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12:20 AM
Anyone use something better than Console2 or ConsoleZ on Windows for shell?
Something is corrupted on this machine, but only seems to affect that software
 
12:51 AM
>> s: open serial://COM1/4800
SER_AT_RAW asked 2 on width=1
C Source File ../src/include/sys-series.h, Line 275
managed series was likely created during evaluator tick: 124065
 
@kealist , I use ConEmu - really nice for what it does.
 
@HostileFork I'm poking through trying to grok where that is happening, but it may take me some time. If you have any pointers
 
@kealist That happens when you try to access a byte-size series (binary! or a string! with no wide characters) asking for 2-byte entries, e.g UNI_AT
 
1:13 AM
@HostileFork So it seems likely that macro isn't enough to handle Windows/Linux differences completely
 
1:24 AM
Poking around to see what I can do
 
1:51 AM
@kealist Right. SER_AT(REBCHR, VAL_SERIES(arg), VAL_INDEX(arg))... if the arg is a string/file that doesn't have wide characters, or a binary and you're on windows... will be wrong.
@kealist I think it's in the best interest of the future if we just go ahead and consolidate serial into an extension, where the C code has #ifdefs based on the platform. That way you're not dealing with this fairly artificial separation where you have to take the Rebol values and abstractly convey them to the "device". It can just be the implementation of the port calling some natives
 
Hey @HostileFork long time!
 
This could be approximated if we allow the device code to use sys-core.h instead of host-lib.h, and pass it the REBVAL* directly, and forget this temporary buffer stuff.
@Dsafds Hello. Hope whatever you're doing these days goes well. We have a forum now, and a build farm, and there's probably other news here and there
 
Your the leader of rebol. Nice!
@HostileFork Oh wow
 
@Dsafds We divide responsibilities. Everyone is equal. Some are just more equal than others. :-)
 
Yeah ive been busy with school stuff 'n college you know. Im getting back at programming now though, since its summer
"More equal" xD
 
2:01 AM
Programming for fun or for a summer job?
 
Both. Im open though ;)
 
What is rebol? if you don't mind my asking
 
@Derek We're here to answer such questions. Rebol is a language with some heritage from languages like Forth or Lisp... as opposed to say, heritage from C. For JavaScripters, it's something Douglas Crockford used to use and cites as the inspiration for JSON as a reaction to XML. It's sort of the "anti-XML", while still being text based.
 
Wow, I love JSON, I'll give it a look see. Do you recommend anywhere to look at a bunch of code samples?
 
@Derek Rebol2 became fairly mature, and you can find a fair amount about it. Rebol in Ten Steps, Rebol Programming for the Absolute Beginner. It's fairly dated, but the next iteration of Rebol... Rebol 3... was left in quite an incomplete state by its author, and the design committee that was trying to guide it while it was closed source mostly disappeared after it was open sourced.
@Derek However, it is used in practice by Atronix Engineering, who is the primary corporate user/sponsor, and between them and the open source community we've been bringing Rebol 3 together.
 
2:10 AM
Latest commit 25033f8 on Mar 3, 2014 -> is there another repo for it that is more recently updated?
 
@HostileFork thank you
 
@Derek Another related language is Red, here's a pretty good explanation of the PARSE feature, which is Rebol's answer to RegEx
A very big point of Rebol is careful dependency control, trying to keep the size down...not just byte count, but being very aware of "essential complexity"... not letting it creep in, and try and reshape the space
 
This is interesting. cool name by the way, I suppose at any point a hostile fork can emerge within the open source community and cause a rift
 
@Derek I like it if people work together, but even within the scope of this relatively small community...I've realized just how hard that is. We're getting to where all the extant forks of Rebol are likely to converge, but partially just because people gave up and left... not because they decided to join up!
 
2:19 AM
And why do they give up and leave, if I may ask?
 
@Derek Some just because they'd been at it for a long time, over a decade even, and wanted to do something else with their life. Most of the community is older people who are sort of looking to bring software back into a mode that feels like the level of control you used to have, stopping software complexity pollution
So sticking to the "old ways" but making it viable in the Internet era, it's hard. Kind of an experiment, really.
 
Hmmm....interesting read. I think I was born in an era where I never worried about this
because as the article says, memory is cheap
 
However, I do see the issue especially in the node/javascript world. There's literally a package for everything
No matter if what you need to do is merely 11 lines of code, there's a package for it
 
@Derek It might interest you that my website is generated by a very small Rebol dialect I made. github.com/hostilefork/hostilefork.com/blob/master/entries/…
I haven't been doing a lot of evangelism lately, really our focus has been getting things solid enough in the plan so it doesn't change too much during Atronix's adoption of the common core.
We can likely demo some mind-blowing stuff, though RebolBot has been iffy lately.
@RebolBot alive?
@GrahamChiu @johnk ^-- no bot...
 
2:33 AM
And what happened to the creators of rebol?
where have they gone?
 
@Derek Carl works for Roku now. Rebol missed the boat by being closed source in a time when that was being phased out. He was convinced the open source process was part of the divergence and fragmentation problem, so rejected it on philosophical terms...wanting to keep shaping it how he wanted it. But that wasn't a viable way to make money, and eventually he needed to, so he open sourced Rebol and focused on his new job.
Some users who have been influential in the design have wandered off. Others are still around, doing the work you see here. Now and again a new person comes by.
 
I wish it had better structure, I'd totally love to use it. I'm a very visual person so things like { and } and ; help me when reading code
or maybe I just need to re-think the way I process information
 
@Derek You get to choose. It doesn't have keywords... everything is available to you, and context dependent. If you want to do something that looks like S-expressions you can, if you want to write it another way you can. I've said it's kind of like where Haskell is the SolidWorks of programming, Rebol approaches something like being a really well-made mechanical pencil. It's a totally different point of view.
 
SolidWorks looks dope
 
>> +: enfix function [a [any-value! <end>] b [any-value! <...>]] [
    if not set? 'a [
        sum: 0
        while [not void? value: take* b] [
            sum: add sum value
        ]
    ] else [
        add a (take b)
    ]
]

>> 1 + 2
== 3

>> (+ 1 2 3)
== 6
@Derek ^-- there you see assignment as a variadic "enfixed" function. It can look one unit to the left, and if it sees nothing, assume you want it to sum to the end... so it takes variadically. But if it sees something to the left, it will assume you want it to be binary
ELSE is a generic infix function itself...
It completes evaluation of its left hand side, and if that evaluation produces no value (a "void", which is what an if statement produces if it doesn't take the branch) then it will run the next clause.
@Derek Yup. Haskell is too. I <3 Hoogle
FUNCTION is, itself a function...that generates functions. RETURN is not built in, it's something that the FUNCTION construct introduces as a local variable that is itself a per-instance callable entity which, when called, exits the function.
>> parse (to-string read pollard.tech) [thru <title> copy x to </title> (print x) to end]
D. Pollard Tech
== true
>> parse (to-string read pollard.tech) [
    some [
        {<a href="} copy link to {"}
        thru {>}
        copy label to {</a>} (
            print [link "=>" label]
        )
    |
        skip
    ]
]
pollard.tech/login => Login
pollard.tech/register => Register
github.com/d-pollard => Github
stackoverflow.com/users/2020002/you => Stackoverflow
heroesplay.com => Heroes
weedzgame.com => Weedz
== true
@Derek ^-- So there's a bit more Rebol programming.
Should LOAD of a URL be sensitive to the content type, and if it says it's UTF-8 but doesn't have a specific Rebol content label (or end in .r), give you a string back? It seems that LOAD is supposed to be smart in this way, while READ is always bytes.
 
 
1 hour later…
4:15 AM
Trying to force Ren-C to talk to Twitter. Can you hear me?
 
 
2 hours later…
6:29 AM
@rgchris I see you got the twitter code working. It would be good to retake the #rebol tag so we should use it in each tweet
 
 
8 hours later…
2:28 PM
@HostileFork Not familiar with extensions at this point, or how a device might become one, but I'll try to look through the extensions in place and see how they work
 
 
2 hours later…
4:55 PM
@HostileFork how is the ren garden exe coming along?
 
5:42 PM
@GrahamChiu Almost working...
 
6:29 PM
@JacobGood1 Maybe I'll work on that today. Ideally I'd do it after the new build system (we're going to be able to build Rebol using r3 itself as the make tool, as well as generate makefiles). But I guess doing it before then will mean less churn and I can just focus on the code changes
 
7:03 PM
@kealist Extensions are in the early phase, but their heart is in the right place--so to speak. It's more about what code fits where, than the specific boilerplate you have to write. But we'll hopefully reshape the boilerplate. Don't try doing it yourself at this time
We've just found a way to let the DLLs call into the EXE and have access to the same API natives use...this was Ren-C's general objective, to factor the core in such a way to do that.
I think Red might call this something like the "internal API" where it can unbox values and has to fret over the GC concerns (which they someday might get) while they call libRed what we might, I guess, call libRebol just to be consistent...where you are writing higher level code that doesn't really have much more concerns than if it were written textually as Rebol source, you can just splice things in it from C as values.
 
 
3 hours later…
10:14 PM
posted on June 25, 2017 by @rgchris Chris

@rgchris wrote: With increased exposure of built in compression routines, it's now feasible to write fairly succinct functions that can ZIP/UNZIP (see also Does Ren-C have zip and unzip?). As always, rather than introduce new functions that would be complex in nature and PHPish in proliferation, I would see a ZIP scheme as the preferred way to interfac

 
 
1 hour later…
11:40 PM
@HostileFork awesome! Generating make files from rebol will be cool. Let me know if you need be to build something
 

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