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12:49 AM
0
Q: Node-Red Watson Personality Insight

RICARDO GRACAI've been trying to use node red to work with watson personality insight. So far so good, I've created an account in IBM Watson Cloud and I generated a new lite project on personality insight. My problem is in node red, when I put my API key on it it says it's unauthorized. I'm not too sure if I ...

 
1:06 AM
That's an interesting-slash-suspicious confluence of NODE RED WATSON and a R in a Red square.
 
Node Red is like Squeak for Programmers or something like that
 
1:35 AM
Wonder whatever happened to Luna. Sounded interesting, I downloaded it but it didn't jump out at me as obvious what to do with it. Decided I'd look at it later. luna-lang.org
 
 
4 hours later…
5:17 AM
posted on March 17, 2019 by hostilefork

Mentioning this as a talking point to bear in mind while doing any hacking on %make-reb-lib.r ... There's a lot of JavaScript-specific stuff in the %make/tools/make-reb-lib.r file. Ideally, all of it would move out and into the JavaScript extension. So there would need to be a hook point in the make process to do that. We'd need to factor out the part that provides the scanned list of API e

 
@BrianOtto I hear you're hacking the JS stuff!
How's it going?
 
@GrahamChiu yup, going pretty good :)
I am working on it as we speak. Just trying to get a proof-of-concept app working, that will let you build a HTML UI within the REPL.
3
 
@BrianOtto I'm just dumping results to the console
but I guess one could create a table and replace an existing div
 
Here's a sneak peak
2
 
@BrianOtto You'll be getting a tweet from Stealth Mountain shortly... :-)
 
5:28 AM
ha!
 
@BrianOtto Looking good! In the color scheme, too! I've been wanting to think about the ReplPad's styling aesthetics, but haven't gotten to that bit yet.
 
@BrianOtto how are you getting data back to Rebol?
 
It's turning out to be more of an app than a UI framework, but I'll explain more when I get it in a good enough state to demo the concepts. Though I still do want to explore both things.
 
it all sounds very exciting
we may finally get a VID :)
 
@BrianOtto There's going to be a lot of diverse possibilities with WASM. I think it's good to try a lot of things; different ones might suit different purposes. I was looking at some webassembly demos earlier, there are things like this TurboBadger UI which could be fun.
The interesting edge which libRebol has here (beyond the superweapon of Ren-C's evaluator advancements) is a rather smooth integration with both C and JavaScript.
So you can have C extensions and JavaScript code all interoperating with a Rebol substrate that shares state between that C and the browser with a smoothness that (as far as I can tell) is unparalleled.
Of course, it's new--so I'm speaking about projecting where this goes down the road. One is always going to struggle with the debugging and errors and such in foreign hosts like a browser, with the C state opaque. Lot of need for the Rebol-side debugger to up its game. So I hope the groundwork is there for that.
I think it would be best if there's a lot of experiments, throwing things at the wall until some things stand out as getting the attention of outsiders enough to want to learn the language and start getting involved--as opposed to investing too long and too heavily in some preconceived plan.
 
5:43 AM
Well, the main concept is that I've updated the REPL to allow apps to register a function that is used to parse their own DSL. So any command you type gets passed through a function the app controls and this allows you to create your own language that users can use to interact with the app.

If you look at the screenshot, it shows you the commands I am supporting so far... and normally typing something like "add button myButton" would generate an error in Rebol, but instead the app captures it and uses parse to run the correct Rebol statements to add the element to the canvas using js-nativ
 
@BrianOtto Can you do anything simpler? Like a form with a submit button that gets handled by Rebol?
 
@BrianOtto Did you see the console's dialect hook ?
 
@GrahamChiu No, I haven't done anything like that
@HostileFork No, I did not, reading now ...
 
@BrianOtto Console documentation may be out of date, but there is some: github.com/r3n/reboldocs/wiki/User-and-Console
I'm hoping that the tutorial will be implemented via console hooks; that watch what you type to see when to put you at the next step, and that pull things to put inline into the console session (tasks, videos, etc.) in that model...as opposed to being a separate app. That way various improvements can hopefully mean improvements to the non-web consoles too.
 
5:58 AM
Nice, you have console skinning too. Yea, I didn't realize there was things in place for skinning and dialects. I'll have to refactor a bit and use the built-in features then!
 
@BrianOtto The forum is down due to a botched upgrade, or I'd send you some links explaining what a METHOD is (!) But in any case, if you want a function to be bound inside an object (e.g. to add a hook) you can say obj/member: function [... <in> obj] [...]. METHOD is a way of dodging that for binding, where it backwards quotes the SET-XXX! to get the <in>, so just obj/member: method [...] [...]
It's actually more than that, based on something called derived binding, which is an interesting design that overcomes a serious weakness of historical Rebol combinatorics (where 1000 instances of an object with 50 member functions each had to make deep copies of the bodies of each function so the words in the bodies would point to the instance, so you're making 50,000 deep copies just to create those 1000 objects).
 
@HostileFork Yea, I agree. I am only going to build out the app enough to demo the concepts and will then open up a ticket for review and see if it's worth pursing further. We need to experiment with different kinds of ideas and see what ends up being the killer feature that makes people stand up and notice the project/language
 
I think that's the trick, to find things JavaScript is weak at that actually bothers JavaScript programmers, and show interesting solutions.
 
@HostileFork Thanks, yea I'll probably be hitting you up with some questions once I start changing the code to use the dialect hook.
 
6:17 AM
If you can find @draegtun and draeg him back here to answer questions and work on the console for the web, even better. :-)
 
-- filename
and it cuts it short
print filename
and you can't print on a file!
<sigh>
 
@GrahamChiu I'm thinking --- would give you a longer output
You can print [file] just not print file
 
dump, and -- have a limit somewhere in the user profile?
 
Developing those features is up to those most interested in developing them. I didn't pick the limit. The behavior of it is all Rebol code.
It would be nice to pursue what sensible defaults were vs. worrying over configurability.
 
7:00 AM
I put together a quick and dirty [hack](http://rebol.brianotto.com/replpad-form) showing how data can be sent from a form to Rebol
Click the "Submit Data to Rebol" button and you will see my name get printed in the console
document.querySelector('#submit').onclick = function() {
    var name = document.querySelector('#name').value
    input_resolve(reb.Text('print "' + name + '"'))
}
^ this is what it's doing

It takes the value of the form input, builds a valid Rebol expression and passes it through reb.Text and sends it to the console using input_resolve()
Ideally, you would replace "print" with your own method for parsing the data and then do something with it
 
@BrianOtto kewl
 
 
1 hour later…
8:32 AM
Has anyone worked with [Pywebview](https://github.com/r0x0r/pywebview) before? I have done a little, and it's really quite nice. It's a cross-platform wrapper around each OS' native webview (i.e. MSHTML in Windows, WebKit in Linux), which basically allows you to build your UI in HTML, CSS and JavaScript. Sort of like Electron, but smaller in size since the browser doesn't need to be shipped with the executable. It also allows communication between JavaScript and Python.

So, in theory, you could get something like this running for Rebol too now. i.e. A cross-platform Desktop app, with a GUI
 
@BrianOtto I've messed with Qt's QWebView, but because that was kind of big and heavy I didn't use that in Ren Garden back when I made that...I picked a smaller Qt contorl. But working with the native browser sounds cool.
For the near term, I'd like to avoid being in the business of shipping .exe's of any kind--for a lot of reasons.
 
Nice, yea that project has an option to use Qt too
 
 
7 hours later…
3:47 PM
Clearly the typical Rebol EXE and Mezzanine rely upon PARSE pretty heavily. But I have been thinking about whether PARSE can be an extension...and that you can boot a libRebol without it. I think you should be able to, and that should be a factor guiding some of how things are layered.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:30 PM
With the console there's an issue that you can't copy text from it, but you can paste. Is control-C being used for interrupt handling instead?
 
@GrahamChiu No. But there's some special handling for keys that's probably screwing it up. You can look into what's happening in document.onKeyDown() in gui.js. It's probably suppressing the event by not returning it or something.
My intent was to use Escape for canceling in the Repl, but we'd have to think about how that would interact with people's desire to use escape in an app popped up with a dialog that has the repl still in the background.
 
Also the console gets really slow with a lot of text in it
so I guess I need to reset after each calculation
 
@GrahamChiu We should look into questions of how to make the console's scrollable view drop lines off. It may not need to drop them out of memory entirely, just shuffle them to a running transcript of some kind that's not displayed unless you ask. (Think also how SO chat works, and other such pages).
Then if the invisible transcript reaches some kind of limit where it should also do some truncation, it could ask you if you want to save it to a local file or something.
I like it whenever you have these limits and things that are consuming resources to have some kind of meter or gauge indicator in the UI telling you how full it is. So not just a button to view it, but also the button is some kind of measurement. Think about how the trash can has trash in it or not...there's a mod for MacOS that fills it based on how full it is, even better:
So the console should give you notice of resource consumption and give you ways to trade off and mitigate that. And it should be visible to you in a clear/pleasing way.
On the Rebol side, we do bookkeeping and know about memory use, and can recycle/reclaim it; so some sort of metering and buttons for that would be good. (Though there's a big looming GC issue about reclaiming resources associated with JavaScript objects when you're on the wrong thread I have to deal with, until which time GCs are suspect)
 
5:49 PM
@Adrian any ideas on fixing the forum?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:53 PM
@GrahamChiu I assume you have ssh access to forum.rebol.info - could you set me up as well, if I send you my public key?
 
7:18 PM
@Adrian Think he thought you had access to this already, that the key is in some container adminstration page.
 
I don't have access, IIRC - I've only poked around in the web UI of the forum.
That's where I attempted the upgrade from.
 
@Adrian My machine ssh-s in to that IP address. I don't know if I set it up using a special ssh key that I wouldn't mind giving you or not. I do ssh key stuff so rarely I always have to look it up.
Lemme try and figure the answer to that question out
 
Well, he probably set you up at some point, by copying your key over.
 
So if you were to use it you'd need a private key of which I likely only have one. I probably should bother to tinker the setup so it uses a different key for everything
 
I can generate a key pair for access to the forum and give you my public key to copy to the proper place there and give me access as well.
 
7:25 PM
Maybe I'm allowed to do that, what file do I have to have write access to?
I seem to be able to sudo
 
copy my pub key to ~/.ssh/authorized_keys
I'll Skype it to you
you didn't accept my last Skype invite
 
@Adrian Text'd you...
 
8:00 PM
I'm a bit sad that : as the notation for literal VOID! is probably not a good idea. It's a perfect fit in so many ways, like compose [(if false ['foo]): 10] becoming [: 10] and then you try to DO that and it errors.
It's not a good idea because in addition to looking too much like a semicolon, it also is the kind of thing people would then be tempted to use in dialects for non-void purposes. Whatever a VOID! is, it should be ugly enough you never want to use it on purpose.
But I've began to wonder if void should be an ugly string-ish type, so the specific void you see carries a message about what was wrong with it. reduce [1 if false [2] 3] => [1 ~wasnull~ 2]
Backslash could be like hazard marks. :-) [1 \\wasnull\\ 2]
 
8:45 PM
>> ‌did parse "meow🐈🐈🐈meow" [to "🐈" copy cats: some "🐈" to end]
‌== true

>> ‌cats
‌== "🐈🐈🐈"
From the UTF-8-Everywhere-Built ReplPad. :-)
 
9:22 PM
Wow i havent been here in so long
@HostileFork i got a quick question , you mind helping a fellow out?
 
@Dsafds Is it a question only I can help with? :-/
 
Nah, it just seems your the most active one here
 
Well StackOverflow is a big site of helping on things. I may or may not know what you're asking about. But if you form it as a question here, then even if I do know the answer, then when I do answer it then it can be useful to more people.
So it's the better way to ask things, even if you want to go "hey, do you know the answer to this?"
 
@HostileFork @GrahamChiu - forum's back up - Brian can you check if what was posted yesterday is there? Should be...
 
Ok so basically
Im confused why here prof says (4^k-1)/3 , no idea why he added the /3 .
 
9:26 PM
@Adrian I don't remember if that was the absolute last thing I posted, but it's the last thing of note I posted. So great! Avatars aren't showing up, though.
 
hmm, I'll take a look
 
@Dsafds Offhand I don't spot where it's coming from but it's been a long time since I've looked at such things and I'm tired. There's a site for math questions, and you're being reasonably specific about what you're asking: math.stackexchange.com/help/on-topic
@Dsafds If there's a relation which says for (N^(k-1) + ... + N + 1) = ((N^k - 1) / (N - 1)) then that's the answer, but I don't have such things memorized.
If the 3 comes from anywhere, it comes from that being a principle that holds, and it's (4 - 1)
@Dsafds You know anything about JavaScript and website programming? We have an online webassembly REPL now. (30x faster and half the download size if you have WASM threading enabled in your chrome://flags or wherever) hostilefork.com/media/shared/replpad-js
How's things coming @giuliolunati? Need any help with anything?
 
9:58 PM
@Adrian favicon.ico gone too, BTW
 
yup
 
@Adrian Maybe searching for favicon.ico would be a clue, more predictable name than whatever the avatars are
 
there's been a recent problem with avatars after upgrades, so I'm waiting for word on this
 
@Dsafds let e=f+C => f(k+1)+C = 4*[f(k)+C]+5 => f(k+1) = 4f(k)+3C+5; then let 3C+5 = 0 => C=-5/3 => f(k+1) = 4f(k) and f(0) = e(0)-C = 2+5/3 = 11/3 => f(k) = (11/3)(4^k) => e(k) = (11*4^k - 5)/3
 
@giuliolunati Resident mathematician :-) Have you heard of the Z3 Theorem Prover?
 
10:05 PM
@HostileFork Hi! Pretty busy with the Revelation book until tomorrow. In the spare time I'm working at that fallback thing for failing commits
 
@giuliolunati Good...the fallback on commits is probably the highest priority for the loader, but just generally having the system for hosting the loader. Like, I can edit things, I just have to know where to do the edits...right now I wouldn't know where.
 
@HostileFork Not heard until now... Interesting. Lisp syntax?
 
It's an open source C++ project, and it has a C++ API, but it packages with that. I bet we can do better!
Would be neat to have a Z3 extension and dialect to run in the browser interactively (!)
 
Glad to see interest for renc/web grow up so fast!
I wrote a working-but-ugly-coded js app for bible search... Should rewrite in ren/c ...
@HostileFork metaducation.github.io?
 
@giuliolunati We'll have something for everyone... :-)
Well I didn't mean where it's hosted, but more what url and dir, what the files are. We're still in a situation where load-r3.js and the worker is in the replpad repo.
So I'd like to get them out of there...
 
10:19 PM
@HostileFork I commited them in ren-c/make....
 
@giuliolunati If you're ready for them to be served from there and it works, great...but one problem is that unless we do some work I don't think it works to use from there...
And the worker.js file is an emscripten by-product we probably do not want to commit
Some make clean or otherwise process is deleting it and so it shows as if the worker.js has vanished.
Worker thread files don't want to run from domains they're not from. So there will be some figuring on what we might need to do to get around that--if we can get around it.
 
well, I can experiment in my own renc repository...
 
@giuliolunati Sure, well just the main thing is seeing what can be done...if we get to a point where the template page works and loads the systems and has the fallbacks, but the load-r3.js and worker.js are being loaded from Travis, I'm happy
The thing is, I know there are problems with that
So hoping someone can help by exploring and hammering on it :-)
But it's really the way to make it possible to get to the next step where people use the template to make their own scripts on jsfiddle/etc. without hosting a full site.
2 hours ago, by HostileFork
>> ‌did parse "meow🐈🐈🐈meow" [to "🐈" copy cats: some "🐈" to end]
‌== true

>> ‌cats
‌== "🐈🐈🐈"
@ingo ^-- a long time in the making, but, UTF-8 Everywhere may be coming soon..merged up and now running in my local ReplPad. Still some issues....
 

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