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12:06 AM
@HostileFork I like the name coherence-one, but there is an Oracle product called coherence which may be confusing for some
 
1:00 AM
I had a lil run in with Kaj once, I ended up gettin all highfalutin with em
 
1:14 AM
It was hot air, just me being defensive
 
 
1 hour later…
2:30 AM
@kealist He's effective at what he does.
I don't like him, but I won't challenge his competence.
He's basically said the same about me.
People are different, and that's o.k.
I wouldn't be him, he wouldn't be me, case closed.
For the record I did try to smooth things over with him at one point. I actively tried.
I should look up that chat log.
And for a little while it seemed we had gotten things okay.
But having gone through the effort of trying, and such, only made me more mad later.
It's like "why did I try?"
I actually made a Syllable OS installation before we ever had the fights
How many people can say they've installed Syllable? Not so many eh
@JacobGood1 And Kaj's attitude in that post is kind of what I'm talking about, this strong desire to bite-the-user-hand-that-feeds
The people who give you their time are important people.
 
I would rather that post be gone honestly
I did not like my attitude in it
he was being inflammatory but I could have just blown it off, smeh, oh well
 
2:46 AM
@JacobGood1 Eh, well, I feel that way about my responses to things too... but history is history. Let it be.
As per non-code golf, play the ball where it lands.
 
@johnk "A strange game. The only winning move is not to play." -- Joshua, Wargames
 
(I better close that quotes page before I get carried away)
 
@HostileFork I gave up on my attempt to install syllable (and aros). Hardware support is a killer for smaller OS's
 
2:50 AM
@johnk It didn't get very far for me, either.
Kaj was more defensive than he was helpful in my process.
 
I like the idea of a simpler OS, but you can spend all your time installing the thing and not using it. I remember wasting a few weeks on getting netbsd running on an old windows CE device. Very satisfying, but running X with 24MB ram was not particularly useful
The 640x240 screen res was a bit tight as well :-)
 
@johnk Haiku is pretty nice but I think all these things are timing problems. Like "oh, 1997 called, they want their OS back".
So the danger with Rebol/Red is figuring out how to spin that, to the point where you say "1997 called. They want their language back. We told them to go to hell."
 
Yes, I tried beos when it was first ported to x86, but I never tried haiku. I wonder how it is going?\
 
Not so good lately, I think Rebol/Red has more dev cycles
 
@HostileFork Are they at least still making some LEGO pieces that match ones I played with in ... er ... before 1997?
 
2:57 AM
Which if you're an OS, and we're working harder, your OS is probably not going anywhere
@MarkI Batman(TM) legos use nanotech to refuse to stick to any non-franchise LEGO, even if the bumps are shaped the same.
 
@HostileFork Are you taking shots at yourself now @HostileFork?
@HostileFork I meant the original company, not knock-offs ...
 
@MarkI Most worthy target I can think of, I'm wasting bullets on anyone else.
 
I am likening Rebol to a LEGO "basic brick" which I used to call a 2-by-4 for some reason.
Who cares if the design is decades old, it still works, those pieces are still needed.
 
@MarkI There is a whole terminology in lego, which I found out about.
 
3:01 AM
@MarkI Have you seen the new LEGO rips off Minecraft game? It's rather slick.
 
So they can beg for their language "back" but it's too late, it's gone viral :)
 
(Again remembering that Minecraft ripped off Infiniminer, which was made by the SpaceChem guy, who I think is a genius.)
 
@HostileFork Missed that. I'm still gagging after accidentally seeing the commercial for "Lego Jurassic World The Video Game".
Talk about mind-numbingly over-channelled.
 
@MarkI Well, forget those other LEGO games, and look this one up.
I never was very impressed by the LEGO franchise games, LEGO Star-Wars etc, looked like junk to me.
This is different.
I think this whole idea of going back to basics is kind of a religious thing. Was reading up on Leonard Cohen deciding to go be in a monastery for a couple of years. Because... he's deep, and he wrote deep songs, and he was getting older and having to confront mortality. All that.
 
@HostileFork Sorry, but different how? I can't even tell if it's a toy or a game.
 
3:05 AM
@MarkI Well it's about building.
A game where the things just look like LEGO isn't about building. It's a facade.
 
@HostileFork If it's a toy then you can really build things with it, if it's a game then you can virtually build things with it.
Sounds like you are meaning the latter? And are unimpressed?
LEGO Star Wars cracks me up. It's hilarious. The TV show, I mean, of course. It's almost halfway to the Robot Chicken version.
 
@MarkI The breakfast cereal is okay. I can take it or leave it.
 
@HostileFork I think I spotted a joke, there, so you must be doing it on purpose, since I am lousy at that.
@HostileFork Isn't everything you build with LEGO a facade?
 
@MarkI Always read the... Source Code
 
3:25 AM
 
3:37 AM
FWIW, here's my succinctest reasoning for why it is the tags, not the words, that require the escaping when the two collide:
(1) It is desirable that all [3 < 4 5 > 4] be true, not 4.
5
(2) Therefore tags that begin with space will need to be escaped to be read as tags.
(3) Q.E.D.
 
@MarkI Bravo. Well said.
 
 
4 hours later…
7:44 AM
@rebolek Your bugfixed Rebol is coming soon.
With PRIN and REMOLD and all the hits.
 
@HostileFork Hi! So no "Crash. should not happen" in Lest?
 
@rebolek I didn't fix the parse bug, but the debug build points out where it is.
It can be fixed in a day, but that's a separate issue.
The more general thing is having it know when it's doing something wrong, and pointing to where the wrongdoing is.
 
I see. So PARSE is still buggy?
 
@rebolek This fixes systemic bugs. And here and there I fixed any bug that crashed the tests or led the tests to leak or corrupt memory. I might go ahead and fix that bug, it won't be hard, but it's going to be incredibly hard as it is for @earl and @ShixinZeng (and hopefully @MarkI will read, too) to go over what I've done so far. I don't want to make it any harder than it's going to be.
And @earl said he might tackle that bug anyway. Anyone could.
Finding it was harder than fixing it will be.
Anyway, as I said, the release has been set back by remembering that a lot of people run Rebol on Windows.
I tend to forget that.
                 from ../src/os/host-main.c:50:
c:/Qt/Tools/mingw491_32/i686-w64-mingw32/include/winnt.h:2335:0: note: this is t
he location of the previous definition
 #define DELETE (__MSABI_LONG(0x00010000))
 ^
cc1.exe: all warnings being treated as errors
make[1]: *** [objs/host-main.o] Error 1
make[1]: Leaving directory `/p/rebolsource/make'
Seriously? Windows defined DELETE?
Thanks, Windows.
Next, define "len" and "ptr".
@MarkI Hopefully you're not forgetting my backslash as unset in your list. all [3 < 4 \ 5 > 4]
Hm, does all skip unsets?
>> all [1 #[unset!] 2]
 
8:13 AM
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
== 2
 
Yup.
@Freezerburn Any luck on the Ren Garden build?
 
8:34 AM
@rebolek Where do I get the version of Rebol that will play this?
 
@WiseGenius Doesn't work in Rebol2/View?
 
@HostileFork Even though it says “for REBOL3/R3GUI” and the files end in .r3, I tried your suggestion. No. ;(
 
@WiseGenius There are two Rebol 3 GUI variants. R3-GUI and... er, some other one
red> print "Did @johnk wake me up?"
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
Did @johnk wake me up?
 
redbot has risen from the dead. (If that's not a good reason to start a religion, I don't know what is.)
 
9:06 AM
@HostileFork The source has its own version of r3-gui.r3.
The only r3-gui.r3 I've ever been able to get to work is Saphirion's version with his old build of Rebol which still uses funct.
I replaced r3-gui.r3 with Saphirion's one just now, and got it working with that old version of Rebol... sort of. Well, it crashes if I kill all the cows, but at least it does something now.
Was just curious to see what this 1000 cows thing was all the cool kids were talking about.
 
@WiseGenius Not sure ;) I will update it for latest version.
The code was written during early alpha days of R3 (2010 or so) so it needs some update, I guess.
 
9:37 AM
Red 0.5.4 on Hackernews: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9714679
I have a love/hate relationship with a lot of things. I hate hackernews, but what I hate about it is the influence it has. I suppose I'm selective in my hatred, but as people have noticed, I am constantly railing against StackOverflow too--even acknowledging the good work being done. I dislike central authority.
"Hi, I have no real talent and made a terrible website. It now has profound influence because of an orange Y. Can't be bothered to do anything about it. I am Paul Graham, and I am your God. If you're lucky, I'll tell someone you're cool and you'll get funding. Grovel now."
Paul Graham's not actually that bad, I do like some of his writeups.
But we need to push against things like hackernews or wherever becoming locus points, vs. embracing it. It's just a bad idea.
All that said... it is indeed a bit odd... where are the 'haters'?
You'd think they'd be on there saying something nasty about Red.
I'm a bit surprised.
I read a lot of YouTube comments (not sure why) and I don't recall haters ever taking a vacation. They're pretty much on 24/7.
 
10:09 AM
@HostileFork No, I'm still blocked on the rebol build. Once I get past that I'll try to build garden again
 
@HostileFork - well, some of us were quite surprised, that Red did not get bashed so much now, although Gregg was mediating a bit. But here or there some negative comment appeared - how ugly our code is, using square brackets :-)
 
@pekr Well it is a good sign that people are picking up on it. I'm not out to see the project fail, I want it to succeed.
I did draw the icons, after all.
 
Agreed.
 
10:24 AM
@pekr People who don't know enough to criticize will give useless criticism.
Real criticism requires understanding.
 
Most criticism is - why another language, when we have Python, Ruby, PHP etc., or ... why Rebol inspired by Lisp, if you have real Lisp? :-)
 
@pekr Which means you need a good answer.
red> print {a pretty icon helps, too :-P}
 
; Brought to you by: try.rebol.nl
a pretty icon helps, too :-P
 
I worked effing hard on that stuff. You'd think I'd be treated better.
Money can't buy that. That's timeless.
Same.
And I signed it all over to (c) Nenad Rakocevic. So he better not let me down.
Red must succeed. If he screws it up, future AI will have to get out their correcting pen and fix it, at this point.
@pekr If there's going to be a fix to the fight, Red must start by hosting the "What is Red" video. I don't see why this would be a problem.
So if you're wanting to mediate, start there.
I will not be at the discussion table until that video is back online.
Period.
 
10:50 AM
The problem is the free time. Also - Doc is making some steps to the new website transition. He does not like blogger as a long term website platform for Red ...
I never used blogger for any of my websites, but I remember even you had some gripes with it ....
 
@pekr Yes, but @rgchris made a whole web solution for him... not like he gave much of a care. He doesn't ever care when people are trying to help.
Because of his ego issues. And I'm a better programmer than he is. Sorry, world. It's true. (And I'm not the world's best programmer - by any stretch of the imagination.)
Even in this chat room, with membership in low double digits, @earl kicks my ass quite often.
A constant reminder. be humble
be thankful for those who contribute to your dreams
@earl is enigmatic, weird icon. He's Austrian, I always imagined him as the "we can fix it" Austrian guy from Terminator... (he says not close).
"Cyberdyne? That's ancient history!"
 
I think that you very often misinterpret Doc kimbel. He can be open-minded. It is just about timing. New website was not a priority for quite some time, it will become a priority shortly (in few months imo).
 
@pekr I like him. I'll go on record with that.
I will go on record as not liking Kaj or Peter Wood.
Is the record recording? :-)
I don't think I misinterpret Doc.
People have suggested to me, that if you've never met someone in person, and you only know them as "Internet People" that your judgment may be different.
You make allowances for people you've met and bonded a bit with, while otherwise it's just random-internet-ass.
Fair enough, I guess.
We are confronted informationally with a lot of people who say whatever, whenever, on the Internet.
Because I'm > 10k points, I see a different chat than you do here... all the chat flags pop up.
So I have to decide if it's a valid complaint or not.
I generally say invalid/not-sure because I don't like censorship, but sometimes people do kind of cross a line I guess.
And it's weird, like people thinking my Twitter on Brendan Eich was crossing some line.
Why is it me who crossed the line, not him?
What is this "line" anyway?
My dog as a puppy, I guess I never thought of it, but his pigmentation in the feet was like the cat... only some pads black, others pink...
Same thing on the cat:
Get your story straight, guys. Pink or black?
Hum, I should photoshop out the green reflection in the eyes on that photo.
She is so weird.
 
11:56 AM
I estimate two days until coherence-one.
 
12:47 PM
gitter.im/red/red?at=557d9505f1cd32e97eca4fe3 interesting announcement about a Rebol inspired language over on the Red gitter page github.com/gokr/ni
 
1:41 PM
The kit pads (including the black pigmentation), would make for a nice logo, converted to drawing :-)
 
@HostileFork, I received an email from notifications@github.com, seems to be telling me of a comment you added to my repo?
I have a couple questions about it, I am assuming here is the appropriate venue to ask them :)
First, will I receive emails for any note that anybody adds or did you flag it specially for that?
Second, thank you very much, you have pointed out a flaw in my submission, namely, the message text is too long.
Thirdly, was the quoted part in your note supposed to refer to one of the 21 fixes, or one of the >21 diffs, in particular?
Penultimately, I am in particular not sure what battle your phrase "this battle" in that quote refers to.
Lastly, are you trying to describe a better method of attaching the "submission comment"?
Looks like the -m flag on git-commit is just supposed to be a one-line thingy, more of a title than anything really helpful.
So where does the helpful stuff go?
 
 
3 hours later…
5:15 PM
@MarkI Er, I did? I don't remember doing that. Note that I don't lock my keyboard, so the cat might post things when I'm not looking.
I do however remember posting the animal pictures, which are cute, and a nice thing to get up and see.
I think maybe a good reminder to not be so serious all the time.
@pekr I haven't named her, but I noticed that when I'm mad I call her "CAT!" and when I'm feeling not-mad I call her "kit kit".
HEY, CAT! STOP RIPPING THAT UP!
Aw, kit kit, you want a belly rub?
There's not a lot of point in naming something that won't come when you call it.
I got accused of being a poor cat owner, and that I needed to get her some toys, because all the pictures are framed up to suggest she has a dull life and I don't do anything for her.
Not... true.
Don't ask why she liked messing with that plastic air thing, she just likes it. Go figure.
 
Cat's are unpredictable, not manageable like dogs. I grew up with dogs, but I also like cats. There is one Czech FB group, being called - I live along my cat, because he/she is the point of the universe, and you, poor human are there to serve :-)
OK, time to move home from work ...
 
@pekr I favor dogs.
But this cat is ok.
Very attractive cat, in any case.
Decorative.
As inherited cats go, one could do worse.
 
@pekr I've heard it said this way: dogs have masters, cats have ... staff.
 
The carpet... needs replacing.
 
@HostileFork Well, I guess that answers that question! Your line-note got emailed to me.
You do remember annotating a line, right?
 
5:30 PM
@MarkI Maybe :-) I think I might have, to demo line annotations to you
I said I didn't remember doing it, not that I didn't do it.
Sort of coming back to me now
I'm still a bit groggy, up late... cat knows the feeling...
I should file up her photo collection and send it to cuteoverload
 
@HostileFork You've got some truly classic poses there HF. That last one is my fave.
 
That's still my fave
 
Also great, hadn't seen that one yet!
So, can you elaborate on what you see as the benefits of line annotations, please @HostileFork?
I am asking from the context of "I goofed with the commit message, how do I do better?"
 
@MarkI Discussion about a commit, prior to getting it taken, where you're having the talking point on the lines in question.
 
@HostileFork Ah, I see, thanks.
I still don't know what to do with the parts I apparently have to leave out of the commit message though.
 
5:38 PM
@MarkI You can edit pretty much anything; you can even git push --force or somesuch and rewrite history (screwing over anyone who pulled, but git uses crypto hash so they'll be aware of the failure)
 
@HostileFork I understand I can redo, but that won't help if the only way to describe the submission is in the commit message ...
Here's the title: "I did some things"
Here's the body: "I did X and Y and Z and XX and ZQ and ..."
I am assuming the title goes with the -m flag in the commit.
Where does the "body" go?
 
@MarkI Well some data lives in the repo and some lives in GitHub only.
 
With you so far ...
 
A pull request can override the data in the repo.
e.g. your commit text can be "I DID X" but you can edit on github the pull request title to be "I DID Y" and add a whole bunch of message to that.
 
I am not ready to issue pull requests yet, let alone pull them ...
@HostileFork OK but I want my comments to be attached to my commit, is -m the only way?
 
5:43 PM
@MarkI That's all git stores, it can be multi-line. There are standards and conventions you can go read about from large scale projects like Android of how they do them.
Try and keep line one short... basically.
 
Well, at least next time I'll begin it with a better first line. Thanks for the help HF.
 
GitHub kind of notoriously does not scale.
We don't have to worry about it, because... we don't have tens of thousands of developers.
 
I'll see if I can find out how the big boys do it.
 
@MarkI Don't worry too much over it, just realize that GitHub isn't the only tool in the universe, even if you pretend Git is the only DVCS in the universe...
 
@HostileFork Maybe not, but it's the only one hosting open-source Rebol 3 ATM ...
According to Erlang's standards, all I did wrong was forget a (short!) title line and its following blank line.
I may actually try to fix that, mostly for fun.
 
5:55 PM
@MarkI Doing is learning. Learning is doing.
 
Hm. Will I be screwing anybody over if I redo the commit?
Not that it is likely that anyone has cloned it or otherwise linked to it, but can I know?
 
@MarkI Interesting note on that pic, I got her from behind the chair on that. She was asleep. It came off really good considering.
@MarkI Nope, I'm sure no one's pulled it
 
6:07 PM
@HostileFork I mean is that info is held in the (my) repo somewhere, as forward links (I'm guessing) ...
@HostileFork Good think I enjoy learning, I am discovering every day how much more I have to do :)
2
 
@MarkI One of the benefits of being old, also, is you always have something new to learn. Even things you learned already. Every day is a gift.
 
@HostileFork Yesterday is history. Tomorrow is a mystery. Today is a gift, which is why it is called the present.
 
 
3 hours later…
8:55 PM
I don't know why, but everyone seems to be blaming me lately. For pretty near everything. ;-/
@HostileFork Damn. Even here! 8^/
 
 
1 hour later…
10:12 PM
@gnat I'm not blaming you. And by the way, great job!
 

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