« first day (3060 days earlier)      last day (720 days later) » 

12:40 AM
@Dsafds You can also see it via the identity a^n - 1 = (a - 1)(a^(n-1) + a^(n - 2) + ... + a^2 + a + 1). In your case a is 4.
Divide both sides by (a - 1) and you have it.
 
 
2 hours later…
3:08 AM
why would anyone think this is a chat for math?
@Adrian thanks for fixing that
 
considering I bustigated it, it was the least I could do
Still trying to figure out what's up with the avatars and favicon. For the icon, I get "Access Denied" when I try to upload a PNG image, using the web UI.
 
3:28 AM
@GrahamChiu Apparently they were right. I dunno. Anyway, we're nice to the kids around here, we're not like some other chat rooms.
@Adrian Well presumably those are all in a backup somewhere
Can you find the files, e.g. the fork picture? I mean is there a place that they are? Or are they database blobs?
I'm trying to remember how the directories were laid out, but it's like all the resources were in some particular place...one directory was all the uploaded files, don't think it was mixed in with things like avatars
In this post, the preview isn't working, but if you click on the image it shows up: forum.rebol.info/t/rebol-org-new-design/469/5
I wonder if the CHAR! datatype would be more useful if it held its utf8 encoded form literally in the payload of its cell, as a cache.
I'm getting pretty much definite that 0 is not a CHAR!, and that you can't put 0 in ANY-STRING!. We have a BLANK! and a NULL. If you find yourself in a situation where you want to represent codepoints and you must represent 0, you have two choices: use CHAR! and use blank/null to represent your 0 case, or use an integer.
There's little point of abstractions if they don't abstract things and offer you some "freedoms from". Rebol has a BINARY! datatype and that seems the perfect carrier for when you have something that's got nulls in it. You pay for the extra concern, e.g. you can't just ask a binary to give you its buffer back as a pointer in C because you must know the size too.
 
4:13 AM
@HostileFork pretty sure they're not lost and in the shared/uploads dir (where there are a whole bunch of png/jpeg files with hashed names). Not quite sure why they're not being served though. We'll get them back, I'm sure.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:52 AM
@Adrian we need a way to document how to fix the forum of it keeps going down. Once a year is too much. Can you put what you did on a Trello page?
 
>> compose [(
(\      catchar: #"🐱"
(\      did parse #{F09F90B1} [catchar end]
(\  )(
(\      cattext: "🐱"
(\      did parse #{F09F90B1} [cattext end]
(\  )(
(\      catbin: #{F09F90B1}
(\      did parse "🐱" [catbin end]
(\  )(
(\      catchar: #"🐱"
(\      did parse "🐱" [catchar end]
(\  )]
== [true true true true]
There's a lot of subtlety here in how this works and how it can know what it's doing when you're matching unconstrained binaries to strings and characters (!) But I think it's on the right track with solving what can be solved. And I think having such capabilities mitigates concern over things like "no 0 bytes in strings".
 
8:46 AM
suppose m~k (I take ~ to signal subscript here like ^ for superscript)
Then
m~k = 4^(k-1) + 4^(k-2) + .... + 4 + 1
m~(k+1) =
4*m~k = 4*4^(k-1) + 4*4^(k-2) + .... + 4*4 + 4*1
= 4^k + 4^(k-1) + ..... + 4^2 + 4
= 4^k + (m~k - 1)
so 3m~k = 4^k - 1
(You need to fill in m~(k+1) yourself, it is not equal to 4*m~k on the next line I could not edit that anymore.)
But there is your 3.
 
@iArnold He took off right after asking the question and before acknowledging an answer, so I think he got enough of a response. :-/ In any case, if people's true passion is math maybe people should start preparing for tau day. This might be the year to ask Michael to announce that tau is the official circular constant of the language, and an in-browser demo of some kind of a good tau principle would be nice to link people to.
 
Surely I celebrated halt-tau day this year! It is nice to remark that tau is the circle constant divided by 1 ( 1 vertical bar in the letter tau) and pi is the circular constant divided by 2. ( Two legs in the letter pi)
 
9:22 AM
I celebrated yesterday and made half a tau
 
9:52 AM
posted on March 18, 2019 by @hostilefork Brian Dickens

@hostilefork wrote: In bringing back a modernized positional APPLY as the default, there’s some really cool possibilities at hand. We can do something people have wanted for a while, e.g.: apply append [series value /dup n + 1 /part skip series 4] Generalized quoting gives us an interesting ability because we can actually quote refinements in such a m

 
10:20 AM
3
A: Is the use of the null entity (e.g �) valid in HTML5?

BoltClockNo, it's not valid HTML5. You can easily see this by running the following fragment through a validator such as W3C's: <!DOCTYPE html><title>&#x0;</title> Which will result in the following error: Line 1, Column 27: Character reference expands to zero. The specific code points that are n...

 
 
1 hour later…
11:40 AM
posted on March 18, 2019 by @LkpPo Stéphane Aulery

@LkpPo wrote: Hello, With Ren-c: >> 2 3 + ** Script Error: + is missing its value2 argument ** Where: console ** Near: [... 2 3 + ~~] ** Line: 1 >> 2 + 3 == 5 >> + 2 3 == 3 With R3 Alpha: >> 2 3 + ** Script error: + is missing its value2 argument >> 2 + 3 == 5 >> + 2 3 ** Script error: + operator is missing an

 
12:20 PM
@GrahamChiu Ever used a function with a refinement with multiple arguments? How important is that? I say not important.
You generally seemed to think people going crazy with refinements were just not noticing they needed a dialect.
I was thinking maybe the NUL character itself should die, but there's a reasonable amount of math you might want to do on characters with bit masking and such.
So it's not the character existing that's the problem, it's just putting it in ANY-STRING!. It might seem a pain to have to scan a binary to find embedded 0s to make it a string, but you had to scan it anyway for invalid UTF-8. Just don't let it have embedded zeros during that scan.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:46 PM
posted on March 18, 2019 by @LkpPo Stéphane Aulery

@LkpPo wrote: REBOL/Core Users Guide - Ch. 1 REBOL is a messaging language. Its main purpose is to provide a better approach to distributed computing and communication. I can not refrain from making the connection with Erlang while thinking that the concept is quite different even if the intention is the same in the words. To see later. REBOL/Core

 
2:10 PM
posted on March 18, 2019 by @LkpPo Stéphane Aulery

@LkpPo wrote: Idea: test the output of help command for each topic Posts: 1 Participants: 1 Read full topic

 
2:46 PM
posted on March 18, 2019 by lkppo

(not error? trap [ for-each w words of lib [ dump w if not set? w [continue] if action? get w (compose [help (w)]) else [ if not issue? get w [ comment "don't open web browser" help (get w) ] ] ] ]) "failed, test returned #[false]"

posted on March 18, 2019 by lkppo

(not find source-analysis ) "failed, test returned #[false]"

 
3:10 PM
@HostileFork @GrahamChiu @BrianOtto please note this commit. Now we can easily retrieve the short-hash of last successful commit for each build. E.g. for 0.4.40
 
 
2 hours later…
5:30 PM
@giuliolunati Clever idea!
 
6:11 PM
^-- Neat to see LkpPo bootstrapping on OpenBSD and then going through the tests too (bug report is on Debian though).
 
6:28 PM
I heard a rumor that Ren-C can now manipulate the DOM in a browser. Is this true? If so, are there any tutorials?

Very interested...
3
 
@Respectech The rumors are true, but it's all being worked on and not public yet. You'll get much better results running it if you configure your browser for webassembly threading (e.g. 30x faster better)
@Respectech A REPL is here. For one simple demo, try do https://gitlab.com/hostilefork/popupdemo/raw/master/popupdemo.reb
@Respectech If you use firefox, there are switches in different locations, we'll be putting together some instructions in the web console to tell you when you're running the slow version and give you a pictoral guide to how to fix it. That not being done (and the fact the site goes down every time we commit to Ren-C master) are all part of the "not public yet" bit.
@Respectech There is an effort being put together called "Redbol" which is not at all ready yet, but the plan is to be able to more-or-less fully emulate a Rebol2/Red/R3-Alpha-ish experience. Ren-C should be more than capable enough to do so.
But changes were made for a reason. A lot of things are way, way, way better. If something turns out not to be better in the Beta/One migration, it will be reverted. Recently GET/ANY and SET/ANY became very similar to how they were...sort of, for example.
(When I say "not public" I mean, I don't want to see the REPL deployment link show up on hackernews or reddit, and if it does I'll replace it with a page saying "hey someone shared a link publicly they weren't supposed to!" But obviously it's "public" for some definition short of that. Public to the people working on it.)
 
6:45 PM
@HostileFork the good thing is, if load-r3.js use that to choose the libr3.js version, that's safe also during commitment
 
@giuliolunati How would that work? If you don't know the commit ID and are looking for it, how can you bootstrap to getting an ID the deployment wouldn't be overwriting?
What I can see it doing is letting us avoid using GitHub API, if the deploy just puts that in a root S3 directory not under a commit id. The generation process could probably work the commit id into the load-r3.js as part of the make-reb-lib.r
 
@Respectech so I have a little rebol web app. the console is dom manipulation because it keeps adding text to it.
so, go to http://hostilefork.com/media/shared/replpad-js/ and type do <nzpower> enter say period of 7 days, 88 (kwH) and 20 (kwH) and you'll see my power bill :)
 
I'm looking into your examples right now. It's really impressive!
 
The app runs on GitLab, and loads configuration files from there.
 
We have a potential web project that we're proposing to PG&E, and I'd love it if we could use Ren-C for that. But it may still be too early in the development phase...
 
6:56 PM
it turns Gitlab files into Gitlab API calls to fetch CORS data
 
<mind blown>
I just tried your app, and it worked, but ended with an error. Just FYI:
Enter whole days covered by this bill (Q): ‌7
‌Enter kWh used over this bill: ‌30
‌Enter kWh exported to the Grid over this period.
Enter 0 or return if you don't have solar panels! ‌0
‌Mercury low user
Standard - Anytime per kWh: $0.21
Daily Fixed charge: $2.2465
(i) Info: use WHY for error information
** Math Error: attempt to divide by zero
** Where: divide _ GSTexc spaced print cycle nzpower do catch either else _ do main
** Near: [divide '$0 '0.;5 ~~]
** File: gitlab.com/Zhaoshirong/nzpower/raw/master/nzpower.reb
 
@Respectech That's new
did you enter some unrealistic data?
 
All the data I entered is shown above...
 
Ok, I haven't tested with 0 recently
 
How does "do <nzpower>" call a script? Isn't <nzpower> just seen as a tag! datatype?
 
7:00 PM
Anyway, the data could be created as a html table, and injected into the DOM
 
BTW, my wife and daughter just spent two weeks in NZ on the northern island. They had a blast!
 
when you do a tag, it looks up a tag table of scripts
so that's why you can do import <json> as welll
and it pulls in json.reb from Chris's github repo
 
Ren-C opens up a lot of new stuff to absorb. Is there a tutorial or doc somewhere that can get me up to speed?
Is Chris's github repo the only place that do tag! pulls from?
 
@Respectech It is my belief that DO's argument is "place to get source from". That means that there is near-zero (less than zero) value in having do 1 give you the number 1. If you say do "print hi" you don't get the string "print hi". I'd rather have "do 1" mean "do the contents of drag and drop bin 1" for instance. So all meanings of DO arguments that weren't "place to get the thing to run" were either removed or repurposed.
 
@Respectech this is very odd. I just used your data and no divide by zero errors
I need to fix that app/wasm thing though now
What browser are you using?
 
7:07 PM
@Respectech The focus is not on providing any particular product, that comes later. There's some (not entirely up to date) notes on Trello. If you find an out of date note, you can mention it, and I'm hoping people will have the power to fix it.
 
I'm using Firefox 63 on Win10.
 
@HostileFork the file .../${OS_ID}/last_git_commit_short.js is unique for each OS_ID, it's overwritten at each commit and it always contains the short hash of last deployed commit
 
one lookup table is here https://github.com/r3n/renclib/blob/master/userutils.reb and the other is https://github.com/r3n/renclib/blob/master/usermodules.reb
@Respectech can you try Chrome? On your phone?
 
@HostileFork Doesn't that kill the homoiconicity of Ren-C?
 
@giuliolunati Ah. Well you have to make it check for 0.16.2 or 0.16.1 or something don't you? Or a deployment of 0.3.40 will run first. I think the deploys don't wait until all builds are successful (do they?) I thought Travis deploys each build individual when it goes green.
@Respectech I don't see how you would say so. if do "print {Hi}" does not evaluate to the string "print {hi}", how is some parameter convention to DO's behavior on <tag> or 1 changing killing anything? It's a function, it takes some parameters, it does some things. It should do useful things.
 
7:11 PM
Bo, the biggest change is ?? is now --
 
If you want a function that evaluates to the thing you pass it, that's identity. If you want a function that kicks off evaluation of a thing as if it had been the original thing evaluated, that's eval
 
@HostileFork OK. I understand. So do "print {Hi}" still works, but do with other datatypes like integer! and tag! have new functionality...
 
@Respectech Yup! And meet the EVAL native for something else in this vein.
 
@HostileFork No problem, $(OS_ID)/last_git_commit_short.js always contains the hash of the last deployed commit for that OS_ID
 
@giuliolunati Ahhh... ok! So you've almost fixed the problem!
 
7:15 PM
@GrahamChiu Same problem with Chrome on Android on a new Samsung S10.
 
@Respectech I'll go over the code again. Perhaps I'm seeing a cached version and the interpreter has changed
so that GST is being defaulted to 0 somewhere
 
@GrahamChiu Something above you want me to try?
 
BTW, we have a Patreon page which pays for the web server (forum) and if we have enough money left over we could sponsor some JS work
 
@HostileFork I think so... let me exploit that in load-r3.js...
 
@HostileFork the script using 7 days, 30 kwh and 0 kwh
 
7:18 PM
@GrahamChiu No error on evaluation, and if I q after the first one is finished it just sits there.
 
Can you specify no-cache in replpad-js by default?
 
@HostileFork so just @Respectech is seeing this error
Our Patreon account is patreon.com/rebolfoundation
 
@Respectech I noticed BrianOtto doing some tweaks in his branch for that, maybe as a debugging convenience. I kind of would rather that we be thinking about how to make caching work. We don't want to tax the servers for these big bandwidth blobs if it goes to more people than just us, and also not caching means slowness.
 
@HostileFork that's the assert I was mentioning the other day
 
(The Patreon covers these servers sending the WASM blobs and the forum, administrated by Graham who volunteers his time.)
But regarding that, if we do try to deploy this as a hosted library and people start using it on any kind of global scale, we're definitely going to want caching on... not disabled by default. So if a problem turns out to be caching related then we should look at the situation or pattern and figure out how to do it.
 
7:24 PM
@HostileFork well, I could move the wasm to github ?
from my S3 account
 
@GrahamChiu Good way to get GitHub to ban you
 
@HostileFork Chat here serves files out of github
 
@GrahamChiu I just tried it from Chromium 72 on Ubuntu MATE 18.04 on a 4.14 Kernel with the same results.
 
@Respectech and we have the Rebol conference in Philly shortly. Ex-red users are welcome lol
 
@Respectech I'm just impressed it's running at all in these configurations. Good work, @giuliolunati!
 
7:27 PM
BTW, the Ubuntu machine is on an ARM processor, not Intel...
 
@Respectech WebAssembly abstracts it to where we can't tell.
 
Hmm
 
I haven't done the #enable-webassembly-threads or #shared-array-buffer on Chromium, so wondering if that would cause the problem.
 
@Respectech the only change is that forever was changed to cycle
 
@Respectech Ah, let me try disabling that then
 
7:29 PM
GST is set outside of that loop, and the function GSTexc uses the GST value
so it should work
and not be 0
 
@GrahamChiu Yup, disabling webassembly threads I get the error. So raise this as a bug I guess. We don't have a separate tracker for libRebol.js - so I guess for the moment raise all bugs that don't have obvious application to the desktop version also against ReplPad. See if you can narrow it down to a minimal repro first though.
 
that's very odd
so we can use that as a test for someone who hasn't enabled webassembly threads?
 
@GrahamChiu You aren't supposed to know or care, though I suppose you might argue that if you knew someone was running especially slowly you might style your program differently and make different choices.
 
@Respectech so what do you want to do with rebol in the browser?
 
So, I added the flags to Chromium 72 on Ubuntu MATE 18.04 ARM and ran the script and it processed correctly.
Can't figure out how to enable that in Firefox though.
 
7:35 PM
@Respectech and Brave doesn't seem to work either though it's Chromium based
 
@GrahamChiu I presently write all my web applications using my JSID dialect. But I still have to write JS code to do stuff with the DOM. I'd love to be able to write the same apps 100% in a Rebol-family language.
 
@Respectech we still have to write JS though
 
@Respectech It would probably be helpful for you to read On Giving libRebol.js More Powers Than JavaScript.
 
My toolkit of choice is R3, JS and MySQL. I'd love to remove the JS part of that even if it means converting to a different variant of R3.
 
@Respectech I thought you had switched to red?
r3 is pretty ancient now
you can't be doing much with it
 
7:41 PM
@Respectech Atronix is looking at the Redbol option for ZOE conversion, e.g. use a layer that acts more like Rebol2/Red/R3-Alpha and requires fewer changes to code. I endorse and like the idea of having a compatibility mode. I am, however, at (or past) my own personal limit for what I can work on. This means other people have to take ownership on such initiatives.
But I see Redbol as a worthy and good effort, to have an extension which skins Ren-C to run old scripts mostly compatibly, and would give my advice and help with it. I just can't be in charge of it.
If you and they have a mutual interest, and want to draw up a plan, I will participate in the drawing of said plan.
If people with non trivial amounts of money wish to attract the attention of people with relevant skills to get involved by offering them money, that sounds great. I have suggested that Nick might be able to rationalize sponsoring some JS kids to hack up a VID and Redbol layer such that it could run examples from his book.
Maybe modify an example from the book here or there, if necessary, but for the most part use the tutorial itself as a spec.
 
so this is the JS trace
Invalid function pointer called with signature 'viii'. Perhaps this is an invalid value (e.g. caused by calling a virtual method on a NULL pointer)? Or calling a function with an incorrect type, which will fail? (it is worth building your source files with -Werror (warnings are errors), as warnings can indicate undefined behavior which can cause this)
nullFunc_viii @ libr3-f4e1820.js:6592
wasm-function[69] @ wasm-000a6282-69:5789
wasm-function[72] @ wasm-000a6282-72:26
wasm-function[69] @ wasm-000a6282-69:3844
oops, didn't look that long in the browser!
 
@Respectech In the "there's a lot to absorb" area, there is, but you'll find it's all awesome. Here's some COMPOSE tricks to try out for your amusement. It goes on and on.
 
@Respectech Still in that biz? People are ordering stuff?
 
No, not doing too much with R3. Only running two multi-million-dollar companies with 15 employees instead of 30, due to the productivity enhancements.
2
 
7:53 PM
@Respectech I guess that's a yes. :-)
 
@GrahamChiu I'm very interested in Red, just as I am in other Redbol-family languages. Ren-C has been off my radar for a while, though.
 
Lots of interesting things to read.
 
@Respectech so maybe some of that productivity could be sent back to the community for funding some JS ??
 
Just a small glimpse into what goes into creating the invoice page you see above. Our entire infrastructure for ameriDroid runs on SBCs running Linux, primarily using R3. We have a process that polls Shopify and imports orders into the database in real-time. The shipping department uses Android tablets to view the incoming orders on a prioritized basis, and then begins to fill them based on priority.
 
8:02 PM
Geez, I'm getting a 503 on reading my Gitlab sources :(
Hopefully you didn't lose too much in the crypto crash of 2018!
Of course, if you've held, you've lost nothing
 
Next to the icons in the "Status" area, you'll see three right-pointing arrows ">", with names and timestamps next to them. Those names are the people in the shipping department who are undertaking those tasks. Clicking on the > will show the video feed for that exact timeframe so our admin staff can verify that the customer received what they ordered.
The video feed is also done using cameras built around SBCs using R3 and Red/System for the real-time video processing.
If you look next to the Quantity fields near the bottom, there is a number in grey (the quantity fulfilled) and two names. The first is the person who picked the items and the second is the person who checked the items.
Everything is logged, timestamped, and verified so we can assure the best quality experience for our customers.
@GrahamChiu Regarding the crypto crash, I did HODL and didn't lose anything. I'm still up about 3x over my initial investment. Thinking about investing more as I think we are at the bottom of the next big push.
@GrahamChiu I'd be happy to fund some JS, especially if it can help with our corporate goals. I've contributed several thousands to the Red project and other projects in line with our needs.
 
@Respectech Great. We needed that $$ to fund TLS 1.3 for Cyphre but he then disappeared on us. And Brian did it instead.
 
@Respectech I think that the best things to fund are features that interest you personally that are well-defined. I'm hoping that the web REPL gives people that opportunity. JS coders are more plentiful than C/C++ - and certainly more than Red coders.
 
@Respectech Anyway, the Patreon link is above
I think we'd rather have many small donors rather than one large donor, but beggars can't be choosers
 
One more thing about the invoice example above. The FedEx tracking number (obfuscated for security) is pulled via R3 from ShipStation, our shipping software. Everything is so integrated and automatic that it almost runs itself.
@GrahamChiu So does $1000 classify as a small donation or a large donation? Just curious...
 
8:11 PM
@GrahamChiu I think it's difficult for people to put money to something nebulous, they want to get something specific. I think someone would like to say "hey I'll chip in for the forum, the forum is cool" or even "I'll run the forum, I have a server". When it comes to financing any further work, I think finding JS programmers who are young and probably good who would be happy to get anything.
 
@Respectech medium
 
@Respectech That's the cost of the conference room for the Philadelphia conference (4th of July weekend). If you would like to donate that you would be the sponsor! :-)
 
We had that from Edoc I think to fund TLS which went to @HostileFork
 
I need to wrap my head more around what Ren-C is capable of and what its target is, and how I could use it to improve automation before knowing what types of things I should advocate for as far as features...
 
Of course we now need TLS 1.3 on the server side so we can run web servers in renc
 
8:14 PM
@HostileFork This is the first I've heard of the Philadelphia conference. Is there a website for it? Who is organizing and promoting it?
BTW, sponsorship is good, but I'm not sure how much that would promote the business. My CFO and bookkeeper would probably get mad at me for throwing money at causes that don't benefit the company. But paying for development on tools that assist our productivity are totally cool.
 
@Respectech It's @rgchris's initiative--we'd planned to send out an invite that would actually run in the web console...so that's a bit of the delay. Since it's the weekend after 4th of July I was thinking the invite should have fireworks. But, well, you know, planning.
 
Not saying that we wouldn't want to sponsor the conference, but that's a bit more of a touchy topic.
I wrote a fireworks demo in Red, so we could use that. ;-p
 
Chris's take on it is, that if you want to take a vacation on the 4th, Philadelphia is an interesting place to do it, so you'd come for that and stay for the weekend.
 
From an up-to-date version of Red, enter the following:

```
do http://respectech.com/red/explosions.red
```
 
I'm not attending as I wouldn't get past immigration but I think it should be an inclusive conference including red
 
8:19 PM
Hmm. I guess gitter markdown doesn't work here...
@GrahamChiu If you need a sponsor, I'd be happy to. Unless you're a terrorist...
 
@Respectech There's a "fixed font" button to the right where the SEND and UPLOAD button is. But ordinary backticks work.
 
<Just kidding>
 
@Respectech You sponsor terrorists?
 
because I frequently travel to areas of Muslim insurgency :(
i.e. I frequently travel to Xinjiang where there are a million or so Muslims interned in red-ucation camps
 
@Respectech I don't know how recent the Red I have around is, but it works...slowly. Which does raise some of the issue about how one's preconceptions about speed may be changing. WebAssembly is near-native speed (kind of)...and browsers can do quite a lot. There's glitches--if you want to write an MP3 or mod player the "sound drivers" are a little weak. SID player
 
8:23 PM
@HostileFork Hey, I said "unless you're a terrorist..."
 
@Respectech Other "webassembly is changing the game" examples, e.g. TurboBadger
 
Don't get me in trouble with the authorities!
 
@Respectech You said you were kidding, but not about what part.
 
I was kidding in that I didn't think Graham is a terrorist. He hasn't threatened me lately.
 
My view now--as it was with the Red rift--is they spent their time on all the wrong questions.
 
8:24 PM
heh, if immigration let me through the gates maybe I'll take you up on the offer :)
 
About a year ago, I successfully helped sponsor some Venezuelan refugees who were openly anti-Maduro. They're happy they aren't in Venezuela now, that's for sure!
@HostileFork Everyone has their ideas on what the best direction for their efforts are. I'm eagerly awaiting full I/O in Red and now full DOM control in Ren-C!
 
Anyway, Ren-C is still quite on the mission of staying true to low dependencies. Not only does it build with nothing more than a 350K C compiler and a Ren-C executable (no GNU make needed!), it can embed that compiler
 
I have to go to a meeting with my Executive Sales Director now, so I'll be back after that.
 
'k, well, welcome back...thanks for stopping in.
 
 
2 hours later…
10:02 PM
@giuliolunati You are invited too, of course, to the Philadelphia conference for 4th of July! If you feel like taking a vacation... :-) Chris says it's a really interesting place for 4th of July
 
>> ‌GST: 1
‌== 1

>> ‌GST: 1.15
‌== 0.;5

>> ‌
that's a console session with threads disabled
 
10:30 PM
Done with my meeting...
 
@Respectech Would you say you're pretty knowledgable about JavaScript coding?
 
@HostileFork No. Just enough to get some minor stuff done.
Don't care for the wordiness or the syntax...
'document.getElementByID('someelement').innerHTML;'
Annoying.
 
@Respectech It opens a lot of doors to be able to bridge to it. The libRebol API is based on variadic string/splicing. You can see how it centrally revolves around the concept of a function whose spec is a Rebol BLOCK! (like a FUNCTION) but whose body is a string of JavaScript text: github.com/hostilefork/replpad-js/blob/master/replpad.reb#L180
As things evolve, the idea is that people would use libraries that would require little to no JavaScript text, because that's all handled for you, by functions that do it.
 
It's amazing work. It would take a lot of bandwidth to dissect and study it to the point where I'd be useful with it. That's why I'd love some tutorials, to minimize the time investment to get up to speed.
I'd be happy to extend it with my efforts if I had a conceptual foundation to start from.
 
10:40 PM
For instance, I integrated W2UI.js into JSID on R3, so it is super easy to do popups and UIs in JSID.
 
I'm not very interested in a book or static document.
I want a living tutorial--no graven images. :-P
Right now this whole concept is a big speculative space, they're trying to put Mono and .NET in the browser, and there are a number of people asking if and when people will be delivering their apps in webassembly and only going through JS/CSS for UI
 
Here is an example of a living tutorial I wrote in R3/JSID which integrates jquery and w2ui into the dialect.

http://video.respectech.com:8080/tutorial/r3/index.r3
 
@Respectech Well, you've got my icons on there, so that's good. :-)
 
@HostileFork Yep! Among other things, you make good icons!
2
 
@Respectech I think, in that case, there are other people who can do as well or better. I'd say the programming is probably more notable. :-)
My ranking among graphic designers is far more amateur and beginner than among programmers.
 
10:47 PM
The programming is the "Among other things" part. I'm sure there are other notable things that classify as "other things" that I'm not aware of.
 
I think I could be pretty good, win design awards, etc, but it would take a lot of time and it's not really my life path.
Software has more moving parts so I find it more engaging.
 
If this Ren-C/Web project can be embedded in HTML and interact with the DOM, then I think it will be a huge game changer, at least for me.
 
@Respectech I'm sorry I don't have a magic wand to summarize the points yet of how a Rebol2/R3-Alpha user can come up to speed most quickly to Ren-C. It hasn't been written. There's long philosophical justification documents, and I can say "go read them all" and I think they're interesting, but I also can't really put myself in the shoes of someone who wasn't there for all of it starting from ground zero.
 
@HostileFork Oh, thank you very much! I'm afraid it will impossible :-/
 
@giuliolunati impossible is a strong word. Did you mean "I don't think I can make it?" :-)
 
10:51 PM
OK. First step:

1. How do I create an HTML page from scratch and what other files do I need in order to run Ren-C/Web within that HTML page.
 
@HostileFork would you test replpad and load-r3? [github pages experiment]
 
@Respectech It's a good question, but before you ask it, please read Web Build: Dangers and Opportunities
 
@HostileFork yes, exactly ... thx for correcting me
 
@giuliolunati Well if you made a little video or wanted some slides to announce we could certainly show it, and if you stay up outside your time zone a little that weekend you could watch and chat with us!
Not too far away, just 4 months now...
@Respectech For the moment, I'm kind of asking people to not strain the "hosted lib" problem, though that hasn't stopped people from cloning replpad and trying. And they've been more successful than I'd anticipated. I thought it would be harder. I was thinking more people would load my deployment and do their scripts, not try and build or use libRebol.js on their own.
But we have had several eager beavers doing it despite me not thinking they would.
 
@HostileFork oh, very nice! I can try, but my english speaking is near zero... ask Brett...
 
10:58 PM
@Respectech My forum post about "whoa, slow down guys" is that I do not want to be burdened with some transitional APIs. But @giuliolunati started a little bit on something of a template. I have not gone over it, and we haven't put it through a vetting process! I'm okay with people looking at it, but I don't want the wrong impression to be gotten: github.com/hostilefork/replpad-js/blob/master/template.html
You shouldn't be looking for user guides or such, you should be asking "how can I help make this good so we can publish it". We need collaborators right now, not customers!
It's an uneasy balance. You want to publish so people know what you're doing so it can get better and everyone can help. But you don't want things happening at the wrong time or incomplete things becoming canonized.
@giuliolunati Well, realtime chat, you could just type. I could read your presentation slides for you.
I think it would be neat, to see a video, of how you use the phone to develop
I think programming on a laptop is a pain! (just read a thing saying Carl griped about it too, while catching up on the various Rebol blogspam comments). The idea of doing all my programming on a phone is... I can't imagine.
@giuliolunati Speaking of that, I was looking in Travis and it's pulling NDK from you? Does it build with latest? Is there a reason?
 
@HostileFork The way that I develop, I need to have a target that is functional and provides some value. Then I can help develop the project toward that goal.
The easiest for me is to build a component for our back office system.
 
@Respectech I'm in favor of people building things they want, simple or complex. I'm okay with Graham's power bill calculator. Sure it's something you can do in Excel, but scripting offers more flexibility and it's a good lens for looking at various issues someone might have. If you were going to do it anyway, you might as well use it to stress and test a system that's interesting for other reasons.
If I were a CEO of the power-bill-calculator company I'd say "you did WHAT?" and fire him. :-) But in this context, it's an interesting test.
 
11:53 PM
@Respectech just clone the repo and alter the index.html to do what you want.
eg. see github.com/gchiu/gchiu.github.io which is accessible as a github page at gchiu.github.io
so, that's a one page app
 
@Respectech If at all possible, though, don't do that, and just DO your scripts from the repl deployment. But know that we are thinking about how one might build a web app independently.
 

« first day (3060 days earlier)      last day (720 days later) »