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5:44 AM
So this pattern seems common, or something like it:
[field-name-1    field-name-2     field-name-3]
[value-1-1         value-1-2         value-1-3]
[value-2-1         value-2-2         value-2-3]
[value-3-1         value-3-2         value-3-3]
IIRC, it was @Brett (?) who had some scripts for this kind of thing being ported to R3.
What is kind of unpleasant about these in the build scripts is that the values are being accessed by index instead of field name. So it will be picking out of the rows with row/2 or row/3 instead of something more analogous to row/field-name-2 and row/field-name-3
It makes the code hard to read, and I'd think that tabular data like this could have some simple wrapper so that it was less opaque to use
 
Maybe it was the oddly named munge function? dobeash.com/munge.html
 
@johnk Could have been it...
Another issue of contention is whether the rows are in blocks. Having them not in blocks is a bit prettier. It might be something that's an option:
[field-name-1    field-name-2     field-name-3]
value-1-1         value-1-2         value-1-3
value-2-1         value-2-2         value-2-3
value-3-1         value-3-2         value-3-3
(All of this in a block, obviously)
 
Top tip - try not to hit the "i" key instead of the "u" when searching for oddly named rebol functions on your work computer
 
A word I did not know.
I still would like us to do the REBCNT => REBLEN replacement :-/
 
:-)
The bots are still not feeling well. A bit of a pain debugging, but I realised last night I can proxify r3 using proxychains. Then I can use something like burp to get a better view of what is happening
I suspect it is something trivial that is tripping it up
I've never used burp before so I hope it is quick to set up
 
5:58 AM
@johnk No rush, but definitely they are missed
 
bbl
 
6:25 AM
With return becoming "blessed" in the function spec dialect (we can work on making it so you can pick another word for SELF or RETURN through an override somehow) ... break/return becomes another one of those confusing combinations. What should replace it?
The options are another primitive FOO which is single arity and expands the list of ways to manipulate a loop to break, continue, foo. So it would be something that meant "break and return a value" in one word. I can't think of any offhand.
What bothers me about break/value and break/result is that value and result are rather common variable names.
break/with is better, I think.
 
7:10 AM
Hm. exclude doesn't modify its argument. It seems in Rebol-isms it would. foo: [a b c] exclude foo [a c] seems it should mutate foo to [b].
insert, append, etc. modify. Why wouldn't exclude require a copy?
Well, as I'm talking to myself, I'll answer the question. It has to do with the "family" it is in... where there is no clear "who is being operated upon" called out. intersect and union for instance do not call out one series in particular. So picking one of them to mutate is a bit uncomfortable...it's a symmetric operation.
It's a reasonable excuse, but if I want to remove items from something I think exclude foo [...] should do it, I shouldn't have to write foo: exclude foo [...]. If I don't want the modification I should say exclude copy foo [...]
If union were called unite it would seem more transitive.
If they were intersection, union, exclusion then not modifying would make sense.
Or even more clear intersection-of, union-of, exclusion-of
Bmm. But how do you make "difference" transitive. "differentiate" sounds like calculus.
One might not need a transitive form, and the whole thing might be solved by renaming "intersect" to "intersection" and making exclude mutate.
Then everything would make sense, more or less.
 
7:34 AM
posted on July 17, 2015 by fork

[Wish] I wanted to remove some items from a set, and realized I didn't know if EXCLUDE modified its argument or not. It sounds transitive, and transitive words like that tend to modify. Consider >> head insert [a b c] [d e f] == [d e f a b c] But exclude does not modify: >> foo: [a b c d e f] == [a b c d e f] >> exclude foo [b e f] == [a c d] >> foo == [a b c d e f] If the word

posted on July 17, 2015 by fork

[Wish] The unsettling nature of seeing RETURN in a function and having it not refer to returning from a function has been bothering me since I first saw it. Now, with definitionally-scoped returns, RETURN is becoming more special and I'm even more rattled by it. Not just BREAK/RETURN but also QUIT/RETURN. Which *is* it, are you quitting or returning? (Note on that one: happily...definitiona

 
7:55 AM
@HostileFork Yes, we talked about my rowsets script. I went a bit wild with my script trying different things out so it's probably too heavy for a build script and the data format could be simpler. Having a simple wrapper to work on a simple tabular data pattern would be good.
[one day I'll get the links right.. One day...]
 
@Brett [link description](http://your.link.here)
 
Yay.
 
I'm doing something dirt simple for now:
;
; Rebol needs to bootstrap using old versions prior to having definitionally
; scoped returns implemented.  Hence don't assume passing a body with
; RETURN in it will return from the caller.  It will just wind up being the
; return value of this function.
;
foreach-record-NO-RETURN: func [
	'record
	table [block!]
	body [block!]
	/local headings result
] [
	headings: first table
	unless [block? headings] [
		do make error! "Table of records does not start with a header block"
	]

	table: next table
Untested, but basically just making the build system use that format and enumerator.
So no row blocks. Looks nicer not to have them.
Hm, copy/part doesn't throw if there aren't enough items.
Okay, I'll switch that around then.
    foreach-record-NO-RETURN: func [
    	'record
    	table [block!]
    	body [block!]
    	/local headings result
    ] [
    	headings: first table
    	unless [block? headings] [
    		do make error! "Table of records does not start with a header block"
    	]

    	table: next table

    	result: while [not tail? table] [
    		if [(length? headings) > (length? table)] [
    			do make error! "Element count isn't even multiple of header count"
    	]

    		; 'SET [a b] [1 2]' will set a to 1 and b to 2
Eh, screw it. Tabs, u suk.
 
Is that to process the example data above?
I've probably fed it the wrong format.
 
2 hours ago, by HostileFork
[field-name-1    field-name-2     field-name-3]
value-1-1         value-1-2         value-1-3
value-2-1         value-2-2         value-2-3
value-3-1         value-3-2         value-3-3
Untested, as I said. But just giving the gist of how simple I'm going for.
 
8:05 AM
@HostileFork Ok.
 
@Brett You may feel more than free to test or improve. :-) It's going into the build script, so it should be a nice example. But yes, simple.
I'm actually working on some other bits then I'm going to have to hammer out all the changes so if you wanted to work on that it would be great.
Basically "what might a super-simple in-the-box thing like this look like that might be more useful, but not much more complicated". Tolerating the rows being blocks? Should that be the default and not having blocks be the "weird" case?
Comments on the parameters and refinements, etc.
 
@HostileFork I tend to overcomplicate though I try to resist the urge. I'll have a think. I'm sure other rebolers will meditate on it too.
 
 
1 hour later…
 
3 hours later…
1:08 PM
posted on July 17, 2015 by abolka

[Comment] Related discussion on GitHub's rebol/rebol issue tracker: https://github.com/rebol/rebol/issues/246

 
1:20 PM
posted on July 17, 2015 by abolka

[Comment] As a first approximation towards a solution, I'd suggest an "on-error" command-line flag. "--on-error=halt" would reproduce the current behaviour, "--on-error=quit" would result in a sane behaviour typical command-line script execution and non-interactive execution. Further, I'd suggest exposing that option also via system/options, so that its default can be also set via %user.r. Fina

 
1:59 PM
For future reference, here's the list of missing functions, when all obvious third party source files in src/core/ are removed: gist.github.com/earl/995636b0f625640a81bd
I'd like to see all such third party code move to external/ or src/thirdparty/, and have the corresponding src/core/u-*.c modules only contain Rebol-specific wrappers for the third-party code.
(And then also move the stuff in the unfortunately named src/codecs/ to src/thirdparty/.)
(And move to subsetting scripts, like HostileFork already did for zlib, where sensible.)
I'd currently slightly prefer to hold non-Git-submodule externals within the src/ hierarchy, hence the suggested src/thirdparty/.
Nice weekend, everyone!
 
@earl Same to you, and thanks!
 
2:26 PM
@HostileFork I just found a bug in ren-c, and here is the patch:
index d12c3fc..e3b2475 100644
--- a/src/core/c-error.c
+++ b/src/core/c-error.c
@@ -522,7 +522,7 @@ static REBOL_STATE Top_State; // Boot var: holds error state during boot
**
***********************************************************************/
{
- Trap_Range(arg);
+ Trap1(RE_OUT_OF_RANGE, arg);
}
 
@ShixinZeng Thanks, I'll look around to see if there's more like that and get it in. (Though don't hesitate to send PRs for things if you wish...)
 
I haven't forked ren-c on github yet, so I just sent this quick patch here
 
With this fix, test can run with only 1 crash
or it goes to a busy loop
as Trap_Range calls itself unconditionally
 
@ShixinZeng Hmm, I'll have to look at it, I haven't checked up on the tests lately! I know you fixed some similar things, but I did increase the "crashiness" on invalid situations...also I don't zero memory allocations so it catches more stuff.
But nice to know it's not doing too badly
Anyway, I'll be taking out the zeroing of memory and stuff in a bit, but wanted to do some other integrations first...
About to commit a redo of the make make system so it can actually be read/modified a bit easier...
 
2:39 PM
Funny that I can't fork metaeducation/ren-c to my repositories on github
 
@ShixinZeng Yes, they don't let you have more than one fork of the same root repo.
You'd have to pull something like ren-c's master branch to name it the ren-c branch on zsx/r3
 
OK, I will do it
 
 
3 hours later…
5:40 PM
All right builders (@ingo, @iceflow19, @rgchris, @draegtun, @ShixinZeng, anyone else I forgot has built...) who wants to try out some magic...? Some magic that now has makefile in the .gitignore? :-) Try a pull and reset or a new clone, have your r3-make.exe or r3-make in the make directory, and then simply try makefile -f makefile.boot
And let me know how it goes...
Since I gave it a sweep over, the build system is now more readable. So hopefully some of you Rebol hackers can go in and make it even clearer better. (One doesn't even need to know any C to do that, @rebolek... see %src/tools/*.r)
@Brett Here's what I wound up with in the table routines: github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/commit/…
 
@HostileFork Did I miss anything?
zsx@touchsmart-arch:~/work/r3.git/make$ make -f makefile.boot make OS_ID=0.4.4
./r3-make -qs ../src/tools/make-make.r
Option set for building: 0.4.40 linux-x64
Created: ../../make/makefile
it always creates a makefile for linux-x64
 
@ShixinZeng Yes, you overspecified and it gave you what you asked for. I said make -f makefile.boot.
 
@HostileFork I want to compile for linux-x86
 
@ShixinZeng Oh. Hmmm. It should have used your OS_ID. Okay, let me look at that.
 
@HostileFork OS_ID is not passed to make-make.r
 
5:53 PM
@ShixinZeng Yes, I thought it was passing a hardcoded OS_ID and wanted it to detect, I didn't realize that's how the arg was being passed as well if it was overridden. (Not really a make person)
So I want a blank OS_ID that is overridden if you pass it, vs what I thought was a hardcoded one.
 
index 2eaa03f..4c87099 100644
--- a/make/makefile.boot
+++ b/make/makefile.boot
@@ -90,7 +90,7 @@ all: $(REBOL_TOOL)$(BIN_SUFFIX)
$(MAKE) all

make: $(REBOL_TOOL)$(BIN_SUFFIX)
- $(REBOL) $T/make-make.r
+ $(REBOL) $T/make-make.r $(OS_ID)

$(REBOL_TOOL)$(BIN_SUFFIX):
@echo
This seems to be enough
 
@ShixinZeng Almost, one more addition back to the boilerplate in make-make.r - I'd like the generated makefile to be able to make make as well as the bootstrapping file. But thanks for trying something I didn't try but should have. :-) It's experimental still at this point, more process once it's used for something serious.
Getting the makefile-that-you-can't-add-to-your-gitignore out is overdue. Always having to stash it or something. Very annoying.
And auto-detection based on the r3-make's version numbers is a much easier default for most people.
Funny, the code to do auto-detection was in there as a concept. But you didn't get it happening ever, because of the way things were done with the makefiles.
 
diff --git a/make/makefile.boot b/make/makefile.boot
index 2eaa03f..af5e510 100644
--- a/make/makefile.boot
+++ b/make/makefile.boot
@@ -80,17 +80,17 @@ REBOL= $(CD)$(REBOL_TOOL) -qs

### Build targets:
top: $(REBOL_TOOL)$(BIN_SUFFIX)
- $(MAKE) -f makefile.boot make
+ $(MAKE) -f makefile.boot make OS_ID=$(OS_ID)
$(MAKE) prep
$(MAKE) clean
$(MAKE) r3

all: $(REBOL_TOOL)$(BIN_SUFFIX)
- $(MAKE) -f makefile.boot make
+ $(MAKE) -f makefile.boot make OS_ID=$(OS_ID)
$(MAKE) all
With this change, I was able to do:
make -f makefile.boot OS_ID=0.4.4
 
6:10 PM
@ShixinZeng Great, thanks... updated... (missed those first two because they weren't calls to make-make)
 
@HostileFork your last commit was broken
+ $(MAKE) -f makefile.boot make OS_ID=$(OS_ID)
not
+ $(MAKE) -f makefile.boot make $(OS_ID)
zsx@touchsmart-arch:~/work/r3.git/make$ make -f makefile.boot OS_ID=0.4.4
make -f makefile.boot make 0.4.4
make[1]: Entering directory '/home/zsx/stuffs/work/r3.git/make'
./r3-make -qs ../src/tools/make-make.r 0.4.4
"0.4.4"
Option set for building: 0.4.4 linux-x86
Created: ../../make/makefile

*** The %makefile.boot bootstrapping makefile only handles 'make',
*** 'make make', or 'make make OS_ID=##.##.##' (where the #
*** values come from system identification numbers in the
*** %src/tools/systems.r file). Please use one of those commands
gotta go
 
@ShixinZeng Sorry, been up a long time writing all this, kind of wanted to go to sleep but wanted to leave some things for people to try out. :-) Thanks for checking it. Hope you don't mind doing git fetch and git reset --hard origin/master, wanted to tidy all that up into one commit
 
@HostileFork I should probably go sleep. you still didn't get it right. :)
 
@ShixinZeng You're too fast, fixed
 
you missed "make" before OS_ID
 
6:20 PM
It's good that you're fast :-)
Me after being up since yesterday writing all this... no longer fast github.com/metaeducation/ren-c/commit/…
And the tables and all that. Yawn. Sleep time. Thanks again, hopefully it will work as intended henceforth.
 
Did you push?
I don't see any fix about the missing make
 
Did you git fetch and git reset --hard origin/master ?
 
Yes
 
Hm, it's not there.
@ShixinZeng Okay it didn't go up, dunno. Now it's there.
 
Yep, now it works and time to sleep!!
 
6:27 PM
@ShixinZeng Tx again!
 
7:26 PM
@HostileFork Good Night, successfully built and running on Linux 32 Bit and Raspberrypi. CU next week. (No chance to test on the 64 bit machine atm)
 
 
4 hours later…
11:26 PM
I've tweaked some of the content from Coherence 1.5's writeup into a new README.md to replace the "Coming Soon..." that was there before. PRs for edits welcome. github.com/metaeducation/ren-c
I'd like a README.md in each directory explaining at least briefly what that directory is for.
 

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