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8:00 PM
@user0042 W2k was good, compared with what came before. I was stunned when the very first W2k install I ever used was still up after 6 months. Compared with W95, W98 and [I dare not speak it's two-letter name], it was a revelation.
 
@Compass nah, if the interview recommends specific dress for the interview, wear what it says
 
@Olaf Good point. But you're a freelancer.
@MartinJames I'm pretty concerned that there are a lot of ATM's out in the field running on these OSs.
 
@user0042 Hmm, yes, but I'd waear that for a permanet job, too. Unless they are ton apart or dirty/stink, if they judge me by the clothes, not my qualification, they can me crosswise.
 
@Olaf so really you just wouldn't apply for a job at a place that has dress requirements
 
@Olaf Exactly. That's what developers are supposed to wear. If the jeans etc. are clean except for a couple obviously-recent pizza-stains, even better..
 
8:03 PM
@Olaf I did so for my last job interview as well. But I'm good friends with the CIO. Sometimes if you don't know who you'll meet, it's a question of respect. Anyways if they tell you in the invitation you should wear normal clothes, I'd just do so.
 
@TylerH Whyx in the world should I wear a dress? Is that some gender-correctness thingie? I prefer trowsers.
 
@TylerH Well a tutu and ballet-shoes requirement is a deal-breaker for me.
 
@Olaf I can't tell if you really don't get it or if you're being intentionally obtuse
'dress' has many definitions in English; here it means "how you are dressed"
 
@TylerH So who is obtuse? ;-)
 
it doesn't mean "a dress"
@Olaf you, usually
"dress requirements" refers to requirements on how you should dress
 
8:05 PM
@TylerH O strongly doubt that - usually
 
start an answer post with "And of course, cookies are to blame again, because cookies are great and amazing." My day is complete
 
I wor only shorts at work for two weeks. The a/c was bust and the lab temp went up to 44C. Nobody believed me about the temp, (night shift panic), until they put a thermograph above the racks.
 
Anyway, my point is your comment probably isn't very useful for Compass because the place he is applying for said to wear business casual, so at the very least he needs to meet that level
if he walks in wearing jeans and a t shirt, they're going to say 'welcome, you are in the wrong place, bye'
it's also not what he was asking
@gunr2171 now I want some cookies
 
Ron
I agree with @TylerH. Play it safe cat.
 
@TylerH Do tell. I think I was clear what I'd wear and what They can me if they don't like it. Luckily people here are less distractable by pretty skirts. (Hmm, we might bargian about wearin a kilt, must be funny in winter).
 
8:08 PM
It's difficult. 'Business casual' for a developer IS jeans and a t.
What I usualy do is jeans/t, but CARRY a smart jacket, (ie. I'm here to do development, but I can be smart if I have to meet with customers etc).
 
@TylerH Thanks for tutoring me. You are always almost welcome :-)
 
Ron
On interviews I look through the window and wonder will there ever be any serious C++ development in SE Europe.
 
@MartinJames And I'd probably not wear one of my typical nerdy tees but something neutral/decent :)
 
@user0042 Oh yes - plain, (ie. I will not obviously offend anyone).
 
@MartinJames The customers I meet are typically dressed in t/jeans, too. Btw, I didn't mention blue jeans. There are jeans which don't look the like. And tshirts can have long sleves, too. Or maybe a polo-shirt.
But if they want some fashion model, they should hire one.
 
8:13 PM
@Olaf Yup - fine, especially if it's cold while walking from car park to security.
 
@MartinJames So I'd have no chance with my "F U" tshirt?
 
@MartinJames Something like this (one of my favs) surely could be taken offensive by some people :D
 
@Olaf If it's a development lab, it's kinda assumed that you will be expected to occasionally grup round under desks/floors, struggling with network cables and routers. No point in an Armani overall.
 
@user0042 I thought that was clear.
 
@Olaf Compass was asking whether he should wear business casual or business formal to an interview that specified he should wear business casual. He wasn't asking what you personally would wear to some random interview at a different company
 
Ron
8:16 PM
@MartinJames Armani embedded, autumn/winter collection.
 
@TylerH "that specified he should wear business casual" - looks like the answer is already in the question. I was serious, though.
 
@TylerH The worst is that such recommendations re. dress don't usually come from the employer/client. They are often dreamed up by some near-useless agency who have no clue about what they are pimp.. umm factoring.
 
In my business, proper jeans and tshirts are typical for the business, so it is fine. Maybe add a pullover, but that's fine. Did it come into your mind there are cultural diferences, what business is? Once more: the US are not the navel of the world - not yet.
 
@Olaf Navel.. I was thinking a... another body part.
 
@MartinJames Me too, but "di**" might have been considered inappropriate. (I do try to care about the feeling of certain readers).
 
8:21 PM
@Olaf Better try this one, it would be able to create a base of confidence :P
 
@Olaf Compass doesn't need a diet :(
 
@Olaf There are very few snowflakes in here and, hopefully, the RO/mods are asleep... (hello..?).
 
@user0042 Nice one, is it available in 6XL, too?
 
@Olaf Mine fits well, I've got it in 2XL I believe.
 
@MartinJames Oh, c'mon, it's getting winter, no complaining about snowflakes dropping.
@user0042 Hmm, maybe not for the first meeting, but once the contract is signed, it might simplify communication - or not.
 
8:25 PM
@Olaf Reminds me, not checked the weather in meta lately.
 
@Olaf Well, wait for "Lehrer Lämpel" :D
 
i wear American size L/ European size G shirts
granted as a cat, these are robes
 
@MartinJames Well, I completely missed the storm last week in north Germany. Too bad, I like this sort of weather.
 
@Compass you mean French size? We call 'em L here
 
@Olaf Well, there are a couple geographic differences - we get the gulf stream, you get Siberia.
 
8:27 PM
@MartinJames Yep, but freedom of dress is still a very new concept in business
 
@Compass Never heared about size "G" (seriously). But I heared rumours US-XL is not the same as european XL.
 
It's not a real freedom until they let me wear a skirt. I mean... cotton kilt.
 
Ron
What are XL and XXL? Horrible way to represent an unsigned char.
 
@Olaf Well, no. In US, A380 can only carry 160 pax.
 
@TylerH It is fairly older than you are.
 
8:30 PM
@Olaf Not really, it's still not commonplace today
 
@JohnDvorak I don't mind. As long you wear underpants (no boxers), of course.
@TylerH Navel … remember?
 
Sure, no problem
 
@Justin Oh FFS. I hardly dare open that:(
I opened it. Yes, it's bad.
 
I've hardly seen any engineer who don't wear jeans & tshirts since quite some time now. A lot even the more torn ones. Even some technical project managers (those which do know their job) normally run around with them and just have a formal jacket in the cupboard.
 
'As a personal project, I am working on an CUDA implementation of the Bitonic Sort Algorithm' another one I can't be bothered to open.
Again, I fell for it. Massive wall of code. I really must stop drinking.
 
8:35 PM
apparetly G is Grande
 
@Compass which is French, as I said. Might work as well for Spanish and Italian with things like "Grosso", but I don't speak any Roman language.
 
Strangely, I'm tempted to not dv/cv thiis: stackoverflow.com/q/46654461/758133
@Adriaan Muy grande, senor.
 
@Compass Yes, but we don't have that here. For some strange reason. We use normally English terms, not french. (and most completely wrong).
 
I don't know how to do accents in German/Spanish etc;(
 
@MartinJames Ok, no more beer for you.
@MartinJames Oh, we don't know either. We either have them or not:-). I can't do English accents
 
Ron
8:40 PM
And you also have 128 character pretzels.
 
@Olaf Well, I am running low. I have one more bottle of Batemans XXXB, so expect another hour or so of indecipherable twaddle before I goto bed.
 
Just to be clear: Europe is very far away from being some uniform construct - culturally, language-wise or economically. We are already happy we have not tried to actively kill each other for the last some decades.
 
But hey, Shengen
 
@JohnDvorak Smugglers' charter.
 
@MartinJames 10 bed: 20 goto 10 ?
 
8:44 PM
@Olaf Basically, yes:)
 
@JohnDvorak Means they don't shoot you immediately at the border :P
 
@JohnDvorak Which is becoming more and more maculature :-(
@MartinJames run
 
@user0042 It is kinda weird, driving round Europe today, past the decaying concrete fortress at either end of what used to be no-mand-land.
 
I have no more close votes :(
 
@EJoshuaS Wow, you are well prepared, aren't you?
 
8:47 PM
On a related note, there are TONS of off-topic questions in , , and
 
@MartinJames Oh, I was smuggling some hemp scions from austria recently. All over p'lice at the borders. Went through alive though :P
 
@Olaf What do you mean
 
..and instead of bribing border guards, you have to buy those bumper/screen-stickers that allow you to drive on the motorways/autobahn and main roads;(
 
@MartinJames I'm not going to buy these for a 2 hour trip to Kufstein :P
 
@MartinJames I've not driven much around cross-borders here. Some years ago, London was scaring enough: people looked like they were expection to be raped by everyone around them and police with MPs everywhere. Plus that nonsense at the airport. The atmosphere was like a country under siege. Felt pretty sad about that.
 
8:50 PM
@user0042 Well, it's OK for you locals, you know what you can get away with:)
@Olaf Yeah:(
 
@MartinJames But well all this p'lice stressed me a bit :-/
 
@user0042 Yeah, but they weren't after you, so, meh.. :)
 
@MartinJames I'd not be sure about that. Austrian police likes to pull out German cars
 
@MartinJames I also thought they must have some manhunt running. Usually you don't get molested by them with a local number plate.
 
8:54 PM
@Olaf Oh.. didn't know that. I've only have hire cars on mainland, usually Renault/Citroen.
 
@MartinJames So it's not just me? Wasn't sure, I've never been to UK before that trip. Well, maybe all larger cities have become like that now. I heared similar from Berlin.
 
@Olaf Not had any problems in Berlin. Well not from cops/military, anyway.
 
@user0042 Manhunt? Are they out of bears?
 
@MartinJames French cars are suspicious outside france :P ...
 
@user0042 Arren't they suspicious everywhere?
 
8:57 PM
@user0042 Well, covered in 'X car hire' stickers, maybe not so much.
 
Soon you'll be able to pay with your cellphone. Literally. You drop it in a box and they let you through.
 
@MartinJames I didn't say I had a problem (nor had I in London). It is just the overal atmosphere of … well, "fear" is not the right word, it is more subliminal.
 
@Olaf LOL, the bear steaks:)
 
@Olaf It seemed to be something special going on that day. 3 border crossings where p'lice was all around. Not to mention the many p'lice cars I've seen driving around in germany and austria.
@MartinJames Problem bears
 
@Olaf TBH, and I'm sorry to say this, but I feel more welcome in Berlin than London:(
 
8:59 PM
@MartinJames Some years ago, there was bear at the (iirc) German Austrian border. Police, etc. on both sides took quite some days (weeks?) to hunt it down eventually. That's what I refered to.
 
@Olaf Oh... I wen to this restaurant in Berlin where they had bear meat.
 
@MartinJames Wait until BER is in order. LOL just kidding :D
 
@user0042 LOL!!
 
@MartinJames Well, I like Berlin, but I found it more electrifying in the 80ies. Most likely the special situation. But, hey, "we are working at it".
 
@Olaf "We are working at it" BER??
 
9:02 PM
We walked to the restaurant from the Sludge Pump, (well, that's what I called it). I can't remember the name of the bar now:(
 
@MartinJames Bear ham is not that uncommon. Although I never tried it. Wouldn't refuse it when offered, though.
@user0042 No the special situation of Berlin (actually the whole the world) in the 50ies-80ies
 
@Olaf Probably a good idea to isolate Berlin once again. Better control over our "government" ;-)
 
@user0042 I don't think I will live that long. That about "the great Germany efficiency". Well, we are efficisnt at bureaucratics. And we seem to excell at exporting that.
 
@user0042 After all without an airport, we now have a chance. But I don't want to get my friends ther to be locked with those people.
@MartinJames See? Export excellence! Just wait until we "enhance" your London airports. (well, the security checks are almost as efficient already)
 
9:08 PM
@Olaf Better a few are locked instead of all of us :P
 
@Olaf One step forwards, two back. The low-cost airlines have done away with the check-in queues, but they have just moved the delay to security:(
 
@user0042 I just imagine the "Raisin bombers" changed to "paper bombers" - for new law books, forms, etc.
 
@Olaf Nothing compared to what I've experienced in the US :P
@Olaf Forms are very important, yes :)
 
@MartinJames @user0042 youtube.com/watch?v=JtEkUmYecnk
@user0042 I luckily have not been there after 911. Was annoying before that already.
 
@Olaf lol
 
9:20 PM
@MartinJames And it already got an upvote …
 
@Olaf Ja, natürlich.
 
@MartinJames Drunk monkeys upvoting everything :P
 
@user0042 It's strange how alcohol has such ranging effects. When drunk, some want to fight, others just want to sleep under the table. When I'm drunk, I want to doownvote everything and eviscerate some entitled snowflake on meta.
 
@MartinJames TBH I don't believe these monkeys even need to be drunk ...
 
@user0042 Yeah, but it keeps brewery/distillery staff in work.
Sadly, I have run out of all beer, and cannot operate a car, (or even my KB).
 
9:30 PM
@MartinJames There's no risk I see they'll get out of work in foreseeable time. I'm myself a part to guarantee this ;)
 
@user0042 Well, we all have to do our best, yes:)
 
@MartinJames You've gotta plan that better beforehand :D
 
@user0042 Yup - I screwed up;(
 
@MartinJames Take label line 10 maybe then ;)
 
9:37 PM
@user0042 Sorry, I was busy. XD
Evening all! o/
 
@Baum o/
@BaummitAugen Sure, I thought so then ;)
 
'(Bonus point if the code is hard to understand and obfuscated as hell.)' - sure, you're getting an upvote for that:(
 
Also, I apparently earned one bronze and one silver badge for reading the documentation tour alone lol. stackoverflow.com/help/badges/7358/…
 
@MartinJames Put the tag at a c++ question and silly upvotes are almost guaranteed :P
 
9:41 PM
@BaummitAugen Similar, yes.
 
@BaummitAugen I thought that madness was deprecated?
 
@MartinJames I skimmed through the tour when the thing was new, and apparently the deprecation process includes a silver badge for everyone with a docs badge.
That one was hard earned. =D
 
@MartinJames It seems still to have open flanks (cite Seehofer)
 
@user0042 I actually end up removing that one kind of frequently, it's abused as hell.
 
TBH, I never looked at the documentation. I seemed like an excuse to start fights that would get me suspended,
 
9:44 PM
@BaummitAugen Abuse seems to be the regular behavior in October / February :P
 
It was fairly useless for most of the big tags as they are already documented anyways.
 
@user0042 I'd see a doctor with that. You are bleeding all over the carpets
 
SO blew up; 'Oops! Something Bad Happened!'
 
Works for me.
 
@BaummitAugen Ok, couple refresh, it's back.
 
9:46 PM
@Olaf That's what Helmut Schmidt recommended already, but I don't want to dig deeper here ...
 
..only to find 'Calling main() recursively in C' - another 'I don't want to open that'.
 
@user0042 The pipe-smoking neo-con? No, thanks. He became "a bit" stubborn at his age (so around 30 or so).
 
@MartinJames Marked as a duplicate of "Your teacher is bad and should feel bad."
Pity we don't have that.
 
@Olaf He was smoking (menthol) cigarettes all the time. And some kinda stubborness might be better called continuity ...
 
@BaummitAugen There should be a site where profs/TA try to justify their tequila-driven, hopeless, under-taught, ridiculously over-demanding garbage.
 
9:50 PM
@user0042 Yes he was continuously ignoring facts, but sure, he followed a line. In that sense he was very much like his arch-enemy Franz-Josef.
 
@Olaf Politician...
 
@MartinJames I don't believe it's really tequila driven, just plain, blank laziness. They forgot there's need to learn about new things.
 
@MartinJames Hmm, not exactly, at least if we use the modern word, which is a synonym for "ignorant, learning-resistant, sumbo" (please consider the "be nice" filter applied)
 
@Olaf I still respect him very much, and I'm glad that they're producing a new 2EUR mint to honor him.
 
@user0042 I have little sympathy with such people. Should be 'Helllo world!' then 'Intro to the debugger'. No, it's straight in with 'TCP client/server with full explanation of your work by Monday' :((
 
9:54 PM
@MartinJames Me neither!
 
@user0042 Hmm, I could use a mint. Hve this aawful taste in my mouth. But I'd not pay 2€ for one. Ricola is fine, too and much cheaper.
 
@Olaf You want Creme de menthe?
 
@MartinJames I'd have to check if the milk in the fridge is still ok and get some cacao.
 
No beer, and I haven't even got any real milk, just UHT.
 
@MartinJames Eeek, that's used to spoil Mojito cocktails commonly by bad bartenders :P
 
10:00 PM
@user0042 Yeah, it's horrible stuff, whether the Pope drinks it or not.
 
o/ Hi @Hover
 
@user0042: hello
 
@MartinJames Uargh, no thanks. I have some "Bio-milk (Lidl actually;). I can't drink creme de menthe pure. But in (hot) chocolate drink it is fine
 
10:19 PM
@RiggsFolly Depends on the font used, surely?
 
@baum @nathan Interesting case: stackoverflow.com/questions/46655550/…
 
Orange cacao. Fine, too (the milk was good).
 
I suppose one could also use some sort of scope guard in main for this. Less boilerplate maybe.
 
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