics to understand how it works is hidden by a pile of software and hardware layers. For instance, PCIe is more of a network system plus protocol than a typical bus system.
 
It's because hardware is cheaper than programmers
especially if it's your customers buying the hardware
 
@JanDvorak I have no idea if that is used in actual CPUs. But it could well be. But considering random-access times for RAM have not much enhanced in the last 20 years, read(-pattern) prediction would be an interesting thing.
You lost the focus. It is about learning how computers work, not reasoning why something is like it is. I.e. mastering the machine, not being mastered by the machine.
 
So that the CPUs could prefetch RAM pages before the code requests them? That would be nice indeed.
 
6:02 PM
@JanDvorak Thast's already done, see prefetch instructions. But this is onyl reasonable for larger amounts and requires the compiler/programmer to insert these instructions.
But PCs and servers are just a very small part of the computer market (counting items sold).
 
Yeah, I don't expect coders to even have access to these instructions
 
I have a question for anyone here who is a contractor through contracting company
 
@JanDvorak YOu are wrong. Of course you have access to them using the right language. C, C++ or assembly provide full access to machine instructions. For the former mostly by intrinsics/built-in or inline-assembly at least.
 
I wouldn't call that "the right language". When making a database engine, probably. When making a web server, not really.
 
@Olaf Yes, to all of the above. I've successfully done rework by hand, on TAB packaged chips (I'd have to look up the actual pin pitch of the chips I was working on, but required magnification to differentiate pins), with tools from local stores, on the road in another country. It is vastly easier with the correct tools, but it can be done by hand. With hand-tools which are significantly above what is commonly available at local stores, I've built, or done rework on all of the above.
 
6:05 PM
I'd like to know how to prefetch an array in Ruby.
 
what do you mean by prefetch
 
@TylerH load to CPU before use, so that it doesn't have to wait for RAM
 
@JanDvorak You are at the very wrong level of programming for such a discussion. This is about software at the lowest levels of the machine. A database and webserver/etc. have very different requirements than what we are talking about. prefetch etc. are at a very low abstraction layer. I would not use this in Python either, but for low level projects, there are such requirements. More for embedded, which is the vast majority of CPUs.
 
@JanDvorak I don't understand how that would work, I guess. I'm not aware of "loading stuff into the CPU" to 'avoid waiting for RAM '
 
@TylerH Fetch information before it is needed, but - if possible - without interfering with current operation. The latter alone is already a challenge.
 
6:10 PM
Then yeah, you can write a bit of assembly or use the equivalent wrappers in C++ if you want to.
 
you mean like load stuff into a register?
 
into the cache
 
@Olaf I'm familiar with prefetching stuff but only in the web
I wasn't aware you could 'prefetch' stuff at the CPU level
 
@Olaf We appear to be arguing along the same lines. We both argued that building a modern "homecomputer" with current capabilities requires infrastructure that is not commonly available. However, if your goal is the same level of computing capability as a "homecomputer" had in the generation which you gave as an example, it is doable, by hand, today, with less effort, due to the integration of that functionality into fewer chips, or even a single chip.
 
It's the same thing, except for a different pair of memories
 
6:11 PM
@TylerH That would be the easiest form (and the least automatic).
 
@TylerH You have cache on your CPU, this is separate from RAM. When you prefetch you load that data into the cache before the CPU needs it so it does not have to wait for main memory.
 
@Olaf it also jams the pipeline, I'd guess
 
Hello!
 
@TylerH Your CPU does that for a multitude of information.
 
Hiya Nobody
 
6:14 PM
I'm tempted to grind 125 rep on Physics just to get the ability to downvote the ... stuff ... that gets posted there
 
@Olaf I guess it is totally obvious when I think about the existence of the L1 - L2 - L3 caches on CPUs
I forgot they existed for a minute
That means I haven't gone CPU shopping in way too long :-(
 
@JanDvorak That all would be subject of years of learning and constantly updating. That's exactly what I mean with "it is problematic to learn the fundamentals today. It is all burried under heaps of piles of bunches of layers in hardware, OS, abstractions, programming languages, abstractions, applications, toolkits, interpreters, etc. If you want to see what a CPU can accomplish without all this, have a look at the retro-computing competitions.
It is astounishing what even 8 bit CPUs can accomplish.
 
Making Mario was nuts.
 
my friend made the first working 16-bit ALU in minecraft
 
Even today you have games that stretch the limits of the hardware, don't you?
 
6:17 PM
and got a job for it
 
@TylerH I'm not talkign about the caches. They are actually subsystems on their own. Similar for PCIe bridges, the DRAM controller, etc. There#s prefetching and buffering everywhere in a PC.
 
of course folks have gone way farther than that
@Olaf Stop, you're going to turn me into a microprocessor engineer :-P
 
if you make something in minecraft
 
@JanDvorak Not if you use OpenGL or DX or those bloat NV/AMD drivers or an OS.
 
is it by hand
or would you edit it in like the map save file
like did he lay out a bunch of bits
 
6:18 PM
@Olaf does PS4 even have an operating system?
 
yes
Sony's consoles all have operating systems, they've had them for ages.
 
@Compass he manually made this
 
In fact there was a settlement because the PS3, once upon a time, supported running Linux
 
but you can do mass editing in applications now
he used a world editing thing to give him a big open chunk of land
since this was before superflat IIRC
it was like 6 years ago
 
I hope he at least placed the CPU blocks by hand
For the next challenge, do that in the survival mode
 
6:21 PM
he actually had to keep killing the animals because they would walk over some plates or something and switch half the signal
before he redesigned it
let me find his final thing
 
@Makyen Point is, it is not doable by hand if you use modern chips. Heck, even the smallest MCUs I use have much more processing power and often even RAM and Flash than these homecomputers. Problem is, you cannout hand-work these chips that easy, because they use higher frequencies for the busses and have casings which are not suitable for the beginner. Also the high integration is exactly the problem for learning how it works! How does address-decoding work? How a sequencer for DRAM access?
You cannot watch the signals with a simple scope.
@Machavity They canceled support for it some years ago. Seems it was more of a marketing gag. (Need I say I don't like consoles?)
 
apparnetly the final version was in survival
 
@TylerH That was your friend? That's awesome!
 
@TylerH So much about open to learning ;-)
 
Member for 7 years, posted for the first time today stackapps.com/a/7275/42239 :D
 
6:26 PM
@Compass It is not the same as soldering your own computer and make the first programs run! If you have a new board built yourself and see the first time your progam code blinking an LED. Much more satisfying than anything running on the PC.
 
I meant hand-made as in walking around minecraft
its still actual work, though not soldering
 
Two answers already and just one CV. Are people out of votes already?
 
@JanDvorak I'm not; I just wasn't paying attention :p
 
@NobodyNada yep, grade school friend up through high school graduation
 
wow
 
6:29 PM
@Compass It lacks the physical experience. Talk to a psychologist; it is one of our most basic senses to touch something for real. There is a reason "to understand" is "to grasp" something (it has the same dualism in German, btw.).
 
he was a Junior at UGA when that was made
he got several job offers based on that video and took one of them in Atlanta
 
@Olaf using a mouse doesn't count? :p
 
both our moms were teachers at the same school so we were close friends
 
@NobodyNada TO shorten this: Try both!
 
@BhargavRao who is that guy, he has a funny avatar
just a head? silly
@JanDvorak props to him for unintentionally making an automated CV request have a bold, italicized title in our chatroom
 
6:32 PM
@TylerH Ikr :D
 
@TylerH unintentionally? He may have tried to emphasize the title
 
@NobodyNada yeah he intentionally tried to emphasize the title, that's clear to me, but not in chat :-)
Just on the main site
 
He pretty much did
 
Thank goodness # doesn't work in titles
 
haha
SUPER BIG FONT
 
6:32 PM
Even if it is an Arduino, you will experience the difference. Although I don't talk about building a CPU from logic parts (which would be an interesting project). IIRC, there is a 6502 discrete remake which has LEDs at every signal. So you can see what's in the registers, how they switch, etc.
 
I'd rather use Logisim
 
@Olaf whoa, cool!
 
@Olaf I think we are in agreement on almost all of this. I think that the only thing we are arguing on opposite sides on is: is it possible to do something by hand, today, which could approximate the what a "homecomputer" was, back in the day. We both certainly agree that to do something approximating a current machine requires dramatically more infrastructure than is readily available (few people personally have even a basic logic analyzer).
 
@Olaf wow, thats kinda cool, actually.
http://monster6502.com/
 
We both agree that having the equipment and putting the parts together is something that significantly aids learning.
 
6:36 PM
@Makyen You cannot get most of the chips anymore (or they cost a fortune). VIC64 are maintained using canibalism: one is decomposed to fix the other. Actually the sound-chips of the VIC are stilll very requested; IIRC, there is a rebuild with FPGA or DSP or something which should ressemble the sound. I don't support this: it is not only the sound, but also knowing how it was produced which makes the atmosphere.
 
@Olaf what if I used VR
 
to physically stick every torch
 
@MattClark Yes, that's it. Thanks for finding.
 
maybe add touch feedback
is that physical
 
6:37 PM
What if I did it in the Matrix?
 
Only if you use the omnitread instead of "walking" by pointing and clicking a button to teleport
that would be impressive
 
@Compass sure
 
Oh that would be miserable
and motion sick
 
as physical stimuli could very well just be simulated by our brain anyway
 
yeah what if it's sword art online
is that physical?
using a direct neural link =w=
 
6:39 PM
What if I use my own brain's built-in VR capabilities?
 
What if you're an extension of my brain.
 
@Makyen Well, I used a 230V soldering iron from a local electronics store to build my first computer. Etched the PCBs myself (with a friend). Today I have to use a hot-air blower plus a costly (ca. 1000€) Weller station for my devices. Plus a microscope for the more critical parts (and due to my eyes, but not only). Most parts I let manufacture, including the PCB, because you cnnot etch multilayer at home. So the hurdles have increased. Plus: it is getting harder to by simple TTL logic in DIP.
 
You used a soldering iron?
Jesus.
 
I misread "microscope" as "microphone" and was wondering how that could be useful
 
My current level of circuit building is LED, battery, and switch.
 
6:41 PM
That's where you gotta start ;)
If there are any RadioShack's near you, go pick up an Arduino starter kit or something :p
 
@Compass: What if you stop joking? I was serious, but it appears it is time to stop.
 
@Olaf Note that I'm not arguing for duplication, although that is possible, I'm arguing for approximating. Doing so could, at this point, include using a FPGA, as that is a common technology at this point (I've got a significant number just sitting around here).
 
@JanDvorak I used a speaker to detect the CPU clock is running for my first projects (I used a divider to get to audible range).
 
Using Cyclones? everyones first FPGA :p
 
I'm dead serious.
i.imgur.com/tQeA5fJ.jpg this is the product of my life in cirtcuitry.
 
6:44 PM
@Makyen Of course I use FPGAs and modern MCUs (like the AMRv7M), but we were talking about learning and that is a different subject.
 
I don't think I've soldered anything more complex than a few LEDs or other things.
 
@Compass nice balls.
What are?
 
They're replicas of seeker mines from The Division.
I'm a better painter than I am a... electronicician?
 
Ahh, nice nice.
 
Electrician!
That's the word.
 
6:48 PM
@MattClark And then you fight with the IDE and the libraries, not really learing how the UART works, how to use it creatively for your own protocols (because you never get the idea), because you don't bother reading the datasheets - just watch the embeded and C questions. Most of ideas for projects (own and customer's) come from reading datasheets and seeing what the hardware provides. That makes a good engineer actually.
 
No repro, IE 6 vista — Will 8 mins ago
.......he's kidding, right?
 
@Olaf I believe we've been in general agreement wrt. learning from our first statements on this subject. Electronics is harder, if for no other reason than the infrastructure required to go from concept to functionality is significantly more special purpose, and costly, than it is for programming a commonly available homecomputer.
 
@Compass An Electrician is someone set up your electical installation at home. An electrical engineer (that's what I am) is someone who knows how electronics work. The better of us can develop electronics themselves. (yes, I know EEs who cannot even develop a simple Arduino board without mayor problems).
 
@NobodyNada yes he regularly trolls users
 
@BhargavRao So is this meta good enough to get the synonyms?
 
6:50 PM
You can't even get IE6 on Vista. It comes shipped with IE7
 
@NobodyNada I would hope so but I do know tunkai is still rocking Vista as work.
 
@NathanOliver where is he btw
haven't seen him all day
he should be fired for not being on slack 24/7
 
@Makyen I thought I pointed out that it has not been costly years before. That's the problem today for beginners. For programmers, there are too many layers between the hardware and the application. Not only it costs performance, but also it hides the functionality. A lot of those layers don't actually provide a benefit.
 
@TylerH 35 hour French work week. He's off, yo :P
 
@Olaf there was a fellow EE in my class who did his first Arduino LED blink program senior year.. shudders
 
6:52 PM
@TylerH I think he went.. outside
 
@Machavity Oh yeah, I wanted to speak to you about it yesterday, but I got caught up in the mod queue (the flags sky rocketed). The answer there stating not to go for it, has been quite upvoted. So I'm left confused there. I thought of waiting for longer, but I am not sure.
 
@NathanOliver oh no...we'll have to send out a rescue party
 
@NobodyNada I already have a line in the water ;)
 
@MattClark I blinked by first LEDs at age 12 or so. Without programming, just digital gates.
 
@BhargavRao Yeah, it went sideways when they opened that burnination request. I think Shog stuck a fork in that one
 
6:54 PM
@Machavity does not compute
error
 
@Olaf my first blink per se, was on a BASIC Stamp, back when those were popular.
 
!8ball should I buy an arduino?
 
Then we moved into gates and FPGAs in college.
 
@MattClark That was PIC based: years after my first own computer: 6502, 2.5KiB RAM, 2KiB EPROM, hex heyboard and 7-seg LEDs out. The LEDs had their own refresh-logic with 16 nibbles(!) RAM, all with TTL (except CPU, RAM, EPROM and GPIO chips).
 
Now I am super high level, not even touching circuitry :(
Yay for RaspberryPi's and home projects.
 
6:56 PM
@Machavity Yeah, I saw that. Your answer there was perfect. But I'm somewhat confused, so I'll wait a bit more, or let another mod decide. :)
 
@Olaf that sounds amazing.
ahaha
 
@BhargavRao K. I'm in no rush :)
 
@MattClark I need to work with ral HW from time to time. Keeps me grounded.
@MattClark Back then it was. I was just 15/16. And it cost all my pocket money (which was quite short even for that time).
 
@Olaf It's a relative cost. It's always required at least some specialized tools (even just a soldering iron, and multimeter) and parts. For programming, the infrastructure costs (a normal "homecomputer") are not considered as a separate necessary expense, as it has usually already been purchased due to other requirements. Part of the problem (difference between then and now) is that the complexity of the projects that people have as their goal has dramatically increased.
 
Hah, grounded. I see what you did there.
 
7:00 PM
@Makyen IIRC, we talked about learning. This is aproject on it's own. "Useful" projects should come after that. Today ppl have a specific application in mind. It's fine, but that way they don't learn the basics. That's what I'm concerned about.
 
I started with hardware before software, and I think that helped to give me a much stronger foundation - as learning software later, you can really relate to how it functions at the low level.

Starting with software, and moving into hardware, I have seen people have a much harder time trying to grasp the concepts and actual electron flow.

Lots of time and math required, where with programming, you know if it works or not pretty instantaniously.
 
@Olaf I've made many of the same arguments, in other conversations, regarding too many layers, costing performance, etc. While some of the abstraction has benefits, the lack of thinking about what is really going on, even about the next layer down, does, often, have negative consequences to overall functionality.
 
@TylerH corporate environment. Can't do that. — Nelson Teixeira 1 min ago
I'm surprised there are corporate environments out there w/ Linux for user desktops
especially ones that also don't let their users install updates to software like web browsers
 
it's called progress
 
The city of Munich is almost entirely Linux.
 
7:02 PM
I would think if a company trusted its users with Linux workstations, that it would also trust them with the ability to install software
 
Currently working for a large corporation as a dev, I run both Ubuntu and OSX, both with sudo. I would leave without it.
 
It's kind of like giving someone the keys to your Aston Martin Vanquish or DB9 and saying 'but you aren't allowed to drive it on the highway'
 
could be a bunch of thin clients
 
Yeah, saw that. Not sure if it will happen or not.
Also, apparently, Russia is working on getting rid of all things Microsoft in favor of home grown solutions.
 
7:04 PM
@MattClark Exactly my point. I also started that way. And in some way, I need both worlds. or an EE, I have quite a broad SW knowledge (including modern and abstract programming concepts), for a SWdev, I know about the hardware, can utilise it's features and know its limits. That way I can provide the best service to customers. Although some colleagues are irritated if you talk in abstract programming terms for low-level programming projects.
 
@NathanOliver does that include the OS?
 
@JanDvorak I'm not sure. I think it was just for productivity stuff.
 
@Olaf For a considerable number people, probably the majority, learning is a process necessary to obtain a goal, not a goal in and of itself. In other words, they start with an idea that they want to accomplish something and learn what is necessary to do so. Learning, just to learn, and then saying "what can I accomplish now", is significantly more rare, outside a formal educational environment. (Obviously, even after learning the basics, you still, often, need to learn more.)
 
@Olaf I can completely relate ( though you have much more extensive hardware then I )
 
7:07 PM
@Machavity Yes, that was definitively no technical decision or based on obvious reasons. Coincidentally MS moved their German HQ from a city near Munich to Munic few years ago (when the discussion about remograting to MS started). FYI: In Germany cities get part of the taxes from companies resident in those cities. Honi soit, qui mal y pense (ironic interpretation).
@NathanOliver It's about public IT and does include the OS. A similar way goes China. Well, some people suspect there were some suitcases found around the Munich town-hall.
@Makyen Not really. Curiosity is actually what brought primates (including humans) that far. It is a goal by itself.
 
@Henders you're now privileged in SOCVR for Smokey, enjoy and be careful. Please go over this if you haven't already. Good luck!
 
@Makyen Problem is people are not taught to be curious at school, but to be spoon-fed. One reason could be that curios ppl tend to question everything, including the strcture of a society. That could lead to a better world for most, but not all
 
@Olaf the thing that annoys me most in the world, is the people who just see something abnormal, and accept that it is that way, for whatever reason.

I have the mindset that if I don't understand something, I will stop at nothing to dig down to the core; biggest pet peeve is when I ask someone a question and the response is 'you don;t need to know that' or 'dont' worry about it' - I am asking because I _want_ to learn it.
 
@rene Thanks so much, that's great! I'll read that of course and the feedback guide I read earlier today anyway :D
 
7:20 PM
remember, you lose a finger for each incorrect feedback ;)
 
@NathanOliver What are you typing with?
 
@M.A.R. The human hands tuna lent me.
 
Luckily for me, I don't have fingers.
 
@NathanOliver I really like my fingers... :/
 
Then don't mess up ;)
 
7:23 PM
@Henders Wow, really?
 
they look tasty
 
@NathanOliver The problems doubled. What is Tuna typing with?
 
@M.A.R. He's not typing, he's.. outside.
 
Dead? :O
 
!!/amiprivileged
 
7:24 PM
@Henders Yes, you are a privileged user.
 
Who ate the fish? I like fish :(
 
:O
 
@M.A.R. Well, he is swimming with the fishes ;)
 
What triggers /\ those?
 
Triggers what? The cv-pls?
 
7:29 PM
Yeah
 
We post these when we see something that really should be closed
 
We have a user script that posts them here if you click on it on a question
No auto trigger
 
Ahhh, fancy scripts.
 
@MattClark Being told not to worry makes me worry even more. But ther is one worst statement: "that's the way we do it". "It's our company's standard procedure/etc." is much the same. I sometimes hear it when I point out some requirements or proceedings are nonsense. It effectively say the company has a nonsense standard.
 
cloned
Recently moved to a new company, and I have been getting a lot of that :/
Doing the best I can learning it all myself. ;D
 
7:32 PM
\o
 
May have already outpaced the person I am supposed to be shadowing.
 
the hunter became hunted?
 
lol. Now I picture that as @compass
 
Is it safe for work
 
7:34 PM
Yeah
 
wow
I really let myself go from my 2d toast days
 
@Olaf Yes, curiosity is not taught in school. I'd expect that is both a symptom and a cause.
 
user3956566
how come we can't flag or edit new questions to old answers within that page, I'm having to click on the link
 
user1593881
True.
 
user3956566
@FireAlarm cls pls
 
7:39 PM
This invisible edits on meta
riveting
 
user1593881
How can anyone devote their intellect to a brain dead code monkey position is beyond me.
 
Your new job?
 
user1593881
The very same.
 
oh no.
 
Unicode is why we can't have nice things — bluefeet ♦ 2 days ago
 
7:43 PM
Unicode is a 💩. — canon 4 hours ago
 
user1593881
Bloody hell, how I got lured in into this c**p is beyond me.
 
c-pp? Yeah, it's not a good language
 
lol
 
user1593881
Haha. Not really.
 
shots fired
@RawN They bait and switch you?
 
7:44 PM
@NathanOliver /me tries to think of a pun before Nathan notices his typo
 
^ that's what i was trying to prevent ;)
 
sigh... :p
 
:36297141 no, he loaded his gun with a load of freshly hatched plant life
 
heh
 
The rene gun
 
user1593881
7:45 PM
@NathanOliver Close. Turns out there's nothing to switch to. The whole ordeal is a brain dead waste of time.
 
user3956566
 
neop
 
@YvetteColomb Nope, OT SU
 
user3956566
thought so
 
user3956566
thanks
 
7:46 PM
2B
 
@RawN That really stinks. This is place you had to move for right?
 
@RawN On the upside, perhaps you'll have something to sell The Daily WTF
 
user1593881
@NathanOliver Yes. What a waste of time this turned out to be.
 
@Machavity yeah, right. They are really running low on content ...
 
Are you at least in a place that offers other jobs or would you have to move again?
 
user1593881
7:48 PM
@Machavity Haha, perhaps.
 
IE 11's latest patch broke my code.
Can't test it without waiting for the patch to clear IT
 
user1593881
@NathanOliver Seems like I will need to move to at least Western Europe because there is no C++ worth a while job on the opposite side.
 
@Compass file a bug at MS?
 
@RawN Bummer. I hear France is nice. Or if you like beer there is the Netherlands/Denmark/Germany.
 
@NathanOliver Belgium .... for beer that is
 
7:52 PM
this bug broke Microsoft CRM
 
Oh yeah, I can't believe I forgot about Belgium.
 
The level of effort is not worth it.
We'll fix it faster than they will I think.
 
user1593881
Perhaps that last one was not SFW.
 
@Compass That implies IE11 worked at some point in the past
 
user1593881
@NathanOliver Gave up on booze and smokes. Almost a year now. My concern is I will loose interest for cpp theory on my current banana eating job.
 
7:56 PM
@NathanOliver We have good wine, too.
 
I get that. You want to be challenged. Sometimes you have to pay your dues as a code monkey but if there is no room for advancement then moving is a option
 
user1593881
My thoughts exactly.
 
8:19 PM
afk
 
8:35 PM
Any java hammerers active?
 
> No need to be sorry, unlike main, users on meta are friendly ... credits
2
It doesn't need to become more crazy than that ^ ;)
 
@rene that's new
 
It's a trap
 
It might be, yes
 
9:01 PM
^^ closed.
 
I was going through the [cv-pls] requests: this "no MCVE" request is for a question that is only a dump of a list of errors & needs 2 CV. I mention this because I know people are less likely to investigate "no MCVE" and "Duplicate" requests, as such requests often require domain knowledge. This one should be obviously "no MCVE".
 
Hmm, the archiver script picks-up pretty much anything now ...
@Makyen I'm not sure which regex matched this but the archiver script seems it is a bit to eager to move stuff. I'll look into that.
 
@rene I'm fine with it being archived. It was specifically about a [cv-pls]that was now closed. It was probably picked up due to having [cv-pls] text and a question link to a closed question. I haven't looked at the archiver script, but the Unclosed Review script uses a RegExp to scan the HTML, as opposed to looking for actual tags and question links. That RegExp would have picked it up. Additional: Feel free to archive my most recent comment regarding a now archived post ("^^ ...").
 
9:42 PM
@NobodyNada FA reported the same question twice
 
@Fire location
 
@NobodyNada I'm running on FelixSFD/MacBook
 
@rene ...weird. It wasn't even edited or anything
 
just a glitch then, np
 

« first day (1219 days earlier)      last day (2615 days later) »